whitey1980 Posted April 14, 2014 Share Posted April 14, 2014 (edited) Its far too easy to dismiss elements of Liverpools support as 'idiot kids', 'scallies' or any other label you may choose to give. There have been many incidents (a large number that dont even make it to press) associated with Liverpool, that the wider club refuse to take responsibility for. We as a club are responsible for all the different strands of our support, and yes, our supporters who bricked Crawleys coach are 'scum'. I don't think anybody doubts the events of Hillsborough, but people do resent being told to feel inherently sympathetic towards Liverpool football club. Given the current climate, given the hearings, it can be argued that the weekends actions by the FA were justified. I just hope that when the dust has settled, and the 'truth' (as much as that can be established 25 years on) is laid down for all to see, then we can all move on and the families can finally grieve out of the national media gaze. Edited April 14, 2014 by whitey1980 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rudemedic Posted April 14, 2014 Share Posted April 14, 2014 City fans respected the minutes silence and this is how the Liverpool fans returned the gesture http://www.manchestereveningnews.co.uk/news/greater-manchester-news/manchester-city-fans-bus-attacked-6984349 Once again, not the first time the scum have been at it this season. I know its a minority, but i really struggle to feel any sympathy towards that football club and its fans. Its a shame, as the football they play is fantastic and they deserve to win the league, but they are the last team I want to win it aswell. This article about the same incident http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/football/competitions/premier-league/10764428/Manchester-City-fans-shocked-and-shaken-after-alleged-attack-by-Liverpool-supporters.html suggests that the City minibus was heading towards the Kop end. Why was an away bus heading towards the home end? When the away end, and the popular away pubs are in the other direction. I know that there could be some journalistic licence going on here and the MEN may also be ignoring that detail, but the Telegraph could easily have written it the way the MEN wrote it but chose not to. Yes the locals shouldn't have thrown stones, but I wonder how blameless the City fans and the driver on the minibus actually are. As for tarnishing the whole of Liverpool's support for the actions of a minority, some of whom don't go to the actual games for whatever reason (mainly financial). Let's see how that works for us, Oh right that makes all of us brick-throwing, coach-smashing (Crawley and Coventry), racist (the Oldham race riots) scruff-bags (some of our fans dress scruffy, and I'm a culprit myself, especially for away games, but football isn't a fashion show). The interactions I've had with Liverpool fans, mainly via social media and most of those were via Rosa, have in the main been positive, and that positivity has been a two-way street mainly because some of the same Liverpool fans almost love us and see us as their second team. That is a rarity, in itself, because social media is a haven for idiots, so forgive me if I don't think the Liverpool fans are actually the way you want to portray them. When we have played them in the last few years, we have had racist taunting at Tom Adeyami, a scruffy awful away following at our place, and someone being stabbed at the fixture this year. Apologies if I dont take them as my 2nd club. Add this onto them bricking Hull/West Hams coaches and now Citys this season, and the minority might not be as small as it seems. And at no point did I say I hate them, although as many people 'hate' United/City/Leeds/Rochdale, I happen to have 'hate' for Liverpool, alongside Bradford Huddersfield and Blackpool, due to rivalry over the years I've been an OAFC fan. Hillsborough was a tragedy, I fully agree that their fans should chase justice, but I personally wasnt alive during the time and I have never met anyone personally involved in the tragedy. Are we going to have a minutes silence for the Bradford fire, Heysel, Ibrox, Munich air disaster? As a side note, didnt LMAO die with MSN Messenger. Dont forget to update how you're feeling with lots of smilies later. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jsslatic Posted April 14, 2014 Share Posted April 14, 2014 As for tarnishing the whole of Liverpool's support for the actions of a minority, some of whom don't go to the actual games for whatever reason (mainly financial). Let's see how that works for us, Oh right that makes all of us brick-throwing, coach-smashing (Crawley and Coventry), racist (the Oldham race riots) scruff-bags (some of our fans dress scruffy, and I'm a culprit myself, especially for away games, but football isn't a fashion show). I don't know about that - we were told on our trip to Dagenham three years ago that we must be from Oldham as we were dressed too nicely to be from Dagenham. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rudemedic Posted April 14, 2014 Share Posted April 14, 2014 I don't know about that - we were told on our trip to Dagenham three years ago that we must be from Oldham as we were dressed too nicely to be from Dagenham. Think that might say more about Dagenham than Oldham. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jsslatic Posted April 14, 2014 Share Posted April 14, 2014 Don't do us down - we are the sapeurs of the third division. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
leeslover Posted April 14, 2014 Share Posted April 14, 2014 I don't know about that - we were told on our trip to Dagenham three years ago that we must be from Oldham as we were dressed too nicely to be from Dagenham. It could have been different if Dave and Mark had been first through the door instead of Ben and Pete Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pukka Posted April 14, 2014 Share Posted April 14, 2014 Scum fans, ban them all.. in fact shoot anyone who supports that club: http://www.thefootballforum.net/index.php?/topic/218638-crawley-coach-attacked/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pine Villains Posted April 14, 2014 Share Posted April 14, 2014 perhaps we should have a football memorial day in the season then nobody gets preferential treatment Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
youngen Posted April 14, 2014 Share Posted April 14, 2014 What strange and bizarre "but"... As if that matters... I felt involved and I wasn't there that day... We where all herded into those death traps back in the day. It could of been us.... To think we aren't involved or connected to Hillsborough is frankly laughable... Similarly with Bradford... It could just as easily been Oldham fans being denied justice by the authorities.... It was an evil subjected to the whole of the football family back in the 80s. Its never just been Liverpools disaster, Liverpools injustice. Its always been bigger. It was injustice unloaded upon every football fan. We was viewed as subhuman and treated as such. I wasnt born, nor did I attend fixtures in those days. It is a selfish view. The same way liverpool fans expect every other football league club feel sorry for them. My opinion of Liverpool as a club isnt high, apologies if that offends the masses of Liverpool lovers on this board. I would respect a minutes silence for the dead, but that doesnt mean I have to care or agree with it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave_Og Posted April 14, 2014 Share Posted April 14, 2014 The burden to keep people safe on a match day falls upon the various authorities and emergency services and not the fans. Its a massive coup out to blame the fans in any of these disasters in my opinion. Fans have no obligation in that regard at all? Really? (and that is not a comment on Hillsborough before anyone misinterprets it) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oafc0000 Posted April 14, 2014 Share Posted April 14, 2014 (edited) Fans have no obligation in that regard at all? Really? (and that is not a comment on Hillsborough before anyone misinterprets it) It would be stupid to say fans have no obligations whatsoever... But the burden of the health and safety of all the spectators has to be one that is shouldered by the authorities and the people putting an event on. If the result of a section of fans rioting is the almost certain death of thirty nine people then the stadium and match day planning has obviously been found wanting. Lets remember those fans where not killed at the hands of the Liverpool fans. They where killed by the poorly designed stadium which didn't allow a large number of fans to quickly exit the stadium. Those fans got no protection either from the security services. They where crushed to death and not beaten to death. That is the reality. I can't think of a single Football Stadium disaster where the fans should shoulder the blame. Is Bradford the fault of the guy who was smoking in the wooden stand ? Or the fact rubbish had been allowed to build up under the stands ? Edited April 14, 2014 by oafc0000 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave_Og Posted April 14, 2014 Share Posted April 14, 2014 I can't think of a single Football Stadium disaster where the fans should shoulder the blame. I din't say all of it but re Heysel the root cause was not the stadium condition Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oafc0000 Posted April 14, 2014 Share Posted April 14, 2014 (edited) I din't say all of it but re Heysel the root cause was not the stadium condition I respectfully disagree... It was the stadium condition and a number of other factors... The last of those factors is misbehaving fans... Edited April 14, 2014 by oafc0000 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave_Og Posted April 14, 2014 Share Posted April 14, 2014 I respectfully disagree... It was the stadium condition and a number of other factors... The last of those factors is misbehaving fans... I'm not up for a debate on the subject so likewise. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MAC0AFC Posted April 14, 2014 Share Posted April 14, 2014 They had a banner saying 'YNWA 96' and the club had a message of support in the programme as well. You'd like to think you could take it for granted that the minute's silence would be observed but once again it proved too much to ask for a section of the Chelsea support again yesterday. the section of the Chelsea support that were singing were still in the bar below the stand.. so although it's bad timing, no harm was meant Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
youngen Posted April 14, 2014 Share Posted April 14, 2014 Sorry guys, a minutes silence please to remember the day the sank 102 years ago. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Magic Mikey Posted April 14, 2014 Share Posted April 14, 2014 You're the one who wanted to be left out of any commemoration of a disaster. I was telling you an easy way that you could have been if we had actually had a game last weekend. One that you could actually get some benefit from if you see it that way. The irony of your comment about taking the maximum amount of drinking time obviously escapes you. If the Liverpool fans had all got themselves into the ground in good time the tragedy would never have happened. BTW I don't drink and I am quite capable of entertaining myself for 7 minutes, I merely resent having this imposed on the football following community. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deyres42 Posted April 14, 2014 Share Posted April 14, 2014 The irony of your comment about taking the maximum amount of drinking time obviously escapes you. If the Liverpool fans had all got themselves into the ground in good time the tragedy would never have happened. BTW I don't drink and I am quite capable of entertaining myself for 7 minutes, I merely resent having this imposed on the football following community. Bernard Ingham II here... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oafc0000 Posted April 14, 2014 Share Posted April 14, 2014 If the Liverpool fans had all got themselves into the ground in good time the tragedy would never have happened. The build up of fans started around the turnstiles started around 2:30pm... Well before kick off.... Due to the lack of pre-funneling before fans got to the turnstiles many fans went to the wrong turnstile and where turned way only to find they couldn't move anywhere due to others arriving. The turnstiles provision was woefully inadequate as well. So the problem grew and grew. Lord Taylor said late arrivals was a red herring.... Today if you got to many major event where fans are not familiar with the stadium you are usually pre-funneled / screened and tickets checked well before you get to a turnstile. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
4oakslatic Posted April 14, 2014 Share Posted April 14, 2014 I think it is the responsibility of us older fans to make sure that those enjoying the uplift in ground standards etc are aware of the. hills borough / Bradford horrors so it doesn't happen again. A minutes silence now and again is absolutely worthwhile and IMO necessary, the kids on this board will only realise when they have kids of their own!!! Dislike, antipathy of Liverpool fans or the club is a real red herring, it could have been any of us - that's why we all need to remember Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
opinions4u Posted April 14, 2014 Share Posted April 14, 2014 The stitch up job by the police, press and others in the days after Hillsborough killed 96 football supporters has been so remarkably successful that it lives on in a myriad of untruths perpetuated by football supporters today. I find it :censored:ing extraordinary. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
leeslover Posted April 14, 2014 Share Posted April 14, 2014 Completely agree the last two posts. Much like fans singing about the fire drill at Bradford, it's not their fault if they didn't know but it's a useful chance for them to learn. I believed the Hillsborough lies pretty much until last year, I'm glad to know the truth and I would still be ignorant if the families had let it lie Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rosa Posted April 14, 2014 Share Posted April 14, 2014 If the Liverpool fans had all got themselves into the ground in good time the tragedy would never have happened. Supt Marshall stated that at 2pm he was on the outer concourse on Leppings Lane and all was calm. The build-up began approximately 20 minutes later. Soon after he discussed with Inspector Sykes the large number of fans ‘spilling off the pavements into Leppings Lane’. He closed the road to traffic but estimated that there was sufficient time before kick-off to process the increasingly dense crowd. It is evident from the disclosed documents that the situation in the Control Box after 2.35pm became chaotic. There were constant incoming calls and radio messages, the radio system failed and police reinforcements were sent to Leppings Lane under the wrong assumption that there was crowd disorder. There was clear evidence in the build-up to the match, both inside and outside the stadium, that turnstiles serving the Leppings Lane terrace could not process the required number of fans in time for the kick-off. Yet the growing danger was ignored. When the request to delay the kick-off eventually was made, it was considered too late as the teams were on the pitch. From the documents provided to the Panel it is clear that the crush at the Leppings Lane turnstiles outside the stadium was not caused by fans arriving ‘late’ for the kick-off. The turnstiles were inadequate to process the crowd safely, and the rate of entry insufficient to prevent a dangerous build-up of people outside the ground. From chapter 3 of the HIP report. The crowd was building up 40 minutes before kick-off, the police were losing control of the situation due to poor planning/judgement and a breakdown in communication 25 minutes before kick-off and the crush wasn't caused by fans turning up late. Feel free to believe whatever you want. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oafc0000 Posted April 14, 2014 Share Posted April 14, 2014 From chapter 3 of the HIP report. The crowd was building up 40 minutes before kick-off, the police were losing control of the situation due to poor planning/judgement and a breakdown in communication 25 minutes before kick-off and the crush wasn't caused by fans turning up late. Feel free to believe whatever you want. Cheers for that! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jimsleftfoot Posted April 15, 2014 Share Posted April 15, 2014 (edited) Completely agree the last two posts. Much like fans singing about the fire drill at Bradford, it's not their fault if they didn't know but it's a useful chance for them to learn. I believed the Hillsborough lies pretty much until last year, I'm glad to know the truth and I would still be ignorant if the families had let it lie Indeed, the problem is that there has been 24 years of misinformation and lies that have coloured the perceptions of many and unless people an active interest in what has now transpired, it might take another quarter of a century to get the correct message accross. Edited April 15, 2014 by jimsleftfoot Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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