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Further info on winding up petition process


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1 hour ago, kowenicki said:

The revenue do give you plenty of time but they don't hang about if you pass their deadline. 

 

I'm not telling you it is normal. But I'm also not worried or assuming there are a line of other creditors ready to show up at the hearing to force the wind up through. 

3 weeks after a deadline is plenty of time. 

 

I didn't say the creditors were waiting to jump on, I just explained that they could and that it was a worry to me. 

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19 minutes ago, jorvik_latic said:

3 weeks after a deadline is plenty of time. 

 

I didn't say the creditors were waiting to jump on, I just explained that they could and that it was a worry to me. 

But any creditor can commence their own wind up petition or, if more 'trivial', can take us to small claims etc. at any time.  It isn't expensive or difficult to do either. So perhaps you should be permanently worried?

 

Not sure why this current issue would increase you angst about other creditors.  But you have clarified it is merely the fact that someone could jump on it that troubles you, not that it is likely or imminent due to information you have knowledge of. So I'm good. 

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It's a concern for me if Jorvik says so.

 

Plus the recent monthly pattern.

 

hmrc pre-Xmas, embargo up to 1st Jan, FA/EFL handout to all league one clubs in Jan, loan taken out in feb with a director of that company having other football interests for the everyday running of the club, season ticket/we need you monies in by 1st April, WUP order to sort out is it by may?

 

and the Trust still haven't got full access to the finances, although that may have moved on since our early march meeting.

 

if Corney is a businessman and he full admits we are loss making, how is he bank rolling us? There are rumours to say he's skint, recent divorce etc...what is his other business or what is he selling off/pawning so to speak?

 

its vicious spiralling downward circle in my mind. With no end to break it.

 

more questions than answers and I'm not of the mind to ask those financial questions. 

 

I cant ant stress enough that teh finances are a serious concern to all on the Trust board.

 

if anyone with any additional knowledge can shed any light on what Jorvik has found out or add anymore to the process we believe has swung into action then please, get typing on this thread.

 

cheers

 

 

 

 

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2 minutes ago, underdog said:

It's a concern for me if Jorvik says so.

 

Plus the recent monthly pattern.

 

hmrc pre-Xmas, embargo up to 1st Jan, FA/EFL handout to all league one clubs in Jan, loan taken out in feb with a director of that company having other football interests for the everyday running of the club, season ticket/we need you monies in by 1st April, WUP order to sort out is it by may?

 

and the Trust still haven't got full access to the finances, although that may have moved on since our early march meeting.

 

if Corney is a businessman and he full admits we are loss making, how is he bank rolling us? There are rumours to say he's skint, recent divorce etc...what is his other business or what is he selling off/pawning so to speak?

 

its vicious spiralling downward circle in my mind. With no end to break it.

 

more questions than answers and I'm not of the mind to ask those financial questions. 

 

I cant ant stress enough that teh finances are a serious concern to all on the Trust board.

 

if anyone with any additional knowledge can shed any light on what Jorvik has found out or add anymore to the process we believe has swung into action then please, get typing on this thread.

 

cheers

 

 

 

 

I don't understand why people are getting in a tizz about this. In the interest of balance, set against all the reasons to be worried quoted by underdog (1) we are putting in perimeter boards (2) the skipper has just signed a 2.5 year deal (3) the HMRC debt has been settled.

 

We all know cash flow is a problem, on our gates how could it not be? At least the Sheff.Utd, Bolton, Fleetwood games will help, but it's a hand to mouth existence. There is no point in speculating about unknown creditors, current or future. Let's devote our energies to staying in L1 for another season (yay!).

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Add to O4Us points that we received significant income from player and manager sales in the period and had next to no wage bill  over the Summer and the picture becomes more worrying.

 

Or ask why we are borrowing off an associate of Stephen Vaughan from his Chester FC days. Why not our own bank?

Edited by leeslover
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On 22/11/2016 at 0:25 PM, boundaryblue80 said:

Dec 2015 - Club struggles to pay players

 

Dec 2015 - Club borrows £241k from Necarcu Ltd

 

Mar 2016 - Club arranges get rich quick scheme with ST offer (presumably to pay Necarcu Ltd back)

 

Mar 2016 - Club sees Latics win 3 games which reduces ST's by £150 each (the gamble backfired)

 

May 2016 - Club reduces wage bill to complete minimum for 2 months of close season by reducing playing staff to 5 players

 

June 2016 - Club faces winding up order but settles this to avoid any further action

 

July 2016 - Nov 2106 - Club appoints rookie manager & cobbles together a side. Club sees barely any more ST's bought due to March offer while pay on the day is so poor the club reduce the prices to £15.

 

Nov 2016 - Transfer Embargo on club

 

-----------------------------------------------------

 

It's not hard to join the dots above.

 

I don't think it's hard to see what happens next. The club isn't being sold. Not until houses are built all behind the Chaddy, over Little Wembley and wherever else they can fit them. The monies will finish off the OEC. Then they will be able to command the extortionate (if the £24m figure is true...which I've heard from a few people I would expect to know or have a good idea of) amount for the club, land and stand. So in the meantime, this austerity continues to the breaking point. It feels closer and closer with each chapter from Corneys book.

 

The short term plan now (if you can call this a plan) is that we either have to beat Lincoln and pull a top side in the Cup (get lucky again basically.) Or we have to go borrowing from Necarcu Ltd or whoever else again. The problem with borrowing is that the ever decreasing circle has shrank to almost nothing. We have no players as saleable assets, we have no sell-on clauses left coz we've cashed them in, we have barely any pay on the day attendees. We might be able to do another Season Ticket get-rich quick scheme in the new year......but you see where this goes.....

 

We have a gambler...a proper chancer in charge of us. And he's won a couple of Liverpool ties to stave the wolf from the door, dodging bullets along the way. To the point there's virtually nothing left. The only way Corney could save himself any more angst from Latics fans is he turns the tables and points the gun squarely at Blitz, Gazal and the whole Brassbank set up. It is these people who have the keys to the land. They will say OAFC is nothing to do with them and OEC is everything to the project before they can sell it for the amount they are looking for. Where will OAFC be by then???

 

 

I wrote the above back in November when we had the transfer embargo. Underdog (above) and the Trust have continued to join the dots covering Dec 2016-Mar 2017. It will continue further.

 

Back in 2002 people we saying that SAFE shouldn't exist any longer as Chris Moore had saved us. People mocking efforts to sit down in the boardroom and talk finances, future plans for the club etc. Such efforts were fruitless. Disaster came not long after. The current situation feels very similar. Although this time, it isn't a crash bang wallop that Moore served up, more a slow bleed.

 

I hope the Trust continue to ask the questions they are doing. Showing the necessary concern. They've been accused in the past of being too passive. Now that serious questions are being asked and reported back (ala the scoreboard fund)...some want to discourage this. I can't understand that. Especially when there's Stephen Vaughan involved in the background.

 

Edited by boundaryblue80
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1 hour ago, leeslover said:

Add to O4Us points that we received significant income from player and manager sales in the period and had next to no wage bill  over the Summer and the picture becomes more worrying.

 

Or ask why we are borrowing off an associate of Stephen Vaughan from his Chester FC days. Why not our own bank?

possibley a more favourable if any interest rate and terms to that offered by our bank 

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54 minutes ago, boundaryblue80 said:

Especially when there's Stephen Vaughan involved in the background.

 

 

3 minutes ago, Magister said:

 

..or possibly the bank won't give us a loan and we have had to go to pay day log book money lenders ...

More dots waiting to be joined?

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5 hours ago, underdog said:

It's a concern for me if Jorvik says so.

 

Plus the recent monthly pattern.

 

hmrc pre-Xmas, embargo up to 1st Jan, FA/EFL handout to all league one clubs in Jan, loan taken out in feb with a director of that company having other football interests for the everyday running of the club, season ticket/we need you monies in by 1st April, WUP order to sort out is it by may?

 

and the Trust still haven't got full access to the finances, although that may have moved on since our early march meeting.

 

if Corney is a businessman and he full admits we are loss making, how is he bank rolling us? There are rumours to say he's skint, recent divorce etc...what is his other business or what is he selling off/pawning so to speak?

 

its vicious spiralling downward circle in my mind. With no end to break it.

 

more questions than answers and I'm not of the mind to ask those financial questions. 

 

I cant ant stress enough that teh finances are a serious concern to all on the Trust board.

 

if anyone with any additional knowledge can shed any light on what Jorvik has found out or add anymore to the process we believe has swung into action then please, get typing on this thread.

 

cheers

 

 

 

 

With respect arent you on the trust? You should be a bit more analytical in your thinking than its a concern if Jorvik says so. But in any event, Jorvik has already said all he is doing is confirming what has always been the case. Which is that in ANY wind up petition, other creditors can tag on. Why are you suddenly panicking in light of information that changed nothing and has always been the case. 

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31 minutes ago, kowenicki said:

With respect arent you on the trust? You should be a bit more analytical in your thinking than its a concern if Jorvik says so. But in any event, Jorvik has already said all he is doing is confirming what has always been the case. Which is that in ANY wind up petition, other creditors can tag on. Why are you suddenly panicking in light of information that changed nothing and has always been the case. 

It's because in the two years I have served on yeah trust board. This is the most serious it has been.

 

like I said I don't have the area of expertise but when say all the directors on the trust are concerned of our current plight then you listen.

 

its all about opinions and I suppose our concern level might be different to another group/fan

 

we are making you all aware please be mindful of this

 

thanks

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17 minutes ago, underdog said:

It's because in the two years I have served on yeah trust board. This is the most serious it has been.

 

like I said I don't have the area of expertise but when say all the directors on the trust are concerned of our current plight then you listen.

 

its all about opinions and I suppose our concern level might be different to another group/fan

 

we are making you all aware please be mindful of this

 

thanks

Making me aware of what? 

 

The point is are they concerned because they know something or because they don't. If they don't then they should try and find out and not start rumours or get involved in conjecture on a forum. 

 

 

Edited by kowenicki
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9 minutes ago, kowenicki said:

Making me aware of what? 

 

The point is are they concerned because they know something or because they don't. If they don't then they should try and find out and not start rumours or get involved in conjecture on a forum. 

 

 

It's not a rumour. We have been served a winding up petition. For a reported £20k

 

This is just after we have received our FL solidarity payments of thousands and thousands of pounds, this is a fact. Just after we've taken out another Necarcu loan, this is a fact. The club issued a statement that it was a 'mistake' and that HMRC would issue a formal retraction in the next issue of the Gazette, this is a fact. HMRC haven't issued a formal retraction, this is a fact.

 

I'm not just explaining the WUP process, I'm worried about what's going on with our finances.

 

You seem very intent on playing this down for some reason?

 

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48 minutes ago, kowenicki said:

Making me aware of what? 

 

The point is are they concerned because they know something or because they don't. If they don't then they should try and find out and not start rumours or get involved in conjecture on a forum. 

 

 

Hear, hear !

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55 minutes ago, kowenicki said:

Making me aware of what? 

 

The point is are they concerned because they know something or because they don't. If they don't then they should try and find out and not start rumours or get involved in conjecture on a forum. 

 

 

We're concerned because we shouldn't even have to try to find out but we still can't.

 

When exactly would you expect us to raise concerns? We're now where Orient were a few months ago. They paid their tax bill. Shall we wait until the bailiffs lock the gates, or we have to choose between settling another petition or paying Necarcu?

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I've always been negative towards Corney, well for 4 or 5 years at least. Will has always shot me down not just on here but in person and has defended the club to the hilt. 

 

He isn't an optimist, nor a pessimist. He Is a realist who considers facts before speaking. If he is speaking there is a reason he is doing so and a genuine reason to be concerned. 

 

Such a message is hard to deliver in the written form

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40 minutes ago, jorvik_latic said:

It's not a rumour. We have been served a winding up petition. For a reported £20k

 

This is just after we have received our FL solidarity payments of thousands and thousands of pounds, this is a fact. Just after we've taken out another Necarcu loan, this is a fact. The club issued a statement that it was a 'mistake' and that HMRC would issue a formal retraction in the next issue of the Gazette, this is a fact. HMRC haven't issued a formal retraction, this is a fact.

 

I'm not just explaining the WUP process, I'm worried about what's going on with our finances.

 

You seem very intent on playing this down for some reason?

 

Those aren't new facts.   As senior reps of the trust why don't you ask questions, demand a meeting. Instead of winding up a forum. 

 

I'm not intent on playing down "for some reason".., there you go again with your inferred Machiavellian conspiracy talk.  I am struggling to know why you would rather peddle some agenda on a forum than try, try and try again to engage with the club.  

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21 minutes ago, philliggi said:

I've always been negative towards Corney, well for 4 or 5 years at least. Will has always shot me down not just on here but in person and has defended the club to the hilt. 

 

He isn't an optimist, nor a pessimist. He Is a realist who considers facts before speaking. If he is speaking there is a reason he is doing so and a genuine reason to be concerned. 

 

Such a message is hard to deliver in the written form

Phill .....is this a cryptic message ....who is Will?

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24 minutes ago, leeslover said:

We're concerned because we shouldn't even have to try to find out but we still can't.

 

When exactly would you expect us to raise concerns? We're now where Orient were a few months ago. They paid their tax bill. Shall we wait until the bailiffs lock the gates, or we have to choose between settling another petition or paying Necarcu?

Try try and try again. Demand a meeting. Better that than just saying stuff on a forum. Am I wrong? 

Edited by kowenicki
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Just now, kowenicki said:

Those aren't new facts.   As senior reps of the trust why don't you ask questions, demand a meeting. Instead of winding up a forum. 

 

I'm not intent on playing down "for some reason".., there you go again with your inferred Machiavellian conspiracy talk.  I am struggling to know why you would rather peddle some agenda on a forum than try, try and try again to engage with the club. 

 

How am I being deceptive or scheming?? You do seem very intent on playing it down, I was wondering why. 

 

I'm not peddling an agenda. I'm raising concerns. People have moaned that the Trust have stayed silent on things, that's because people have been trying to work with the club and it hasn't got to this point before. Would you rather everyone stayed quiet until it was too late? We've been served a WUP which is the first step of liquidation! We've been told it's ok by the club but there's been no formal retraction. Chris Moore told everyone that it was ok in the weeks leading up to admin. In fact.....

 

"In the background, though, chaos was en­suing. In March this year Moore resigned as chairman, taking up the title of honorary president while adamant that he wasn’t about to walk away. Events became even more farcical when two more directors resigned and chief executive Alan Hardy was suspended following a disagreement, leaving the club with no chairman, no chief exec and just two board members. As the cash flow dwindled fans were encouraged to purchase next year’s sea­son tickets at a discount before the current one ended." - http://www.wsc.co.uk/the-archive/30-Clubs/2432-out-of-time

 

Sound a bit familiar?

 

 

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In months and years gone by, many on here have commented that the Trust Directors say nothing about events at the football club and  have watched on silently as the club lurches from crisis to crisis.

 

Given that they chose, on the whole, not to comment openly on here about the turbulent events of recent seasons, despite much consternation on this board, the fact that they have now chosen to alter that stance now appears failry significant to me. 

i.e.  they are probably telling us that they think the current situation is worse than it has been in recent seasons and they are worried enough about it to run the risk of damaging their relationship with the club, in order to make the fans aware of the gravity of the situation, as they see it.

 

No doubt they are particularly upset  about the way they have been treated over the scoreboard fund, but I don't believe this is their only cause for concern - the winding up order, their rep on the board being misinformed about board meeting times and excluded from the boardroom on matchdays, the  mysterious loan etc. There may well be other things that aren't yet in the public domain that they don't feel able to talk about.

 

I've no idea how bad the finaincial situation at the club is. It may  be no worse than it has been for several years and we are just more aware these days, through social media etc,  of some of things that have always been going on behind the scenes at a struggling football club. That is certainly the message the club appears to be putting out.

 

But I do think it's naive to dismiss the sudden change in approach by Trust Directors, in terms of what they are willing to say on here, as scaremongering or scheming. They've had ample opportunity over the past several years to do that, if that was their motivation.

 

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23 minutes ago, jorvik_latic said:

 

How am I being deceptive or scheming?? You do seem very intent on playing it down, I was wondering why. 

 

I'm not peddling an agenda. I'm raising concerns. People have moaned that the Trust have stayed silent on things, that's because people have been trying to work with the club and it hasn't got to this point before. Would you rather everyone stayed quiet until it was too late? We've been served a WUP which is the first step of liquidation! We've been told it's ok by the club but there's been no formal retraction. Chris Moore told everyone that it was ok in the weeks leading up to admin. In fact.....

 

"In the background, though, chaos was en­suing. In March this year Moore resigned as chairman, taking up the title of honorary president while adamant that he wasn’t about to walk away. Events became even more farcical when two more directors resigned and chief executive Alan Hardy was suspended following a disagreement, leaving the club with no chairman, no chief exec and just two board members. As the cash flow dwindled fans were encouraged to purchase next year’s sea­son tickets at a discount before the current one ended." - http://www.wsc.co.uk/the-archive/30-Clubs/2432-out-of-time

 

Sound a bit familiar?

 

 

 

So if someone says things are ok then they definitely aren't.  Ok... "I am the messiah!"

 

A WUP can be the first step toward liquidation. Far more commonly, as you surely well know, it's a very big stick to make a company cough up. 

 

Look, If you genuinely believe what you say then the company would be trading illegally and you should report it. If the company is taking monies in full knowledge of impending liquidation and is therefore never going to be able to fulfil the order then that is fraudulent. 

 

I keep asking.  Am I wrong in anything I say here? 

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10 minutes ago, kowenicki said:

 

So if someone says things are ok then they definitely aren't.  Ok... "I am the messiah!"

 

A WUP can be the first step toward liquidation. Far more commonly, as you surely well know, it's a very big stick to make a company cough up. 

 

Look, If you genuinely believe what you say then the company would be trading illegally and you should report it. If the company is taking monies in full knowledge of impending liquidation and is therefore never going to be able to fulfil the order then that is fraudulent. 

 

I keep asking.  Am I wrong in anything I say here? 

 

You haven't said anything 

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7 minutes ago, kowenicki said:

 

So if someone says things are ok then they definitely aren't.  Ok... "I am the messiah!"

 

A WUP can be the first step toward liquidation. Far more commonly, as you surely well know, it's a very big stick to make a company cough up. 

 

Look, If you genuinely believe what you say then the company would be trading illegally and you should report it. If the company is taking monies in full knowledge of impending liquidation and is therefore never going to be able to fulfil the order then that is fraudulent. 

 

I keep asking.  Am I wrong in anything I say here? 

I didn't say that there is impending liquidation, just that a process has started.

 

I'm worried about finances, you're not. Let's leave it there.

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