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Further info on winding up petition process


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Someone mentioned yesterday that they were told that club's bank account was frozen, there may be some truth in this. I've done some digging and it looks like it is standard practice when a winding up petition is published - http://www.realbusinessrescue.co.uk/received-a-petition/frozen-bank-accounts 

 

Why Banks Freeze Accounts of Companies during Winding up Petitions

One of the reasons banks freeze bank accounts during insolvency proceedings is because that is the law. However, most bankers are not so altruistic. The bottom line is that the bank does not want to be held responsible for any debts accrued during that time. Since an insolvent company is legally obligated to cease all financial transactions, a bank could (and often is!) held responsible for any of the insolvent company’s debts during that time.

 

 

Once a WUP is advertised in the Gazette, the process has started and has to be followed through, you can't just say that it's paid and have done with it. The notice in the Gazette is usually a last resort after sending out a High Court claim and being given 21 days to resolve it. The statement on the OS stated "We are expecting a formal retraction from HMRC in the next edition of the London Gazette". It's been nearly 2 weeks now and there's no retraction. 

 

Our court hearing is on 8th May - https://www.thegazette.co.uk/notice/2739960

 

Although we've been told that the HMRC bill has been paid, any other creditors can piggy back on to this process and see it through to a winding up order. This is a worry to me (Necarcu? BTW - are registered football agents (Alan Middleton) allowed to loan money to a football club? Surely a conflict of interests?).

 

There have been recent cases very similar to ours, most recently Leyton Orient. Their case has been adjourned until 12th June and they're preparing for a phoenix club.

 

https://www.theguardian.com/football/2017/mar/01/leyton-orient-served-winding-up-order-over-unpaid-tax-bills 

https://www.theguardian.com/football/blog/2017/mar/20/leyton-orient-court-winding-up-petition-adjourned-fans

 

Hopefully, there's nothing to worry *too* much about but alarm bells are ringing for me as a fan at the moment.

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6 minutes ago, the_mighty_bosh said:

If what's happening with us is similar to what's happening to Leyton Orient then I'm worried.

 

Not sure how we could agree a 2-and-a-half year deal with Clarke if this is hanging over us though.

Not to mention the installation of the perimeter advertising boards.

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I think has been stated that the bill has been paid.  This is now done with. It will be set aside immediately at hearing if it has been paid with no further action. 

 

Why are are you comparing our circumstances with Leyton Orient.  Just because we have both had winding up orders issued does not mean we are in the same boat.   Scare mongering.

 

 

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1 minute ago, kowenicki said:

I think has been stated that the bill has been paid.  This is now done with. It will be set aside immediately at hearing if it has been paid with no further action. 

 

Why are are you comparing our circumstances with Leyton Orient.  Just because we have both had winding up orders issued does not mean we are in the same boat.   Scare mongering.

 

 

With letting ourselves get to the point where a WUP has been issued (we're given plenty of notice to sort this), it's not just the HMRC debt which can be taken into account.

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I do find it annoying when people imply, on the back of Corney doing the same, that it is an acceptable way of doing business to be getting to this position before paying bills.  It's not.  No well-run business conducts itself this way.  So we're either run by a bunch of fucking idiots who haven't a clue what they're doing or we're in the shit.  Or both.

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10 minutes ago, Stevie_J said:

I do find it annoying when people imply, on the back of Corney doing the same, that it is an acceptable way of doing business to be getting to this position before paying bills.  It's not.  No well-run business conducts itself this way.  So we're either run by a bunch of fucking idiots who haven't a clue what they're doing or we're in the shit.  Or both.

But you still give a temporary ban when someone calls another poster a Scrote who said it was acceptable

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6 hours ago, jorvik_latic said:

With letting ourselves get to the point where a WUP has been issued (we're given plenty of notice to sort this), it's not just the HMRC debt which can be taken into account.

Which other debts? What do you know? 

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2 hours ago, underdog said:

I don't have the brain capacity for business, but I will say this if people like Jorvik are alarmed, then we need as fans to be listening

 

 

Why? What does he do, what does he know? I'm not being antagonistic. I'm genuinely interested. Having once issued a winding up petition against someone I know how very, very easy it is. 

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12 minutes ago, kowenicki said:

Only if they gave a grievance. Why would a creditor with no legitimate grievance jump on it? 

If an organisation only pays the tax at the last second it's a fair guess that they aren't up to date with everyone else, wouldn't you think? We know we've royally pissed other clubs off with late payments.

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12 minutes ago, kowenicki said:

Why? What does he do, what does he know? I'm not being antagonistic. I'm genuinely interested. Having once issued a winding up petition against someone I know how very, very easy it is. 

With your depth of knowledge do the HMRC issue winding up petitions very, very easily? Odds are if we are paying our tax bill late those who are less authoritative and scrupulous are probably made to wait, I wouldn't of thought Rochdale are the only team we've pissed off through late payment.

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12 minutes ago, kowenicki said:

Why? What does he do, what does he know? I'm not being antagonistic. I'm genuinely interested. Having once issued a winding up petition against someone I know how very, very easy it is. 

I don't remember his official tittle but he works in this sector and has training.

 

Know the person he is too he is not a scaremonger  but he is quite analytical and logical when we are in meetings discussing these issues where I am more to be "wtf... And is this normal business practice". Jorvik is one of serval inteh trust board who have the brain capacity, Leeslover is another who is brilliant and insightful on how we should state things/when to do it where as I'm all...."let's get it out there now..."I'm sure he is a devil on a chess board. 

 

all seem to have various expertise from work, training,running their own companies to seeing it all at the club before and when we should be panicked to when we shouldn't....old heads. And all

 

like I said...whoosh....over my head and I'm sure Jorvik will come on an explain more in his own rational logical way.

 

 

 

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34 minutes ago, kowenicki said:

Which other debts? What do you know? 

Think Jorvik may have put in the original post the Necaru one? And a possible conflict of interest with a possible owner of that business too

 

Edited by underdog
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When we failed to pay Rochdale on time after the game at Spotland, we were told that they would have to wait because the priority was to pay HMRC. It follows logically that if we have subsequently missed a payment to HMRC then there must be other creditors we had put further down our priorities list.

 

It is possible that they would have then been paid at the same time or shortly after we apparently made the payment to HMRC.

 

The suggestion that we have other creditors to whom payments are overdue, however, doesn't feel farfetched.

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59 minutes ago, leeslover said:

If an organisation only pays the tax at the last second it's a fair guess that they aren't up to date with everyone else, wouldn't you think? We know we've royally pissed other clubs off with late payments.

I don't know. No idea. I don't just guess or make stuff up.  That is all I'm saying. 

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51 minutes ago, yarddog73 said:

With your depth of knowledge do the HMRC issue winding up petitions very, very easily? Odds are if we are paying our tax bill late those who are less authoritative and scrupulous are probably made to wait, I wouldn't of thought Rochdale are the only team we've pissed off through late payment.

No they issue proceedings when you are late paying. But they don't mess about or give much time. These days they are on it if you are late.  Not sure what that had to do with what I was saying.  I was asking what these other debts that are overdue are who can tag on to the petition. Specifically. 

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1 hour ago, kowenicki said:

Which other debts? What do you know? 

Just Necarcu and Brass Bank that I know of as they are secured against the club, I would imagine there are other unsecured creditors too. It's not a stretch to think that if we haven't paid THE most important creditor in a timely manner then others will be a lower priority. 

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21 minutes ago, kowenicki said:

No they issue proceedings when you are late paying. But they don't mess about or give much time. These days they are on it if you are late.  

They give you plenty of time. The accountants will be aware of the figures due way before the date. Then there are the deadlines. Then HMRC have to apply to the courts for a claim which gives the club 21 days to pay. All of these dates missed for a supposed £20k. 

 

Are you you telling me this is normal and not to be worried?

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7 hours ago, jorvik_latic said:

They give you plenty of time. The accountants will be aware of the figures due way before the date. Then there are the deadlines. Then HMRC have to apply to the courts for a claim which gives the club 21 days to pay. All of these dates missed for a supposed £20k. 

 

Are you you telling me this is normal and not to be worried?

The revenue do give you plenty of time but they don't hang about if you pass their deadline. 

 

I'm not telling you it is normal. But I'm also not worried or assuming there are a line of other creditors ready to show up at the hearing to force the wind up through. 

Edited by kowenicki
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