Notes from Fans' Meeting with Chairman et al 24/1/2017

[Guest nonaenever]

Fans’ Meeting Notes 24/01/2017 5:00PM – 6:30PM

 

Club Attendees: Simon Corney, Mark Moisley and Anthony Gee

Fan Attendees: Nonaenever, kusungaisGod, Adamoafc, Danbright12, DPWild and Laticsmarra

Apologies: AndyB and Mark (fans)

 

The intention was to video the meeting; however, the cameraman was otherwise engaged with the BBC pre-match. SC was happy for videoing to take place when available but he explained that if we wanted to proceed with the meeting “offline” it may actually be beneficial as he would be able to provide more detailed information than he would be able to do via broadcast. We agreed to start the meeting without filming.

 

Certain information was explained and documents shown to us that we were not expecting and it would not be possible to fully disclose in the public domain. This gesture was a great help with regard to putting the facts below into context. We were not asked to sign confidentiality agreements but we have used sensible discretion in conveying information. The offer remains open for any fan to meet SC and/or to examine books/contracts.

 

As a group (anyone else welcome to attend) we intend to follow up SC’s offer to meet again soon. That may be an opportune time (on a non-match day) to film the meeting and pick up again on any issues raised below and any questions that weren’t covered due to time constraints.

 

Finances

· SC set out to dispel the myth that we are operating on a bargain basement budget. We were shown a schedule which showed that squad wages averaged per player (without doing a detailed calculation) circa £1600 per week (or circa £83k per annum). That is before appearance money, contract payments for number of games played and season end bonuses. SC believes there are at least 6 teams in the division with lower budgets. We are paying full wages for all but one loan player.

· This season fees have been paid for 4 players, 2 of these were £100K each excluding agents’ fees.

· When asked where the money was coming from to fund the expenditure on players etc. SC said he was funding it. The club accountant said on the phone (via loudspeaker) that last season SC put circa £1.3m into the club. To date this season, he has put £900k in and expects by the end of the season to have put in a further £400K. The club has an ongoing gap between income and expenditure averaging circa £1.3m per year.

· When asked how often wages have been paid late, SC said on only one occasion when, unfortunately, he hadn’t been able to get the funds in place by the Friday to cover them.

· Over the November-January period he had been funding a situation where there have been only 4 home games, each game generating circa £8K-£10K net income.

· Monthly costs are around £300K.

· The club receives £52k per month from the Football League, from which they deduct £14K per month (£170K each year) for a pension contribution that we have to make from our Premier League days. This covers 12 people at the club in those days, who benefit from this pension. We therefore net £38K per month from the Football League.

 

 

Corporate Structure

 

· Brass Bank (BB) (Simon Blitz and Danny Gazal) own the land. BB paid the following to buy the club:

£m

Council owned land 4.8

Darlington’s transport land (Back of RRE) 0.4

Paying off previous debts 1.1

Funding running of club December to end of

season with no season ticket income 0.6

Initial cost 6.9

SC estimated losses 2003 – 2010 approx. 15.0

 

SC estimated Investment by BB 21.9

 

 

SC stated that although there is a dormant company registered in the UK, BB’s business which paid the above was "offshore” i.e. not in the UK because Blitz and Gazal were not resident in the UK. Explained as a perfectly valid and normal set-up for overseas investors.

 

The only time BB get any money back is if we reach the Premiership, the payment is contractually capped at £4m. Simon Blitz visits UK 2-3 times a year and would be happy to meet up with fans and answer further questions.

 

· Brass Bank Limited (BBL) - UK Registered

Built the stand at a cost of £6.2m (so far) received £1.7m grant from the council (effectively compensation for the aborted Failsworth move) and has taken a £4m mortgage against the stand. Also owns the Renal Centre on which there is security (we didn’t discuss that).

 

BBL’s repayments on the mortgage are £300k each year.

The club has a 40 year contract, which is 20 years plus a club option for a further 20 (anyone free to examine) to rent the land & buildings from BBL @ £100K per annum (recently reduced from £150k).

The club has paid no rent to BBL for 4 years and there is no intention to claw back the rent i.e. it will be written-off. They will want to start collecting rent one day.

 

· Oldham Event Centre Limited (OEC)

This company (owned 100% by Mr Blitz and Mr Gazal) runs the hospitality in the stand. The football club receive all of the net profit for match days from the stand, car park and any club related events such as the end of season dinner. They also receive all of the executive box income. All told this equates to the club receiving £300K per annum from the OEC. SC had ensured this arrangement was protected via contract rather than being simply a gentleman’s agreement. The OEC lost £150K up to March 16 and will only start to make a return once the top floor is open.

Other

 

· SC doesn’t interfere in signings or picking the team etc. As an example, if he did he wouldn’t personally have had Burgess on loan, which resulted in not giving Edmundson a chance to develop.

· SC has 2 priorities; keep the club in Division 1 and sell the club. He acknowledged that he had 2 potential investors from China who had been with him since Sunday. Anthony Gee said that he has spoken to over 100 parties about buying the club. One potential buyer would have wanted ground sharing, outside of Oldham, and SC did not want that to happen.

· SC feels that the only spectacularly wrong managerial appointment he had made was Darren Kelly.

· SC said feedback from other clubs is that our away support is amongst the best there is. However, 3^rd party comment is that they cannot believe the different attitude of sections of the home crowd. Negativity from a vocal minority at games has actually been a major factor in some players leaving and/or rejecting new contracts. We were provided with several names of players affected by this but do not consider it in anyone’s best interest to publish them.

· Players’ food was stopped after the Lincoln game purely as a punishment. SC asked how many people come in for 1.5 hours work with breakfast before and lunch afterwards. He simply could not face the thought of players being asked how they would like their eggs done the morning after the Lincoln debacle. He was angry.

· He has been trying to source a scoreboard from China. He was very grateful for the £21k but he is also aware that for £21k (even excluding installation costs) you will get a very small screen. He is looking at options, one being perimeter boards, that would cost significantly more but may allow the club to generate revenue from sponsorship/advertising etc. He is still working on it and hopes to have something in place for the start of next season. The visitors from China are involved in that industry and he added they were being courted as potential investors too although he wanted to keep it quiet and low key at the request of the potential investors. He also said that if anyone who has donated towards the scoreboard wants their money back he is happy to refund.

· Sports Direct had the potential to generate £1m with a guaranteed £500K. Contract is target based and not currently performing well - circa £85k-£100k income each year. SC thinks Sports Direct would pull out if they could. They read message boards and do market research with fans and the results aren’t good.

· John Sheridan was offered a lot more money to go to Notts County and SC said it was up to him to decide.

· Steve Evans: they met many times, contract drawn up and ready to sign. Targeting players and then Notts Forest appeared as a possibility for Evans in the background. The salary on offer was exceedingly high, and one we could never compete with – he pulled out of our offer at the very last minute.

· Steve Robinson was formally announced on 9^th July but was actually working at the club effectively from 1^st July whilst his contract was being finalised. His contract took over 2 ½ weeks to negotiate and complete and that was not helpful for pre-season preparations. He could really have started about 20^th June. SR later regretted this delay and wishes he had just got on with the job. SC says lovely bloke and good coach and SR didn’t request his full compensation entitlement from the club when he left.

· AG confirmed that the supporters bar in the North Stand is set to open at the start of next season.

​ALL 6 FANS ATTENDING WOULD LIKE TO PUT ON RECORD THEIR SINCERE THANKS TO SIMON CORNEY, MARK MOISLEY AND ANTHONY GEE FOR FINDING THE TIME TO MEET WITH US, ON WHAT WAS AN EXTREMELY BUSY EVENING AT THE CLUB.

[sjk2008]

 

".....they were being courted as potential investors too although he wanted to keep it quiet and low key at the request of the potential investors."

 

I guess this is one reason for the "Club Statement" in response to Keegan's piece...

Edited January 27, 2017 by sjk2008

[HarryBosch]

So, how much do they want for the club and what does the buyer get for that?

Edited January 27, 2017 by HarryBosch

[ghostofcecere]

So, how much do they want for the club and what does the buyer get for that?

I don't think we will ever get an answer to the price question, but it would be nice to hear what the potential options are. Can the whole thing including OEC be bought? Just the football side? etc. Amd what is TTA's preferred option, to get rid of the lot or just the football club?

[Aaron West]

Was anything mentioned about what is for sale? Could it all be bought, has there been anymore interest if so what's stopped any potential investment or take over? Not the right people? Or price?

 

 

Was anything asked about why we seem to get next to nothing for our players being sold (I don't know we do for sure) but am pretty sure a majority think we do.

Why was the Tarky clause sold?

What's happening with that charge from the company based in scouseland?

 

Really grateful that you went and please don't take my questions as a post saying you should have said this or that because I chose not to attend am just curious.

Cheers

Edited January 27, 2017 by Aaron West

[yarddog73]

If that squad is on an average of £1600 each someones having our pants down.

[mcfluff1985]

A good start NNN. Some good answers. Obviously you've seen paperwork as well. Curious as to whether any people that attended who have hammered Corney in the past have changed their minds?

[Danbright12]

A good start NNN. Some good answers. Obviously you've seen paperwork as well. Curious as to whether any people that attended who have hammered Corney in the past have changed their minds?

Slightly, still got a lot to answer for in relation to communication/mistakes etc...

[Aaron West]

A good start NNN. Some good answers. Obviously you've seen paperwork as well. Curious as to whether any people that attended who have hammered Corney in the past have changed their minds?

 

Got my comments in early before the thread changes to A debate about the length of the cue at half time for a pint and a pie 3 pages in lol.

 

I was very vocal in the summer about what I believed was going on at the club. The protest group was by large unorganised and looking back I wish it was done differently more along the lines of what NNN has done here.

Am still not saying am convinced 100% but I will accept I know :censored: al about running a club and to be fair we have never gone down under Corney I just wish we would at times show a little more ambition.

However with gerrard and shez signing longer term deals and the appointment of moisley I feel we may slowly be making strides in the right direction.

[adamoafc]

Like we have said before there is more meeting to go for discussions on value of the club as despite having 1 and a half hours this didn't even cover everything in the structure / value of the club.

[south east latic]

Thanks to all who went and NNN for organising. Some good answers but also as has been pointed out above, there are still a lot more questions. Let's make this the start and not the end of ongoing dialoguewith the club.

 

Still a lot of answers to get but this sort of openness can only be good for all parties.

 

On the point of home negativity... It's hardly surprising considering how dire we've been for years now but our away support, on the whole, is fantastic and if we can replicate that at home, it can only be a positive.

Edited January 27, 2017 by south east latic

[Nohairdontcare]

Corney is admitting that the top of ambition is survival - yet is surprised or disappointed at fan negativity.

 

I think the both go hand in hand.

 

Give us something to build hope on and fan attitude - for want of a better phrase - will improve rapidly.

[jorvik_latic]

Not a bargain basement budget- there are at least 6 teams below us. So a bottom 8 budget.

[super_blue]

Corney is admitting that the top of ambition is survival - yet is surprised or disappointed at fan negativity.

 

I think the both go hand in hand.

 

Give us something to build hope on and fan attitude - for want of a better phrase - will improve rapidly.

That is why he is trying to sell the club isn't it? He obviously can't finance a promotion push on his own and is being honest about it.

[Frankly Mr Shankly]

However with gerrard and shez signing longer term deals and the appointment of moisley I feel we may slowly be making strides in the right direction.

 

The real sense of moving in the right direction would not be languishing in the :censored:ing relegation places EVERY season. If we're constantly being fed that there are 6-7 teams below us on budget then it's only fair for us supporters to expect a damn sigh better.

 

Ambition and hope is everything to a fan.

[Nohairdontcare]

That is why he is trying to sell the club isn't it? He obviously can't finance a promotion push on his own and is being honest about it.

Fair point - but I feel it's a catch 22 situation as with the club stagnating and support dwindling the product he's trying to sell isn't great.

[Scapegoat]

If the club is being subsidised to the tune of £1.3m per season and we have a bottom 6/8 budget then I think it's unrealistic to expect more.

 

That is a substantial loss - and whilst I am sure that it's tax deductible, it is still a lot of money.

 

If SC is doing that himself then no wonder he wants to sell.

[Scapegoat]

Feels like this first sess was very positive and it's great that there are offers to continue this - this is what I had hoped from having a Trust board member.

 

Great work - there will always be more questions, and some that are never happy - but a good move for me.

[longtimeblue]

The £1,600 average is an interesting fact. Given the 'young uns', means there are likely to be a few on 3k+ a week.

[Lee Sinnott]

The £1,600 average is an interesting fact. Given the 'young uns', means there are likely to be a few on 3k+ a week.

Gerrard, Clarke, Flynn and Green will all be on a decent wedge...

[deyres42]

Nowt on the fire sale in the summer?

[CD's Orange Heels]

If the average wage is what has been stated then the entire squad should cost around 150k per month. If the monthly bills are 300k where is the other 150k going? If we don't pay any rent, I'm assuming if OEC is owned by Brass Bank then they pay the staff who work for OEC. What other things could be costing the club £150k per month any ideas?

[deyres42]

Normal running costs you'd assume.

[singe]

Thank you NNN, and the other guys that attended, and for representing us well ad professionally.

As others have said, let's hope that this is the start of building bridges.

With the statement last night I really hope a start can be made in better communications all round.

EDIT: Good point MAC0AFC about the generosity of time, honesty, information and goodwill from SC, MM and AG.

Edited January 27, 2017 by singe

[MAC0AFC]

A very good start, cheers NNN - of course there are many more questions but really appreciate the openness from the three representatives and the well put questions put to the club.

 

Let's hope for a few more of these in the future.