Striker

[oafc1955]

Johnson saying we might have to ship a couple out to fund a goal scorer......

The only 2 of any real value for me would be J Wilson and JCH.

JCH going wouldn't bother me in the slightest however losing Wilson would be a big blow.....suggestions anyone?

[frizzell54]

He should ship out some of his mates.

[JoeP]

Or he could not ship anyone out and play Forte as a striker...

[dpwild]

JCH needs to go end of. I'll pay for his travel.

[Ryan]

If JCH has 'value' cash in, ASAP.

[opinions4u]

Johnson saying we might have to ship a couple out to fund a goal scorer......

Well Gros has been knocked off the wage bill, so that's one. If I was to suggest another I'd guess at Kusunga, especially given the likelihood of him making Angola's African Cup of Nations squad.

 

Given the non-allocation of the number nine shirt it's fairly clear to me that he's expected to sign a striker, perhaps at the end of the transfer window or the start of the loan window (2 months less wage to pay than getting them at the end of June).

 

I don't rate JCH. The magic moments are rare and I think he's only kept his place in the team because Johnson wants to give his "project" every chance to become a success.

 

Forte plus decent striker = potential this season. JCH = league two next season.

[oafc1955]

Apparently Gros was on a pittance so we're looking at 2 more out.....could it be we are just waiting to 'Micah' move!!

[JoeP]

Reasons why I'm pro-JCH:

 

He’s young.

 

He’s being asked to play up front with no support.

 

He was good last season.

 

Given Lee Johnson’s pre-season form for bringing in more than one decent striker, I’d rather have him than not.

 

He’s been linked with Championship side Wolves (Rumour maybe, but I don’t hear of many other rumours of our other players being linked with Championship sides..)

 

He’s been linked with Championship side Rotherham (Rumour maybe, but I don’t hear of many other rumours of our other players being linked with Championship sides..Steve Evans is a :censored: (probably not relevant..)).

 

If we sell him, I can see him going on to be another Chris O’Grady, who we also sold too early...

 

We're only 4 games in - it's the tactics that need changing, not the personnel.

[Ryan]

He was good last season

Was he?

[4froale]

I'd be pretty pissed off if we sold Wilson, very good player.

[HarryBosch]

I'd like to see us get a better striker in as much as the next person but, FFS let's at least support a young player being asked to do more than he (sadly) looks capable of at this stage of his career.

[opinions4u]

Reasons why I'm pro-JCH:

Hes young.

So was I once. I was :censored: then. I'm :censored: and old now.

 

Hes being asked to play up front with no support.

Philiskirk and Forte have started the last two games. We've looked a bit better as a team. Has JCH looked better as a player? Or has he just missed the sitters presented to him by a more supportive formation?

 

He was good last season.

Up to New Year he was :censored:. Jumping with no intention of getting the ball and fall over to try and con a free kick out of the referee. He was potential and nothing more. He improved a bit. But not a lot. 6 goals. Half of them against Bradford. At no stage has he looked like a decent all round league one striker. He might become one. But when his misses have cost four points in four games I'm struggling.

 

Given Lee Johnsons pre-season form for bringing in more than one decent striker, Id rather have him than not.

I don't really understand the logic here.

 

Hes been linked with Championship side Wolves (Rumour maybe, but I dont hear of many other rumours of our other players being linked with Championship sides..)

I don't really understand the logic here.

 

Hes been linked with Championship side Rotherham (Rumour maybe, but I dont hear of many other rumours of our other players being linked with Championship sides..Steve Evans is a :censored: (probably not relevant..)).

I don't really understand the logic here.

 

If we sell him, I can see him going on to be another Chris OGrady, who we also sold too early...

Or he might slide into non-league obscurity.

 

We're only 4 games in - it's the tactics that need changing, not the personnel.

The tactics have changed about seven times so far this season. A settled system would be good. Most of the personnel would benefit from it. The team as a whole would benefit from a lead striker who scores in more than 10% of his games. Edited August 24, 2014 by opinions4u

[shefflatic]

How about the whole bloody team starts to man up and actually want to get in the oppo box and score??

 

What is the insistance every season on 'we need that striker'???

 

Yes having one that scores 15-20 goals a season is welcome, but does no one realise that the way the manager has us playing means we create very little across the whole team and thereby having Leon Clarke up front as an example, would in itself be pointless given his lack of service/supporting runners??

 

Yesterday it was seriously one of the worst games i had seen us play - no aggression, no pressuring of opponents, 30 seconds behind where the ball was going and therefore chasing shadows; couldn't pass a ball 5 yards, no clear pattern of play or structure - passing to midfield who then stopped and turned back, passed to the CB, the the FB, long ball, oppo have it back again.

 

Awful

 

Then the last 20mins someone flicked a switch and we suddenly began to RUN and MOVE and PASS.......low and behold we had a couple of good chances..........

 

We play in a way that is defensive and negative - hitting teams on the counter attack both home and away............except we don't counter and don't counter at pace. No wonder JCH looks disinterested having to hold it up for 10 minutes before anyone from midfield even thinks 'oh yeah, i might make a run here he looks like he needs a hand' - where are the runners beyond or just behind JCH??

 

If you're playing sunday league football, it would be instinctive to make the supporting run even before the defender has kicked it long for the striker, as you know he will need support - we don't do this so they must be under instruction to 'hold position' and not move forwards.

 

Defensively by all means LJ have a system and structure, but when are attacking, how about asking Kelly to stay back but asking everyone else + fullbacks to get up the pitch and run at the opposition???

 

Just a thought.............................

 

We have the players, they are being stifled by our manager's tactics. If we played all game every game like we did in the last 20mins yesterday but still lose, i would accept that; clearly we wouldn't be good enough would be the final verdict, but we at least saw effort and desire to attack, that'll do me.

 

And now, just like GJ down the road at Yeovil, they are both talking about shipping players out 3 weeks after saying they were both happy with their squads....?

More players chopped out of the team then, more players who are unfit, more players who will take time to gel only they won't get the time because we aren't getting results; manager then needs results so changes personnel, that doesn't work so in come more players

 

And repeat.

 

I accept we have a limited budget thereby our players won't be the best, but that doesn't excuse a lack of running, desire to score a goal and general effort; up to 70mins yesterday we had none of that, it really was bad.

We're not expecting Iniesta-esque football either, just wingers and midfielders who get themselves and the ball in the box and occasionally have a shot.

Apart from a JCH drive and a Elokobi (yes, a centre half) having a swing, no one from midfield get mildly close enough to the box to have a shot.................

 

Look at yourself Lee before the players. Either way if it carries on the way it is then the inevitable will happen, so it's up to him to change it.

Edited August 24, 2014 by shefflatic

[JoeP]

So was I once. I was :censored: then. I'm :censored: and old now.

 

My turn not to get the logic - so you've always been a :censored: footballer? Good to know...JCH has shown he can be good and, nurtured in the right way, could perform like that more consistently. Being ask to lead the line when he's relatively inexperienced is a big ask in my opinion.

 

Philiskirk and Forte have started the last two games. We've looked a bit better as a team. Has JCH looked better as a player? Or has he just missed the sitters presented to him by a more supportive formation?

 

He's missed two chances, maybe? I wouldn't say he's been bombarded with opportunities.

 

Up to New Year he was :censored:. Jumping with no intention of getting the ball and fall over to try and con a free kick out of the referee. He was potential and nothing more. He improved a bit. But not a lot. 6 goals. Half of them against Bradford. At no stage has he looked like a decent all round league one striker. He might become one. But when his misses have cost four points in four games I'm struggling.

 

I don't really understand the logic here.

 

I don't really understand the logic here.

 

I don't really understand the logic here.

 

If better teams than us are sniffing around, then they can obviously see something there to work with. I'd rather it was developed and happened here. Who knows, we might even sell him for millions in two years time. Do you really think LJ has a better replacement lined up, even if we fund it through JCH's sale?

 

Or he might slide into non-league obscurity.

 

He might not...

 

The tactics have changed about seven times so far this season. A settled system would be good. Most of the personnel would benefit from it. The team as a whole would benefit from a lead striker who scores in more than 10% of his games.

 

I don't think the tactics have changed dramatically. DP has played a bit further forward, granted, but I think the team would benefit greatly from a no-nonsense 4-4-2 with Forte and JCH as the front pair running onto through balls and awaiting fast, early crosses.

Edited August 24, 2014 by JoeP

[nzlatic]

What is the insistance every season on 'we need that striker'???

 

Yes having one that scores 15-20 goals a season is welcome, but does no one realise that the way the manager has us playing means we create very little across the whole team and thereby having Leon Clarke up front as an example, would in itself be pointless given his lack of service/supporting runners??

 

 

I don't buy this at all. A good striker isn't one that just finishes chances that are created for him, it's one that moves better than others and gets into positions that demand the ball being played to him, making runs that cry out for a through ball and getting in front of defenders to turn an average cross into a goal. If you put a better striker in the team not only will the chances created be converted more often but there'll be more chances in the first place irrespective of tactics.

 

Which brings me on to tactics...

 

 

Yesterday it was seriously one of the worst games i had seen us play - no aggression, no pressuring of opponents, 30 seconds behind where the ball was going and therefore chasing shadows; couldn't pass a ball 5 yards, no clear pattern of play or structure - passing to midfield who then stopped and turned back, passed to the CB, the the FB, long ball, oppo have it back again.

 

Awful

....

 

Then the last 20mins someone flicked a switch and we suddenly began to RUN and MOVE and PASS.......low and behold we had a couple of good chances..........

 

We have the players, they are being stifled by our manager's tactics. If we played all game every game like we did in the last 20mins yesterday but still lose, i would accept that; clearly we wouldn't be good enough would be the final verdict, but we at least saw effort and desire to attack, that'll do me.

 

 

So hang on, if the tactics are so bad what happened for the last 20 minutes? Let me guess, Tommy Wright changed it? Or the players ignored the tactics imposed on them?

 

Or maybe they finally started playing as instructed? I have no idea, but you're contradicting yourself.

 

I'm as frustrated as anyone and I'm sick of this league but this constant sniping at players/tactics this early in the season is ridiculous. Especially when you look at the opposition we've had so far.

[jimsleftfoot]

I think we have half decent players but the tactics were pretty rubbish yesterday. Too many sideways passes, players holding their position rather than moving into space, not much penetration into the final third. JCH is not a target man. We didn't seem to want to take any risks and feared a counter attack. On the other hand, neither did PNE.

Edited August 24, 2014 by jimsleftfoot

[Keepingthe Faith]

We are creating plenty of chances even with key players not firing on all cylinders yet. If and when the team gels we will create even more. But can we create enough to find JCH's ratio of goals to chances?

 

IMO. JCH is not far away from being our 20 goal striker, he gets in the right positions at the right time and really should have had at least 3 goals from tap ins this season even allowing for missing 1 in 3 chances.

 

Being in the right place at the right time is something you can not teach it is instinct.

 

The thing JCH lacks is composure in front of goal, can this be taught? I'm not sure if it can, is it a quality which comes with experience? or is it something you either have or don't have?

 

If someone can answer those questions we will know whether he is worth persisting with.

[slystallone]

 

I don't buy this at all. A good striker isn't one that just finishes chances that are created for him, it's one that moves better than others and gets into positions that demand the ball being played to him, making runs that cry out for a through ball and getting in front of defenders to turn an average cross into a goal. If you put a better striker in the team not only will the chances created be converted more often but there'll be more chances in the first place irrespective of tactics.

 

Which brings me on to tactics...

 

 

 

So hang on, if the tactics are so bad what happened for the last 20 minutes? Let me guess, Tommy Wright changed it? Or the players ignored the tactics imposed on them?

 

Or maybe they finally started playing as instructed? I have no idea, but you're contradicting yourself.

 

I'm as frustrated as anyone and I'm sick of this league but this constant sniping at players/tactics this early in the season is ridiculous. Especially when you look at the opposition we've had so far.

It's not ridiculous though is it? We can go back to last season aswell as including this season. I dont normally consider what went on the previous season; but - our own manager wants us to include last term, as he has already done with some of his quotes regarding 'is it no win in 3 or 1 loss in 13' from last week...

 

So, using last season; and the 4 league & 1 cup games from this season; it's very reasonable & not ridiculous at all to come to the fairly obvious conclusion that its patently not right.

 

I dont think he knows what he's wanting to do. The tactics have changed 7, 8, 9 times already in 4 league games. The players have been chopped and changed around between games and during games. He says he's happy to go with what he has already, then signs more players, and then says he needs more on top of that.

It was a budget that he will have known exactly how much was in it to use. He's brought in the players that have arrived; he's overseen re-signing players from last season on fresh deals, and now - we need more players in, but 2 will have to leave to do that. It's madness; he's done this; no-one else.

 

I posted during the summer, several times in fact, that if we started the season with JCH, Philliskirk, Turner & Bove only; LJ would be dropping one heck of a bollock - it was clear to me that those 4 were lacking experience; proven records and that it was a huge gamble to trust potential in the hope it would work.

 

So, we have brought in a RB, and yet re-signed last years RB. I'm no Connor Brown fan, at all really, but - if you re-sign him; then why the need to go and sign another RB. Waste on either Brown or B Wilson's wage; as Kusunga of J Wilson could cover the 1 outright RB choice if needed.

 

Why player Forte, a striker, in a midfield role, when he's a striker? We have an inexperienced young striker struggling upfront, and yet have a - what is he, 28 year old one who does have experience and know-how and is playing a role that has meant he's been back defending and covering at LB more than he has been up in the final 1/3. Crazy.

 

He needs to decide what he wants to do. He stated last season wanting to play 'proper football' to pass from tbe back, pass & move, play it wide, flood forward at pace, press high up the pitch.

He then abandoned that.

He went 4-5-1. He went compact, he went negative, he decided he wanted to shut teams out and hope we could nick a goal.

 

This season, he hasnt settled on what he wants to do: we've had allsorts of formations and tactics; 2 or 3 different ones in 1 game. None of them are getting the best out of any of our players.

 

Settle on a formation. Settle on tactics. Settle on players. And fecking stick to it. The fact that many on here, at games and in the pubs can see that it should be 4-4-2 is neither here nor there, its LJ's decision what he wants to play - but so far, he hasnt decided. He needs to, and fast.

 

This is a :censored:e start to the season. The formation and tactics are wank. We've players in key positions massively out of sorts. We've an unbalanced squad; packed with too many midfielders and not enough quality options up front. And when its added to last season; its a continuation of :censored:e football.

 

He has chance to sort it out - but should he be having to do that now? If he'd had a plan and followed on it during pre-season; he wouldnt need to act now. And - he needs to act now; because its wank. We're wank and his whole game tactics are wank. Over to you Lee Johnson, sort it out, and fast if you wouldnt mind...

[slystallone]

Sorry for the rant - but i'm well & truly pissed off with this ATM; and have been for a while.

 

He's talked a decent enough game so far, but really hasn't backed it up with anything. At all.

 

Its :censored:e. Proper :censored:e; and its been :censored:e for a while. He needs to sort this out & quick...

Edited August 24, 2014 by slystallone

[Gaz_Oafc]

Sorry for the rant - but i'm well & truly pissed off with this ATM; and have been for a while.

 

He's talked a decent enough game so far, but really hasn't backed it up with anything. At all.

 

Its :censored:e. Proper :censored:e; and its been :censored:e for a while. He needs to sort this out & quick...

Don't worry, we'll just let his contract run out... Oh wait..

[opinions4u]

Settle on a formation. Settle on tactics. Settle on players. And fecking stick to it.

I think this is where I am. Get players comfortable in your primary system before you confuse the wotsits off them with the complicated stuff.

 

Johnson's like the graduate recruit manager in a workplace full of experienced peers who've been there years, seen it, done it. He bounds in full of qualifications, enthusiasm and ideas which while laudable won't always work when applied to real people in a real world environment.

 

A couple of other observations:

 

Play it from the back has turned into knock it harmlessly around the midfield, back to Rachubka who punts it upfield. You'll get more accuracy hoofing it long from the centre circle, so you might as well bin the pretty stuff if you're incapable of playing it in the opposition half.

 

Dayton was going to be our special player this season. I'm not saying he should be starting games but my word that's a rapid fall from prominence that supports your theory about Johnson being the tinkerman who doesn't know what his best team is. The manager did this last season too.

[LaticsEddie]

Get rid of noble. With him an Willie gone we have a grand a week or there abouts spare I would imagine. Dunno where the rest would come from like...

[deyres42]

Scored in 1 game in the last 28, having next to no impact in general play and now missing easy chances which are costing us points - either Johnson and his crew have a blind spot with this lad or as O4U says, he's playing because of the 'investment' they've made in him.

[BP1960]

Cardiff have just signed a lad from non league, he's unlikely to get in their first team for some time, could he do a job here on loan? it helps both clubs, Cardiff in his development, and the Latics who may find that elusive goal poacher.

I should think he would be a cheap option too.

 

http://www.walesonline.co.uk/sport/football/football-news/new-striker-danny-johnson-already-7414336

Edited August 24, 2014 by BP1960

[Ritchierich]

JCH is simply not good enough (yet?) which wouldn't be a problem if his attitude wasn't so awful. Not sure I can watch his sulking anymore