jorvik_latic Posted January 10, 2019 Share Posted January 10, 2019 2 minutes ago, ghostofcecere said: I don’t think there are stairs are there? (On reflection I guess there must be for fire regulations!) There are indeed, near to the lift. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lookersstandandy Posted January 10, 2019 Share Posted January 10, 2019 1 hour ago, singe said: Andy, As it is not owned by AL, and on a high rent, isn't this just Simon Blitz's issue? It would have to be a serious business to make any money, even if the rent was lowered. No way a fans bar can do it. Can't see any evidence, so far, that AL has the kind of deep pockets to fund it and has far more pressing issues of income and expenditure. We need quicker, guaranteed income.I think the question is best aimed at Simon Blitz, and we move on. Someone on Twitter asked for complete clarification on who owned what and Darren, who manages Twitter was going to seek the definitive answer. This window and managerial appointment should confirm whether AL has any money in reserve/behind the sofa for anythig more than funding the club day to day. Here's how the conversation / actions should go [in my opinion]; AL asks SB, "Can I rent the top floor of your building please?" SB to AL, "Yes, it'll cost you £Y per annum". AL scopes out refit cost [a one off Cap Ex investment, with ongoing maintenance costs] to make it into a Fans Bar / Junior Latics lounge / rentable space for functions [whatever he chooses]. AL then forecasts his potential Income per annum from matchdays & non-matchdays. He build a business case that works out whether it is a genuine financial opportunity or not. If it is, he then asks the Trust & us fans to support it and we all get behind it. If it's not, is it because the £Y rent is too high? If so, he asks SB to lower the rental cost. Please note, SB is currently achieving £0 per annum for this space. In addition, I am certain as I can be that there is a number [which is calculable if you draw up a business case] the rent would need to be, that makes this viable! If SB says no to lowering the rental cost, or indeed his answer to the original question was 'No' - and this maybe because some fans do use the OEC [on the 1st floor] and SB is concerned if a competitive bar/business is opened on the floor above, it will affect performance of the OEC - then the Trust tell us SB is not willing to play ball because of his interests, and we all go on complete OEC strike. Full on boycott, picket lines outside. F*ck him. The risk of doing this, is SB retaliates by putting up the Ground Rent, so AL / the Trust scrutinise the terms of the lease to see what he can/cannot legally do and they make a call on our next move. This is a Plan. Investigate it and tell us the outcome. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deyres42 Posted January 10, 2019 Share Posted January 10, 2019 Maybe AL isn't arsed about it? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lookersstandandy Posted January 10, 2019 Share Posted January 10, 2019 2 minutes ago, deyres42 said: Maybe AL isn't arsed about it? Yep.... but the Trust should be.... and they should be attempting to make him @rsed about it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clifford Posted January 10, 2019 Share Posted January 10, 2019 AL has asked a local bar to look at fitting up and also perhaps running a bar in the main stand for fans. I got the impression this wasn't the box but within the stand. He won't be opening a bar in the 'new' stand as the club wouldn't profit from it. Same goes for the unit spaces which are coming free or free in the 'new' stand. They were discussed as the team approach fancied using one of those but again, no money to be made for OAFC. Getting this business on board would be a decent move IMO. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lookersstandandy Posted January 10, 2019 Share Posted January 10, 2019 (edited) 52 minutes ago, Clifford said: AL has asked a local bar to look at fitting up and also perhaps running a bar in the main stand for fans. I got the impression this wasn't the box but within the stand. He won't be opening a bar in the 'new' stand as the club wouldn't profit from it. Same goes for the unit spaces which are coming free or free in the 'new' stand. They were discussed as the team approach fancied using one of those but again, no money to be made for OAFC. Getting this business on board would be a decent move IMO. Great. Why wouldn't the club profit? Is it because the Rent is too high? [because there shouldn't be any other reason]. There will be a rental cost that would make it viable - whether Blitz chooses to accept it or not? [he's currently achieving £0]. If so, then the Trust confirm the blockage is with Blitz and advise on the pros and cons of a full on, heavily publicised, OEC boycott? Edited January 10, 2019 by lookersstandandy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greenfield Latic Posted January 10, 2019 Share Posted January 10, 2019 (edited) 16 hours ago, another fan said: I bet it confused him when the voice recording on the lift said "Going Up" Yeah Barry Owen said the lift couldnt go up as we couldnt afford it! And AL said lift only goes 'slowly slowly' Edited January 10, 2019 by Greenfield Latic Addition Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ghostofcecere Posted January 10, 2019 Share Posted January 10, 2019 1 hour ago, lookersstandandy said: Great. Why wouldn't the club profit? Is it because the Rent is too high? [because there shouldn't be any other reason]. There will be a rental cost that would make it viable - whether Blitz chooses to accept it or not? [he's currently achieving £0]. If so, then the Trust confirm the blockage is with Blitz and advise on the pros and cons of a full on, heavily publicised, OEC boycott? Absolutely this! The club would profit from sales of food/beer minus any rent paid to OEC. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deyres42 Posted January 10, 2019 Share Posted January 10, 2019 Just now, ghostofcecere said: Absolutely this! The club would profit from sales of food/beer minus any rent paid to OEC. Who says they would? Might just disappear down the plughole for all we know. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
singe Posted January 10, 2019 Share Posted January 10, 2019 3 minutes ago, ghostofcecere said: Absolutely this! The club would profit from sales of food/beer minus any rent paid to OEC. Not without significant up front investment. And it would need a really hefty reduction in rent. gross Profit, yes, but I would estimate a net loss for some cosiderable time. There is a real risk, from not enough footfall to cover rent. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ghostofcecere Posted January 10, 2019 Share Posted January 10, 2019 8 minutes ago, deyres42 said: Who says they would? Might just disappear down the plughole for all we know. We have been told all profits from matchday revenue go to the football club. I’m making an assumption this is the case. 4 minutes ago, singe said: Not without significant up front investment. And it would need a really hefty reduction in rent. gross Profit, yes, but I would estimate a net loss for some cosiderable time. There is a real risk, from not enough footfall to cover rent. But that’s type of risk is the case with any new business isn’t it? I suppose it comes down to how quickly AL would want to see an ROI I suppose. But we still have a 20 years lease on the ground, so surely a profit would have been turned long before that expires? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lookersstandandy Posted January 10, 2019 Share Posted January 10, 2019 9 minutes ago, singe said: Not without significant up front investment. And it would need a really hefty reduction in rent. gross Profit, yes, but I would estimate a net loss for some cosiderable time. There is a real risk, from not enough footfall to cover rent. So negative @singe, I want a can-do attitude.... I don't believe it isn't possible to make money from the space..... subject to the rent being sensible. All the other clubs we visit - nearly every one of them - have a bar/function space that will make a profit. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deyres42 Posted January 10, 2019 Share Posted January 10, 2019 1 minute ago, ghostofcecere said: We have been told all profits from matchday revenue go to the football club. I’m making an assumption this is the case. But that’s type of risk is the case with any new business isn’t it? I suppose it comes down to how quickly AL would want to see an ROI I suppose. But we still have a 20 years lease on the ground, so surely a profit would have been turned long before that expires? And then the owner is free to do what he wants with those profits. Have to think if there was any money to be made from it then it would have been built at the time. A nice thing to have but hardly essential. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
underdog Posted January 10, 2019 Share Posted January 10, 2019 Interesting about the main stand. I believe it is literally on its last legs and maybe closer to being condemed than it can be saved so I can't understand why you want to invest in it. Surely the Frizzel stand is a better location and a central point between all three stands? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jorvik_latic Posted January 10, 2019 Share Posted January 10, 2019 2 minutes ago, underdog said: Interesting about the main stand. I believe it is literally on its last legs and maybe closer to being condemed than it can be saved so I can't understand why you want to invest in it. Surely the Frizzel stand is a better location and a central point between all three stands? You'd have to build something if you had it in the Frizell though wouldn't you? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
underdog Posted January 10, 2019 Share Posted January 10, 2019 The Trust did exhaust the possibility of the space in the JR stand, ground floor, facing the car park...where we wanted the pop up bar to be a couple of Xmas ago. We tentatively discussed a refit sum and getting a pub franchaise involved, Andy B who posts on here did a lot of research/made some calls about it but its been put on the back burn for the time being. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bobledgersheart Posted January 10, 2019 Share Posted January 10, 2019 Get home supporters back in Chaddy and build new bar/club under there ! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
underdog Posted January 10, 2019 Share Posted January 10, 2019 1 minute ago, jorvik_latic said: You'd have to build something if you had it in the Frizell though wouldn't you? Maybe but it might last longer as an investment than the mainstand surely? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
singe Posted January 10, 2019 Share Posted January 10, 2019 11 minutes ago, lookersstandandy said: So negative @singe, I want a can-do attitude.... I don't believe it isn't possible to make money from the space..... subject to the rent being sensible. All the other clubs we visit - nearly every one of them - have a bar/function space that will make a profit. Andy, I am a catering manager, and have been in catering for 35 years. It's absolutely nothing to do with can-do- that is what I have to do day in day out. It is head ruling heart. Much easier wins (positive) elsewhere to be had. If the ownership of the land and building was sorted out it would be an enitely different matter and much easier to do. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jorvik_latic Posted January 10, 2019 Share Posted January 10, 2019 5 minutes ago, underdog said: Maybe but it might last longer as an investment than the mainstand surely? Depends on how much it would cost to put a bar in the main stand. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lookersstandandy Posted January 10, 2019 Share Posted January 10, 2019 6 minutes ago, singe said: Andy, 1. I am a catering manager, and have been in catering for 35 years. It's absolutely nothing to do with can-do- that is what I have to do day in day out. It is head ruling heart. Much easier wins (positive) elsewhere to be had. 2. If the ownership of the land and building was sorted out it would be an enitely different matter and much easier to do. Forgive me if that came across condescending, I promise I didn't mean it to.... 1. Brilliant, maybe the Trust could tap into your expertise for advice on the matter...? 2. This is the issue I'm trying to flush out.... Is the land/building ownership having a detrimental effect...? If so, why...? What pressure can we apply to the land/building owner....? There's a massive unused space up there that we could put to use..... with which you agree, should be "easy to do"? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deyres42 Posted January 10, 2019 Share Posted January 10, 2019 14 minutes ago, lookersstandandy said: Forgive me if that came across condescending, I promise I didn't mean it to.... 1. Brilliant, maybe the Trust could tap into your expertise for advice on the matter...? 2. This is the issue I'm trying to flush out.... Is the land/building ownership having a detrimental effect...? If so, why...? What pressure can we apply to the land/building owner....? There's a massive unused space up there that we could put to use..... with which you agree, should be "easy to do"? What makes you think any pressure can be applied? Maybe everybody is just happy with their lot. Is anybody not attending matches due to the lack of this wonder bar? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
singe Posted January 10, 2019 Share Posted January 10, 2019 1 minute ago, lookersstandandy said: Forgive me if that came across condescending, I promise I didn't mean it to.... 1. Brilliant, maybe the Trust could tap into your expertise for advice on the matter...? 2. This is the issue I'm trying to flush out.... Is the land/building ownership having a detrimental effect...? If so, why...? What pressure can we apply to the land/building owner....? There's a massive unused space up there that we could put to use..... with which you agree, should be "easy to do"? Of course you are forgiven. Over the years, this site has been a great place to "chew the fat". I know you are extremely knowledgeable. Of course, if the Trust want to talk they can. Being honest, there are a people nearer with more experience (of wet sales) than me. I am sure the land ownership is having a deterimental effect. If you wanted a commercial contractor to operate they would need cast iron guarantees, or you take the risk. If it's in house (more my area of knowledge) then you are going to have a significant cost before you even serve your first pint or chip, so it relies on goodwill and certainty. Something not in place. I cannot recall the exact timescales, but it could all be knocked down and sold for houses in a *relatively* short space of time. I'm sure the Trust have done work on this, and with all the problems eg money, staffing, rent and ownership it's so hard to get over the line. Given their finite resource they need to focus on other things smae for AL. Don't mistakle that for lakc of desire to get a Fans Bar though, I'd love it to be doable. It should be easy, but the situation (not neccesarily Blitz himself) hampers it. Exactly the motivation for being happy it being empty I would like to know the answer. My hunch is all the ownership saga has put it all on the back buner but that could be good news if Blitz is around as much as indicated. I can't think of another reason why he would be around. Nothing he couldn't do on Facetime or in one visit! His apperances(s) has definitely intrigued me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jorvik_latic Posted January 10, 2019 Share Posted January 10, 2019 Bear in mind there is a fans bar at the moment (even though it's a bit shit). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lookersstandandy Posted January 10, 2019 Share Posted January 10, 2019 3 minutes ago, deyres42 said: 1. What makes you think any pressure can be applied? 2. Maybe everybody is just happy with their lot. 3. Is anybody not attending matches due to the lack of this wonder bar? 1. It stands to reason that a full on, heavily publicised, OEC supporter boycott will apply some pressure. How much, is debatable. I want the Trust to investigate the pros/cons and tell us.... 2. 'Everybody' being Abdallah and Blitz? Because we - the supporters - shouldn't be happy with the facilities we have..... there are some poxy, sh1thouse clubs in League One/Two & the Conference, with better supporter facilities that we have. 3. That's not the point I'm making..... but how can attractive facilities that positive contribute to the club, not be an incentive to come...? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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