Crusoe Posted June 12, 2018 Share Posted June 12, 2018 Good post. Although not sure that Osei, Turner, Stephens or Smith say anything about the youth team as they were all signed on professional deals. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
latics22 Posted June 12, 2018 Share Posted June 12, 2018 38 minutes ago, unsworthlatic said: I think our youth system has been quite successful based on the competitors we are faced with in the local area. The better players at under 10’s-16’s get taken for very little by the likes of City and United. Other clubs do well with youth systems (not too many) and some are thinking that it’s a thankless task funding a youth setup such as Huddersfield and Brentford who have decided to scrap the academy idea altogether. The last 10 years, I thought I’d have a look to see if my argument was supported in any way. We have had the following youth products (including a couple that had been sold and returned to Latics) that have played league games for Oldham. Joel Coleman Jamie Stott Tom Hamer George Edmundson James Tarkowski Neal Eardley Kelvin Lomax Paul Black Glenn Belezika Neal Trotman Jack Truelove David Mellor Carl Winchester Mark Allott Deane Smalley Kirk Millar Jack Tuohy Kallum Mantack Danny Philliskirk Chris Taylor Matthew Wolfenden Tom Eaves Lewis Alessandra Ryan Brooke That’s a total of 24. I’d hazard a guess that not too many teams will have played 24 youth products in league games over the last 10 years or so. As you would expect, some were better than others, some were sold i.e Coleman, Tarkowski, Eaves. Others released. Some still playing for us now, others at other clubs (some within the football league) We have also had a couple prior to the last 10 years and within the 10 year period that were sold prior to playing a game, Scott Spencer and Chris Renshaw come to mind. As well as this, we have searched for young talent elsewhere, basically post academy graduates or non league: Darius Osei Rhys Turner Dale Stephens Matt Smith Those 4 spring to mind without looking deeper into it, two of those 4 were sold on. Safe to say I think it has been fairly successful. I’d close the academy based on producing winchester! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
singe Posted June 12, 2018 Share Posted June 12, 2018 2 hours ago, Crusoe said: Trying to track them down would take a while. Most dropped to NPL or NWCL based on a quick glance. Not sure if any recent departures have made it back to the National League, let alone League. Luke Simpson played a few games but seems to be a free agent after leaving York City. I know I said it would be interesting to track where, but I definitely wasn't asking you to do it!!!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cmr Posted June 12, 2018 Share Posted June 12, 2018 2 hours ago, deyres42 said: Very difficult task with the category system I'd think, anyone showing promise at early age can be winkled out for buttons, can understand why some clubs have given it up. Clubs gave it up due to the new rules introduced, EPPP Elite Player Performance Plan At the time it seemed like an excuse for PL clubs to nick lower league youngsters for peanuts https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/22293207 Although recently it seems to be having a negative effect on younger kids looking to move with clubs holding out for compensation https://www.telegraph.co.uk/football/2016/12/21/youth-players-left-scrapheap-thanks-exorbitant-compensation/ https://www.theguardian.com/football/2017/apr/05/premier-league-elite-player-performance-plan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
singe Posted June 12, 2018 Share Posted June 12, 2018 1 hour ago, unsworthlatic said: I think our youth system has been quite successful based on the competitors we are faced with in the local area. The better players at under 10’s-16’s get taken for very little by the likes of City and United. Other clubs do well with youth systems (not too many) and some are thinking that it’s a thankless task funding a youth setup such as Huddersfield and Brentford who have decided to scrap the academy idea altogether. The last 10 years, I thought I’d have a look to see if my argument was supported in any way. We have had the following youth products (including a couple that had been sold and returned to Latics) that have played league games for Oldham. Joel Coleman Jamie Stott Tom Hamer George Edmundson James Tarkowski Neal Eardley Kelvin Lomax Paul Black Glenn Belezika Neal Trotman Jack Truelove David Mellor Carl Winchester Mark Allott Deane Smalley Kirk Millar Jack Tuohy Kallum Mantack Danny Philliskirk Chris Taylor Matthew Wolfenden Tom Eaves Lewis Alessandra Ryan Brooke That’s a total of 24. I’d hazard a guess that not too many teams will have played 24 youth products in league games over the last 10 years or so. As you would expect, some were better than others, some were sold i.e Coleman, Tarkowski, Eaves. Others released. Some still playing for us now, others at other clubs (some within the football league) We have also had a couple prior to the last 10 years and within the 10 year period that were sold prior to playing a game, Scott Spencer and Chris Renshaw come to mind. As well as this, we have searched for young talent elsewhere, basically post academy graduates or non league: Darius Osei Rhys Turner Dale Stephens Matt Smith Those 4 spring to mind without looking deeper into it, two of those 4 were sold on. Safe to say I think it has been fairly successful. It seems to me it's tapered off a bit. And many were released. As a comparison, last year Walsall promoted 7 from the Academy that made their first team debuts last season. A concerted effort I grant you, but to me that is the level. But I have high hopes for Hamer and Edmundson. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jsslatic Posted June 12, 2018 Share Posted June 12, 2018 1 hour ago, unsworthlatic said: That’s a total of 24. I’d hazard a guess that not too many teams will have played 24 youth products in league games over the last 10 years or so. As you would expect, some were better than others, some were sold i.e Coleman, Tarkowski, Eaves. Others released. Some still playing for us now, others at other clubs (some within the football league) I have no evidence to back it up but my gut is that more clubs will have had more than 24 than less. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crusoe Posted June 12, 2018 Share Posted June 12, 2018 (edited) I'd also argue that not all 24 are "successes". Belezika, Truelove, Tuohy, Mantack made 8 appearances between them. Plus, you're stretching "10 years" a touch... no doubt that Chris Taylor and Mark Allott were successful players for us, but they left our youth system 13 and 22 years ago. Like Singe I think the supply has dried up a bit. Very few of the players offered pro deals now are still here a year later, and not because they've gone on to bigger and better. Tarky is the exception that proves the rule (and maybe Coleman can be one day). Edited June 12, 2018 by Crusoe Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crusoe Posted June 12, 2018 Share Posted June 12, 2018 Mind you, letting Carlos Roca go is going to come back and bite us one day. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crusoe Posted June 12, 2018 Share Posted June 12, 2018 Oh man. Carlos Roca has retired and runs an academy now. I feel old. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
leeslover Posted June 12, 2018 Share Posted June 12, 2018 Didn't we have half a team of them under Dickov? And might have done better if we'd stuck with them. There's no guarantee of one a year but you might get a good crop together as well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Twisbrogan Posted June 12, 2018 Share Posted June 12, 2018 Academy set ups, the transition to youth team football and the move to mens football is very different to how it was a few years ago and I'm not sure what would work best for the club and how that does or doesn't fit in with the owner's plans. Yes, there are a host of clubs higher up the ladder (City, United, Liverpool, Everton, Bolton, Rochdale, Accrington, etc) that we're in competition with to try and capture talent at the younger ages but we probably don't get as many players going right through the system as people think. The reality is most that make any kind of transition have stumbled to our club from elsewhere. I think Jamie Stott was with us from a very young age (and maybe Coleman was only a little older at 13ish) but many that progress to the youth team have developed elsewhere. The recent financial benefit of the younger age groups has been the sale of an u10 & u12 last season which, I'm sure was welcome news to Corney but I've had the feeling that Lemsagem's preference would be to move one of his players in rather than to work with a released (Edmundson, Tarky, Mellor) or unattached (Hamer) youth player for a couple of years to try and prepare them for the first team. It's always nice when 'one of your own' makes the breakthrough because then you get to watch them develop for a few months before you can start to pound them into the ground with abuse from a seat in the crowd but with the additional facilities that it takes to do this...let's say it'll be interesting to see where it sits in a list of priorities. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kirinclassic Posted June 12, 2018 Share Posted June 12, 2018 Selling an under 10 and an under 12 player? Apologies if I have misread this, but... If true, it beggars belief about the game. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
unsworthlatic Posted June 12, 2018 Share Posted June 12, 2018 1 hour ago, Crusoe said: I'd also argue that not all 24 are "successes". Belezika, Truelove, Tuohy, Mantack made 8 appearances between them. Plus, you're stretching "10 years" a touch... no doubt that Chris Taylor and Mark Allott were successful players for us, but they left our youth system 13 and 22 years ago. Like Singe I think the supply has dried up a bit. Very few of the players offered pro deals now are still here a year later, and not because they've gone on to bigger and better. Tarky is the exception that proves the rule (and maybe Coleman can be one day). I am stretching it, what I did say though was that these were all of our youth products over the last 10 years. However may they played, they made a first team appearance in the league. I never said they were all successes either, quite clearly a few on there weren't but was merely pointing out that 24 across 10 years played for Latics averaging 2.4 a season which isn't the best but certainly nowhere near the worst in the region or indeed the whole of England. There are teams that use and develop their academies extremely well, Crewe, Walsall come to mind but we have sold 3 of them (Coleman, Tarky, Eaves) for 6 figure sums as well as selling youngsters too such as Renshaw who went to Everton. I'd say that isn't a bad effort from a club that has a catchment area of very little considering we have United and City on our doorstep as well as about 10 other clubs who look into the Oldham area Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
unsworthlatic Posted June 12, 2018 Share Posted June 12, 2018 18 minutes ago, kirinclassic said: Selling an under 10 and an under 12 player? Apologies if I have misread this, but... If true, it beggars belief about the game. My mate is the first team analyst at Bury, one of their under 14's went to Liverpool for 50k+add ons. Emeka Obi he was called. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
unsworthlatic Posted June 12, 2018 Share Posted June 12, 2018 For what it's worth, I would be looking for players from 16-18 who are released by other academies and have learnt at bigger clubs with the use of better facilities and more one to one coaching but that's just me. I know Walsall do that, using cast offs from Wolves, West Brom etc. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LaticsPete Posted June 12, 2018 Share Posted June 12, 2018 6 minutes ago, unsworthlatic said: I am stretching it, what I did say though was that these were all of our youth products over the last 10 years. However may they played, they made a first team appearance in the league. I never said they were all successes either, quite clearly a few on there weren't but was merely pointing out that 24 across 10 years played for Latics averaging 2.4 a season which isn't the best but certainly nowhere near the worst in the region or indeed the whole of England. There are teams that use and develop their academies extremely well, Crewe, Walsall come to mind but we have sold 3 of them (Coleman, Tarky, Eaves) for 6 figure sums as well as selling youngsters too such as Renshaw who went to Everton. I'd say that isn't a bad effort from a club that has a catchment area of very little considering we have United and City on our doorstep as well as about 10 other clubs who look into the Oldham area Spencer and Philliskirk both went for over £200k though it was 11/12 years ago.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Twisbrogan Posted June 12, 2018 Share Posted June 12, 2018 36 minutes ago, kirinclassic said: Selling an under 10 and an under 12 player? Apologies if I have misread this, but... If true, it beggars belief about the game. Think we got about £40k for the u12 as he was at the time (whilst we were in discussions to sell our first team captain to Scunthorpe for a similar fee, although we kept him in the end) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crusoe Posted June 12, 2018 Share Posted June 12, 2018 (edited) I'm a bit torn on this. I'm kind of thinking along Twisbrogan's lines - I'd like a team with more local players but I'm not sure whether the investment, in recent years at least, has actually made much of a difference either to the quality of our squad or our finances. Of course it also depends on whether the owner and manager want to take the time to develop those youngsters and give them a chance... but if they don't want to, does that just make going through the motions more of a waste of time? But if someone pushed me to say whether I wanted the youth sides dropped, I'd really struggle to agree. Edited June 12, 2018 by Crusoe Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HarryBosch Posted June 12, 2018 Share Posted June 12, 2018 1 hour ago, unsworthlatic said: My mate is the first team analyst at Bury, one of their under 14's went to Liverpool for 50k+add ons. Emeka Obi he was called. I reckon someone could sell a Premier League Academy a player who doesn't even exist if they put their mind to it.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
josh_latics Posted December 7, 2018 Share Posted December 7, 2018 Got a gig at Burnley. https://www.burnleyfootballclub.com/news/2018/december/philliskirk-appointed-u18-head-coach/#.XApfcewGgaM.twitter Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BP1960 Posted December 7, 2018 Share Posted December 7, 2018 (edited) We await the oafc official statement. Edited December 7, 2018 by BP1960 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Senor_Coconut Posted December 7, 2018 Share Posted December 7, 2018 Sad way for things to end really, no-one can begrudge him a move to a premier league academy but the the whole suspension has been a mess from the club and FA. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
simplythemostimportantkick Posted December 7, 2018 Share Posted December 7, 2018 2 minutes ago, BP1960 said: We await the oafc official statement. Do we ? I don’t. Even if there was one, there’d be nothing juicy in it would there ? Along the lines of -we would like to thank Tony for his efforts and wish him success... blah blah ... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lookersstandandy Posted December 7, 2018 Share Posted December 7, 2018 14 minutes ago, BP1960 said: We await the oafc official statement. I fear we may be waiting a while...... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LaticMark Posted December 7, 2018 Share Posted December 7, 2018 Given that he has spent 20 years as a coach at BP, in a few roles, there should be something on the website sometime soon! Shouldn't there? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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