JoeP

I mean I agree. Just because "that's not how recruitment is done anymore" in the game in general isn't a good enough reason not to do it like that, I don't think. I'm all for embracing modern ways of doing things, but it does feel we've gone balls deep into something that works for the top teams with lots of resources without really thinking about how it would work at our level..

Similarly there's no evidence we don't use them too heavily. Why would we have a stats department if it wasn't fairly central to our recruitment?

Given the approach was in place before and after his arrival, he's probably had no choice!

Could get quite cathartic this thread.. As LOF said in the OP and I've said elsewhere, we've used stats too heavily. We've brought in a (over-inflated) squad of individuals based on stats, rather than built a team based on a mix of ability and personality. Darren Royle takes a heavy share of that responsibility, I guess. Football's a simple game, especially at this level. We seemed to decide on an over-complex recruitment strategy and just thrown more and more (of Frank's!) money at it in the hope that it works, rather than taking a cautious approach and seeing how it works out. I'm still reluctant to put Mellon near the top of the blame pile. These players haven't played for two managers now and he still hasn't really put his own mark on the team with the aim of getting to "what good looks like". He seems fed-up. Maybe he's been mis-sold the club, in the same way that Norwood seems to have been. Maybe in spite of some good people in charge of the club, there's not a lot of shrewd football knowledge about and we're actually not being run as well as we or he were expecting. We've got a lot of these players next year thanks to the big contracts handed out and Mellon, understandably, is struggling to come up with an idea to move forward with them. That said, his reluctance to stick with a settled first eleven, his reluctance to try any of the youth players and his weird subs does have a few alarm bells ringing. As we're stuck with a lot of the players for next year, we've got to find a way of improving the squad with what resources we've got. There are some players there that would fit into a good team, if they had the right characters around them. Lundstram for example, has been disappointing this season but I think if he had more positive players around him, he'd be a real asset. Having positive players around the place is important, to perhaps bring the likes of Lundstram through who is a talented player but maybe has fragile confidence. I'd keep the Big Mike and Gardner mainly for that reason and with the possibility of the odd cameo. (Puts hard-hat on) With that in mind, the first person I'd move on is James Norwood. Yes, he's out top scorer, but I can't see him being so next season here (unless we get quite a few penalties again..). For £5k a week, I didn't think we were getting just a goal-scorer, but a senior player who would help develop the younger players in a positive way, but he seems to have the air of someone who thinks "this is shit and everyone around me is shit", which is not helpful. It's no coincidence that we were playing well without him and then went back to being awful once he returned - even last night we concede as soon as he walks on the pitch! It's nothing to do with him not smiling or celebrating - anyone who thinks that's an issue is an idiot. Similarly - anyone who keeps referring to that being the only reason people don't like him are also idiots. There's obviously something not right in the dressing room - check out the lack of congratulations and joy in the team when Gardner scored the penalty last night. With a modicum of extra effort over a couple of these final games, we could have achieved something - had the chance to play at Wembley. Something a lot of these players will never get the chance to do in their careers again. That seems to me like there's either an attitude problem or the club is so rotten, the players are devoid of any motivation for the club, the fans or themselves, which is the biggest worry of them all. We might need better players - but we definitely need better personalities.

Still had the audacity to bollock everyone else on the way back to the centre-circle...

Garner was. Held it up well, won free kicks. Bringing them both off so close to each other completely disrupted our rhythm..

Utterly bizarre subs. You don't take off your two best players..

He was in my living room...

Bars low, but I don't think we've actually been that bad...

He'd probably edge in there, along with Gardner and Big Mike.

The fans accepted it was over because of what was happening on the pitch. How are the fans supposed to change that, when they can't encourage, criticise or even stay silent, because of the supposed negative effects it has? It's nothing to do with the fans. The players and management have created the air of resignation. If the players are influencing the players that much, we need new players.

Sorry, that is nonsense. Sing encouragement? The players can't handle the pressure.. Criticise? The fans make a toxic atmosphere.. Do absolutely jack shit and stay silent? The fans should be lifting the team! The fans cannot win and it's a complete and utter cop-out blaming them. What would really fuck me off more than losing these next two games is winning both of them in style and missing out on the play-offs. The players have had umpteen chances - for the fans, for the club, for themselves to make this a successful season and they've chosen to approach a load of crucial games like it's a knockabout in the park. If the fans are having that much influence on it - we need to get rid of the lot and spend money on personalities ahead of perceived talent. Players who genuinely want to be here and who want to do well for themselves and the others involved. Players who who won't sulk when the chips are down. Players who will encourage others and work hard. This lot tick none of those boxes...

Do you not want to give our heroes a rousing send-off on Saturday??

Ah, Sharpy..I wonder if he still thinks he should get the Everton manager's job? Yes, it was Leeds. It was "Only" 30 years ago - you're ageing us all, Dave!

How many did they start with??

1-0 Shots.. Not looking good for our heroes in blue and tange...

Yes, fair points there - the world's changing and we've got to change with it. And we've got to review why things haven't worked out so far. But how beneficial is the new way of working for lower league clubs? We can't afford all the data scientists, fitness and recruitment people, etc. Arsenal say, can however afford to hoover up dozens of players based on stats with the possibility of just one turning out to be a world-class player. We can't. We need to sign players that aren't risks (I know every player is a risk, etc..) yet have less resources to do it. It's a different game down here - if we're in a position to evolve to the next level at some point, then I'm all for all the different departments and personnel, etc but we are where we are and I think it needs to be fairly streamlined. It'd be interesting to see how the smaller clubs currently sat above us in the National League work when it comes to transfers - given it's only us and York that seem to be using Statbomb, for example. While the world is changing, etc the human psyche hasn't changed beyond that for a team to work, it doesn't just need good participants, it needs good personalities too...

I don't - as I say (again), I'm hypothesising. I'll also say again, I'm open to hearing about how Statsbomb works, put I'm going to make a fairly safe assumption that it's something to do with player stats. The clue's in the name. As we've also had/got a stats department, I'm going to suggest a lot of our signings are heavily based on stats - otherwise there'd be no point in the department existing. Is the old-fashioned scouting still a thing? I'm pretty sure I read somewhere it's not. Neither is the manager driving the length and breadth of the country to watch a player they're interested in signing, as far as I'm aware. I'm of the opinion that it should be the manager and the manager only who makes the call on signings as he's the one that's going to have to mould a team with them. So if we've got a stats department, recruitment department (previously Steve Thompson?) and the Coach/Manager with an influence, it seems like too many cooks to me and you end up with a scenario where the manager has to work with players he might not want, because other people have had an input.

Meh, I'm all ears (or eyes..) if you want to let me know how it works... I'm just hypothesising. Recruitment's been crap, we've had a stats and recruitment department, we seem to have signed a lot of decent players on paper, who just haven't gelled. Doesn't seem beyond the realms that we've looked at player stats, gone "he's got those stats, he's got those stats, lets sign them" without looking at the player as a character..

I hope someone explained to him before he took over how much money he'd lose. We own the ground and there's £5 million loan (?) available to the club, so we're not in imminent financial danger, are we? He's wasted loads of cash and will probably need to waste a load more before we get to where we need to be. Hopefully he's got it to spare and is willing to take the hit!

You're right there - which is why this "Statsbomb" nonsense needs scrapping. It might work for Arsenal, but I can't believe it really tells you anything at this level. You think about successful teams we've had in the past - they were all full of characters. The late 80s/early 90s sides were full of them. Paul Warne sticks in my head for some reason. You also had proper leaders like Duxbury and Gregan. Dux in particular wasn't the most gifted footballer, but got stuck in every week and encouraged others to do the same. I can't see anyone even nearly like that here. I think it's irrelevant who the manager is, the dynamic just isn't right in the squad.

It appears we've relied heavily on stats (which seem to be working for York (the other club using Statbomb) as well for them as it does for us) and previous achievements have been the key factor when we're looking to bring players in. I think you need the right chemistry in the squad as well, though - there is no way that exists amongst this lot..

But we've got a group of solid footballers. Every signing made, I can see why we've done it. Previous promotion winners, Players of the Year and League One quality. But it isn't working. It's a team we need. You need quality - of course you do - but you need the right team spirit too.

I dunno - I don't think he can really win in interviews. Say everything's fine and he's blowing smoke up our arses. Says - accurately - that things aren't well and it's a bad move and demotivating. I don't think there's anything wrong with what he's said and the timing, which is when we're almost certainly not going to make the play-offs. Something needed to be said about these players. The changing room is not harmonious. The other option was to pretend everything's fine and nothing will change moving forward. As I say, we've signed a group of individuals, rather than a team. We need to address that. We need good characters, along side talent. I think Gardner is a good character to have around, Fondop is and Conlon is supposedly too. It it'll be a surprise to no one who I think is bottom of the list on that front!

I agree, but one person's "telling people they're shit" is another person's "demanding higher standards of others". Apparently...