Londonboy Posted October 5, 2018 Share Posted October 5, 2018 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p-2lPxgtC60 Our club today is in a giant bloody hole, which seems to be getting deeper by the day, with no obvious way out. (barring a "genuine" multi millionaire buying us, building a new stadium and trying to buy back the days of the pinch me years which is pretty unlikely) The attached link explains pretty simply about how fan owned clubs work and the various options available. I for one would 100% support this type of initiative. Appreciate this will probably never lead us back to the glory days, but it would make us feel like a REAL football club again, and not the joke of a club that we are today. The current fan owned clubs seem to be a happy places and they have had some success'. I'm totally fucked off with the charlatans and wasters from the past 15 years, who have systematically destroyed a club I have supported for over 40 years. Since that fraudster Chris Moore bailed out 15 years ago, we have been in steady decline, and its a minor miracle that we are actually still a football league football club today imo. I would happily pledge and invest in a piece of our football club, as I suggest would hundreds of others, if it meant genuine Latics supporters taking control of the club, and putting an end to what seems to be a never ending circus. I don't confess to understanding how something like this starts...or even if its viable, but if the debt is drastically reduced compared to what is was 12 months ago, then I wonder how much it would take to "purchase" 51% of the club from our illusive chairman. If the rumors he is skint are correct I guess he'd welcome the chance to get out while he can and give it up for nothing!! Just a thought.....all views any any expertise on this subject welcome! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yarddog73 Posted October 5, 2018 Share Posted October 5, 2018 Doesn't work for me, you end up with factions and disenchantment particularly if a fan like Barry and all his failings wormed his way on to the board. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jorvik_latic Posted October 5, 2018 Share Posted October 5, 2018 All is not rosy at fan owned clubs.... https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/36485893 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Londonboy Posted October 5, 2018 Author Share Posted October 5, 2018 1 minute ago, jorvik_latic said: All is not rosy at fan owned clubs.... https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/36485893 Not saying it would be easy... However was over 2 years ago and a club formed out of protest. Look at the likes of Wycombe and Exeter. They seem to be doing OK. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Londonboy Posted October 5, 2018 Author Share Posted October 5, 2018 7 minutes ago, yarddog73 said: Doesn't work for me, you end up with factions and disenchantment particularly if a fan like Barry and all his failings wormed his way on to the board. Yep this could happen, but unlikey I think if managed correctly... And is it really any worse though than the past 15 years? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldhamoafc Posted October 5, 2018 Share Posted October 5, 2018 Not a chance at a club like ours. We have the most batshit crazy fans in the country... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GlossopLatic Posted October 5, 2018 Share Posted October 5, 2018 Even when you take the fact that fans will squabble with each other worse than the tories over Brexit you are still looking at a club like ours needing £500k per year just to cover the losses.If you could get the funding amd strong leadership then it would work I dont think we could get either. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deyres42 Posted October 5, 2018 Share Posted October 5, 2018 Fan owned no, but the dangers of being reliant on one man are oh so apparent. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kowenicki Posted October 5, 2018 Share Posted October 5, 2018 Fan owned clubs.... ....won’t succeed. Naive in the extreme to believe in it as a long term solution in English football. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Latics and England Posted October 5, 2018 Share Posted October 5, 2018 Fan owned clubs are a fantastic concept in a league full of fan owned clubs. Unfortunately that isn't the reality. A fan owned club surrounded by clubs with benefactors are highly unlikely to succeed. It is difficult to raise the kind of money that would be needed to run the club in the first instance but the key is the amount needed to keep it running over a period if time. Not many people can afford to keep ploughing money in year after year especially as you know that you ultimately don't get any real benefit from it. I think most of the relatively successful fan owned clubs actually have one or two relatively large investors within that fan ownership. We might have someone within the fan base who would be that person to put the money in but I wouldn't want to gamble on it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
latics22 Posted October 5, 2018 Share Posted October 5, 2018 3 minutes ago, Latics and England said: Fan owned clubs are a fantastic concept in a league full of fan owned clubs. Unfortunately that isn't the reality. A fan owned club surrounded by clubs with benefactors are highly unlikely to succeed. It is difficult to raise the kind of money that would be needed to run the club in the first instance but the key is the amount needed to keep it running over a period if time. Not many people can afford to keep ploughing money in year after year especially as you know that you ultimately don't get any real benefit from it. I think most of the relatively successful fan owned clubs actually have one or two relatively large investors within that fan ownership. We might have someone within the fan base who would be that person to put the money in but I wouldn't want to gamble on it. That’s my concern, can it realistically be on par wit the shit we are suffering now?Never mind better ?even if every one of the 4K fans contributed say, realistically 10 per week. not many can really afford 40 a month. Even if they can they won’t be willing too. With every one the 4 k contributioning 10 a month thats 40 k. Fuck all, say u go 4 times that still only 160000. No where near enough. Fan ownership for a league club our size, makes us a none league club. Better than nothing, but as miserable concept for a team that founded the premier league Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
robboman Posted October 5, 2018 Share Posted October 5, 2018 (edited) Edited October 5, 2018 by robboman Pissed Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
robboman Posted October 5, 2018 Share Posted October 5, 2018 3000 die hard fans. If each contributed £20 a week every week it'd be over £3 million. At first I thought no chance but after I did the calculation properly (whilst intoxicated) it's not impossible? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rudemedic Posted October 5, 2018 Share Posted October 5, 2018 (edited) 47 minutes ago, latics22 said: That’s my concern, can it realistically be on par wit the shit we are suffering now?Never mind better ?even if every one of the 4K fans contributed say, realistically 10 per week. not many can really afford 40 a month. Even if they can they won’t be willing too. With every one the 4 k contributioning 10 a month thats 40 k. Fuck all, say u go 4 times that still only 160000. No where near enough. Fan ownership for a league club our size, makes us a none league club. Better than nothing, but as miserable concept for a team that founded the premier league Indeed, although the most recent finances indicated that we lost £9k a week. But that includes accounting for ticket sales, which are effectively £10/week (a game every 2 weeks at £20 per game). The home attendance increase by reducing the prices by £2 or £4 has been noticeable. There’s no way enough people will pay £X/week on top of what they already pay for tickets to cover our losses, without some benefit. Some people already pay extra into the club through Playershare. If a rainy-day fund was set-up akin to Playershare to keep the club (temporarily) afloat in the event of the club going under, I’d be more inclined to pay into that than I am Playershare. I’d certainly use a cash-back Webshop type thing to contribute. However, I’d want some reassurances that the funds would only be used to keep the club afloat, not to fund a tractor or a new pitch etc for someone richer than me who can’t afford to run a football club. (Or a seat on the board of said football club too). If managed properly a fund like that could be viable to keeping the club afloat for a significant period of time after a few years. Eventually a fund like that could give the opportunity for true fan ownership. Oviedo in Spain did a worldwide shareholder thing that I know a few people on here contributed to. That could be another option as I’m sure the guys from Frankfurt, as an example, would contribute. Edited October 5, 2018 by rudemedic Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
League one forever Posted October 5, 2018 Share Posted October 5, 2018 What level of football would people realistically watch, if it meant we truly lived within our means?? What matters to you all? A, a successful-ish side loaned to hilt- Bury. (I know they got relegated but they also got promoted out of this league paying big wages, and still ended up back where they started. But at least they had the ride for a while) B, no success and struggle on Rochdale in years gone by. C. Drop further, but everyone is paid/happy. As others have alluded to, I think we delude ourselves of the amount of money needed to be successful at our level. A prime example is Fleetwood. There chairman must of pumped many millions into that club - to be doing ok in league one. We are nowhere near that level of investment, and let’s be honest it’s that sort of money that gets you places. Its got to stage for me, where the football has become secondary to what I want the club to be about. I’m probably in the minority, but there hey ho. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GlossopLatic Posted October 6, 2018 Share Posted October 6, 2018 6 hours ago, latics22 said: That’s my concern, can it realistically be on par wit the shit we are suffering now?Never mind better ?even if every one of the 4K fans contributed say, realistically 10 per week. not many can really afford 40 a month. Even if they can they won’t be willing too. With every one the 4 k contributioning 10 a month thats 40 k. Fuck all, say u go 4 times that still only 160000. No where near enough. Fan ownership for a league club our size, makes us a none league club. Better than nothing, but as miserable concept for a team that founded the premier league 4000 fans contributing £10 a week would be £40k a week thats what over £2million per year that would easily work and would see us have a very competitive side at this level and probably be comfortable at the one above too. We could then say elect/ appoint a president/chairman who would make the decisions/run the club over a 4 year tenure say before he was up for reelection. The downside of that is getting 4000 fans to consistantly spend another £500 a year ontop of what they are doing now on Latics and you simply wouldnt get enough people prepared to commit to it Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
latics22 Posted October 6, 2018 Share Posted October 6, 2018 2 hours ago, GlossopLatic said: 4000 fans contributing £10 a week would be £40k a week thats what over £2million per year that would easily work and would see us have a very competitive side at this level and probably be comfortable at the one above too. We could then say elect/ appoint a president/chairman who would make the decisions/run the club over a 4 year tenure say before he was up for reelection. The downside of that is getting 4000 fans to consistantly spend another £500 a year ontop of what they are doing now on Latics and you simply wouldnt get enough people prepared to commit to it Exactly, no way would even half pay on a regular basis. I think we may just have to accept, that we may slip a bit further down the pyramid. The fan base won’t drop that much and we will hopefully become a decent team but lower down. I’d still go and would be cheaper. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikeroyboy Posted October 6, 2018 Share Posted October 6, 2018 All clubs have different circumstances, possibly the most critical being fan base. To even surmise that we can rely on 3,000 hardcore fans to back ownership is way off the mark, IMO. You can immediately discount virtually all children, youths and pensioners. This includes a group of six I sit with. The game is already too expensive for most fans. The few hundred increase on the gate this season are hardly likely to be interested in paying more. Ownership would compound the difficulties in running a league club not improve them. Any euphoria would be short lived when the fan on the terrace realised that we still had to depend on the Magic Roundabout lucky dip for management and coaching staff. Who in turn would be depending on a stroke of luck with the conveyor belt of out of form, out of luck and out of a job pod of players swilling through the lower leagues every summer. League Football is not Roy of the Rovers nor is it profitable. Unless you are very, very lucky. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kowenicki Posted October 6, 2018 Share Posted October 6, 2018 4000 fans paying 20 per week for 52 weeks. As I said, naive. Have you seen the bitching that goes on about season ticket prices here... which actually work out at less than half this amount spread over a calendar year! It wouldnt happen and its its not enough anyway. Our 4000 fans that can just about be arsed turning up every OTHER week during the season includes a hell of a lot of kids and pensioners. This thread is ludicrous. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andy-latic Posted October 6, 2018 Share Posted October 6, 2018 12 minutes ago, kowenicki said: 4000 fans paying 20 per week for 52 weeks. As I said, naive. Have you seen the bitching that goes on about season ticket prices here... which actually work out at less than half this amount spread over a calendar year! It wouldnt happen and its its not enough anyway. Our 4000 fans that can just about be arsed turning up every OTHER week during the season includes a hell of a lot of kids and pensioners. This thread is ludicrous. True, but I'd suggest there would be a couple of hundred who would be willing to put in considerably more than 20 quid a week Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Midsblue Posted October 6, 2018 Share Posted October 6, 2018 How much is paid into playershare each week? If the fan base can’t afford (or unwilling to pay) £10 a week that goes directly to squad strengthening, do you honestly think they’d part that to pay for running costs, tax bills, maintenance etc etc? Granted if if the club HAD to be fan-funded to survive then those numbers would increase but I’m afraid a large majority still wouldn’t. They pay their season-ticket, buy a shirt, a programme etc and that’s their obligation. If the club folded then they’d be sadness, a huge hole on Saturdays and occasional Tuesdays for nine months of the year but within a short time, something else would occupy your weekends. Only way a fan-funded club works is if that fan has millions to blow - Hardy at Notts County, Hoyle at Huddersfield etc. Im still bemused that ALs true wealth or financial means haven’t been identified or disclosed somewhere. Surely it had to be evidenced to the EFL? Surely Barry has an inkling? It’s just gone very quiet and the promised openness, transparency and regular communication hasn’t materialised. Does AL still attend matches and is he based regularly at BP or even in the country? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
underdog Posted October 6, 2018 Share Posted October 6, 2018 I'll be honest and say the Trust did look into this a few seasons ago when we had concerns over the previous owner. Simon Brooke proposed it and was in tentative discussions with the landlord (Brassbank) of their financial support of it. (To get us to a zero balance to makes us more financially attractive to a potential buyer) The Trust would step in, run the club for a 6 month period until a new buyer was found...or to raise the necessary finances/cut our cloth accordingly to keep the club going. Unfortunatly, the previous owner found out, you can imagine his displeasure. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
archiecat Posted October 6, 2018 Share Posted October 6, 2018 16 minutes ago, underdog said: I'll be honest and say the Trust did look into this a few seasons ago when we had concerns over the previous owner. Simon Brooke proposed it and was in tentative discussions with the landlord (Brassbank) of their financial support of it. (To get us to a zero balance to makes us more financially attractive to a potential buyer) The Trust would step in, run the club for a 6 month period until a new buyer was found...or to raise the necessary finances/cut our cloth accordingly to keep the club going. Unfortunatly, the previous owner found out, you can imagine his displeasure. Et tu Underdog, poor old Corney no wonder he didn't like you lot eh Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
latics22 Posted October 6, 2018 Share Posted October 6, 2018 57 minutes ago, underdog said: I'll be honest and say the Trust did look into this a few seasons ago when we had concerns over the previous owner. Simon Brooke proposed it and was in tentative discussions with the landlord (Brassbank) of their financial support of it. (To get us to a zero balance to makes us more financially attractive to a potential buyer) The Trust would step in, run the club for a 6 month period until a new buyer was found...or to raise the necessary finances/cut our cloth accordingly to keep the club going. Unfortunatly, the previous owner found out, you can imagine his displeasure. So are there funds in place to run the club for 6 months? Surely not? im assuming al needed the money for Baxter instead of what he said, wanting to involve the fans in the Baxter deal. Or words to that effect. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kowenicki Posted October 6, 2018 Share Posted October 6, 2018 1 hour ago, underdog said: I'll be honest and say the Trust did look into this a few seasons ago when we had concerns over the previous owner. Simon Brooke proposed it and was in tentative discussions with the landlord (Brassbank) of their financial support of it. (To get us to a zero balance to makes us more financially attractive to a potential buyer) The Trust would step in, run the club for a 6 month period until a new buyer was found...or to raise the necessary finances/cut our cloth accordingly to keep the club going. Unfortunatly, the previous owner found out, you can imagine his displeasure. Intresting revelation. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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