Checkatrade .... boycott or not?

[mikeroyboy]

48 minutes ago, Dave_Og said:

 

How much to stage a game? 

 

Less than the income from it.

 

If we could could open for business every day like McDonald's we probably wouldn't be skint.

 

Who in their right mind would consider opening their doors 69 hours a year, with the possibility of a few Cup matches, good business. 

 

These games are intended to procure some financial benefit for clubs of a similar standing. The possibility of some serious payback further down the line is the bait and incentive. That's how the professional game works.

 

Meanwhile, someone is somehow keeping us afloat opening 69+hours a year.

 

 

 

 

[ghostofcecere]

13 minutes ago, mikeroyboy said:

 

Less than the income from it.

 

If we could could open for business every day like McDonald's we probably wouldn't be skint.

 

Who in their right mind would consider opening their doors 69 hours a year, with the possibility of a few Cup matches, good business. 

 

These games are intended to procure some financial benefit for clubs of a similar standing. The possibility of some serious payback further down the line is the bait and incentive. That's how the professional game works.

 

Meanwhile, someone is somehow keeping us afloat opening 69+hours a year.

 

 

 

 

Which alas was the point of the North Stand which was supposed to provide revenue for the club 360 odd days a year

[mikeroyboy]

28 minutes ago, GlossopLatic said:

 

You're forgeting the cost of putting these games on the staff costs, cost for the floodlights, players appearence and bonus money if we win etc. Simon Corney did state that for some of these games we didnt breakeven infact we lost money. 2 Wins in the FA cup potentially its the jackpot.

 

In the grand of scheme of things yes its nothing Id like to think our owner has set his sights a little higher than the checkatrade if he hasnt Id have to question why he is here. We got through last year and were still in the competition after christmas and yet we were still struggling to pay any bills. 

 

He could probably make more money by selling the naming rights to the stadium or even the JR stand. He did tear up the sports direct deal which probably made us more money.

 

I am not forgetting the admin costs - they are unknown to me. I have covered the running costs overall in my last post.

 

Bonus's in Cup games - how many of those have we paid out in recent seasons?

 

Two wins in FA Cup hits the jackpot -sounds like another 'great scheme of things' wish.

 

Our owner has probably set his sights on making us more profitable - any-which-way.

 

'still struggling to pay bills' Playing less games with less prize money would go somewhere to solving that?

 

 

[GlossopLatic]

4 hours ago, mikeroyboy said:

 

I am not forgetting the admin costs - they are unknown to me. I have covered the running costs overall in my last post.

 

Bonus's in Cup games - how many of those have we paid out in recent seasons?

 

Two wins in FA Cup hits the jackpot -sounds like another 'great scheme of things' wish.

 

Our owner has probably set his sights on making us more profitable - any-which-way.

 

'still struggling to pay bills' Playing less games with less prize money would go somewhere to solving that?

 

 

 

What will make us profitablevor atleast more secure financially is becoming a 24/7 365 commercial operation something our previous owners talked about and failed to deliver.

 

Also playing in games which put bums on seats and potentially attract a potential tv audience and sponsors, the checkatrade wont deliver that. Our biggest game in the competition in the 21 years we have been in it the northern area final against Chesterfield attracted a crowd of less than 5000 home supporters. Lemsagam has talked about filling the ground it wont happen in this competition, in the league and the 2 major cup competitions it can do and that is where we should be focusing efforts. 

[rosa]

On 8/31/2018 at 7:18 AM, 24424 said:

Morning Latics.

 

Just wondering how you guys view the Checkatrade, given that there are premier league under 21 teams in it?

 

There is a major debate raging amongst TRFC fans  on our forum (Cowsheds) just now, as we are late to the party so to speak and haven't played in this competition since the revamp, so with yourselves being involved from the start, is there any consensus here?

 

My personal position is to boycott, as I view this "experiment" as testing the water, with the ultimate direction of travel intended to be premier league B teams competing regularly against the likes of ourselves in the lower leagues. For me, that would be unthinkable, and the time  I would walk away from football altogether, but there is a school of thought amongst some of our fans, that the Checkatrade is still a proper competition which we as fans should support.

 

Any thoughts?

Bought a house next to the ground so I could walk past on Crockashit nights and shut the curtains.

[Dave_Og]

I see a far bigger threat from the world of B teams and feeder clubs as the loan policy adopted by Crystal Palace which I understand is being encouraged by the Premier League. 

 

When they loan a player they charge no fee and pay all the wages but with the proviso that if the player is not in the starting XI then the borrowing club plays half the weekly salary. 

 

Given the wages that Premier League kids are on lower league clubs will have to play them almost regardless of preferred tactics, form etc. so effectively the lending clubs could be picking almost half the side. 

 

Ostensiby generous but very invasive. 

[mikeroyboy]

9 hours ago, GlossopLatic said:

 

What will make us profitablevor atleast more secure financially is becoming a 24/7 365 commercial operation something our previous owners talked about and failed to deliver.

 

Also playing in games which put bums on seats and potentially attract a potential tv audience and sponsors, the checkatrade wont deliver that. Our biggest game in the competition in the 21 years we have been in it the northern area final against Chesterfield attracted a crowd of less than 5000 home supporters. Lemsagam has talked about filling the ground it wont happen in this competition, in the league and the 2 major cup competitions it can do and that is where we should be focusing efforts. 

 

Glossop, I despair. 24/7/365 commercial operation? I'm not surprised Corney failed to deliver. Who have you got in mind to deliver that little beauty for you? Lemsagam may or may not be capable of that over a decade but forgive me for very much doubting it.

 

At the moment we are skint and in League 2. Your exit route is to 'somehow' win the first two rounds in the FA Cup and then get Hartlepool away in the 3rd round. You are unbelievable!

 

I have met a few people with plans over a lifetime - they are usually looking for backing. Good luck in your search.  

[rudemedic]

20 minutes ago, Dave_Og said:

I see a far bigger threat from the world of B teams and feeder clubs as the loan policy adopted by Crystal Palace which I understand is being encouraged by the Premier League. 

 

When they loan a player they charge no fee and pay all the wages but with the proviso that if the player is not in the starting XI then the borrowing club plays half the weekly salary. 

 

Given the wages that Premier League kids are on lower league clubs will have to play them almost regardless of preferred tactics, form etc. so effectively the lending clubs could be picking almost half the side. 

 

Ostensiby generous but very invasive. 

Very good point, something similar that I think has been going on for ages but perhaps not to the same scale. 

 

Having to pick players to save money is ridiculous. 

[singe]

4 hours ago, mikeroyboy said:

 

Glossop, I despair. 24/7/365 commercial operation? I'm not surprised Corney failed to deliver. Who have you got in mind to deliver that little beauty for you? Lemsagam may or may not be capable of that over a decade but forgive me for very much doubting it.

 

At the moment we are skint and in League 2. Your exit route is to 'somehow' win the first two rounds in the FA Cup and then get Hartlepool away in the 3rd round. You are unbelievable!

 

I have met a few people with plans over a lifetime - they are usually looking for backing. Good luck in your search.  

Hang on, your plan is to get better crowds for the Checkatrade?
It was reported that according to the report from EFL to FA, any team not making it to the Semi Final or Final saw an increase of only £12,500 in revenue after gate losses last year. A mountain to climb to make any money from that plan.

[Monty Burns]

I despair

[mikeroyboy]

5 hours ago, singe said:

Hang on, your plan is to get better crowds for the Checkatrade?
It was reported that according to the report from EFL to FA, any team not making it to the Semi Final or Final saw an increase of only £12,500 in revenue after gate losses last year. A mountain to climb to make any money from that plan.

 

I have no plan to get better crowds apart from taking part and progressing in the competition. Not sure why you ask the question. The Checkatrade is no different from other knock-out competitions -- the further you get the better the potential, financial rewards. Cup matches are a lottery to win substantial rewards - you don't buy a ticket you get cock-all.

 

We are a skint Professional Football Club who can rely on no more than 25 or so home matches. I can't understand how some fans see not taking part as a potential  benefit to our club.

 

As far as the attendances go all Cup games are poorly supported in the early stages at all levels. We need games to create any sort of income. And your financial plan and funding is?     

[GlossopLatic]

11 hours ago, mikeroyboy said:

 

Glossop, I despair. 24/7/365 commercial operation? I'm not surprised Corney failed to deliver. Who have you got in mind to deliver that little beauty for you? Lemsagam may or may not be capable of that over a decade but forgive me for very much doubting it.

 

At the moment we are skint and in League 2. Your exit route is to 'somehow' win the first two rounds in the FA Cup and then get Hartlepool away in the 3rd round. You are unbelievable!

 

I have met a few people with plans over a lifetime - they are usually looking for backing. Good luck in your search.  

 

And your solution is a run in the checkatrade trophy?

 

This is the last I will say because we are going to have to agee to disagree.

 

I and many people dont like this competition because:

 

1. From a footballing point of view it is shit! Letting B teams in has devalued it massively

 

2. Their really is bollocks all money to be made in this competition if you put another 0 on the prize funds then Im sure you would see clubs go hell for leather in it. But their isnt so I think we should do what we are doing which is use this to give our squad players game time.

[Londonboy]

1786 there tonight..... 443 from Barnsley... Impressive away following! 

[mikeroyboy]

11 hours ago, GlossopLatic said:

 

And your solution is a run in the checkatrade trophy?

 

This is the last I will say because we are going to have to agee to disagree.

 

I and many people dont like this competition because:

 

1. From a footballing point of view it is shit! Letting B teams in has devalued it massively

 

2. Their really is bollocks all money to be made in this competition if you put another 0 on the prize funds then Im sure you would see clubs go hell for leather in it. But their isnt so I think we should do what we are doing which is use this to give our squad players game time.

 

I will also have my last word, since you asked me a question and conceded my main thrust that we 'should' be taking part.

 

Yes, a successful run in the Checkatrade is potentially a chance to make some money. There are no other companies offering more attractive prize money to my knowledge. Who knows where the Development Squad's will lead. Who seriously guessed were a jumpy, fuzzy TV picture in your home would lead electronic technology, in some people's lifetime ago.

 

Modern Professional Football is a extremely unique and costly business with very little wriggle room to expand. For virtually all clubs (quite possibly all) a wealthy benefactor is required. There is no queue.

 

And finally: You can't judge anything without history being behind it.

Thank you for the debate.

[TheBigDog]

If we put to one side the financial discussions and look at the footballing benefit of having a low impact/importance tournament then there are some plus points of the competition. 

Latics have a fairly large first team squad many of whom, in the absence of a reserve team league,  do not get regular competitive football. Last night gave Frankie Bunn the opportunity to field one or two of the peripheral players (as well as resting one or two) and by and large there were positives from the game.

Maouche, named MotM on the night, the pairing of Lang and Surridge up front along with Benteke, La Paz getting game time before Saturday, Hamer playing the full ninety minutes. All positives.

 

 

[singe]

41 minutes ago, mikeroyboy said:

 

I will also have my last word, since you asked me a question and conceded my main thrust that we 'should' be taking part.

 

Yes, a successful run in the Checkatrade is potentially a chance to make some money. There are no other companies offering more attractive prize money to my knowledge. Who knows where the Development Squad's will lead. Who seriously guessed were a jumpy, fuzzy TV picture in your home would lead electronic technology, in some people's lifetime ago.

 

Modern Professional Football is a extremely unique and costly business with very little wriggle room to expand. For virtually all clubs (quite possibly all) a wealthy benefactor is required. There is no queue.

 

And finally: You can't judge anything without history being behind it.

Thank you for the debate.

It is important to look beyond  April next year.The upshot is, that I firmly believe it is a backdoor way to get B Teams into the League. Harvey et al are hoping that apathy ebbs away. We could get a couple of significant injuries even, putting our presence in the League in jeopardy. If we get relegated from this godforsaken League (MKII), at the expense of a B Team,  it would be much harder to get back into the League if it was full of B Teams.Then where would we be financially?

[Londonboy]

Good debate guys but my understanding is we have no choice but to play in it!

 

We have no influence, whatever the agenda may be, in getting B teams into the league, so we may as well get on with it and try and progress. It may generate some good additional income if we do well, and give the wider squad some good competitive game time, as TheBigDog states in a previous post.

[singe]

1 hour ago, Londonboy said:

Good debate guys but my understanding is we have no choice but to play in it!

 

We have no influence, whatever the agenda may be, in getting B teams into the league, so we may as well get on with it and try and progress. It may generate some good additional income if we do well, and give the wider squad some good competitive game time, as TheBigDog states in a previous post.

We cannot determine if we are in the competion or not, but of course we can influence. Latics and L1 & L2 fans together boycotting has already had effects, and will continue to do so.

And it's no use if we are replaced in the League by Everton B.

[yarddog73]

21 minutes ago, singe said:

We cannot determine if we are in the competion or not, but of course we can influence. Latics and L1 & L2 fans together boycotting has already had effects, and will continue to do so.

And it's no use if we are replaced in the League by Everton B.

No proof whatsoever that this is the plan yet you keep beating get the drum.

[singe]

1 minute ago, yarddog73 said:

No proof whatsoever that this is the plan yet you keep beating get the drum.

Of course I've no proof. But there is the obvious incentive, and the quoted reasons supporting the CheckaTrade and B Teams in the League are interchangeable.
However, similarly, you've no proof that it is not the long term objective. But they have never ruled it out permanently.

 

Why would they never want B Teams in the League?

[latics22]

It won’t happend there will never be B teams in English football.

[deyres42]

25 minutes ago, singe said:

Of course I've no proof. But there is the obvious incentive, and the quoted reasons supporting the CheckaTrade and B Teams in the League are interchangeable.
However, similarly, you've no proof that it is not the long term objective. But they have never ruled it out permanently.

 

Why would they never want B Teams in the League?

Because the League system is the strongest in the world and there is no requirement for it.

[singe]

3 minutes ago, deyres42 said:

Because the League system is the strongest in the world and there is no requirement for it.

According to the hype it is, but of course it isn't.

We, and many others have been struggling for a quarter of a decade, The League has got weaker, and PL far stronger. But one example is the complete capitulation over measly prize money.

 

Are PL going to agree to a League where the clubs are at the risk whim of a rookie, bully or incompetent manager or Assistant?

Or one they have complete control.

That is why there are discussion to formalise loan arrangements to include stipulations that a player play in every match or risk a "fine" of paying a proportion of wages. So a team could be picked to save money.
Thin end of the wedge, the path is clear.

[nzlatic]

I can't see how anyone could doubt that the ultimate aim of the established premier league teams would be to field B team squads in the football league.  They are only interested in themselves and couldn't care less if lower league teams go out of business or are replaced.

 

I've no issue with this competition, never have.  All the positives mentioned by other posters are valid in my eyes.  But I can't see any positives for allowing B teams in it, especially for EFL teams.  All the fans can do is boycott to show they aren't welcome, so I hope it'll continue to be done.

[deyres42]

40 minutes ago, singe said:

According to the hype it is, but of course it isn't.

We, and many others have been struggling for a quarter of a decade, The League has got weaker, and PL far stronger. But one example is the complete capitulation over measly prize money.

 

Are PL going to agree to a League where the clubs are at the risk whim of a rookie, bully or incompetent manager or Assistant?

Or one they have complete control.

That is why there are discussion to formalise loan arrangements to include stipulations that a player play in every match or risk a "fine" of paying a proportion of wages. So a team could be picked to save money.
Thin end of the wedge, the path is clear.

Think you underestimate the power of the supporter.

 

The pyramid system is sacred and the envy of the world, the big hitters may well have plans to change that but they would never get off the ground.