kowenicki Posted July 9, 2019 Share Posted July 9, 2019 1 hour ago, whittles left foot said: Bury have offered 25% payment of the amount they owe HMRC-so will it be OK if I offer to do that for my tax bill? Thats normal in a CVA. Indeed, that is the whole point of a CVA. It is being abused in football though. A business should demonstrate it has solved the problems that caused the issues in the first place, this then allows a business to survive and rebuild. It should not be used to kick a can down the road and end up in the same place again. Bury should be put in to liquidation imo. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kowenicki Posted July 9, 2019 Share Posted July 9, 2019 1 hour ago, al_bro said: I don't think the tax ma will allow Bury to get away with that either. They might not, but probably only if they think Bury have been reckless in the past, are likely to be reckless in the future and have behaved very poorly toward HMRC previously. The CVA needs 75% (by value) of creditors to agree for it to proceed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kowenicki Posted July 9, 2019 Share Posted July 9, 2019 1 hour ago, lookersstandandy said: ....would it be fair to say that HMRC would set a precedent for other football clubs to use/present as evidence, if they allowed it....? Might come in handy one day if they did....!?! Not really. Doesn’t work like that. Case by case basis. No two cases have the same history or circumstances. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lookersstandandy Posted July 9, 2019 Share Posted July 9, 2019 6 minutes ago, kowenicki said: Not really. Doesn’t work like that. Case by case basis. No two cases have the same history or circumstances. That's a shame..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yarddog73 Posted July 9, 2019 Share Posted July 9, 2019 16 minutes ago, kowenicki said: They might not, but probably only if they think Bury have been reckless in the past, are likely to be reckless in the future and have behaved very poorly toward HMRC previously. The CVA needs 75% (by value) of creditors to agree for it to proceed. Isn't the new chairman adding £8 million debt owed to himself to try and abuse the 75% rule?. Effectively allowing himself to agree the CVA? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kowenicki Posted July 9, 2019 Share Posted July 9, 2019 1 hour ago, yarddog73 said: Isn't the new chairman adding £8 million debt owed to himself to try and abuse the 75% rule?. Effectively allowing himself to agree the CVA? He is def up to something, but I doubt he’d get away with something that transparent! Ha. He’s ‘owed’ about £4m I think and associated creditors aren’t allowed to vote anyway. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
leeslover Posted July 9, 2019 Share Posted July 9, 2019 22 hours ago, kowenicki'smoustache said: The owners of the greyhound stadium had not invested in it for years. Much of it was unsafe and unusable. As a dog track it had been dying on its backside for years. A woeful experience for the punter. The track owners will not have lost out financially, the few remaining staff undoubtedly will have done. The biggest community loss has been the large Sunday market and car boot sale which took place at the Stadium. Sadly, once these things disappear, they rarely come back. It has indeed been fortuitous for AFC that they will benefit from this major development. They are not the ones making the real money here though. Given house prices in Merton (fancy a two bed terrace for £900k+?), Murky Merton will be a far happier place for the bricks n mortar brigade. All very sad for the dog track and workers involved, but a sense of homecoming for the football club. Sadly always seem to be losers where there are winners. I got the feeling that their modern fan base doesn't have much in common with their golden days. That's London though Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave_Og Posted July 9, 2019 Share Posted July 9, 2019 3 hours ago, whittles left foot said: Bury have offered 25% payment of the amount they owe HMRC-so will it be OK if I offer to do that for my tax bill? Well you can offer... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave_Og Posted July 9, 2019 Share Posted July 9, 2019 56 minutes ago, leeslover said: I got the feeling that their modern fan base doesn't have much in common with their golden days. That's London though I know several who bought season tickets post the MK debacle and still have them. Not a chance in hell they would have done for the old club. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kowenicki'smoustache Posted July 9, 2019 Share Posted July 9, 2019 2 hours ago, leeslover said: I got the feeling that their modern fan base doesn't have much in common with their golden days. That's London though The modern/current AFC fan base absolutely consider themselves to be the custodians of the glory days. Vitriol and disdain rains down upon the thieving franchise scum... so they tell me. Even in London they have standards. Low, but standards none the less! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rudemedic Posted July 9, 2019 Share Posted July 9, 2019 6 hours ago, lookersstandandy said: ....would it be fair to say that HMRC would set a precedent for other football clubs to use/present as evidence, if they allowed it....? Might come in handy one day if they did....!?! If memory serves we were unusual in offering 50% back to HMRC when we went into administration in 2003/4. 25% was more the standard and for some clubs, possibly Leeds, it was more like 10%. Football as a whole needs to get its house in order. It is wrong on many levels that a club like Bournemouth is now offering its players £100k pw when it was in administration 11 years ago and didn't pay all its creditors 100% back 11 years ago. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
leeslover Posted July 9, 2019 Share Posted July 9, 2019 4 hours ago, Dave_Og said: I know several who bought season tickets post the MK debacle and still have them. Not a chance in hell they would have done for the old club. I can well imagine that 3 hours ago, kowenicki'smoustache said: The modern/current AFC fan base absolutely consider themselves to be the custodians of the glory days. Vitriol and disdain rains down upon the thieving franchise scum... so they tell me. Even in London they have standards. Low, but standards none the less! I'm delighted beyond words for the old fans who've followed it through, and people who got behind the club early doors. MK are filth and will always be so. No amount of time will pass before I accept them as a club. That said, I'm not sure how much linkage there is between the affluent Kingston folk following them now and the Merton community of the 1980/90s. The new lot are more like a Dulwich Hamlets without pretending to care about identity issues. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kowenicki'smoustache Posted July 10, 2019 Share Posted July 10, 2019 13 hours ago, leeslover said: I can well imagine that I'm delighted beyond words for the old fans who've followed it through, and people who got behind the club early doors. MK are filth and will always be so. No amount of time will pass before I accept them as a club. That said, I'm not sure how much linkage there is between the affluent Kingston folk following them now and the Merton community of the 1980/90s. The new lot are more like a Dulwich Hamlets without pretending to care about identity issues. All of my AFC mates (and I have many) are old school, Wimbledon/Merton based. I'm really not aware of much support in Kingston. I've been loosely involved with AFC since the first gathering of potential players. The hard-core of the support is very much the old mob. It will be interesting to see what the new stadium brings in terms of support and where they come from. One thing I do take from my experience with AFC, is that the idea of a phoenix club is mad. It has worked here but I really don't believe it would work elsewhere, especially with Latics. It worked for AFC because the club was stolen, not (just) by a bonkers owner, but by the authorities charged with protecting the game. The Football League and the FA conspired to commit an abomination and they should be forever ashamed. That sense of injustice drove the impetous for AFC. The fan base is small but seriously protective of its club. That they have achieved what they have is astonishing. It's been interesting watching the highs that followed such a massive low. Especially as I've had nowt to cheer for decades Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
unsworthlatic Posted July 10, 2019 Share Posted July 10, 2019 1 hour ago, kowenicki'smoustache said: All of my AFC mates (and I have many) are old school, Wimbledon/Merton based. I'm really not aware of much support in Kingston. I've been loosely involved with AFC since the first gathering of potential players. The hard-core of the support is very much the old mob. It will be interesting to see what the new stadium brings in terms of support and where they come from. One thing I do take from my experience with AFC, is that the idea of a phoenix club is mad. It has worked here but I really don't believe it would work elsewhere, especially with Latics. It worked for AFC because the club was stolen, not (just) by a bonkers owner, but by the authorities charged with protecting the game. The Football League and the FA conspired to commit an abomination and they should be forever ashamed. That sense of injustice drove the impetous for AFC. The fan base is small but seriously protective of its club. That they have achieved what they have is astonishing. It's been interesting watching the highs that followed such a massive low. Especially as I've had nowt to cheer for decades Although I appreciate, respect and admire their resilience as a fan base and as a club when the club was stolen underneath their eyes to become MK Dons in 2004, there still remains inconsistencies and unspoken truths about the case as a whole and their mantra going forward. Wimbledon, as I understand it (not speaking from first hand as I’m only 25), were hated by the majority of people in England throughout the “Crazy Gang” years for their style of play and even the majority of the country (neutrals) wanted the underdog to lose in a cup final in 1988. This of course doesn’t mean that for this the club should be stolen etc. An issue with AFC Wimbledon. They say they were ‘forced’ to support a phoenix club following the club moving to Milton Keynes. If that is true, I don’t understand the crossover in when the clubs were founded. Milton Keynes Dons were founded in 2004 however AFC Wimbledon were founded in May 2002. Did the fans in fact “give up” on their club deciding the club was dead? In essence, Wimbledon FC were dead. The club knew it, the support knew it and all of football could see it too. They recorded the lowest ever Premier League attendance in 1993 of just over 3,000 v Everton. Again, where were the fanatical fanbase at this stage? As well as this, AFC Wimbledon fans remain embarrassed that in effect they have done the same to Kingstonian in respect of “all but killing their club” for AFC’s gain. This surely goes against everything they stood/stand for? This post, clearly sounds like I dislike AFC Wimbledon. I can give or take them and fully respect their achievements and resilience as stated before. That said, the unlimited praise for them without mentioning the other bits is not representative to the story as a whole. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
leeslover Posted July 10, 2019 Share Posted July 10, 2019 11 minutes ago, unsworthlatic said: Although I appreciate, respect and admire their resilience as a fan base and as a club when the club was stolen underneath their eyes to become MK Dons in 2004, there still remains inconsistencies and unspoken truths about the case as a whole and their mantra going forward. Wimbledon, as I understand it (not speaking from first hand as I’m only 25), were hated by the majority of people in England throughout the “Crazy Gang” years for their style of play and even the majority of the country (neutrals) wanted the underdog to lose in a cup final in 1988. This of course doesn’t mean that for this the club should be stolen etc. An issue with AFC Wimbledon. They say they were ‘forced’ to support a phoenix club following the club moving to Milton Keynes. If that is true, I don’t understand the crossover in when the clubs were founded. Milton Keynes Dons were founded in 2004 however AFC Wimbledon were founded in May 2002. Did the fans in fact “give up” on their club deciding the club was dead? In essence, Wimbledon FC were dead. The club knew it, the support knew it and all of football could see it too. They recorded the lowest ever Premier League attendance in 1993 of just over 3,000 v Everton. Again, where were the fanatical fanbase at this stage? As well as this, AFC Wimbledon fans remain embarrassed that in effect they have done the same to Kingstonian in respect of “all but killing their club” for AFC’s gain. This surely goes against everything they stood/stand for? This post, clearly sounds like I dislike AFC Wimbledon. I can give or take them and fully respect their achievements and resilience as stated before. That said, the unlimited praise for them without mentioning the other bits is not representative to the story as a whole. They weren't big enough to survive in the Premiership (this was used as an excuse at the time), the simple solution is relegation Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
al_bro Posted July 10, 2019 Share Posted July 10, 2019 What's the capacity of the new stadium? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kowenicki'smoustache Posted July 10, 2019 Share Posted July 10, 2019 38 minutes ago, unsworthlatic said: Although I appreciate, respect and admire their resilience as a fan base and as a club when the club was stolen underneath their eyes to become MK Dons in 2004, there still remains inconsistencies and unspoken truths about the case as a whole and their mantra going forward. Wimbledon, as I understand it (not speaking from first hand as I’m only 25), were hated by the majority of people in England throughout the “Crazy Gang” years for their style of play and even the majority of the country (neutrals) wanted the underdog to lose in a cup final in 1988. This of course doesn’t mean that for this the club should be stolen etc. An issue with AFC Wimbledon. They say they were ‘forced’ to support a phoenix club following the club moving to Milton Keynes. If that is true, I don’t understand the crossover in when the clubs were founded. Milton Keynes Dons were founded in 2004 however AFC Wimbledon were founded in May 2002. Did the fans in fact “give up” on their club deciding the club was dead? In essence, Wimbledon FC were dead. The club knew it, the support knew it and all of football could see it too. They recorded the lowest ever Premier League attendance in 1993 of just over 3,000 v Everton. Again, where were the fanatical fanbase at this stage? As well as this, AFC Wimbledon fans remain embarrassed that in effect they have done the same to Kingstonian in respect of “all but killing their club” for AFC’s gain. This surely goes against everything they stood/stand for? This post, clearly sounds like I dislike AFC Wimbledon. I can give or take them and fully respect their achievements and resilience as stated before. That said, the unlimited praise for them without mentioning the other bits is not representative to the story as a whole. The Wimbledon fanbase was, and is, very small. They hugely overachieved in getting to and remaining in the top division. The style of play was effective and, as such, unpopular with 'bigger' clubs and football purists. Not my cup of tea but then nor was the Dave Penney 'style' at Latics. AFC was formed following the agreement to allow Wimbledon to move to MK. The name was not immediately changed to MK Dons. I agree that there are some apparently unpalatable aspects to the ongoing story as I have alluded to in a previous post. It isn't as simple as big bad AFC trampling over little Kingstonian though. The Ks were happy enough with the initial agreement and my understanding, from a long time Ks fan, is that Kingstonian were very likely to disappear completely without the deal. They were in fact shafted by their property developing owner. It should also be noted that Ks only moved to Kingsmeadow in 1989. Professional football is a quagmire of seedy, unpleasant deals. Most of the ins and outs the average fan will never get to know about. AFC have, by and large, been pretty open. Anyway, let's hope that we never have to suffer the disappearance (or theft) of our club. I'm not hugely hopeful at the moment but you never know... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lookersstandandy Posted July 10, 2019 Share Posted July 10, 2019 12 minutes ago, al_bro said: What's the capacity of the new stadium? 10,000 I think..... with scope to extend.... up to 20,000. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kowenicki'smoustache Posted July 10, 2019 Share Posted July 10, 2019 13 minutes ago, al_bro said: What's the capacity of the new stadium? Initially 9000 with potential to develop up to 20000. Way too big for the football I suspect, but I suppose they anticipate other uses. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave_Og Posted July 10, 2019 Share Posted July 10, 2019 There is no doubt whatsoever in my mind that the MK thing was the best thing that ever happened to them. It was wrong on so many levels but it was still the best thing that ever happened to them. (bar winning the FA Cup). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kowenicki Posted July 10, 2019 Share Posted July 10, 2019 This stinks! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
latics22 Posted July 11, 2019 Share Posted July 11, 2019 Why did, you energy let them rack up 500000k? So basically if you have a a decent ground, average attendance and potential. Rack up as much debt as you can, climb the leagues, go bump and be bailed out paying less than half your debts! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Monty Burns Posted July 11, 2019 Share Posted July 11, 2019 7 minutes ago, latics22 said: Why did, you energy let them rack up 500000k? So basically if you have a a decent ground, average attendance and potential. Rack up as much debt as you can, climb the leagues, go bump and be bailed out paying less than half your debts! The real madrid model. Bolton are just missing the part where the king pays the debt for them every few years!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lookersstandandy Posted July 11, 2019 Share Posted July 11, 2019 9 hours ago, kowenicki said: This stinks! So much so I had to pinch my nose to read it.... but we have no idea if our lad is any better....!?! That’s frightening.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
singe Posted July 11, 2019 Share Posted July 11, 2019 17 hours ago, kowenicki'smoustache said: The Wimbledon fanbase was, and is, very small. They hugely overachieved in getting to and remaining in the top division. The style of play was effective and, as such, unpopular with 'bigger' clubs and football purists. Not my cup of tea but then nor was the Dave Penney 'style' at Latics. AFC was formed following the agreement to allow Wimbledon to move to MK. The name was not immediately changed to MK Dons. I agree that there are some apparently unpalatable aspects to the ongoing story as I have alluded to in a previous post. It isn't as simple as big bad AFC trampling over little Kingstonian though. The Ks were happy enough with the initial agreement and my understanding, from a long time Ks fan, is that Kingstonian were very likely to disappear completely without the deal. They were in fact shafted by their property developing owner. It should also be noted that Ks only moved to Kingsmeadow in 1989. Professional football is a quagmire of seedy, unpleasant deals. Most of the ins and outs the average fan will never get to know about. AFC have, by and large, been pretty open. Anyway, let's hope that we never have to suffer the disappearance (or theft) of our club. I'm not hugely hopeful at the moment but you never know... Agree the ownership mishandled the whole situation. I suspect you know of these articles, but for others. One here from a self depricating MArk Murphy who was K's Trust Chairman. And Ian King who I think is a former player, and editor of Two hundredperecent http://twohundredpercent.net/kingsmeadow-wimbledon-kingstonian-an-alternative-view/ https://www.google.com/search?client=firefox-b-d&channel=trow&q=Kingstonian+site%3Ahttp%3A%2F%2Ftwohundredpercent.net For me , it is a salutory tale and we should apply caution of with our owners. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Archived
This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.