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The same Dutch who failed to qualify for Euro 2016? Sorry I couldn't resist. I agree with the post though we need more facilities like this. I wonder though how much is funded purely from the Dutch FA coffers and if there is any government contribution?

 

Adding to this point I'm also worried now that with such an abject exit from the tournament momentum will begin to pick up for the introduction of "B" teams into the league.

 

Heh, good point. But I'm pretty sure not many would argue that the Dutch produce a higher proportion individually skillful players from a population of around 17 million than England does from a population of around 53 million.

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In the 25 minute press conference yesterday there was barely any reference to the glaring problems that were there for all to see against Iceland - we were poorly prepared and poorly motivated. The usual platitudes were trotted out about everyone being gutted etc but I felt the press let them totally off the hook by chasing sensationalist click bait headlines about player revolt rather than asking questions about the obvious deficiencies of the squad and its preparation.

 

We're producing better technical players now as the coaching is being addressed over time. If you look at the bulk of our squad on paper you'd have said that we should at least be able to compete with any other team in the tournament. But our obsession is with picking players that the coach feels he can rely on. Ignoring form or fitness.

 

Kante got his French debut in March and is now an integral part of their team. Drinkwater, his club captain and league champion doesn't even make our squad. Instead we go with favourites such as Henderson and Wilshere who have no fitness or form.

 

Sterling has been awful for a long time now but not only is he in the squad, he plays most games. While Townsend, who had a great end to the season, is sat at home.

 

Carroll is another one that hit form late and more importantly is different from any other player and also different from anything most opponents will be used to facing. A plan B maybe?

 

We obsess about the mental side of things but if the players are fit, on form and playing in a formation and style they're used to and comfortable with and suits their strengths then they've got something to fall back on when times get tough.

 

My pick would be Bilic - coached with success in England, his teams can beat teams at the bottom and teams at the top. Good record internationally with Croatia. And he has the sort of no nonsense personality that wouldn't just be a Yes man for the FA. Shearer could work alongside him maybe.

 

Anything but these floppy cocks they keep picking - Hodgson, Capello, McLaren, Eriksson etc.

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I wonder which managers are going to shift from their jobs to England manager (especially ones with no connection). Bilic is on £3M at West Ham, and I think this is before a bit of the money sets in as well. Koeman is on £6M and the top ones £15M.

 

Hodgson was on £3.5M at England.

 

Doesn't matter to me. Get in who the hell they want. We are certainly not producing technically good players. They can't pass to each other from ten yards away. Until we put the money into kids being coached properly (if in doubt...) as Crusoe mentions above, then we won't win anything.

 

We've won one game in the Euros in a knockout game. And that one was on penalties. And that was because the ref ignored the opposition team scoring. And still we think we are doing it right.

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I wonder which managers are going to shift from their jobs to England manager (especially ones with no connection). Bilic is on £3M at West Ham, and I think this is before a bit of the money sets in as well. Koeman is on £6M and the top ones £15M.

 

Hodgson was on £3.5M at England.

 

Doesn't matter to me. Get in who the hell they want. We are certainly not producing technically good players. They can't pass to each other from ten yards away. Until we put the money into kids being coached properly (if in doubt...) as Crusoe mentions above, then we won't win anything.

 

We've won one game in the Euros in a knockout game. And that one was on penalties. And that was because the ref ignored the opposition team scoring. And still we think we are doing it right.

Greece have won the euros. Are we saying our coaching set up is behind theirs?

 

We've got a long way to go in terms of coaching and infrastructure but I don't think that's the reason we've not won a knockout game in 10 years. We haven't had a manager capable of setting us up properly and picking the best team (not players) for years. Fix that and it'd give us half a chance.

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We have failed to produce a world class manager now for well over 30 years probably Bobby Robson would be the only one really to fall into that category. Despite the fact that we have in tat time produced several top class players. Hodgson is a symptom of this problem and has had the job for 4 years by default, just look at some of the names lining up to replace him?

 

Its been 24 years since England last produced a manager who could win their own domestic league (Howard Wilkinson) you have to go back to the mid 80's to see one that won the European cup (Joe Fagan). If the Dutch, the Spanish the Italians, all replace their coach they have a string of successors ready to step up we don't, and with the influx of the likes of Guardiola, Conte, Mourinho all coming in this summer with one or 2 extras and without that many coming through (Eddie Howe being the best young English coach right now) that doesn't appear to be changing anytime soon.

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Heh, good point. But I'm pretty sure not many would argue that the Dutch produce a higher proportion individually skillful players from a population of around 17 million than England does from a population of around 53 million.

I felt a little wrong joking but thought you'd see the humour in it. But I agree and would also add over the next 50 years if both countries carry on with their respective attitudes then Holland are likely to reach more tournaments/semis and finals than what England will.

 

Agree with the sentiments of others though. We need our next manager to not be a yes man/there to pick up a cheque (or both).

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I felt a little wrong joking but thought you'd see the humour in it. But I agree and would also add over the next 50 years if both countries carry on with their respective attitudes then Holland are likely to reach more tournaments/semis and finals than what England will.

 

Agree with the sentiments of others though. We need our next manager to not be a yes man/there to pick up a cheque (or both).

 

No worries, I did see the humour, sorry if that didn't come through.

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  • 3 weeks later...

Made up for him, long overdue.

Anyone but IMO, we should have pushed the boat out and gone for a top quality coach/manager, there is so much quality in Englands best 11 they just need a decent man in charge. If Allardyce gets it we could see Andy Carroll leading the line for England, god forbid.

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Anyone but IMO, we should have pushed the boat out and gone for a top quality coach/manager, there is so much quality in Englands best 11 they just need a decent man in charge. If Allardyce gets it we could see Andy Carroll leading the line for England, god forbid.

The strikers at the euros barely won one header between them. Wingers and crossing is such an important part of English football but it's been forgotten for the sake of this possession obsession. We all loved Matt Smith's performance against Liverpool! If Carroll is in better form than other England strikers then he would deserve his place.

 

We've tried decorated foreign coaches, paid them a fortune and they've wasted a generation of good players. What we need is a team that is well motivated, well organised and well prepared. Big Sam offers all that potentially. Worth a go.

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Anyone but IMO, we should have pushed the boat out and gone for a top quality coach/manager, there is so much quality in Englands best 11 they just need a decent man in charge. If Allardyce gets it we could see Andy Carroll leading the line for England, god forbid.

I totally agree-it is a panic move by the FA. Woy lost it and picked a team that was totally lacking in confidence and then put square pegs in round holes.

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We've tried top managers in the past and the experiment has failed. Both Ericsson and Capello came with impeccable domestic records and failed. As for the assumption that Carroll will be brought in, so what....in France, England's front line was a talented bunch but disorganised.....but don't forget that Sunderland successfully played with that big, 5'7" lump called Defoe up front. Allardyce will not massage ego's......excellent choice for me.

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If you think there is quality in England's starting eleven then you are deluded. They can't pass.

 

As someone on the BBC put it, you can't polish a turd, but you can roll it in glitter.

 

The bigger problems of our game start a long way before Allardyce gets his hands on the players. We'll all be in our graves before England win (a tournament that matters) again. So appointments of managers are frankly irrelevant.

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If you think there is quality in England's starting eleven then you are deluded. They can't pass.

 

As someone on the BBC put it, you can't polish a turd, but you can roll it in glitter.

 

The bigger problems of our game start a long way before Allardyce gets his hands on the players. We'll all be in our graves before England win (a tournament that matters) again. So appointments of managers are frankly irrelevant.

I partially agree with you. My biggest gripe, and it's not a new viewpoint, is we have had too many managers who play the 11 best players in their respective positions and hope they gel instead of picking a team. Recent world cup winners include Brazil who had Dunga and France who had Deschamps. Both were team players unlike England for many years who tried and failed to get Lamphead and Gerrard to play together. I'd like to think that Allardyce will go for a team instead of 11 names. Edited by mikejh45
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I just don't see what Big Sam offers. The things that are being held up as positives would all have been said about Roy before he took over, except that Roy had experience abroad and in international football as well.

 

My biggest concerns are that he won't have the respect of the players and that his appointment will lead to the type of football that will do nothing to persuade those fans who have given up on the national team to return.

 

I fully understand those who say that if the players don't respect him them bin them off and pick some that will. It's not that straightforward though. Whilst there are players who are doing well in the Premier League, it is neigh on impossible for a manager to overlook them for England as they will be castigated for it and very quickly run out of the job.

 

If Hodgson had refused to take the likes of Kane and Alli to the Euros he would have been slated. The truth is, however, that we played much better as a team earlier on in qualifying when we didn't have any 'big name' players. The form of those two along with the likes of Dier, Vardy etc. towards the back end of last season meant he had to try an shoehorn them in and a 45 min performance in Berlin where it seemed to click just made that worse. A few days later against Holland, we tried to play the same or similar formation as we'd played against Germany and it failed miserably. The media had already decided that was what they wanted to see.

 

Don't get me wrong here, I am certainly not removing the blame from Hodgson who was found desperately lacking when it mattered in France.

 

I really wonder what the players are going to think when they are being coached by Klopp, Mourinho, Pochettino, Guardiola, Wenger etc on a daily basis and then turn up at St George's Park and have to listen to Big Sam tell them how it should be done.

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The media & tournament football fans make far too big a deal about the England team and the managers job.

 

The players get some of the best coaching in the world week in, week out and know exactly what to do.

 

The job of the England manager should be to simply pick a squad, organise them & motivate them - it should be the easiest top level job in English football, far easier than managing a club.

 

We should do what, eg, the Italians seem to do - give managers (preferably English) one tournament and if he does well he can keep it if he wants to, if not onto the next obvious candidate... Stop making it out to be something it's not by "scouring the world" for the best managers....

 

All this about building systems & style of play right through from u-18's and u-21's is bollocks too as is taking the likes of Rashford to u-21 tournaments rather than the Euro's as Pearce bangs on about. They play for their clubs in their systems 95% of the time, and often change clubs - they'll never get particularly familiar with one England style of play. Kids like Rashford might only be this good for one tournament and have an element of surprise - we must always take one or two like this in my opinion.

 

Tournaments are a lottery - pick what you think is the best squad, play to it's strengths, get the tactics & motivation right (nobody can say that Allardyce is lacking here) and our turn will one day come...

 

If he does well at the World Cup offer him another two years, if he doesn't, next.... Pardew, Bruce, Howe, Mourinho, Benitez, whoever. Stop making such a big deal of it all....

Edited by HarryBosch
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If you think there is quality in England's starting eleven then you are deluded. They can't pass.

 

As someone on the BBC put it, you can't polish a turd, but you can roll it in glitter.

 

The bigger problems of our game start a long way before Allardyce gets his hands on the players. We'll all be in our graves before England win (a tournament that matters) again. So appointments of managers are frankly irrelevant.

 

I think their is quality in England's starting eleven if they can't pass just look at the possession stats in the last euros England dominated the ball in all 4 games we've gone too far the other way in this respect, we just didn't covert it into enough reasonable chances coupled with conceding a few sloppy goals meant we massively underachieved again.

 

What I don't get is that how we played so well in the previous 2 years winning 10 out of 10 qualifiers and getting notable wins against the likes of France and Germany we then procede to get to the euros pick Jack Wilshire who was unfit and the form English midfielder in the England last season Drinkwater doesn't even get picked.

 

Rooney in midfield was again stupid the fact that hes England's all time leading scorer, and was very effective in the last year playing just behind Kane for England, not to mention playing him in midfield contributed to his club manager getting sacked before the tournament should really have give Hodgson a few rather big clues as to where he should play.

 

Also playing a formation which the players clearly looked uncomfortable with didn't help. If the majority of players play every week in a 4-2-3-1 and look very good at doing so then it really shouldn't be too difficult to decide what formation to play.

 

Alladyce is a good man manager and the players will respect him that I have no doubt, however failures at Newcastle and unpopularity at West Ham plus no major trophies will be held against him he hasn't done it at the very top (when was the last English manager who did) He's getting this more based on the fact hes the best of a bad bunch where other nations will be able to pick a world class manager. England haven't produced one in a generation.

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