JoeP Posted February 2, 2018 Share Posted February 2, 2018 9 hours ago, b0ndl1ne said: Can you blame him? He says he wants to turn the mentality and culture of the club around and is hampered at every turn. I’d much rather we have a manager who is honest and see through than someone who is monotone and churns out the verbatim statements that most other managers make, see Robinson, Kelly, Shez. The man was a winner in his playing career, a recent career not one 20years ago. He knows what is needed to get us out of this league. Do you think if Scholes had been given the job and then experienced this he would have been any different to Wellens? Of course he wouldn’t, he would probably have walked. Then add on players getting injured on a bog of a pitch and regularly being unable to train on said pitch and there’s a recipe for failure. Wellens sees these players every day, not just what they do at 3pm on a Saturday. If they’ve not got the mentality that he believes is needed and wants to bring in players who do then we have to trust him and back him not criticise and doubt. Everything you've said there you could apply to David Dunn. Scholes would have been a worse appointment because he wouldn't have had a clue what he was getting into. RW did. More often than not, things won't go your way at Latics. You can't do anything about it - you just have to crack on and remain positive. I might have more sympathy if he'd been in the job a few years, but it's only been a few months. He didn't seem too bothered about not being able to bring in "his" players when we were winning and things were going well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gary1906 Posted February 2, 2018 Share Posted February 2, 2018 9 hours ago, Buckshawlatic said: Robinson regularly (every week from day 1) said we should be bottom of the league why does everyone keep saying “foreigners” like that in itself is automatically a negative? bet City are furious Augero isn’t English Kuqui, Pogliacomi, Stam, Wijnhard, Kusunga, Lanzoni were all “foreign” they did ok for us as did Gunnar Halle There’s a difference though between foreign players and sub-standard foreign players. We have seen too much of the latter lately. No affinity to the club, just looking for a game at any club that will have them and unfortunately due to our dire financial position in recent times we’ve fallen for them. Quite clearly they’ve not been good enough though otherwise they’d be in the team week in week out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
b0ndl1ne Posted February 2, 2018 Share Posted February 2, 2018 15 minutes ago, JoeP said: Everything you've said there you could apply to David Dunn. Scholes would have been a worse appointment because he wouldn't have had a clue what he was getting into. RW did. More often than not, things won't go your way at Latics. You can't do anything about it - you just have to crack on and remain positive. I might have more sympathy if he'd been in the job a few years, but it's only been a few months. He didn't seem too bothered about not being able to bring in "his" players when we were winning and things were going well. Thats true. I think Wellens then realised these players can’t maintain a high level of performance. I guess this explains why they are in League 1. I can’t help think that if he was being Mr Positive, we’d all be saying he’s deluded and/or lying. Then when he calls it as he sees it we give him grief too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoeP Posted February 2, 2018 Share Posted February 2, 2018 4 minutes ago, b0ndl1ne said: Thats true. I think Wellens then realised these players can’t maintain a high level of performance. I guess this explains why they are in League 1. I can’t help think that if he was being Mr Positive, we’d all be saying he’s deluded and/or lying. Then when he calls it as he sees it we give him grief too. True that. I think it's about striking the right balance and keeping calm under pressure. LJ was/is good at it.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yarddog73 Posted February 2, 2018 Share Posted February 2, 2018 I see anyone who has any concerns about how things go on at the club is being labelled yet again as having an agenda (Wellens included). What a load of bollocks that is, Wellens is probably more aware than anyone whats going on behind the scenes and his concerns are not being raised out of self interest but from genuine concerns, maybe he realises that this squad isn't up to keeping us in this division and the two key players he wanted he's missed out on, I keep reading about this squad is the best we have had for years - really? A look at the league table tells you all you need to know, one thing it is is the most disjointed, fragmented squad we've had full of round pegs and deadwood who are never gonna get into the team, no manger in the land could work under those circumstances. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gary1906 Posted February 2, 2018 Share Posted February 2, 2018 7 minutes ago, yarddog73 said: I see anyone who has any concerns about how things go on at the club is being labelled yet again as having an agenda (Wellens included). What a load of bollocks that is, Wellens is probably more aware than anyone whats going on behind the scenes and his concerns are not being raised out of self interest but from genuine concerns, maybe he realises that this squad isn't up to keeping us in this division and the two key players he wanted he's missed out on, I keep reading about this squad is the best we have had for years - really? A look at the league table tells you all you need to know, one thing it is is the most disjointed, fragmented squad we've had full of round pegs and deadwood who are never gonna get into the team, no manger in the land could work under those circumstances. Spot on. I hope we can survive this season, and Wellens is given some proper backing in the close season to get rid of the deadwood and try to bring some quality in. If he’s got the players I think he - and the club - will be successful. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deyres42 Posted February 2, 2018 Share Posted February 2, 2018 Eight players in albeit they weren't all his choices, quite a few out, at some point you just have to get on with it and try to improve the ones you have. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yarddog73 Posted February 2, 2018 Share Posted February 2, 2018 26 minutes ago, deyres42 said: Eight players in albeit they weren't all his choices, quite a few out, at some point you just have to get on with it and try to improve the ones you have. I think he will be doing just that, whether or not thats enough who knows. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kowenicki Posted February 2, 2018 Share Posted February 2, 2018 2 hours ago, Gary1906 said: Can’t disagree with any of this. He’s a bright, young manager who wants to be successful. The fact that we could have got 2 players in who Barnsley and Wigan feel are good enough for their squads is a good sign in a way, but Wellens is obviously frustrated that the powers that be couldn’t push the boat out for at least one of them. I think he’s potentially got a good future as a manager, the way that he got the team playing earlier in the season shows that. Every manager though is really only as good as his players, and unfortunately we don’t have a strong enough group. RW recognises that of course. He could be at the wrong club if we can’t match his ambitions. Which is of course a guess. Maybe they just didn't fancy joining a club that is at the foot of the table and managed by a Rookie? Maybe its a combination of factors. We don't know. People are getting way ahead of themselves on RW's ability... he has done nothing yet and proved nothing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
singe Posted February 2, 2018 Share Posted February 2, 2018 1 hour ago, yarddog73 said: I see anyone who has any concerns about how things go on at the club is being labelled yet again as having an agenda (Wellens included). What a load of bollocks that is, Wellens is probably more aware than anyone whats going on behind the scenes and his concerns are not being raised out of self interest but from genuine concerns, maybe he realises that this squad isn't up to keeping us in this division and the two key players he wanted he's missed out on, I keep reading about this squad is the best we have had for years - really? A look at the league table tells you all you need to know, one thing it is is the most disjointed, fragmented squad we've had full of round pegs and deadwood who are never gonna get into the team, no manger in the land could work under those circumstances. 1 hour ago, Gary1906 said: Spot on. I hope we can survive this season, and Wellens is given some proper backing in the close season to get rid of the deadwood and try to bring some quality in. If he’s got the players I think he - and the club - will be successful. They might not be the best team we have had in years, but they are the amongst some of the best players individually we have had in a long time. I believe RW has the ability to get the best out of them as he has proven for a time, but I feel he is distracted by off the ffield events nad needs to develop a siege mentality and get some help in the form of an Asst Mgr. A bit like Jack Byrne he is trying to do it all himself. Maybe that will be his Achilles Heel, thinking he is the only one that can do it. He's talked of the need to change because of the pitch (true but another blame elsewhere) and maybe personnel available too, so that will give a clear indication. Here's hoping it brings a change in fortune. Survive and I think we'll prosper. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
latics22 Posted February 2, 2018 Share Posted February 2, 2018 He hasn’t had anyone forced on him, they were already there. He turned down all the ones at flyde, he didn’t plan back ups if he didn’t get his first choice players in. He’s blaming everyone but himself for this run, he has had lucky start now he’s in deep trouble and not doing anything right. We need a older experienced manager ASAP Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HarryBosch Posted February 2, 2018 Share Posted February 2, 2018 1 hour ago, b0ndl1ne said: I can’t help think that if he was being Mr Positive, we’d all be saying he’s deluded and/or lying. Then when he calls it as he sees it we give him grief too. Yep. His demeanour concerns me on the one hand but on the other at least he cares. And cares deeply by the looks of it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheBigDog Posted February 2, 2018 Share Posted February 2, 2018 4 minutes ago, latics22 said: He hasn’t had anyone forced on him, they were already there. He turned down all the ones at flyde, he didn’t plan back ups if he didn’t get his first choice players in. He’s blaming everyone but himself for this run, he has had lucky start now he’s in deep trouble and not doing anything right. We need a older experienced manager ASAP https://www.oldhamathletic.co.uk/news/2018/january/28012018-wellens-post-plymouth/ Wellens is clearly aware that things need to change. He talks of ‘we’ so definitely is including himself in taking responsibility for the recent poor run. February is going to be a key month for us all (and Richie in particular) - he will sink or swim depending on the next few results. I still back him to turn this around but I am not blinkered to believe that he can survive if we don’t start to win games. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cmr Posted February 2, 2018 Share Posted February 2, 2018 28 minutes ago, deyres42 said: Eight players in albeit they weren't all his choices, quite a few out, at some point you just have to get on with it and try to improve the ones you have. Does anyone have any actual evidence that RW didn't want to sign these players? or evidence that they're on a wedge? As AL said at the takeover, the final decision is with RW, yes these players have come from AL's contacts but RW has the final say, some have worked, some haven't... where they come from doesn't really matter does it? Not sure why people are bringing Scholes up, I really don't want him as a manager because his personality doesn't suit management and he's only been at 1 club his whole career. I think being at one club is really detrimental because you need to learn from different coaches, managers and combine that experience to become your own manager. Giggs will be a prime example when he makes a hash of the Wales job. He said he wouldn't take a job outside of the premiership because it would be a "step down"... from what? zero managerial experience? deluded Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
League one forever Posted February 2, 2018 Share Posted February 2, 2018 He didn’t come into the job from the outside, and suddenly go ‘shit, what have I come into here!?’ He’d had 3 months working closely with shez, he saw how AL’s signings we’re affecting/or not the team, he saw the toll it took on shez. He had a chance to have a good look at the squad before he took over. Having seen all that. . .he was desperate for the job! I understand being on the perifery on things and being in the position yourself are two different things, but where has that early drive gone?? I said the other day, more than the moaning (never a good sign) he looks beat down by the job- a lot similar to shez. But I can look past shez, because of what he did for us and the shitstorms he got us through. I understand it’s a difficult job, made more so by the structure of things IMO. BUT the first window AL had to back him he’s let him sign 6/7 players. Talking about players who’ve not come is bollocks, talk about who’s here and start concentrating on getting us out of the shit. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gary1906 Posted February 2, 2018 Share Posted February 2, 2018 1 hour ago, kowenicki said: Which is of course a guess. Maybe they just didn't fancy joining a club that is at the foot of the table and managed by a Rookie? Maybe its a combination of factors. We don't know. People are getting way ahead of themselves on RW's ability... he has done nothing yet and proved nothing. Not a guess if you watch and listen to his press conference. He said that we could have got Matt Mills if we’d offered him an extra year. This is a player that Barnsley clearly rate but we wouldn’t do the necessary to get him. He also said that we could have got Devante Cole if we’d been more aggressive. Obviously what that means is open to debate but I saw it as a thinly veiled dig at the hierarchy and moneymen at Boundary Park. Both players went to clubs higher up than us. In one way it’s good that we was in for them but obviously frustrating that we couldn’t have gone a bit further particularly with our precarious League position. Speculate to accumulate and all that ....... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
palmer1 Posted February 2, 2018 Share Posted February 2, 2018 Since when did a manager actually telling people how it is and what happened become a bad thing? social media is constantly talking about lack of communication and lack of transparency from people within the club and when someone finally explains why something didn't happen (transfers) in detail he told to 'shut the fuck up and get on with it!' 'stop moaning!' An agreement to get a defender (a friend as well) is made only for a championship club to take him on the final hours due to league position would piss anyone off I like Wellens and like his interview style. He doesn't stand fools and im sure he gets frustrated which shows sometimes (Shez was the same) but wouldn't you if youre being met with nothing but road blocks constantly and then answering the same questions over and over again everyday ? He is getting on with things but if the club or Wellens had said nothing there would be rumours we did nothing to get people in and how shit we are. Sometimes they cant win Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gary1906 Posted February 2, 2018 Share Posted February 2, 2018 3 minutes ago, palmer1 said: Since when did a manager actually telling people how it is and what happened become a bad thing? social media is constantly talking about lack of communication and lack of transparency from people within the club and when someone finally explains why something didn't happen (transfers) in detail he told to 'shut the fuck up and get on with it!' 'stop moaning!' An agreement to get a defender (a friend as well) is made only for a championship club to take him on the final hours due to league position would piss anyone off I like Wellens and like his interview style. He doesn't stand fools and im sure he gets frustrated which shows sometimes (Shez was the same) but wouldn't you if youre being met with nothing but road blocks constantly and then answering the same questions over and over again everyday ? He is getting on with things but if the club or Wellens had said nothing there would be rumours we did nothing to get people in and how shit we are. Sometimes they cant win They are damned if they do and damned if they don’t. Personally I think Wellens - compared to Shez - is much more open in his interviews. It might be due to him being new to the job and it might show some naivety on his part. Some people will always look to find fault though no matter what is said or not said. I hope he carries on the way he has been though, it’s refreshing to hear. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
League one forever Posted February 2, 2018 Share Posted February 2, 2018 27 minutes ago, palmer1 said: Since when did a manager actually telling people how it is and what happened become a bad thing? social media is constantly talking about lack of communication and lack of transparency from people within the club and when someone finally explains why something didn't happen (transfers) in detail he told to 'shut the fuck up and get on with it!' 'stop moaning!' An agreement to get a defender (a friend as well) is made only for a championship club to take him on the final hours due to league position would piss anyone off I like Wellens and like his interview style. He doesn't stand fools and im sure he gets frustrated which shows sometimes (Shez was the same) but wouldn't you if youre being met with nothing but road blocks constantly and then answering the same questions over and over again everyday ? He is getting on with things but if the club or Wellens had said nothing there would be rumours we did nothing to get people in and how shit we are. Sometimes they cant win I can totally see why he’s pissed off, and in certain areas I agree with him. But he knew the score when he took the job. The point with his interviews is not what you say but how you say it. I like his honesty, but there is a world of difference between ‘we weren’t aggressive enough with the two players, we couldn’t agree another year for Matt mills it’s really frustrating.’ or we were in for two players who I thought would be excellent, but we couldn’t get them over line, but I’ve got 6/7 in, and we need to come together now, and move up the table’ He sounds more and more like he’s having a dig at the club, the structure, the lack of quality, what we can pay. He talks about one of those things all the time now. Not good. We are where we are. I want him to have say. . but he’s still the manager. A bit more balance wouldn’t go a miss. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoeP Posted February 2, 2018 Share Posted February 2, 2018 (edited) 50 minutes ago, palmer1 said: Since when did a manager actually telling people how it is and what happened become a bad thing? social media is constantly talking about lack of communication and lack of transparency from people within the club and when someone finally explains why something didn't happen (transfers) in detail he told to 'shut the fuck up and get on with it!' 'stop moaning!' An agreement to get a defender (a friend as well) is made only for a championship club to take him on the final hours due to league position would piss anyone off I like Wellens and like his interview style. He doesn't stand fools and im sure he gets frustrated which shows sometimes (Shez was the same) but wouldn't you if youre being met with nothing but road blocks constantly and then answering the same questions over and over again everyday ? He is getting on with things but if the club or Wellens had said nothing there would be rumours we did nothing to get people in and how shit we are. Sometimes they cant win It's more about how he's spinning the things happening at the club. He sounds beaten before tomorrow's game before a ball's been kicked. How is that good? And the club can't win, but different people have different views. Edited February 2, 2018 by JoeP Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
palmer1 Posted February 2, 2018 Share Posted February 2, 2018 (edited) It's not what he says it'd how he says it! If ever youre looking for proof some fans are looking for nothing but negatives there it us! Don't forget to smile Ritchie! Edited February 2, 2018 by palmer1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HarryBosch Posted February 2, 2018 Share Posted February 2, 2018 3 hours ago, deyres42 said: Eight players in albeit they weren't all his choices, quite a few out, at some point you just have to get on with it and try to improve the ones you have. Twice a season in fact.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
League one forever Posted February 2, 2018 Share Posted February 2, 2018 17 minutes ago, palmer1 said: It's not what he says it'd how he says it! If ever youre looking for proof are looking for negatives there it us! Don't forget to smile Ritchie! Eh? Proof of what????? Im giving an opinion. On a forum. Why do you and others dismiss people as negative when they challenge your point? Isn’t that point of a forum? To reply it’s proof of negativity is wrong and lazy. I take it from your post, your loving listening to him go on about how hard the job is? A job he craved for three months ago. I on the other hand would like some POSITIVITY from him, get the players, fans to come together for the mess we’re in. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
singe Posted February 2, 2018 Share Posted February 2, 2018 It's not his honesty, that is welcome and refreshing, it's the looking beaten Very few are actively Wellens out. Many are voicing concerns because some indicators are there. Dunn-esque blaming everyone. Shez and the end esque looking beat. Alarm bells, but only stage 1 alert. A win tomorrow and the pressure will ease quite a lor because of the win, because he's show he can motivate, because he can change tactics. If we lose, against a team that has W1 L9 of their last 10 games conceding 23 i the process and there will be more questions inevitably. We need a win. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
League one forever Posted February 2, 2018 Share Posted February 2, 2018 3 minutes ago, singe said: It's not his honesty, that is welcome and refreshing, it's the looking beaten Very few are actively Wellens out. Many are voicing concerns because some indicators are there. Dunn-esque blaming everyone. Shez and the end esque looking beat. Alarm bells, but only stage 1 alert. A win tomorrow and the pressure will ease quite a lor because of the win, because he's show he can motivate, because he can change tactics. If we lose, against a team that has W1 L9 of their last 10 games conceding 23 i the process and there will be more questions inevitably. We need a win. Spot on. That’s exactly where I’m at. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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