Crusoe Posted April 26, 2017 Share Posted April 26, 2017 Yes, I'm struggling to see how Labour making a worse mess of the NHS in one area, while the entire NHS is in a mess anyway, is somehow a plus point for the Tories. Put it another way, if your neighbour's house burns down whilst yours is only smouldering, it hardly speaks volumes for either of your fire safety precautions. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChaddySmoker Posted April 26, 2017 Share Posted April 26, 2017 (edited) On 25/04/2017 at 10:30 AM, Magister said: "vicar's daughter in flat shoes" ...... and you say you want informed reasoned intelligent debate.? You jump on the 1 flippant point in my post by way of your insistence of dumbing down the debate. Is that because there is a total lack of policies from the lady? So far seen only the grammar school one. Yes so did I! Edited April 26, 2017 by ChaddySmoker Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
disjointed Posted April 26, 2017 Share Posted April 26, 2017 32 minutes ago, ChaddySmoker said: You jump on the 1 flippant point in my post by way of your insistence of dumbing down the debate. Is that because there is a total lack of policies from the lady? So far seen only the grammar school one. Yes so did I! Saw nothing wrong in your "vicars daughter in flat shoes" putting facts in can only be a good thing surely. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
leeslover Posted April 26, 2017 Share Posted April 26, 2017 On Monday, April 24, 2017 at 5:39 PM, Crusoe said: There's an interesting debate in this. Are politicians supposed to reflect "the will of the majority" of the voting public, come what may? Are they supposed to do what's best for the country regardless of what the public clamours for? And if so, how do they know what that is - policy by principles? Policy by technocracy? Feels like we've tried most of these and none really worked. Personally I liked the theoretical idea of Burkean representation - - particularly in an era of media monopolies, fake news and other factors that lead me to the (admittedly arrogant) view that an awful lot of people don't know or don't think hard about what's best for everyone. (Including me, FWIW.) But of course that's also just a form of elitism - we, your rulers and betters, know best, so we'll do your thinking for you, proles. How do you balance principle and populist pragmatism? This is an age old debate and one I've given a lot of thought to. If the, "Important Poll," thread continues to be about how Chris Taylor has played I'm going to go full Plato and assume complete power as the ranking philosopher. A no vote cannot be trusted. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
leeslover Posted April 28, 2017 Share Posted April 28, 2017 Football claims it's first casualty. Northampton MP was involved in some dodgy loan deal at the club. Everyone hates him but he was determined to stand again so the local party arranged the selection meeting in a corporate room at Sixfields. Hint taken. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChaddySmoker Posted April 28, 2017 Share Posted April 28, 2017 13 minutes ago, leeslover said: Football claims it's first casualty. Northampton MP was involved in some dodgy loan deal at the club. Everyone hates him but he was determined to stand again so the local party arranged the selection meeting in a corporate room at Sixfields. Hint taken. From which party was he? Is it the party with policies or the one which call themselves 'strong and stable' every 18 seconds? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
leeslover Posted April 28, 2017 Share Posted April 28, 2017 1 hour ago, ChaddySmoker said: From which party was he? Is it the party with policies or the one which call themselves 'strong and stable' every 18 seconds? Good point well made Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest davidshaw Posted April 29, 2017 Share Posted April 29, 2017 Been a Labour voter since I`ve been old enough to vote. Will not, however, vote for them now with the clown in charge of what has become a shambolic mess of a party. Corbyn is not a leader - full stop. That said, my basic values won't allow me to vote for the Tories and I can never forgive the Lib Dems for their tuition fees lies. For the first time ever - probably won't vote. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChaddySmoker Posted April 30, 2017 Share Posted April 30, 2017 8 hours ago, davidshaw said: Been a Labour voter since I`ve been old enough to vote. Will not, however, vote for them now with the clown in charge of what has become a shambolic mess of a party. Corbyn is not a leader - full stop. That said, my basic values won't allow me to vote for the Tories and I can never forgive the Lib Dems for their tuition fees lies. For the first time ever - probably won't vote. So realistically that will become a vote for the lady in flat shoes with no policies then. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blueatheart Posted April 30, 2017 Share Posted April 30, 2017 5 hours ago, ChaddySmoker said: So realistically that will become a vote for the lady in flat shoes with no policies then. Or a vote for strong and stable leadership in the brexit negotiations. I know. Seriously. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
monkeykieran Posted May 1, 2017 Share Posted May 1, 2017 'Not voting= voting for tories'??! How? You don't vote for the party or leader to be in government you only vote for your local MP. Unless you live in a swing area your vote or no vote has absolutely no influence over this. If people don't want to vote then let them. It's the non proportional representative system that's at fault. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Magister Posted May 1, 2017 Share Posted May 1, 2017 2 hours ago, monkeykieran said: 'Not voting= voting for tories'??! How? You don't vote for the party or leader to be in government you only vote for your local MP. Unless you live in a swing area your vote or no vote has absolutely no influence over this. If people don't want to vote then let them. It's the non proportional representative system that's at fault. And all the proportional representative champions are now moaning a bucketful that referendum results are not a representation of the electorates views either Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChaddySmoker Posted May 1, 2017 Share Posted May 1, 2017 9 hours ago, Magister said: And all the proportional representative champions are now moaning a bucketful that referendum results are not a representation of the electorates views either Don't you wish that you had some policies to discuss Magister? One day soon maybe! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Magister Posted May 1, 2017 Share Posted May 1, 2017 3 hours ago, ChaddySmoker said: Don't you wish that you had some policies to discuss Magister? One day soon maybe! You really really don't get it do you? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
singe Posted May 2, 2017 Share Posted May 2, 2017 The mantra is beginning to sink in. Storng and stable Coalition. Leadership is in chaos. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stevie_J Posted May 2, 2017 Share Posted May 2, 2017 On 01/05/2017 at 9:33 AM, Magister said: And all the proportional representative champions are now moaning a bucketful that referendum results are not a representation of the electorates views either Proportional representation is very different to the all-or-nothing of a referendum. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jimsleftfoot Posted May 2, 2017 Share Posted May 2, 2017 On 01/05/2017 at 9:33 AM, Magister said: And all the proportional representative champions are now moaning a bucketful that referendum results are not a representation of the electorates views either I prefer PR to FPTP and would have been more than happy for the decision whether to remain or leave, to be made by an elected government (under PR) based on their manifesto promises. I'm fairly sure the result would have been remain. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Magister Posted May 2, 2017 Share Posted May 2, 2017 1 hour ago, jimsleftfoot said: I prefer PR to FPTP and would have been more than happy for the decision whether to remain or leave, to be made by an elected government (under PR) based on their manifesto promises. I'm fairly sure the result would have been remain. I voted remain and I agree with you that PR would probably have delivered remain. However that begs a very interesting hypothetical question. Would PR therefore have given priority to the views of the 48% over those of the 52% in much the same way as it is argued that FPTP favours a minority Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
leeslover Posted May 2, 2017 Share Posted May 2, 2017 42 minutes ago, Magister said: I voted remain and I agree with you that PR would probably have delivered remain. However that begs a very interesting hypothetical question. Would PR therefore have given priority to the views of the 48% over those of the 52% in much the same way as it is argued that FPTP favours a minority I'm not sure about that. Depending on what system but with a transferable vote a lot of people might have given 1st preference to UKIP if the Labour or Tory candidates were for Remain, it would have exerted a lot of pressure on the mainstream parties Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt Posted May 2, 2017 Author Share Posted May 2, 2017 Fucking state of this campaign flyer sent to me today... https://www.docdroid.net/6lkEaig/campaign-news-2.pdf.html Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GlossopLatic Posted May 2, 2017 Share Posted May 2, 2017 22 minutes ago, rummytheowl said: Fucking state of this campaign flyer... campaign news 2.pdf Is that a secret forum? It's say I'm not aloud there? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jimsleftfoot Posted May 3, 2017 Share Posted May 3, 2017 (edited) 22 hours ago, Magister said: I voted remain and I agree with you that PR would probably have delivered remain. However that begs a very interesting hypothetical question. Would PR therefore have given priority to the views of the 48% over those of the 52% in much the same way as it is argued that FPTP favours a minority 21 hours ago, leeslover said: I'm not sure about that. Depending on what system but with a transferable vote a lot of people might have given 1st preference to UKIP if the Labour or Tory candidates were for Remain, it would have exerted a lot of pressure on the mainstream parties Yes i'd agree with LL. UKIP would get a larger vote (though perhaps also would have been found out) and that could have caused many mainstream MP's to back Brexit. There is a chance we could have been in a similar situation but whether a government would have wanted to be held accountable for taking us out, well...... they would have given us a referendum probably. So perhaps not remain after all!! On the other hand our political system may have been pretty different under PR (depending on the point PR had been granted). Edited May 3, 2017 by jimsleftfoot Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stevie_J Posted May 3, 2017 Share Posted May 3, 2017 18 hours ago, rummytheowl said: Fucking state of this campaign flyer sent to me today... https://www.docdroid.net/6lkEaig/campaign-news-2.pdf.html Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joe_lead Posted May 7, 2017 Share Posted May 7, 2017 Latest polls I've seen show Tories leading between 15% - 19%. FFS after 7 years of these b@@@@@@s this is where we are. The poorer in our society are no longer being squeezed, they are being trod upon. Given a bigger mandate you can be assured that the future for the majority will be worse than what is currently endured. Believe what you want about Corbyn, but anyone who believes in either not voting or voting Tory is either doing very well for themselves or needs their head felt. Don't give them justification to inflict even more harm on those that need protection and don't give them justification to sell off our assets and health service to their friends. A vote for the Tories is a vote to extract the wealth from the hands of the many into the hands of the people the represent. If you have ordinary working people using food banks then something is seriously wrong. Get rid. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roger Ritchie Posted May 7, 2017 Share Posted May 7, 2017 7 hours ago, joe_lead said: Latest polls I've seen show Tories leading between 15% - 19%. FFS after 7 years of these b@@@@@@s this is where we are. The poorer in our society are no longer being squeezed, they are being trod upon. Given a bigger mandate you can be assured that the future for the majority will be worse than what is currently endured. Believe what you want about Corbyn, but anyone who believes in either not voting or voting Tory is either doing very well for themselves or needs their head felt. Don't give them justification to inflict even more harm on those that need protection and don't give them justification to sell off our assets and health service to their friends. A vote for the Tories is a vote to extract the wealth from the hands of the many into the hands of the people the represent. If you have ordinary working people using food banks then something is seriously wrong. Get rid. Most sensible post on OWTB since records began. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.