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Checkatrade .... boycott or not?


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15 minutes ago, deyres42 said:

Think you underestimate the power of the supporter.

 

The pyramid system is sacred and the envy of the world, the big hitters may well have plans to change that but they would never get off the ground.

 

Sacred?  It changes most seasons at lower levels and tehre are plenty who would change it by, say, regionalising at higher levels than is the case now

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2 minutes ago, Dave_Og said:

 

Sacred?  It changes most seasons at lower levels and tehre are plenty who would change it by, say, regionalising at higher levels than is the case now

Wasn't really referring as far down as that, more the top 5 leagues.

 

I wouldn't be against the idea of regionalising higher up though.

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2 minutes ago, oldhamoafc said:

Still confuses why people push the whole B teams in the football league. It literally won’t happen, ever. 

 

No evidence that the big teams even want it to happen never mind everything else.

 

Ridiculous argument.

It's been suggested before, and rejected...

https://www.theguardian.com/football/2016/sep/22/efl-rules-out-including-premier-league-b-teams-in-plans-for-new-league-structure

 

Now one of the EFL competitions has B teams in it.  What do you think the benefits of having those teams in the EFL trophy are for EFL teams then?

 

No evidence that the big teams even want it?...

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/football/2017/01/20/manchester-city-manager-pep-guardiola-calls-premier-league-b/

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2 hours ago, oldhamoafc said:

Still confuses why people push the whole B teams in the football league. It literally won’t happen, ever. 

 

No evidence that the big teams even want it to happen never mind everything else.

 

Ridiculous argument.

Why wouldn't any PL club want their B Team in the Football League?

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20 minutes ago, Dave_Og said:

Just a simple fact. It only becomes a pyramid when the lower levels begin to widen which they do at level six. No point telling us the pyramid system is a source of envy and then ignoring it. 

Go and give that an edit Oggie, they've obviously got it wrong

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/English_football_league_system

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10 hours ago, singe said:

It is important to look beyond  April next year.The upshot is, that I firmly believe it is a backdoor way to get B Teams into the League. Harvey et al are hoping that apathy ebbs away. We could get a couple of significant injuries even, putting our presence in the League in jeopardy. If we get relegated from this godforsaken League (MKII), at the expense of a B Team,  it would be much harder to get back into the League if it was full of B Teams.Then where would we be financially?

 

Your first sentence ‘It is important to look beyond April next year’, followed by a ‘believe’ a ‘could’, ‘it would’ ‘would’ and 2’if’s’ make your fear sound more like Cameron, Osborne and many others prophesizing immediate Armageddon if the electorate voted to leave the EU.

 

An article in the Daily Mail today reports: ‘Clubs from Leagues One and Two are preparing to extend the Checkatrade Trophy in its present format for three more years’.

 

It also states that there is ‘solid support within the EFL to develop the competition’, ‘clubs had seen crowds and gate receipts up owing to regionalization’. Also, ‘fears that the innovations might also provide a gateway for B teams into the football pyramid have proved unfounded’. There is other relevant stuff in the article by Matt Barlow, if you care to find it.

 

Short term we are under far more threat from our players not being good enough, our management team not being good enough and our wealthy benefactor being an illusion. Not to mention every time we open shop some other bunch of guys are trying to ruin our product.

 

My unique personal opinion on why B teams are unlikely to work or be accepted is the problem it creates with promotion and relegation. Every season half the Premiership is in real danger of being relegated before the season starts. The same goes for the Championship. High rollers regularly visit League 1.

 

No way will these guys be putting themselves at risk to swapping places with a B team, however unlikely it may seem. Regular League football for groups of very talented kids - heaven help us all. 

 

 

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5 minutes ago, Dave_Og said:

 

Just draw yourself a picture.  The whole thing may be the pyramid but just picking the top few tiers makes the point n different from most other countries' systems.

I'll refer to it as the structure then.

 

The structure, if I may call it that, has so much depth and strength (in terms of support) that it doesn't require the need for B teams, if I may call them so, to be inserted into the structure.

 

The money thing is a red herring for me as a majority of supporters have little or no interest in the Football League Trophy competition so it was ripe for change and easy to implement, in my view you'll never see B Teams in the league or indeed the FA and League Cup.

 

 

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42 minutes ago, deyres42 said:

I'll refer to it as the structure then.

 

The structure, if I may call it that, has so much depth and strength (in terms of support) that it doesn't require the need for B teams, if I may call them so, to be inserted into the structure.

 

The money thing is a red herring for me as a majority of supporters have little or no interest in the Football League Trophy competition so it was ripe for change and easy to implement, in my view you'll never see B Teams in the league or indeed the FA and League Cup.

 

 

 

Fair enough

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I’ll ask again as I don’t think I’ve seen an answer... what benefit to EFL teams is having the B teams in this trophy?

 

And another one for good measure... Why should EFL teams dilute their chance of getting to Wembley in an EFL competition to help premier league teams out?

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7 hours ago, nzlatic said:

I’ll ask again as I don’t think I’ve seen an answer... what benefit to EFL teams is having the B teams in this trophy?

 

And another one for good measure... Why should EFL teams dilute their chance of getting to Wembley in an EFL competition to help premier league teams out?

Cash.

 

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There isn’t even that much benefit to the prem teams, our leagues are so shite why would they bother when they have premier league 2 and loan players out to the best leagues in the world. If they wanted them to have exposure to lower league football they would loan them to us which only really happens with the really young ones who prob won’t make it. If they make a b team with them they won’t get very far.

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10 hours ago, nzlatic said:

I’ll ask again as I don’t think I’ve seen an answer... what benefit to EFL teams is having the B teams in this trophy?

 

And another one for good measure... Why should EFL teams dilute their chance of getting to Wembley in an EFL competition to help premier league teams out?

 

Cash has been mentioned and could be negotiated upwards.

 

As a fan who attends all home matches I find it interesting and more engaging experience pitting our experience against a B team of the best our youth can offer. Some of the earlier games were dire as were attendances.

 

One or two B teams at Wembley is a real problem. Off the top of my head, sharing the 'final' prize money between the two best performing League sides would be an option but really nowhere near good enough.

 

I have never been supporter of this concept - just a supporter of my club.

 

What else is on the table? What lengths would you go to keep 'your house' afloat?

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1 hour ago, mikeroyboy said:

 

Cash has been mentioned and could be negotiated upwards.

 

As a fan who attends all home matches I find it interesting and more engaging experience pitting our experience against a B team of the best our youth can offer. Some of the earlier games were dire as were attendances.

 

One or two B teams at Wembley is a real problem. Off the top of my head, sharing the 'final' prize money between the two best performing League sides would be an option but really nowhere near good enough.

 

I have never been supporter of this concept - just a supporter of my club.

 

What else is on the table? What lengths would you go to keep 'your house' afloat?

I have nothing against the competition at all, just the B teams involvement.  But upping the cash reward for keeping them in will lead to the cash being a necessity in my opinion.  Is it too far a stretch of imagination to see that leading to big cash incentives for allowing B teams in the league?

 

The premier league can fuck off on this issue in my opinion.  They don't care about anyone other than themselves when it comes to B teams.  If the England set up wants to ensure young players get competitive game time, put a cap on squad numbers.  Stop the likes of Chelsea/Man City hoovering up all the talent and sticking them in huge development squads, rarely seeing the light of day.  Let them flourish on the pitch for football league clubs throughout the divisions. A by product of that would be any young players doing well then getting bought by bigger teams and that money will go into the selling clubs.  Rather than them all being poached at 11 years old for a pittance.

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43 minutes ago, nzlatic said:

I have nothing against the competition at all, just the B teams involvement.  But upping the cash reward for keeping them in will lead to the cash being a necessity in my opinion.  Is it too far a stretch of imagination to see that leading to big cash incentives for allowing B teams in the league?

 

The premier league can fuck off on this issue in my opinion.  They don't care about anyone other than themselves when it comes to B teams.  If the England set up wants to ensure young players get competitive game time, put a cap on squad numbers.  Stop the likes of Chelsea/Man City hoovering up all the talent and sticking them in huge development squads, rarely seeing the light of day.  Let them flourish on the pitch for football league clubs throughout the divisions. A by product of that would be any young players doing well then getting bought by bigger teams and that money will go into the selling clubs.  Rather than them all being poached at 11 years old for a pittance.

Precisely where I am.

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15 hours ago, mikeroyboy said:

 

Your first sentence ‘It is important to look beyond April next year’, followed by a ‘believe’ a ‘could’, ‘it would’ ‘would’ and 2’if’s’ make your fear sound more like Cameron, Osborne and many others prophesizing immediate Armageddon if the electorate voted to leave the EU.

 

An article in the Daily Mail today reports: ‘Clubs from Leagues One and Two are preparing to extend the Checkatrade Trophy in its present format for three more years’.

 

It also states that there is ‘solid support within the EFL to develop the competition’, ‘clubs had seen crowds and gate receipts up owing to regionalization’. Also, ‘fears that the innovations might also provide a gateway for B teams into the football pyramid have proved unfounded’. There is other relevant stuff in the article by Matt Barlow, if you care to find it.

 

Short term we are under far more threat from our players not being good enough, our management team not being good enough and our wealthy benefactor being an illusion. Not to mention every time we open shop some other bunch of guys are trying to ruin our product.

 

My unique personal opinion on why B teams are unlikely to work or be accepted is the problem it creates with promotion and relegation. Every season half the Premiership is in real danger of being relegated before the season starts. The same goes for the Championship. High rollers regularly visit League 1.

 

No way will these guys be putting themselves at risk to swapping places with a B team, however unlikely it may seem. Regular League football for groups of very talented kids - heaven help us all. 

 

 

I'll ignore the If's jibe, you may as well have called me a paedo or United supporter. But I used if to be accused of stating what would happen, but it's what I believe could well happen.
The current format is to be continued because the Prem clubs have offered the same or more money.

The article is a fluff piece of propaganda, and facts not that hard to find if you look.

eg

t also states that there is ‘solid support within the EFL to develop the competition’, ‘clubs had seen crowds and gate receipts up owing to regionalization’. Also, ‘fears that the innovations might also provide a gateway for B teams into the football pyramid have proved unfounded’.
Well they would say that wouldn't they.  Col.chster and Oxford both had their  3rd lowest attendances in their history. Sunderland are accounting for more of it themselves. More of them than our last 2years of games.
Attendance increases have been minimal part form the final. the quote about increase attendances misses out a crucial "some" clubs.

 

Of course there are many other factors that could lead to relegation, I did not list them all, but if B Teams were included then it would be more difficult. Some traditional clubs would fold, and Prem clubs would chuck money and subsidse pricing for B Teams to get their attendances up in a League to justify it. The future is not that hard to predict.

Promotion would be limited, like it is in Spain. I would guess to L1. So no fear for the Prem teams there.
Divide and conquer, like the Checkatrade, and promise some of the billions the Prem has, and plenty will vote for the carrot.

 

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Any Holt, chairman of Accrington Stanley has revealed that the FL have removed the block in 3pm Saturday streaming, citing the international break.

Obviously affecting the attendances.  Quite a few clubs unaware, including us, and not discussed at their conf in Portugal he says.

 


 

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