oafc1955 Posted May 13, 2019 Share Posted May 13, 2019 4 minutes ago, longtimeblue said: They won it in 91/92. 92/93 was the first Premier League. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Worcester Owl Posted May 14, 2019 Share Posted May 14, 2019 Https://Twitter.com/andyhholt/status/1128160367794905091?s=12 Slightly off-topic as it covers a number of clubs with financial problems, but what a statement on the condition of our national game. If only we could find an owner like Accrington’s. If the halfwits at the FA and FL do throw the book at him I hope he’ll fight them all the way - and win. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mcfluff1985 Posted May 14, 2019 Share Posted May 14, 2019 4 hours ago, Worcester Owl said: Https://Twitter.com/andyhholt/status/1128160367794905091?s=12 Slightly off-topic as it covers a number of clubs with financial problems, but what a statement on the condition of our national game. If only we could find an owner like Accrington’s. If the halfwits at the FA and FL do throw the book at him I hope he’ll fight them all the way - and win. Like he says. They don't care though. Only care about the big boys that make them money. Accrington can go out of business as could we and the premier league and efl will still be paying their chief execs massive amounts Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheBigDog Posted May 20, 2019 Share Posted May 20, 2019 Expectations for next season? Survival. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HarryBosch Posted May 20, 2019 Share Posted May 20, 2019 On 5/14/2019 at 1:45 PM, Worcester Owl said: Https://Twitter.com/andyhholt/status/1128160367794905091?s=12 Slightly off-topic as it covers a number of clubs with financial problems, but what a statement on the condition of our national game. If only we could find an owner like Accrington’s. If the halfwits at the FA and FL do throw the book at him I hope he’ll fight them all the way - and win. Everytime one of you blows smoke up this guys arse on the back of one of his rants I always seem to immediately see contradiction... This is a long thread bemoaning a lack of assistance, financial or otherwise, from the Fa and EFL yet in that same thread, his own same thread, he says "We are profitable and have net assets rather than liabilities." So, if he can do it, and get a small club promoted whilst doing it, why can't everyone else? Why is he saying clubs need more handouts (I think that's what he's saying?) rather than more clubs should run themselves in the manner he does? Why is he not pushing the idea of just paying players less, or having fewer highly paid players and living within your means, like he seems to be saying Accy are...? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GlossopLatic Posted May 20, 2019 Share Posted May 20, 2019 5 minutes ago, HarryBosch said: Everytime one of you blows smoke up this guys arse on the back of one of his rants I always seem to immediately see contradiction... This is a long thread bemoaning a lack of assistance, financial or otherwise, from the Fa and EFL yet in that same thread, his own same thread, he says "We are profitable and have net assets rather than liabilities." So, if he can do it, and get a small club promoted whilst doing it, why can't everyone else? Why is he saying clubs need more handouts (I think that's what he's saying?) rather than more clubs should run themselves in the manner he does? Why is he not pushing the idea of just paying players less, or having fewer highly paid players and living within your means, like he seems to be saying Accy are...? Its a fair point, but is it not upto the football league to try and get teams to follow that route. Perhaps more needs to be done to get football clubs to run within their means. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HarryBosch Posted May 20, 2019 Share Posted May 20, 2019 (edited) 15 minutes ago, GlossopLatic said: Its a fair point, but is it not upto the football league to try and get teams to follow that route. He seems to be saying it is. But also saying they should subsidise clubs to an even greater extent. I'm confused Edited May 20, 2019 by HarryBosch Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deyres42 Posted May 20, 2019 Share Posted May 20, 2019 32 minutes ago, HarryBosch said: Everytime one of you blows smoke up this guys arse on the back of one of his rants I always seem to immediately see contradiction... This is a long thread bemoaning a lack of assistance, financial or otherwise, from the Fa and EFL yet in that same thread, his own same thread, he says "We are profitable and have net assets rather than liabilities." So, if he can do it, and get a small club promoted whilst doing it, why can't everyone else? Why is he saying clubs need more handouts (I think that's what he's saying?) rather than more clubs should run themselves in the manner he does? Why is he not pushing the idea of just paying players less, or having fewer highly paid players and living within your means, like he seems to be saying Accy are...? Easier to live within your means when there are basically no expectations on you? Given some of our fans think we should be two leagues higher I can see why so many clubs get into difficulty. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HarryBosch Posted May 20, 2019 Share Posted May 20, 2019 12 minutes ago, deyres42 said: Easier to live within your means when there are basically no expectations on you? Given some of our fans think we should be two leagues higher I can see why so many clubs get into difficulty. More of our fans also bemoan the fact that the current owner, and the previous one, pay no attention to them so where's the problem? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lookersstandandy Posted May 20, 2019 Share Posted May 20, 2019 2 hours ago, HarryBosch said: Everytime one of you blows smoke up this guys arse on the back of one of his rants I always seem to immediately see contradiction... This is a long thread bemoaning a lack of assistance, financial or otherwise, from the Fa and EFL yet in that same thread, his own same thread, he says "We are profitable and have net assets rather than liabilities." So, if he can do it, and get a small club promoted whilst doing it, why can't everyone else? Why is he saying clubs need more handouts (I think that's what he's saying?) rather than more clubs should run themselves in the manner he does? Why is he not pushing the idea of just paying players less, or having fewer highly paid players and living within your means, like he seems to be saying Accy are...? ....but Accy will NEVER be able to compete in the Championship, say, because a) The system is so f*cked in favour of the few and b) because he’s unwilling to gamble their very existence on trying to. His answer is fairer regulation to encourage more responsible behaviour for all, to protect what are in effect assets of community value, as opposed to capitalist companies that should expect mergers/acquisitions, to be liquidated and created at will. I marvel at the hypocrisy of some folk I know, liberals or socialists, who deplore the city, bankers, fat cats and yet celebrate the opening of their multi billion pound stadia and multi millionaire footballers without any concern for the lower league football club down the road who can’t afford the gas bill. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Worcester Owl Posted May 20, 2019 Share Posted May 20, 2019 29 minutes ago, lookersstandandy said: ....but Accy will NEVER be able to compete in the Championship, say, because a) The system is so f*cked in favour of the few and b) because he’s unwilling to gamble their very existence on trying to. His answer is fairer regulation to encourage more responsible behaviour for all, to protect what are in effect assets of community value, as opposed to capitalist companies that should expect mergers/acquisitions, to be liquidated and created at will. I marvel at the hypocrisy of some folk I know, liberals or socialists, who deplore the city, bankers, fat cats and yet celebrate the opening of their multi billion pound stadia and multi millionaire footballers without any concern for the lower league football club down the road who can’t afford the gas bill. This. For Bosch's benefit, I wasn't "blowing smoke" up anyone's arse, least of all that of the Accrington owner. A strange comment, come to think about it, but let us leave Harold to his anal fixation. The posts were in my view a good summary of the desperate state of professional football in this country, where a small number of clubs can now earn/spend huge sums every year and the rest of the 92 seem to get ever more impoverished. If some people think that's fine and there's nothing to worry about, then I'd say they are misguided. The gulf between the haves and have nots runs much deeper than the question of whether some clubs/owners are living beyond their means, as lookersstandandy points out above. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HarryBosch Posted May 20, 2019 Share Posted May 20, 2019 4 hours ago, lookersstandandy said: ....but Accy will NEVER be able to compete in the Championship, say, because a) The system is so f*cked in favour of the few and b) because he’s unwilling to gamble their very existence on trying to. His answer is fairer regulation to encourage more responsible behaviour for all, to protect what are in effect assets of community value, as opposed to capitalist companies that should expect mergers/acquisitions, to be liquidated and created at will. You want to kiss him on the lips don't you Andy 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HarryBosch Posted May 20, 2019 Share Posted May 20, 2019 (edited) 4 hours ago, lookersstandandy said: I marvel at the hypocrisy of some folk I know, liberals or socialists, who deplore the city, bankers, fat cats and yet celebrate the opening of their multi billion pound stadia and multi millionaire footballers without any concern for the lower league football club down the road who can’t afford the gas bill. Tesco don't subsidise Jav's Mini Market, why should United subsidise us? Clubs at our level just need to pay players less. There's always been a monopoly at the top and there always will be. Liverpool won everything when I was a kid just like City are doing now. The only difference was smaller clubs didn't publicise or bleat about their financial woes the way they do nowadays... None of them ultimately went bump then, none of us do now... Edited May 20, 2019 by HarryBosch 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lee Sinnott Posted May 20, 2019 Share Posted May 20, 2019 3 minutes ago, HarryBosch said: Tesco don't subsidise Jav's Mini Market, why should United subsidise us? Clubs at our level just need to pay players less. There's always been a monopoly at the top and there always will be. Liverpool won everything when I was a kid just like City are doing now. The only difference was smaller clubs didn't publicise or bleat about their financial woes the way they do nowadays... None of them ultimately went bump then, none of us do now... Gotta agree with that... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oafcmetty Posted May 20, 2019 Share Posted May 20, 2019 2 minutes ago, HarryBosch said: Tesco don't subsidise Jav's Mini Market, why should United subsidise us? Because if Tesco put JMM out of business, great - more customers for them. If Utd put everyone else of business, who are they gonna play? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HarryBosch Posted May 20, 2019 Share Posted May 20, 2019 3 hours ago, Worcester Owl said: This. For Bosch's benefit, I wasn't "blowing smoke" up anyone's arse, least of all that of the Accrington owner. A strange comment, come to think about it, but let us leave Harold to his anal fixation. The posts were in my view a good summary of the desperate state of professional football in this country, where a small number of clubs can now earn/spend huge sums every year and the rest of the 92 seem to get ever more impoverished. If some people think that's fine and there's nothing to worry about, then I'd say they are misguided. The gulf between the haves and have nots runs much deeper than the question of whether some clubs/owners are living beyond their means, as lookersstandandy points out above. Deeper than what? Back in the 80's Liverpool/United/Spurs/Everton etc... had all the money and many other top flight clubs had shithole grounds and little money. Division 2 clubs were in even worse states, us included. You could argue any gulf has narrowed when you look at the facilities etc of many Championship clubs.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave_Og Posted May 20, 2019 Share Posted May 20, 2019 4 minutes ago, Lee Sinnott said: Gotta agree with that... Me too, apart from the none of them went bump bit which just isn't true. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HarryBosch Posted May 20, 2019 Share Posted May 20, 2019 (edited) 5 minutes ago, oafcmetty said: Because if Tesco put JMM out of business, great - more customers for them. If Utd put everyone else of business, who are they gonna play? But the likes of Tesco regularly put the likes of JMM out of business. United never have yet. I'm not sure if it's just our perception with it being local clubs allegedly on the brink but maybe lower league football has reached a tipping point and market forces (for want of a better description) will just force everyone to adapt & adjust and we'll all be fine... Edited May 20, 2019 by HarryBosch Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HarryBosch Posted May 20, 2019 Share Posted May 20, 2019 1 minute ago, Dave_Og said: Me too, apart from the none of them went bump bit which just isn't true. Who went bump? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave_Og Posted May 20, 2019 Share Posted May 20, 2019 Chester, Halifax, Hereford, Darlington, Newport, Aldershot, Rushden and more. Phoenix clubs may have been formed but very definitely different clubs Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HarryBosch Posted May 20, 2019 Share Posted May 20, 2019 Just now, Dave_Og said: Chester, Halifax, Hereford, Darlington, Newport, Aldershot, Rushden and more. Phoenix clubs may have been formed but very definitely different clubs There's always been a bit of that in football going right back to Leeds City, Bradford PA? Workington? off the top of my head. Doubtful much of it was because of the big clubs getting bigger. Moreso mis management and bad luck surely? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave_Og Posted May 20, 2019 Share Posted May 20, 2019 1 minute ago, HarryBosch said: There's always been a bit of that in football going right back to Leeds City, Bradford PA? Workington? off the top of my head. Doubtful much of it was because of the big clubs getting bigger. Moreso mis management and bad luck surely? Possibly so but there seems to be a general myth that football clubs never actually die - they very much do Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lookersstandandy Posted May 20, 2019 Share Posted May 20, 2019 (edited) 11 hours ago, HarryBosch said: Tesco don't subsidise Jav's Mini Market, why should United subsidise us? Clubs at our level just need to pay players less. There's always been a monopoly at the top and there always will be. Liverpool won everything when I was a kid just like City are doing now. The only difference was smaller clubs didn't publicise or bleat about their financial woes the way they do nowadays... None of them ultimately went bump then, none of us do now... 11 hours ago, Lee Sinnott said: Gotta agree with that... ....the day the top 22 clubs - and we were one of them - voted to leave the football league and set up a separate league able to retain the vast, vast majority of money generated, was the day the gap began to widen. Now, if you agree wholeheartedly with free market economics - I’ve just watched the Thatcher documentary on BBC2 - then I agree with you both, there is nothing wrong with it. The problem is, it just perpetuates the security of the richest clubs at the top table. United, Liverpool, Spurs, City & Chelsea (numerous times) were relegated between the 60s and the 80s..... they will NEVER be relegated again. This filters down - via parachute payments, able to invest in infrastructure, with those clubs that yoyo between the top two Tiers. They acquire the potential customers of smaller clubs/businesses and mop up all the available workforce by employing hundreds of more employees than they could once afford.... so the mini-marts will NEVER be able to compete without enormous injection of funds, or without borrowing that will see them go out of business if their gamble fails. Wimbledon, Northampton, Carlisle, Luton, Oxford, us.... all teams that made it to the promised land on merit before the Premier League began, it won’t happen again. I firmly believe we will see many L1 & L2 clubs go out of business in the years to come, and both leagues will eventually end up as regional leagues again (Div 3 N & S) and probably part time. Is this progress? I’d suggest not. Edited May 21, 2019 by lookersstandandy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lookersstandandy Posted May 20, 2019 Share Posted May 20, 2019 (edited) 11 hours ago, HarryBosch said: Who went bump? Edited May 21, 2019 by lookersstandandy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lookersstandandy Posted May 20, 2019 Share Posted May 20, 2019 1 hour ago, HarryBosch said: ....Back in the 80's Liverpool/United/Spurs/Everton etc... had all the money... ....but they wanted more. To be free to negotiate their own terms and to hell with the 3 leagues beneath them.... leagues they could be relegated to if they recruited poorly, or appointed the wrong manager. I reckon you could manage City to a champions league place. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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