BP1960 Posted May 10, 2017 Share Posted May 10, 2017 How many would like to see Latics reserves playing in the Northern Premier League I wonder? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deyres42 Posted May 10, 2017 Share Posted May 10, 2017 17 minutes ago, singe said: Not if the clubs themselves vote for it. I appreciate your clarification, and your reasons for it not happening are why many are opposing it. Many believe those reasons will be ignored for the immediate £'s gained. Five of the 'big' six didn't want in to this competition, won't even get off the ground if they don't want to join league regardless of the readies on the table. I could see a scenario whereby entry to the cup becomes compulsory as some sort of form of condition for keeping academy status. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
boundaryblue80 Posted May 10, 2017 Share Posted May 10, 2017 (edited) 27 minutes ago, deyres42 said: Five of the 'big' six didn't want in to this competition, won't even get off the ground if they don't want to join league regardless of the readies on the table. I could see a scenario whereby entry to the cup becomes compulsory as some sort of form of condition for keeping academy status. Did you miss all these discussions last summer? The big six didn't go for this tournament this time because they are usually in Europe and it has become the norm for them to use the League Cup to play their kids in. They also didn't say no when asked, they said they wanted to see how the tournament did. Edited May 10, 2017 by boundaryblue80 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stevie_J Posted May 10, 2017 Share Posted May 10, 2017 1 hour ago, deyres42 said: Lawsuits ahoy in that scenario. I know we are talking in hypotheticals but limited/no promotions or relegations for them but for us kills it stone dead. What if they get bored of it after a year? Can they just drop out? You would expect they would sign up to a minimum term of, say, ten years. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yarddog73 Posted May 10, 2017 Share Posted May 10, 2017 2 hours ago, Latics and England said: If it was really simplistic, in that: Ten teams as selected by the Premier League (both Manchester clubs, both Merseyside clubs, Chelsea, Arsenal, Tottenham, Newcastle, West Ham & Southampton) are invited to enter a new League 3 along with the top 14 from the Conference League 3 is simply added to the pyramid between Lge 2 and the Conference Relegation and promotion is unchanged except that the B Teams cannot be relegated from Lge 3 or promoted from Lge 1 Lge 1 solidarity payments to each club increase by £1m per year Lge 2 solidarity payments to each club increase by £0.75m per year Lge 3 clubs get solidarity payments of £0.5m per year How do you think that Simon Corney would vote (taking him as a fairly standard owner at our level)? Although simplistic, this seems a realistic offer to me. It would only cost the Premier League £54m per year or alternatively £5.4m per club if paid for by the 10 invited clubs. This is an absolute drop in the ocean for them but would be enough to turn the heads of enough clubs to make it viable. You could double it if you wanted, still nothing significant for the Premier League but way too much for most lower league chairmen to turn down. Even if a club like us realised that this could very quickly lead to relegation if the B Teams were competitive, we would simply see that we would still be £750k better off than by not taking the deal. What's stopping them doing that now then if it's what they are really after? How many of them who are so keen on the idea took their place in last season's Checkatrade? From what I remember the big clubs dropped out like flies. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deyres42 Posted May 10, 2017 Share Posted May 10, 2017 9 minutes ago, yarddog73 said: What's stopping them doing that now then if it's what they are really after? How many of them who are so keen on the idea took their place in last season's Checkatrade? From what I remember the big clubs dropped out like flies. They didn't say no, just declined to take part... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
simplythemostimportantkick Posted May 10, 2017 Share Posted May 10, 2017 14 minutes ago, deyres42 said: They didn't say no, just declined to take part... So they was asked to take part and said no ? In other words ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deyres42 Posted May 10, 2017 Share Posted May 10, 2017 2 minutes ago, simplythemostimportantkick said: So they was asked to take part and said no ? In other words ? According to boundaryblue, yes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
singe Posted May 10, 2017 Share Posted May 10, 2017 2 hours ago, deyres42 said: Five of the 'big' six didn't want in to this competition, won't even get off the ground if they don't want to join league regardless of the readies on the table. I could see a scenario whereby entry to the cup becomes compulsory as some sort of form of condition for keeping academy status. They may have not joined this competition, this year, but if the oppportunity to have B Teams in the Football League happened they'd be a lot keener. They are happy to play the long game IMHO. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scapegoat Posted May 10, 2017 Share Posted May 10, 2017 It's very hard to see where this may end up. I don't think anyone is pleased to see B teams in the competition, and there is no doubt that you can argue it's the "thin edge of the wedge" and that money can buy a lot more influence than we'd like. Then there is the fact that the Premiership has loads of cash, lower league teams are desperate for it. And the then the adage that players develop better in genuinely competitive games - no amount of reserve football compares to games that count. Finally, the mere fact that B teams in the league format is a point of discussion, means that it's at least being considered at some level. It would be a siesmeic shift, akin to the formation of the PremierLeague, and would undoubtedly change our game. But there are lots of reasons why it wouldn't work - Premiership "fans" would never see it as a true representation of their club and therefore follow it and (more importantly) spend money to watch it on TV etc. I felt anything for reserve games when we had them. Therefore is there money in it? If not, it will fail. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oafc88 Posted May 10, 2017 Share Posted May 10, 2017 30 minutes ago, Scapegoat said: But there are lots of reasons why it wouldn't work - Premiership "fans" would never see it as a true representation of their club and therefore follow it and (more importantly) spend money to watch it on TV etc. I felt anything for reserve games when we had them. Therefore is there money in it? If not, it will fail. Agree with that post. I may add to this bit though that I think the Premier League clubs would already know there's not much money it for them, beyond the development of players for their 1st teams or selling them on for profit, so I dont think this would be a consideration for them. Hypothetically if this is what the greedy league and FA are going to try at some point, to try and get B teams in the league structure, I can't help feel the whole thing is self-defeating. Obviously the main reason for them wanting this is to test their kids in a much more intense environment than they currently get. However that intensity would gradually erode over time as people would stop giving a shit. So you would end up with something no one wants. I cant understand the wish to mess with probably the best league structure in the world for something that would fail in the long run (sure i've read the German leagues are thinking of scrapping their B teams as they no longer see a benefit). Feel free, anyone, to correct me if im wrong but i think our tier 2,3,4, hell all tiers outside tier 1 (even itself sometimes the best attended football league) are the best attended in comparison to any other countries corresponding tiers (if they have as many). Souless games against these B teams, home and away, will suck the life out of the remaining competition. Greedy league- Either loan players out to clubs now as you currently do or stop hoarding so many fucking players you need this B team nosense in the first place. Possibly a bit over dramatic for something thats currently "off the table" but its a worry and the current state of the EFL Trophy is just the canary down the mine. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheBigDog Posted May 10, 2017 Share Posted May 10, 2017 10 minutes ago, Oafc88 said: Greedy league- Either loan players out to clubs now as you currently do or stop hoarding so many fucking players you need this B team nonsense in the first place. This oh yes! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChrisA Posted May 11, 2017 Share Posted May 11, 2017 (edited) 16 hours ago, Oafc88 said: Greedy league- Either loan players out to clubs now as you currently do or stop hoarding so many fucking players you need this B team nosense in the first place. EPPP, England DNA, it's all a load of bollocks. There's a room at St George's Park with a clock counting down to the 2022 World Cup Final. I've been reading Michael Calvin's latest book and he spends time with Dan Ashworth the FA Director of Elite Development. Ashworth says it's shame clubs like City can't buy a club like Oldham, Bury and Rochdale to farm players out. Stop taking so many and we could just be playing them every week anyway. Edited May 11, 2017 by ChrisA Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Forte_Baby Posted May 11, 2017 Share Posted May 11, 2017 They could revamp the competition play the first round on the final week of July as curtain raiser to the new season. Replaces a pre season friendly, generates interest, cheap admission also give the winners a reward with a bye till round 3 of the FA cup. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
leeslover Posted May 11, 2017 Share Posted May 11, 2017 It needs to be knockout, then you have the choice of whether to budget for extra games and the risk of injuries or have a half arsed effort hoping and expecting to get knocked out. The group stage is the worst of all worlds Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
singe Posted May 12, 2017 Share Posted May 12, 2017 (edited) On 10/05/2017 at 6:56 PM, Oafc88 said: Agree with that post. I may add to this bit though that I think the Premier League clubs would already know there's not much money it for them, beyond the development of players for their 1st teams or selling them on for profit, so I dont think this would be a consideration for them. Hypothetically if this is what the greedy league and FA are going to try at some point, to try and get B teams in the league structure, I can't help feel the whole thing is self-defeating. Obviously the main reason for them wanting this is to test their kids in a much more intense environment than they currently get. However that intensity would gradually erode over time as people would stop giving a shit. So you would end up with something no one wants. I cant understand the wish to mess with probably the best league structure in the world for something that would fail in the long run (sure i've read the German leagues are thinking of scrapping their B teams as they no longer see a benefit). Feel free, anyone, to correct me if im wrong but i think our tier 2,3,4, hell all tiers outside tier 1 (even itself sometimes the best attended football league) are the best attended in comparison to any other countries corresponding tiers (if they have as many). Souless games against these B teams, home and away, will suck the life out of the remaining competition. Greedy league- Either loan players out to clubs now as you currently do or stop hoarding so many fucking players you need this B team nosense in the first place. Possibly a bit over dramatic for something thats currently "off the table" but its a worry and the current state of the EFL Trophy is just the canary down the mine. Agree with a lot of this, and Scapegoat's post. here is no way the players put the same effort in the Chekcatrade as they do for a League or FA/LEague Cup game, so it is only step up from the Reserve League anyway. For me, therefore, the only solution is to boycott the Checkatrade so that the attendances are akin to Reserve Leagues and therefore the main attraction of more competitive games is lost. I am sure we all agree the loan system is a far better method than B Teams, as decent players emerge; a bit more hardened , part of a team and also realising how lucky they are. You can see the decent players that emerge out of it because they remain true professionals throughout the loan period like Defoe and Conor Ripley and those that think they are above it and do not progress and fester in City reserves. There does not seem to be any analysis of the loan v B Team, just Fa throwing money at it becaus eGuardiola says it works in Spain. The sucess lies in the the coaching in my opinion and that is hwhere we could benefit from the larger clubs. The numbers of qualified coaches in Spain etc far exceeds ours and they seem to be much better technically coached players, but maybe that is only because we see the top flight. However, just having the qualification, as we have seen to our cost is no guarantee, it needs experience and possibly our qualification needs upping in standard. Edited May 12, 2017 by singe Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oafcmetty Posted May 12, 2017 Share Posted May 12, 2017 3 minutes ago, singe said: For me, therefore, the only solution is to boycott the Checkatrade so that the attendances are akin to Reserve Leagues and therefore the main attraction of more competitive games is lost. Why would having low attendances make the games less competitive? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
singe Posted May 12, 2017 Share Posted May 12, 2017 6 minutes ago, oafcmetty said: Why would having low attendances make the games less competitive? Not on it's own, but coupled with the fact League clubs do not take the Checkatrade seriously means it is on par with Reserve game. If the crowds increased it would simulate a League game more. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GlossopLatic Posted May 12, 2017 Share Posted May 12, 2017 (edited) Let's not also lose sight of the fact that B teams in this competition won't see more young English players come through the ranks at the top clubs, and will not benefit the England national team remotely. Edited May 12, 2017 by GlossopLatic Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joncurtis199 Posted June 12, 2017 Share Posted June 12, 2017 Its alright lads, the Checkatrade Trophy helped us win the U20 world cup. http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/40252921 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BP1960 Posted June 12, 2017 Share Posted June 12, 2017 27 minutes ago, joncurtis199 said: Its alright lads, the Checkatrade Trophy helped us win the U20 world cup. http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/40252921 And our part in Ryan Bertrand's World Cup winners medal 2018. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oafc88 Posted June 12, 2017 Share Posted June 12, 2017 (edited) 1 hour ago, joncurtis199 said: Its alright lads, the Checkatrade Trophy helped us win the U20 world cup. http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/40252921 What a cynical attempt by whoever that is to try and make it seem that the sole season the U20's have been in the comp has done the trick. You just know others are going to run with this too as evidence it works. What absolute horse shit. Edited June 12, 2017 by Oafc88 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave_Og Posted June 13, 2017 Share Posted June 13, 2017 Did any of the U20 squad play in it? I thought under 20 was the number of appearances they will make in the premier league next season Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
singe Posted June 13, 2017 Share Posted June 13, 2017 (edited) The whole team palyed 6 Checkatrade games!! There's spin, there's Tony Blair Spin, there's Theres May nothing to see here spin and then there is Dan Ashorth! Edited June 13, 2018 by singe Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nzlatic Posted June 13, 2017 Share Posted June 13, 2017 47 minutes ago, singe said: The whole team palyed 6 Checkatrade games!! There's spin, there's Tony Blair Spin, there's Theres May nothing to see here spin and then there is Dan Ashorth! With 3 of those 6 being by the Charlton lad who would have done that without B teams anyway ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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