Wellens.

[welshgaz]

19 minutes ago, Lee Sinnott said:

Can't be bothered quoting your whole post, Palmer, but just a little point about Shez : we weren't exactly cut adrift when he left. We were 3 points off 20th position. Although we cannot say for certain, I am convinced he would have got us safe with ease. He only had 2 weeks working with the players he was desperate to bring in (Bryan, Doyle and Byrne) after arguing for months with Corney/Lemsagam about trying to sign in. He then went into the Rotherham game without Doyle, who got himself sent off with a stupid tackle in the Shrewsbury game, probably in frustration at himself for missing an open goal when it was 1-1 (we ended up losing 2-1).

 

However, I completely agree that the keeper problem lay firmly at the feet of Sheridan...

Shez also started a game with Hunt in centre mid. Signs of a man who would do all he could rather than play Fane. 

[nzlatic]

No one has suggested that by wanting to keep Wellens they want to keep the current form. Or that they’re accepting mediocrity. Or defending bang average. 

 

No one has called Wellens a miracle worker or fucking Jesus. 

 

Some of my reasons for wanting to keep him on are:

- potential style of football (not just the first 4 games, longer than that) 

- affinity with the club and fans

- his desire to build for the long term

- he’s well connected and seems to be able to attract decent players 

 

Finally, I’m willing to cut him some slack for our recent form not only due to the very real negative factors he has had to deal with (as have other managers before him), but because he’s only been a football manager for 6 months!!!

[rudemedic]

5 minutes ago, welshgaz said:

Shez also started a game with Hunt in centre mid. Signs of a man who would do all he could rather than play Fane. 

Should have been given an extended contract for that alone. ?

[rudemedic]

14 minutes ago, palmer1 said:

 

Cut adrift may be a bit strong but 3 points away from 20th would see us down. How far off safety were we? I have no record but several wins were needed from memory? He may have kept us up but it certainly looked bad and at Rovrum many accounts pointed to players giving up on him.

3 points from safety. 1 win from safety. 

 

We could be in essentially exactly the same position after Saturday. But instead of having 3 games left we had 37. We were a point behind Plymouth, who are now fighting for a play-off spot. 

 

Given the turnaround Shez has shown in the last 3 seasons, there is some evidence we'd now be in better position with Shez still in charge. 

[deyres42]

Sheridan should have been sacked in the changing rooms at Blackpool after naming only three subs.

[astottie]

49 minutes ago, rudemedic said:

3 points from safety. 1 win from safety. 

 

We could be in essentially exactly the same position after Saturday. But instead of having 3 games left we had 37. We were a point behind Plymouth, who are now fighting for a play-off spot. 

 

Given the turnaround Shez has shown in the last 3 seasons, there is some evidence we'd now be in better position with Shez still in charge. 

Whilst i think you make a logical and coherent argument i went to Rotherham and came away thinking id seen one of the worst teams and performances id seen in my 40+ years watching. Any signs of recovery were a long way away.

[Lee Sinnott]

35 minutes ago, deyres42 said:

Sheridan should have been sacked in the changing rooms at Blackpool after naming only three subs.

I genuinely think that is the reason he did it...

[League one forever]

3 hours ago, palmer1 said:

Shez had less backing? Who brought in Byrne, Kean, Doyle? Who had the pre season to put the squad together? Shez left us this current situation cut adrift at the bottom. He worked miracles previous years but left us in the shit this time for ever reason.

 

Infatuated with defending the average? Its funny because all I do on here is tell people to strive for more but I don't make judgments to quick. I certainly don't go from 50/50 to 60/40 and the too all out 0/100 Wellens out in 8 pages of a thread after 2 draws and zero movement in the table where we haven't even dropped into the bottom 4 but I won't talk negativity in Oldham fans.

 

I can see potential in Wellens and I you think I'm deluded because I try to take all things into consideration before forming an opinion on players and managers then so be it. Ive backed my opinion against most on here many times and im generally not far off. Time will tell on this but I can say one thing for absolute certain, sacking a manager every season or in this case far less is fkn stupid and won't bring any kind of success. We've been doing it for 20 years...hows that worked out?

 

The top of the post makes no sense. 

 

Wellens has had far more backing 

than shez got. Shez turned it around with far less games, time, and backing. 

 

In the last 15 years, (apart from Ronnie Moore, who should never of been sacked) name me one manager who you think we treated unfairly, or didn’t deserve the sack??

 

Just one?

 

Its a total myth, that we somehow sack good managers. 

 

The blame for the merry go round is nothing to do with all these managers being really unlucky. It’s because they were shit at the job, and shouldn’t of been appionted. It was our former chairman’s policy to go for rookie or cheap or usually both. 

 

The highlight being us appointing an under 9’s coach. 

 

 

[nzlatic]

1 minute ago, League one forever said:

 

The top of the post makes no sense. 

 

Wellens has had far more backing 

than shez got. Shez turned it around with far less games, time, and backing. 

 

In the last 15 years, (apart from Ronnie Moore, who should never of been sacked) name me one manager who you think we treated unfairly, or didn’t deserve the sack??

 

Just one?

 

Its a total myth, that we somehow sack good managers. 

 

The blame for the merry go round is nothing to do with all these managers being really unlucky. It’s because they were shit at the job, and shouldn’t of been appionted. It was our former chairman’s policy to go for rookie or cheap or usually both. 

 

The highlight being us appointing an under 9’s coach. 

 

 

Robinson, Dunn, Kelly - none of those had the run of results that Wellens did. They were bad from the start.

 

Johnson had a good run and got given time despite bad spells, even though his one full season with us had us in 15th place. Should he have been sacked after that?

 

Dickov had a great start and got given time despite bad spells.

 

Wellens has shown some promise - hence some of us having the opinion that it's worthwhile giving him more time.

[tGWB]

Cant help thinking that Mr. Lemsagam is keeping a low profile, has got his fingers crossed that we simply survive the drop, so he can bring in his Manager of choice during the summer

 

Simple as  . . . . .

[League one forever]

12 minutes ago, nzlatic said:

Robinson, Dunn, Kelly - none of those had the run of results that Wellens did. They were bad from the start.

 

Johnson had a good run and got given time despite bad spells, even though his one full season with us had us in 15th place. Should he have been sacked after that?

 

Dickov had a great start and got given time despite bad spells.

 

Wellens has shown some promise - hence some of us having the opinion that it's worthwhile giving him more time.

I’ve said on a few posts, LJ and shez have been our most decent managers. You could tell from the off, LJ had nouse. He made plenty of mistakes, but he learnt quickly, and didn’t repeat them. He showed we were on an upward curve. Hence why Corney gave him an unprecedented lengthy contact about 9 months after he joined. He knew he’d leave for a better job, and wanted his compo. 

 

 

Dickov, what are you saying? He was given time- which he was and proved what? He was shit? The football towards the end was abject. He repeated exactly what he did with us at Donny. Hasn’t worked since. 

 

I’ve also said, I’d love to see us 15th and safe, and really hoping wellens could have a good go next year. 

 

But we’re not. 

 

He’s under performing. 

[singe]

2 hours ago, palmer1 said:

 

We were bottom of the league with 1 win and we almost blew that at Bristol. Cut adrift may be a bit strong but 3 points away from 20th would see us down. How far off safety were we? I have no record but several wins were needed from memory? He may have kept us up but it certainly looked bad and at Rovrum many accounts pointed to players giving up on him.

 

For the record I wanted Shez to stay also. 

 

And sorry Paddy if we can't mention the circumstances RW works under in this thread we certainly can't mention suspensions under Shez. 

Arguably our form and the tactics etc have been worse since the "takeover" was finalised.

[deyres42]

4 minutes ago, League one forever said:

I’ve said on a few posts, LJ and shez have been our most decent managers. You could tell from the off, LJ had nouse. He made plenty of mistakes, but he learnt quickly, and didn’t repeat them. He showed we were on an upward curve. Hence why Corney gave him an unprecedented lengthy contact about 9 months after he joined. He knew he’d leave for a better job, and wanted his compo. 

 

 

Dickov, what are you saying? He was given time- which he was and proved what? He was shit? The football towards the end was abject. He repeated exactly what he did with us at Donny. Hasn’t worked since. 

 

I’ve also said, I’d love to see us 15th and safe, and really hoping wellens could have a good go next year. 

 

But we’re not. 

 

He’s under performing. 

Underperforming measured against what?

[League one forever]

5 minutes ago, deyres42 said:

Underperforming measured against what?

League position. 

Players at his disposal. 

Previous good managers records. 

Enough time in the job to make a judgement. 

Learning or not from inevatble mistakes. 

 

[deyres42]

2 minutes ago, League one forever said:

League position. 

Players at his disposal. 

Previous good managers records. 

Enough time in the job to make a judgement. 

Learning or not from inevatble mistakes. 

 

Measuring against previous managers is daft due to different circumstances.

 

Very few of our players would improve other sides.

 

Last time I looked shot data for the season had us about 16/17th.

[League one forever]

6 minutes ago, deyres42 said:

Measuring against previous managers is daft due to different circumstances.

 

Very few of our players would improve other sides.

 

Last time I looked shot data for the season had us about 16/17th.

Why is it daft?

 

It gives you a measure of what’s avheiveable under similar circumstances. 

 

We’ve got plenty of players other sides would take. 

 

Id be happy with 16th. We would very likely be safe, and looking forward to next year. 

[GlossopLatic]

How much responsibility do the players take here? I think they have to take a fair share aswell.

 

[Kusunga_Is_God]

2 hours ago, nzlatic said:

Robinson, Dunn, Kelly - none of those had the run of results that Wellens did. They were bad from the start.

 

Johnson had a good run and got given time despite bad spells, even though his one full season with us had us in 15th place. Should he have been sacked after that?

 

Dickov had a great start and got given time despite bad spells.

 

Wellens has shown some promise - hence some of us having the opinion that it's worthwhile giving him more time.

Wellens has that bright start and has not been able to replicate it since. The record since January has been horrific. Why?

[deyres42]

1 hour ago, League one forever said:

Why is it daft?

 

It gives you a measure of what’s avheiveable under similar circumstances. 

 

We’ve got plenty of players other sides would take. 

 

Id be happy with 16th. We would very likely be safe, and looking forward to next year. 

Win the last four and we probably finish 16th.

 

Byrne, Doyle, can't imagine others being on the radar.

[HarryBosch]

13 hours ago, simplythemostimportantkick said:

Nice sentiment. Trouble is , as soon as we do get another LJ they will be off to bigger and better things at the first opportunity. Then it’s back to square one. Then we go through another ten managers until another gem turns up and hey ho , up and away they go. 

 

I keep seeing posts and tweets like this on numerous subjects and wonder have you forgotten we have a new owner and things might now be different?

[HarryBosch]

4 hours ago, rudemedic said:

3 points from safety. 1 win from safety. 

 

We could be in essentially exactly the same position after Saturday. But instead of having 3 games left we had 37. We were a point behind Plymouth, who are now fighting for a play-off spot. 

 

Given the turnaround Shez has shown in the last 3 seasons, there is some evidence we'd now be in better position with Shez still in charge. 

 

He'd lost the dressing room though by all accounts. Certainly Gerrard and Clarke anyway.... 

[leeslover]

4 minutes ago, HarryBosch said:

 

He'd lost the dressing room though by all accounts. Certainly Gerrard and Clarke anyway.... 

If he lost Gerrard surely he would just have followed the trail of crumbs until he found him again?

[League one forever]

4 hours ago, nzlatic said:

No one has suggested that by wanting to keep Wellens they want to keep the current form. Or that they’re accepting mediocrity. Or defending bang average. 

 

No one has called Wellens a miracle worker or fucking Jesus. 

 

Some of my reasons for wanting to keep him on are:

- potential style of football (not just the first 4 games, longer than that) 

- affinity with the club and fans

- his desire to build for the long term

- he’s well connected and seems to be able to attract decent players 

 

Finally, I’m willing to cut him some slack for our recent form not only due to the very real negative factors he has had to deal with (as have other managers before him), but because he’s only been a football manager for 6 months!!!

Potential style of play? 

 

What that does mean- We might be good one day? Football is here and now. Not in six months. We all know that. 

 

I agree he has an affinity, but it only matters to us as fans. It doesn’t affect his decision making.

 

Who has HE brought in, that you’ve thought is a good player? 

 

 

 

It seems im in a minority - a very small one. Who thinks he’s had enough time for us to judge him. 

 

Fair enough. Time will tell. 

 

[latics22]

The 3 best players we have, were signed by shez we were turning the corner at fleetwood and another team I can’t recall. We then lost 4 or 5 -1. I think he would have turned it around, in fact I’m certain he would. If anything, the good run of form wellens “oversaw” we’re the team and form shez was prouducing bar the blip. Since then wellens has ruined those 3 players, bryne is out of position, Doyle is being fed long balls and Bryan looked out of sorts before injury. Since then Wellens has had the luxury of those 3 players, with a even bigger budget for Pringle beni benteke. He had 1 defender lined up that fell through and has moaned about that and Cole falling through. The money must have been there, where were his second third choice players??? Our form has Nose dived and people think he should stay???

[nzlatic]

4 minutes ago, League one forever said:

Potential style of play? 

 

What that does mean- We might be good one day? Football is here and now. Not in six months. We all know that. 

 

I agree he has an affinity, but it only matters to us as fans. It doesn’t affect his decision making.

 

Who has HE brought in, that you’ve thought is a good player? 

 

 

 

It seems im in a minority - a very small one. Who thinks he’s had enough time for us to judge him. 

 

Fair enough. Time will tell. 

 

As I've already said, he re-signed Doyle, Bryan and Byrne.  All of which were getting offers elsewhere.  He persuaded them to stick around for a relegation dog fight.

 

Potential style of play - he's proved already what he can do in the right circumstances.  The football at the start of his tenure was the best we've seen for ages.

 

If you take his points per game and apply it over the full season then it's mid table form.  If we stay up, keep him on and he does the same and we finish 13th next season, would you sack then or not?