WIZZO83 Posted February 27, 2015 Share Posted February 27, 2015 As most of you know I though LJ was an average manager but an excellent PR machine but something everyone has missed including myself until last night.... Question 1? How many youth team players or graduates (under 20) have started a first team game in the league this season? Question 2? In LJs 23 months with the club how many youth team players or graduates (under 20) have started a first team game in the league. Question 3? Does our lack of reserve team football obstruct youth players progressing into the first team? Considering the huge success TP has had in the past 10 years I find it astonishing our youth team development has ground to a halt over LJs reign. The only positive is Carl Winchester but he has been around the 1st team for 3 or 4 seasons and has always been technically very gifted. Peoples thoughts on this? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deyres42 Posted February 27, 2015 Share Posted February 27, 2015 Shouldn't you be asking Philliskirk and the other youth coaches? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Break The Silence Posted February 27, 2015 Share Posted February 27, 2015 I didn't like Lee Johnson's choice in shoes much either. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nzlatic Posted February 27, 2015 Share Posted February 27, 2015 How many have left or been poached due to lack of chances and thrived elsewhere? How many have thrived when out on loan? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
opinions4u Posted February 27, 2015 Share Posted February 27, 2015 He didn't deliver on his promises here. But he leaves us better off than when he joined. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deyres42 Posted February 27, 2015 Share Posted February 27, 2015 He didn't deliver on his promises here. But he leaves us better off than when he joined. Indeed. I was never in the Johnson is a legend camp but people are trying to rewrite history somewhat now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NJ33 Posted February 27, 2015 Share Posted February 27, 2015 I asked the same style questions two weeks ago but laid the blame squarely at the feet of Philliskirk. He hasn't produced for a while but is exempt from criticism Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OAFC33 Posted February 27, 2015 Share Posted February 27, 2015 I asked the same style questions two weeks ago but laid the blame squarely at the feet of Philliskirk. He hasn't produced for a while but is exempt from criticism The players TP develops need something to bridge the gap between youth and 1st team. That has disappeared this season. Of the 3 taken on for this season. Bove - 2 loans. Brief JPT appearance. Truelove - 2 loans. Coleman - playing the odd youth team game and warming the bench. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WIZZO83 Posted February 27, 2015 Author Share Posted February 27, 2015 Since 2006 (10 appearances in a season) Eardley Taylor Smalley Black Brooke Tarky Winchester Mellor Millar Simpson (something strange happened with him went to Leicester played for Accrington turned a new deal down clearly ability but left under LJ) Not 1 academy player played 10 games in 23 months never mind in 1 season Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
opinions4u Posted February 27, 2015 Share Posted February 27, 2015 Eaves? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NewBlue Posted February 27, 2015 Share Posted February 27, 2015 You can criticise him tactically but Winchester, Tarkowski and JCH speak for themselves in youth development. He's done a tremendous job with them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NJ33 Posted February 27, 2015 Share Posted February 27, 2015 The players TP develops need something to bridge the gap between youth and 1st team. That has disappeared this season. Of the 3 taken on for this season. Bove - 2 loans. Brief JPT appearance. Truelove - 2 loans. Coleman - playing the odd youth team game and warming the bench. As there is no reserves the loan system is now the bridging of the gap but bove has largely failed, correct me if im wrong but 1 goal? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aaronoafc Posted February 27, 2015 Share Posted February 27, 2015 You can criticise him tactically but Winchester, Tarkowski and JCH speak for themselves in youth development. He's done a tremendous job with them. I don't know, Winchester has been around the first team for 2-3 years and always looked like he had something just never got a run of games which granted LJ gave him but I don't think he was developed as such. Tarkowski yes I agree with, was played under Dickov but shined under LJ. JCH again, joined as a rough diamond, left as a rough diamond. Had/has all the attributes in the world but spends most of his game trying to draw fouls when he's a unit. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jimsleftfoot Posted February 27, 2015 Share Posted February 27, 2015 The youth team is a long term investment. Why it becomes the managers responsibility is beyond me being that most last less than three seasons. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WIZZO83 Posted February 27, 2015 Author Share Posted February 27, 2015 Tom Eaves good one. Tarky give you that but he wasn't a newbie coming into the team, had 20/30 appearances before LJ came along. Winchester again had 30 appearances before LJ turned up. I am talking about the lad who will play every week in 2016/2017 who gets 5 games this season, 15 games next season. There isn't any pipeline at all Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
josh_latics Posted February 27, 2015 Share Posted February 27, 2015 Tom Eaves good one. Tarky give you that but he wasn't a newbie coming into the team, had 20/30 appearances before LJ came along. Winchester again had 30 appearances before LJ turned up. I am talking about the lad who will play every week in 2016/2017 who gets 5 games this season, 15 games next season. There isn't any pipeline at all There's no way that anyone can predict this. I don't watch the youth team, so I don't know loads about them. But Tuohy, Jacobs have been on the bench this year, they very may well be first teamers in a couple of seasons. Equally, they may not, but there's so many external factors with kids, there's only so much TP and any manager can do. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
opinions4u Posted February 27, 2015 Share Posted February 27, 2015 You can criticise him tactically but Winchester, Tarkowski and JCH speak for themselves in youth development. He's done a tremendous job with them. Winchester - I'm going to credit Johnson with this one. There's been some tough love dished out. The threat of being sent out on loan. The lad has finally responded. Tarky - Tony Philliskirk gave him the first team break and the consistency was already coming through between Dickov's back room team being fired and Johnson being appointed. JCH - I really don't think he improved that much. But credit Johnson with managing to get £300k for him. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Simoncorneyisgod Posted February 27, 2015 Share Posted February 27, 2015 We've had a right result with JCH I think........seems more interested in proving his gangsta look that playing footy.......the latest edition is a gold tooth! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GravityGrave Posted February 27, 2015 Share Posted February 27, 2015 Alessandra to that list from 06 ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
laticsmarra Posted February 27, 2015 Share Posted February 27, 2015 We are in such a fragile position ie always looking over our shoulder at relegation that it is difficult for a manager to take a chance on blooding youth players. Also the transition from youth to a full contract is difficult and we are very poor in helping players through that period of their lives,compounded now by the lack of reserve team football. This is an ongoing problem within the Club,Winchester has been around the first team for 4 years and is only now blossoming,this should have happened earlier and he has just narrowly escaped disappearing back to Ireland like Kirk Millar. We seem obliged to keep a couple on each year from the Youth but it is pointless if we are not going to put them in the firing line.also the merry go round of managers has a very negative effect on the transition process, it's hard enough for experienced players to make the grade with a new manager,what chance have young fringe players got. Really do need to put TP in charge of all football affairs,he is the only one that sticks with us and will be capable of cementing the club together with a coherent youth progression policy. We are now faced with a new manager,new team next year it's just an annual merrygoround that makes it hard to build empathy with the club and team. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BP1960 Posted February 27, 2015 Share Posted February 27, 2015 LJ scrapped the reserves, a bad move IMO, the youth could learn their trade alongside older players, not anymore, Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikejh45 Posted February 28, 2015 Share Posted February 28, 2015 F*ck me...another thread to beat LJ up. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
opinions4u Posted February 28, 2015 Share Posted February 28, 2015 F*ck me...another thread to beat LJ up. I think he's made himself fair game. But we will get over it shortly. I did expect him to wait for something better than Barnsley. It's a bit like your wife running off with a Yorkshireman who works for the same firm, isn't particularly good looking or good at his job, but he earns a bit more. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oh Heck C-Beck Posted February 28, 2015 Share Posted February 28, 2015 I must admit I hate the manager and player merry-go-round. I'd rather invest in youth and :censored: off the mercenaries even if it did lead to the possibility of going down as well as up. Were we not assessed recently and told we could increase our youth level if we had another pitch. Would not this be a better investment than more first team players in the long term? I know many people get hysterical when the relegation word is banded around but do people really prefer treading water and the huge turnover this involves in the feint hope we can fluke promotion over actually building a club we can be proud of? Players we can relate too? I don't think the problem was with LJ I just don't see a coherent strategy at the club for bringing through players into the first team. As it gets tougher at the top for English players to break through into the likes of Manchester United and Manchester City, surely we are ideally situated to offer local talents a genuine root into professional football. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
opinions4u Posted February 28, 2015 Share Posted February 28, 2015 Were we not assessed recently and told we could increase our youth level if we had another pitch. Would not this be a better investment than more first team players in the long term? I think it was four pitches. Doubtless you'd need changing and office facilities, maintenance and coaching staff etc as well. I'd love there to be some way of delivering it. But it might mean losing, say, three players from the squad to pay for it. So while it may deliver long term benefits the short term cost is probably significant. Perhaps the Trust could focus time and effort on such a project once it has worked out how to count members. I know many people get hysterical when the relegation word is banded around but do people really prefer treading water and the huge turnover this involves in the feint hope we can fluke promotion over actually building a club we can be proud of? Players we can relate too? I hear you. Might help address changes to loan rules too. I don't think the problem was with LJ I just don't see a coherent strategy at the club for bringing through players into the first team. As it gets tougher at the top for English players to break through into the likes of Manchester United and Manchester City, surely we are ideally situated to offer local talents a genuine root into professional football. Johnson certainly talked about it. Tried to implement it a little but didn't stick with it. Fans saw short term results as more important and a handful of extra defeats last season would have seen us relegated so I'm glad he ditched the Mellor CB experiment! I've wondered about Bove being given a first team chance. But he's not exactly ripped up trees three divisions lower. I can't recall the full context but there was an interview with the manager earlier in the season where he effectively said "Oldham isn't the right club for doing this" - perhaps a swipe at resource. Perhaps just an acceptance that he should focus his efforts on the first team rather than trying to run the whole show. If I've understood the workings of Barnsley correctly, they've got a better resourced set up full of bureaucracy. But I'm not clear how much power "head coach" has over it. Come to think of it, I don't really care. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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