kowenicki Posted July 26, 2019 Share Posted July 26, 2019 14 hours ago, lookersstandandy said: I don’t take any enjoyment out of it.... it doesn’t take a lot of imagination to see us in the same position, or worse. I know how I’d feel.... and that makes me think of the anguish some Bury fans must going though right now. Gut wrenching. Not sure how it can be worse. They are facing expulsion if they don’t sort themselves and that would mean the end, new club required. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lookersstandandy Posted July 27, 2019 Share Posted July 27, 2019 9 hours ago, kowenicki said: Not sure how it can be worse. They are facing expulsion if they don’t sort themselves and that would mean the end, new club required. ....by worse I mean liquidation. As things stands they entered into an administrative process / CVA. They still exist, for now.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kowenicki Posted July 27, 2019 Share Posted July 27, 2019 30 minutes ago, lookersstandandy said: ....by worse I mean liquidation. As things stands they entered into an administrative process / CVA. They still exist, for now.... We would have the opportunity to go through the same process first and the FLG will step in and save us, so don’t worry. Highly likely Bury will get liquidated. Entering in to a CVA and not making the funds available to meet the CVA requirements is incredibly stupid. That EFL statements reads ‘angry’ to me. HMRC must surely get their way on Wednesday? They are also due to reappear in the High Court next Wednesday after a winding-up petition taken on by HM Revenue & Customs over an unpaid tax bill was adjourned in June for a third time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jsslatic Posted July 27, 2019 Share Posted July 27, 2019 No sympathy for Bury whatsoever. The club has had more lives than the Dalai Lama. Each occasion the buckets come back out. Christ when we played at Gigg Lane and Smith sent them down it was £19 in and when I waited for the quid back from my £20 they asked if they could keep the change. They get saved and then move onto the next faux sugar daddy and the whole shambles repeats itself. There's no humility until the vultures start circling again. The league should have stepped in last season. It was a joke that side was allowed their promotion when they hadn't been paid for three months or whatever it was. It was a patent disgrace at the time but lo and behold there were their fans on the pitch at Prenton Park with the team they couldn't pay at all (never mind a bit late). Fuck them. Let them start again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nzlatic Posted July 27, 2019 Share Posted July 27, 2019 8 minutes ago, jsslatic said: The league should have stepped in last season. It was a joke that side was allowed their promotion when they hadn't been paid for three months or whatever it was. The league did step in - to pay the wages. Actually that may have been the pfa but still it was a disgrace that their cheating was subsidised by the authorities. The points deduction should have applied quickly at the end of last season. Then further deductions this season for not getting it sorted yet. I’d be very pissed off if I was a Mansfield fan. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gaz_Oafc Posted July 27, 2019 Share Posted July 27, 2019 6 minutes ago, jsslatic said: No sympathy for Bury whatsoever. The club has had more lives than the Dalai Lama. Each occasion the buckets come back out. Christ when we played at Gigg Lane and Smith sent them down it was £19 in and when I waited for the quid back from my £20 they asked if they could keep the change. They get saved and then move onto the next faux sugar daddy and the whole shambles repeats itself. There's no humility until the vultures start circling again. The league should have stepped in last season. It was a joke that side was allowed their promotion when they hadn't been paid for three months or whatever it was. It was a patent disgrace at the time but lo and behold there were their fans on the pitch at Prenton Park with the team they couldn't pay at all (never mind a bit late). Fuck them. Let them start again. Agreed! I knew a Bury player who played under their previous owner, and it was around the time we in the press for late payment of wages. It used to annoy me that the media jumped all over us, yet left Bury well alone when in fact the situation there was a lot worse. He was NEVER paid on time, and regularly had bonuses (particularly appearance fees, which made up a lot of his wage ) held back. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kowenicki Posted July 27, 2019 Share Posted July 27, 2019 12 minutes ago, Gaz_Oafc said: Agreed! I knew a Bury player who played under their previous owner, and it was around the time we in the press for late payment of wages. It used to annoy me that the media jumped all over us, yet left Bury well alone when in fact the situation there was a lot worse. He was NEVER paid on time, and regularly had bonuses (particularly appearance fees, which made up a lot of his wage ) held back. ‘Media’ as in Keegan? Was only ever him, despite him having full knowledge of the Bury situation. Yet he ‘works’ for a national ‘newspaper’. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
latics22 Posted July 27, 2019 Share Posted July 27, 2019 3 hours ago, jsslatic said: No sympathy for Bury whatsoever. The club has had more lives than the Dalai Lama. Each occasion the buckets come back out. Christ when we played at Gigg Lane and Smith sent them down it was £19 in and when I waited for the quid back from my £20 they asked if they could keep the change. They get saved and then move onto the next faux sugar daddy and the whole shambles repeats itself. There's no humility until the vultures start circling again. The league should have stepped in last season. It was a joke that side was allowed their promotion when they hadn't been paid for three months or whatever it was. It was a patent disgrace at the time but lo and behold there were their fans on the pitch at Prenton Park with the team they couldn't pay at all (never mind a bit late). Fuck them. Let them start again. Didu let them keep the pound ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kowenicki Posted July 28, 2019 Share Posted July 28, 2019 https://www.telegraph.co.uk/football/2019/07/27/coventry-city-season-tickets-home-games-birmingham-fail-inspire/ messy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kowenicki Posted July 29, 2019 Share Posted July 29, 2019 just get on with it and expel the pair of them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
singe Posted July 29, 2019 Share Posted July 29, 2019 26 minutes ago, kowenicki said: just get on with it and expel the pair of them. Exactly. In what way is suspending a fixture any sort of punishment at all. No disincentive. It needs to be owners that are punished first and foremost not fans. Some sort of bond for the whole season needs to be implemented gooing forward, and maybe retrospectively for teams like Bury and Bolton. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GlossopLatic Posted July 29, 2019 Share Posted July 29, 2019 You know when everyone says that they have no sympathy if Bolton or Bury go bust you do realize the people who have caused this Ken Anderson and Stewart Day are not going to be punished in any way if they do it will be the fans that effectively have to pick up the pieces. If it was the owners being hung drawn and quartered for their reckless management then again I would have no sympathy but they are going to get away with it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kowenicki Posted July 29, 2019 Share Posted July 29, 2019 10 minutes ago, GlossopLatic said: You know when everyone says that they have no sympathy if Bolton or Bury go bust you do realize the people who have caused this Ken Anderson and Stewart Day are not going to be punished in any way if they do it will be the fans that effectively have to pick up the pieces. If it was the owners being hung drawn and quartered for their reckless management then again I would have no sympathy but they are going to get away with it. Makes no difference to me. If it happened to us I’d feel the same. I’d be gutted but we’d deserve it. There has to be serious consequences for clubs. It’s a mockery at the moment. Two teams that ‘cheated’ for years. I feel more sorry for Mansfield and whoever missed out on promotion when Bolton went back up. Very simplistic to blame Ken Anderson too. Very! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
singe Posted July 29, 2019 Share Posted July 29, 2019 16 minutes ago, kowenicki said: Makes no difference to me. If it happened to us I’d feel the same. I’d be gutted but we’d deserve it. There has to be serious consequences for clubs. It’s a mockery at the moment. Two teams that ‘cheated’ for years. I feel more sorry for Mansfield and whoever missed out on promotion when Bolton went back up. Very simplistic to blame Ken Anderson too. Very! Yeah, his son deserves some flak too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Magic Mikey Posted July 29, 2019 Share Posted July 29, 2019 1 hour ago, GlossopLatic said: You know when everyone says that they have no sympathy if Bolton or Bury go bust you do realize the people who have caused this Ken Anderson and Stewart Day are not going to be punished in any way if they do it will be the fans that effectively have to pick up the pieces. If it was the owners being hung drawn and quartered for their reckless management then again I would have no sympathy but they are going to get away with it. The fans have benefited from watching an exciting season and seeing their team promoted. All on the back of cheating. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
singe Posted July 29, 2019 Share Posted July 29, 2019 7 minutes ago, Magic Mikey said: The fans have benefited from watching an exciting season and seeing their team promoted. All on the back of cheating. It's a fair point, and Bury have been promoted by cheating, so I'd say Mansfield should take their place. In my case, I meant tougher sanctions on owners would mean less benefit being obtained ie promotion/more money in the long term and fans not the primary affected more focus on the owners.. Bolton however, can be less effectively punished this season so sanctions on owner/associates be more. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kowenicki Posted July 29, 2019 Share Posted July 29, 2019 2 hours ago, singe said: Yeah, his son deserves some flak too. As do Gartside and Davies. This problem is 20 years in the making. They are the very epitome of fur coat no nickers. Fans rode the success wave in full knowledge of a debt that grew to £200m... it wasn’t a secret. “But the ‘debt’ will never be called in, he’ll write it off” was the usual statement. Which missed the blindingly obvious issue. He did write it off... how did that work out for you? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
al_bro Posted July 29, 2019 Share Posted July 29, 2019 3 hours ago, singe said: Exactly. In what way is suspending a fixture any sort of punishment at all. No disincentive. It needs to be owners that are punished first and foremost not fans. Some sort of bond for the whole season needs to be implemented gooing forward, and maybe retrospectively for teams like Bury and Bolton. The fixture has been suspended, because the EFL don't want them to play at all if they can't show that they have the finances to complete their fixtures. Bury failed to comply on Friday and were given till lunchtime today, but that has now been extended to 5pm. I think they then enter a 14 day period in which to appeal against being thrown out of the league. It would give the EFL a headache as to what to do with the pointsm if either Bury or Bolton won, and then got thrown out. This way they can give all teams either nothing or 3 points when they were scheduled to play them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rudemedic Posted July 29, 2019 Share Posted July 29, 2019 8 minutes ago, al_bro said: The fixture has been suspended, because the EFL don't want them to play at all if they can't show that they have the finances to complete their fixtures. Bury failed to comply on Friday and were given till lunchtime today, but that has now been extended to 5pm. I think they then enter a 14 day period in which to appeal against being thrown out of the league. It would give the EFL a headache as to what to do with the pointsm if either Bury or Bolton won, and then got thrown out. This way they can give all teams either nothing or 3 points when they were scheduled to play them. I'm not sure what happens with our league should Bury and/or Bolton get thrown out. Presumably it will still be 4 up to League 1 but it won't necessarily be 2 down to the Conference. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
al_bro Posted July 29, 2019 Share Posted July 29, 2019 3 hours ago, kowenicki said: Makes no difference to me. If it happened to us I’d feel the same. I’d be gutted but we’d deserve it. There has to be serious consequences for clubs. It’s a mockery at the moment. Two teams that ‘cheated’ for years. I feel more sorry for Mansfield and whoever missed out on promotion when Bolton went back up. Very simplistic to blame Ken Anderson too. Very! I can't agree with you on this. If it happens to us, what could we have done about it? The vast majority on here want AL/ML out, and most wanted SC out before that. It's the EFL that needs a proper 'Fit and Proper Test'. Bury, Bolton, Coventry, and fans of other clubs, are at the mercy of their owners. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
al_bro Posted July 29, 2019 Share Posted July 29, 2019 15 minutes ago, rudemedic said: I'm not sure what happens with our league should Bury and/or Bolton get thrown out. Presumably it will still be 4 up to League 1 but it won't necessarily be 2 down to the Conference. I think it would, because Bury and Bolton or any club thrown out, would have to start again from the lowest tier, well below the Conference. However I guess only two will be relegated from L1, if both Bury and Bolton go. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lookersstandandy Posted July 29, 2019 Share Posted July 29, 2019 33 minutes ago, rudemedic said: I'm not sure what happens with our league should Bury and/or Bolton get thrown out. Presumably it will still be 4 up to League 1 but it won't necessarily be 2 down to the Conference. ...fk me... hadn't thought of that. This could be a blessing in disguise. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kowenicki Posted July 29, 2019 Share Posted July 29, 2019 42 minutes ago, al_bro said: I can't agree with you on this. If it happens to us, what could we have done about it? The vast majority on here want AL/ML out, and most wanted SC out before that. It's the EFL that needs a proper 'Fit and Proper Test'. Bury, Bolton, Coventry, and fans of other clubs, are at the mercy of their owners. All privately owned clubs fans are at the mercy of their owners. Fit and proper tests are useful for the day of the transaction and that day only. They don’t stop an owner going rogue afterwards. They are a very blunt and limited test. Also...was the guy that threw literally hundreds of millions at Bolton fit and proper? He’d have sailed through any test. Yet his actions have directly led to a famous club potentially vanishing. He built a huge unprofitable business around his constant bank rolling. He walks away and wipes out his £200m debt... great... but they are then left with a massively unsustainable business that was doomed to spectacular and catostrphic failure. So obvious. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
al_bro Posted July 29, 2019 Share Posted July 29, 2019 3 minutes ago, kowenicki said: All privately owned clubs fans are at the mercy of their owners. Fit and proper tests are useful for the day of the transaction and that day only. They don’t stop an owner going rogue afterwards. They are a very blunt and limited test. Also...was the guy that threw literally hundreds of millions at Bolton fit and proper? He’d have sailed through any test. Yet his actions have directly led to a famous club potentially vanishing. He built a huge unprofitable business around his constant bank rolling. He walks away and wipes out his £200m debt... great... but they are then left with a massively unsustainable business that was doomed to spectacular and catostrphic failure. So obvious. 4 minutes ago, kowenicki said: All privately owned clubs fans are at the mercy of their owners. Fit and proper tests are useful for the day of the transaction and that day only. They don’t stop an owner going rogue afterwards. They are a very blunt and limited test. Also...was the guy that threw literally hundreds of millions at Bolton fit and proper? He’d have sailed through any test. Yet his actions have directly led to a famous club potentially vanishing. He built a huge unprofitable business around his constant bank rolling. He walks away and wipes out his £200m debt... great... but they are then left with a massively unsustainable business that was doomed to spectacular and catostrphic failure. So obvious. Agreed, but why do the fans (which are the club) deserve it, as you said originally? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kowenicki Posted July 29, 2019 Share Posted July 29, 2019 4 minutes ago, al_bro said: Agreed, but why do the fans (which are the club) deserve it, as you said originally? When I say “we” or “they” deserve it, I mean the clubs. If Bury go bust then “they” deserve it. I feel for some of their fans and not for others. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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