Administration

[peanuts]

Talking to a Swans driver today he confirmed it was common knowledge amongst the staff that we owe thousands for away travel .

[True Tic]

1 hour ago, singe said:

 

Interesting Blue that you choose to believe one rumour about the salary demand but none of the following, that have a credible source/s:

Communication regards team slection and actions to affect player availability

Visits to the dressing room despite being asked not too

Promising to change ways, but then reneging on that

Gas supply interruption
Coach not turning up

Coach company change from highly reputable to dodgy

30+ staff  replaced
Contract discussions behind managers back
Player disciplinary actions without manager knowledge
Refusal to engage Trust
Arranging a clandestine meeting at short notice with a select group of fans on the eve of an open meeting of 150 fans, whislt all the time claiming to want to buld better fan rapport
As well as the more proven actions such as nepotism appointing your brother to the 2nd most senior positon after (another rumour) he failed the notoriously lax fit and proper person test.

Amongst others.

Inflated wages for nondescript players
 

How can you not lost some respect for someone for any of those, much less all of them?

 

 

 

Problem for us is that its all rumours really on both sides, although its probably a fair bet we are being run like a circus by the chairman based on all the anecdotal stuff.

 

Bunn has been silent, and Rhodes and Scholes apart from his brief farewell statement. Yes I know Bunn went after the Carlisle drubbing but he went bloody sharpish with no parting comments afterwards.

 

If its all really that bad, surely one of the above (or all) who all claim to love the club, could be a bit more vocal about how dire the situation really is.

 

 

[lookersstandandy]

1 hour ago, peanuts said:

Talking to a Swans driver today he confirmed it was common knowledge amongst the staff that we owe thousands for away travel .

 

If the coach travel/rental industry works anything like the one I work in..... if I worked at Orion Coaches I would've called someone at Swans Travel and said....

 

"How come you've not got Oldham Athletic's contract anymore?"

 

Assuming I got the reply....

 

"They owe us £X for Y journey's/months and we've had enough, so we resigned the account, I'd be careful if I were you".

 

....my next move would've been to say I'll take the contract on the condition they pay up front. I might even hike the rate knowing that one of my competitors wouldn't undercut me.

 

 

Edited March 25, 2019 by lookersstandandy

[BP1960]

1 hour ago, peanuts said:

Talking to a Swans driver today he confirmed it was common knowledge amongst the staff that we owe thousands for away travel .

 

Always the smaller companies who take a hit, same with administration.

It's something that needs changing, but know it won't.

 

 

[singe]

2 hours ago, BP1960 said:

 

Always the smaller companies who take a hit, same with administration.

It's something that needs changing, but know it won't.

 

 

I do agree, but in this particular case Swans is quite a big multi million pound company, and Orion is tiny in comparison.

[Frankly Mr Shankly]

7 hours ago, JoeP said:

I think I'd rather risk administration now and try and find a buyer while we're in the league rather than wait until AL has taken us to the Conference North and then go through the process...

 

This!

 

Scaremongering tactics such as that Port Vale Chairman should be served to galvanise and unify the fanbase. We're at the tipping point now as I see it and unless AL steps forward with a credible plan of action for the future and assurances given to the Trust then he shouldn't be supported and the proper protests should start. He's a year into his tenure after the best part of a decade stagnating. Having seen what the division held first hand since relegation we should've been bouncing straight back up if what he's said so far is to be believed. We absolutely have no time left to just float off on a sea of apathy being fed lie after lie by a charlatan owner.

[Dave_Og]

Never forget that the primary responsibility of an administrator is to maximise the assets that can be recovered for creditors. It isn't to keep a business going at any cost and their first obligation on appointment would be to assess whether keeping the business limping along gives a more realistic chance of that happening than a swift bullet to the head would. For a business with virtually no saleable assets that decision could well be made pretty quickly. 

 

Too many people always seem to assume that the club would emerge in reasonable shape from such a process. That very nearly wasn't the case last time and there are no guarantees available this time. 

[laticsmarra]

45 minutes ago, Dave_Og said:

Never forget that the primary responsibility of an administrator is to maximise the assets that can be recovered for creditors. It isn't to keep a business going at any cost and their first obligation on appointment would be to assess whether keeping the business limping along gives a more realistic chance of that happening than a swift bullet to the head would. For a business with virtually no saleable assets that decision could well be made pretty quickly. 

 

Too many people always seem to assume that the club would emerge in reasonable shape from such a process. That very nearly wasn't the case last time and there are no guarantees available this time. 

That is true but it maybe that a buyer would be in the wings to immediately buy the club debt free out of Administration.

[Dave_Og]

3 minutes ago, laticsmarra said:

That is true but it maybe that a buyer would be in the wings to immediately buy the club debt free out of Administration.

 

maybes don't butter many parsnips

[laticsmarra]

2 minutes ago, Dave_Og said:

 

maybes don't butter many parsnips

The process is :deal agreed,go into Admin and then buy out of Admin as quick as you responded to me

[Dave_Og]

Just now, laticsmarra said:

The process is :deal agreed,go into Admin and then buy out of Admin as quick as you responded to me

 

And leave the creditors out of pocket.  Morally dubious at best.

[laticsmarra]

Just now, Dave_Og said:

 

And leave the creditors out of pocket.  Morally dubious at best.

True, but the Adminstrators have to prove to the court that the body of creditors as a whole would be better off by going into Administration than continuing to trade.

[wiseowl]

14 hours ago, JoeP said:

I think I'd rather risk administration now and try and find a buyer while we're in the league rather than wait until AL has taken us to the Conference North and then go through the process...

 

14 hours ago, deyres42 said:

Not that it is going to happen but administration still has to be funded, who does that?

 

14 hours ago, JoeP said:

 

Who normally funds it?

 

Who funded it when Chis Moore fecked off?

People need to understand that Administration is a form of insolvency; you can't just "go into Administration" - the company has to be insolvent. The Administrator/s' fees are paid for out of company assets (they come first, even ahead of a floating charge holder). Now think about this for a minute when casually talking about Administration as some kind of possible "good thing"; the "owner" owns very little (think North Stand, other land etc. which he doesn't own) - there is essentially very little of value in Oldham Athletic (2004) AFC Ltd - can't think any of our players would fetch very much in a "forced sale" environment.

 

In my opinion, Administration (unless there was what is known as a pre pack Administration i.e. pre-arranged sale to a new company - same owner - or 3rd party) would be the end of our football club. Fans need to understand AL owns very little - Administration would be the end, the rest of the assets at BP (i.e. those currently owned by Blitz etc) would be sold off and you would either have "Boundary Park Retail Centre" or "Boundary Park Housing Estate" instead of a football club.

 

I am sure that there are people within the Trust who understand the complexities of what we are talking about here - this wouldn't be a normal Administration scenario as ownership of various bits of BP is fragmented. Until fans get their heads around this and understand it, we are in danger of sleepwalking into oblivion. 

[JoeP]

7 hours ago, wiseowl said:

 

 

People need to understand that Administration is a form of insolvency; you can't just "go into Administration" - the company has to be insolvent. The Administrator/s' fees are paid for out of company assets (they come first, even ahead of a floating charge holder). Now think about this for a minute when casually talking about Administration as some kind of possible "good thing"; the "owner" owns very little (think North Stand, other land etc. which he doesn't own) - there is essentially very little of value in Oldham Athletic (2004) AFC Ltd - can't think any of our players would fetch very much in a "forced sale" environment.

 

In my opinion, Administration (unless there was what is known as a pre pack Administration i.e. pre-arranged sale to a new company - same owner - or 3rd party) would be the end of our football club. Fans need to understand AL owns very little - Administration would be the end, the rest of the assets at BP (i.e. those currently owned by Blitz etc) would be sold off and you would either have "Boundary Park Retail Centre" or "Boundary Park Housing Estate" instead of a football club.

 

I am sure that there are people within the Trust who understand the complexities of what we are talking about here - this wouldn't be a normal Administration scenario as ownership of various bits of BP is fragmented. Until fans get their heads around this and understand it, we are in danger of sleepwalking into oblivion. 

 

Even so - if it's going to happen, surely it's better it happens sooner, while we're still in the league, rather than later, when we're in the Conference North when even less people give a shit? 

 

Thankfully we've probably scraped together enough points to be safe this season - we carry on like this, on and off the pitch, into next season and we'll probably be down by Christmas.  We'll be more attractive to an investor/buyer and stand more of a chance of surviving administration if we're still in the league, so I'd rather it happened now, to be honest.

 

For what it's worth, I don't actually think Administration would be a good thing in any way, but I was just contributing to the other curious predictions that people are making about events that would take us forward (e.g "Anyone but Corney" in charge, Relegation, etc..)

 

 

[Whitts]

Administration is only applicable for a business that is still viable under a restructuring.  It's not as simple as a points deduction and then move  on.  Without assets the reality is more likely to be liquidation.  The answer has to be to get the owner to run our club properly or sell to another interested party who will.  In my opinion, the owner entering into some meaningful dialogue with the Trust has to be the way forward so we can understand his motives and future plans for OAFC.  This club is at a crossroads and everyone; owner, fans, trust and brass bank have to work together together for it to go in the right direction.

[latics22]

If we were a dog, we’d have been put out of our misery by now

[singe]

2 minutes ago, Whitts said:

Administration is only applicable for a business that is still viable under a restructuring.  It's not as simple as a points deduction and then move  on.  Without assets the reality is more likely to be liquidation.  The answer has to be to get the owner to run our club properly or sell to another interested party who will.  In my opinion, the owner entering into some meaningful dialogue with the Trust has to be the way forward so we can understand his motives and future plans for OAFC.  This club is at a crossroads and everyone; owner, fans, trust and brass bank have to work together together for it to go in the right direction.

It seems that Brassbank and the Trust  are working together, and an increasing number of fans. Over to Mr Lensagem, whose actions need to start matching his words. 

[Andy b]

2 hours ago, JoeP said:

 

Even so - if it's going to happen, surely it's better it happens sooner, while we're still in the league, rather than later, when we're in the Conference North when even less people give a shit? 

 

Thankfully we've probably scraped together enough points to be safe this season - we carry on like this, on and off the pitch, into next season and we'll probably be down by Christmas.  We'll be more attractive to an investor/buyer and stand more of a chance of surviving administration if we're still in the league, so I'd rather it happened now, to be honest.

 

For what it's worth, I don't actually think Administration would be a good thing in any way, but I was just contributing to the other curious predictions that people are making about events that would take us forward (e.g "Anyone but Corney" in charge, Relegation, etc..)

 

 

No one has said anyone but corney. That doesn’t mean people were happy with corney.

 

no one said relegation will take us forward. That doesn’t mean preventing relegation trumps everything else.

[Dave_Og]

21 minutes ago, Andy b said:

No one has said anyone but corney. That doesn’t mean people were happy with corney.

 

no one said relegation will take us forward. That doesn’t mean preventing relegation trumps everything else.

Plenty did, on both counts. 

[JoeP]

1 hour ago, Andy b said:

No one has said anyone but corney. That doesn’t mean people were happy with corney.

 

They have - I’ve read it on this forum (and I’ve heard people say it who don’t use this forum). I wasn’t happy with Corney, but realised that a better option was probably not going to be in the guise of a “former” agent with no plan.

 

1 hour ago, Andy b said:

no one said relegation will take us forward. That doesn’t mean preventing relegation trumps everything else.

 

You know what, I’m not convinced that should be the case. How far down do we have to go before we say this is getting silly? I’ve seen Latics be relegated three times, each time with the plan to rebuild and come back stronger. It hasn’t happened - things have just got worse.

 

Surely the time to rebuild is now, while we’ve got the relative glamour of league football? As I’ve said in a previous post - less people will care about us or find us an attractive proposition to invest in if we’re in the Conference North.

Edited March 26, 2019 by JoeP

[True Tic]

Preventing relegation trumps the vast majority of things, after watching Latics plummet over 30 years or so I cant buy into the phoenix from the flames theory.

 

We never seem to bounce back and more worryingly we always struggle in the league we drop into, I mean as things stand now I'm struggling to see where the next 3 points are coming from after the last month or so. I cant see us getting anything on Sat for starters.

 

 

[oafc1955]

The way things are going, football outside of the ‘premiership’ will be gone. Some of the big clubs in the Championship are so deep in debt sooner rather than later the whole thing will implode.

 

The only people making money, and shedloads of it, are the players. It’s a situation that simply has to be addressed.

 

Player salaries need to be capped, they are earning far too much and is just totally unsustainable.

 

This needs to be implemented ( albeit on a smaller scale) down through the leagues.

 

[TheBigDog]

23 minutes ago, oafc1955 said:

Player salaries need to be capped, they are earning far too much and is just totally unsustainable.

 

Agree. If that happened, it would have to be implemented across all EUFA countries and need the agreement of all the big clubs. However one outcome could see the bigger clubs pushing for that oft touted European Super League where they can run their own league outside of EUFA.  

 

Maybe we need harsher penalties for clubs that spend beyond their means. Either way the rich clubs will simply get richer.

 

whatever happens football will survive... and maybe even rediscover it’s soul

 

Edited March 26, 2019 by TheBigDog

[wiseowl]

11 minutes ago, oafc1955 said:

The only people making money, and shedloads of it, are the players. It’s a situation that simply has to be addressed.

 

Player salaries need to be capped, they are earning far too much and is just totally unsustainable.

 

This needs to be implemented ( albeit on a smaller scale) down through the leagues.

 

Absolutely spot on.

 

It drives my wife mad but, to this day, I refuse to subscribe to Sky in any form (always resisted). I made this decision when Sky first got involved with football screening rights. I said then that it would eventually see the ruin of lower league footbal - I don't think the day is far off when clubs will be going bust, left, right and centre.

 

As you say, 1955, the root cause is the abhorrent greed of players (and their agents). There should be an absolute maximum salary cap of 20,000 pounds per week, in my opinion. Before anyone scoffs at that, it's over a million pounds per annum!

 

The salaries being paid now are so unrealistic and I don't care if it makes foreign players stay on the continent etc. - let them stay there - and let our greedy bar stewards go there too if they like. It would bring back some realism to football and the plastic "Premiership fans" will still sit in the pubs and watch their little darlings on Sky.

 

The net effect on teams like us is that strikers who very rarely score (AAH for example) are/were being paid around 2,500 pounds a week. You couldn't make it up.

[True Tic]

1 hour ago, oafc1955 said:

The way things are going, football outside of the ‘premiership’ will be gone. Some of the big clubs in the Championship are so deep in debt sooner rather than later the whole thing will implode.

 

The only people making money, and shedloads of it, are the players. It’s a situation that simply has to be addressed.

 

Player salaries need to be capped, they are earning far too much and is just totally unsustainable.

 

This needs to be implemented ( albeit on a smaller scale) down through the leagues.

 

Absolutely, player wages have been squeezing clubs and their fans for too long, and more often than not the return for that crazy investment is a big fat zero.