robboman Posted August 13, 2019 Share Posted August 13, 2019 6 minutes ago, UsedtobeWozzer said: I think you’ll find they are unless the accountant in question fancies both the sack and potential criminal charges. He'll probably get sacked either way Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sjk2008 Posted August 13, 2019 Share Posted August 13, 2019 22 minutes ago, UsedtobeWozzer said: I think you’ll find they are unless the accountant in question fancies both the sack and potential criminal charges. I think the potential issue we could have here is not whether the accounts have been audited, but whether upon presentation to Darren they (club accountant & Al) could 'hide' or 'mislead' certain key issues which otherwise any auditor worth his salt would spot in an instant. That's not try and belittle and disrespect Darren in any way, and if he knows his way around a set of accounts like an auditor does and knows what questions should be asked then I apologise, but I think it would have made us all feel a little better had he taken his own expert in with him so they could remove any doubt whatsoever... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UsedtobeWozzer Posted August 13, 2019 Share Posted August 13, 2019 6 minutes ago, sjk2008 said: I think the potential issue we could have here is not whether the accounts have been audited, but whether upon presentation to Darren they (club accountant & Al) could 'hide' or 'mislead' certain key issues which otherwise any auditor worth his salt would spot in an instant. That's not try and belittle and disrespect Darren in any way, and if he knows his way around a set of accounts like an auditor does and knows what questions should be asked then I apologise, but I think it would have made us all feel a little better had he taken his own expert in with him so they could remove any doubt whatsoever... I don’t know his qualification (if any) but obviously the starting point will be ensuring what he’s presented with resembles what we’ve submitted to CH. I’m qualified and have been FD of a number of companies up to £100m t/o but I don’t live in Oldham so I doubt I can help but will if I can. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
New Fan Posted August 13, 2019 Share Posted August 13, 2019 34 minutes ago, robboman said: He'll probably get sacked either way You got any inside info? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sjk2008 Posted August 13, 2019 Share Posted August 13, 2019 7 minutes ago, UsedtobeWozzer said: I don’t know his qualification (if any) but obviously the starting point will be ensuring what he’s presented with resembles what we’ve submitted to CH. I’m qualified and have been FD of a number of companies up to £100m t/o but I don’t live in Oldham so I doubt I can help but will if I can. We've only submitted abridged accounts to CH though I believe. Darren apparently has been given access to the 'full' accounts... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UsedtobeWozzer Posted August 13, 2019 Share Posted August 13, 2019 1 hour ago, sjk2008 said: We've only submitted abridged accounts to CH though I believe. Darren apparently has been given access to the 'full' accounts... Yes I know. It shouldn’t take too much to work out whether they’re consistent though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kowenicki Posted August 13, 2019 Share Posted August 13, 2019 4 hours ago, oafc1955 said: Unaudited accounts mean f*** all!! Especially if they were presented by AL’s accountant. Not worth the paper they’re written on. Utter bullshit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oafc1955 Posted August 13, 2019 Share Posted August 13, 2019 You’ve obviously not been involved in business! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kowenicki Posted August 13, 2019 Share Posted August 13, 2019 3 minutes ago, oafc1955 said: You’ve obviously not been involved in business! I own and run one... have done for 18 years. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oafc1955 Posted August 13, 2019 Share Posted August 13, 2019 Well you know that it’s not bullshit then...don’t talk like a twat!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kowenicki Posted August 13, 2019 Share Posted August 13, 2019 5 minutes ago, oafc1955 said: Well you know that it’s not bullshit then...don’t talk like a twat!! . Clueless. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UsedtobeWozzer Posted August 13, 2019 Share Posted August 13, 2019 1 minute ago, oafc1955 said: Well you know that it’s not bullshit then...don’t talk like a twat!! You realise that we are talking about accounts submitted to CH and the potential implications of them being bullshit don’t you? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kowenicki Posted August 13, 2019 Share Posted August 13, 2019 Just now, UsedtobeWozzer said: You realise that we are talking about accounts submitted to CH and the potential implications of them being bullshit don’t you? ’course he does...he’s an expert. If a chartered accountant (or anyone) has prepared accounts for companies house, it’s fine... they can be just a bunch of made up numbers... no problem... no consequences. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BP1960 Posted August 13, 2019 Share Posted August 13, 2019 1 hour ago, UsedtobeWozzer said: You realise that we are talking about accounts submitted to CH and the potential implications of them being bullshit don’t you? Who checks them independently? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oafc1955 Posted August 13, 2019 Share Posted August 13, 2019 1 hour ago, UsedtobeWozzer said: You realise that we are talking about accounts submitted to CH and the potential implications of them being bullshit don’t you? Who says these accounts submitted to CH are those shown to DArren? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UsedtobeWozzer Posted August 13, 2019 Share Posted August 13, 2019 1 minute ago, oafc1955 said: Who says these accounts submitted to CH are those shown to DArren? Well if he can’t tell he shouldn’t be near them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UsedtobeWozzer Posted August 13, 2019 Share Posted August 13, 2019 11 minutes ago, BP1960 said: Who checks them independently? Nobody. Nevertheless accountants are (strangely enough) bound by professional ethics. If you were getting a lawyer to buy a house for you would you want another one to check the first one has done it right? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sjk2008 Posted August 13, 2019 Share Posted August 13, 2019 2 hours ago, kowenicki said: ’course he does...he’s an expert. If a chartered accountant (or anyone) has prepared accounts for companies house, it’s fine... they can be just a bunch of made up numbers... no problem... no consequences. Nobody has suggested that? The worry is by Darren not taking an expert into the meeting, I certainly wouldn’t put it past Al & the club accountant to try and pull the wool over his eyes if he’s not familiar with what’s what and what questions to ask if they indeed need asking. Not for one minute am I, or anyone else as far as I can see, suggesting the abridged numbers given to CH are made up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sjk2008 Posted August 13, 2019 Share Posted August 13, 2019 1 hour ago, UsedtobeWozzer said: Nobody. Nevertheless accountants are (strangely enough) bound by professional ethics. If you were getting a lawyer to buy a house for you would you want another one to check the first one has done it right? I wouldn’t be against the idea if it was public knowledge that the lawyer in question was working on behalf of someone who’s constantly pushing the line of ethical and moral practices, like Al (pension contributions/late submitting of accounts etc). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BP1960 Posted August 13, 2019 Share Posted August 13, 2019 2 hours ago, UsedtobeWozzer said: Nobody. Nevertheless accountants are (strangely enough) bound by professional ethics. If you were getting a lawyer to buy a house for you would you want another one to check the first one has done it right? What about audits..don't they exist? When I worked on accounts they pounced at anytime and that's what kept everything shipshape. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UsedtobeWozzer Posted August 14, 2019 Share Posted August 14, 2019 2 hours ago, sjk2008 said: I wouldn’t be against the idea if it was public knowledge that the lawyer in question was working on behalf of someone who’s constantly pushing the line of ethical and moral practices, like Al (pension contributions/late submitting of accounts etc). That rather depends on whether you consider those practices are due to pushing ethical practices to the limit or are the result of the company being in considerable financial distress. The number of companies within 20 miles of BP in the same industry in such distress suggest (to me) it may be the latter. Adding layers of cost that add little value and aren’t legally required in those circumstances would seem a little odd. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UsedtobeWozzer Posted August 14, 2019 Share Posted August 14, 2019 2 hours ago, BP1960 said: What about audits..don't they exist? When I worked on accounts they pounced at anytime and that's what kept everything shipshape. The type of audit you are referring to strikes me as being internal audit. In 30+ years of experience from trainee accountant to FD I have yet to be “pounced” on by an external audit function. Their visits are planned months in advance and have a very specific purpose. FWIW given OAFC’s size I would estimate that an external audit (if one were required, as we know it isn’t) would constitute around 10 days work. Given that around 90% of external audit work is carried out by trainees straight out of uni with neither the experience nor technical skills to add much to anything, that would leave about a day of qualified review. On that basis I’ll leave you to decide whether it would be the accounts or the audit opinion that wouldn’t be worth the paper it’s written on. Given the number of corporate failures over the last few years where the performance of the external auditors has been explicitly criticised I think it’s a profession undergoing something of a crisis. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
New Fan Posted August 14, 2019 Share Posted August 14, 2019 3 hours ago, UsedtobeWozzer said: The type of audit you are referring to strikes me as being internal audit. In 30+ years of experience from trainee accountant to FD I have yet to be “pounced” on by an external audit function. Their visits are planned months in advance and have a very specific purpose. FWIW given OAFC’s size I would estimate that an external audit (if one were required, as we know it isn’t) would constitute around 10 days work. Given that around 90% of external audit work is carried out by trainees straight out of uni with neither the experience nor technical skills to add much to anything, that would leave about a day of qualified review. On that basis I’ll leave you to decide whether it would be the accounts or the audit opinion that wouldn’t be worth the paper it’s written on. Given the number of corporate failures over the last few years where the performance of the external auditors has been explicitly criticised I think it’s a profession undergoing something of a crisis. The club’s current accountant, judging by his LinkedIn profile, seems to be a competent one with background in external audit as well as being an accountant. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BP1960 Posted August 14, 2019 Share Posted August 14, 2019 4 hours ago, UsedtobeWozzer said: The type of audit you are referring to strikes me as being internal audit. In 30+ years of experience from trainee accountant to FD I have yet to be “pounced” on by an external audit function. Their visits are planned months in advance and have a very specific purpose. FWIW given OAFC’s size I would estimate that an external audit (if one were required, as we know it isn’t) would constitute around 10 days work. Given that around 90% of external audit work is carried out by trainees straight out of uni with neither the experience nor technical skills to add much to anything, that would leave about a day of qualified review. On that basis I’ll leave you to decide whether it would be the accounts or the audit opinion that wouldn’t be worth the paper it’s written on. Given the number of corporate failures over the last few years where the performance of the external auditors has been explicitly criticised I think it’s a profession undergoing something of a crisis. Its correct ours was an internal audit, but we also had clerks who's job it was to check the work of others. Accounts were submitted on that basis, There were at least annual visits from the companies own auditors, who went through everything with a fine tooth comb. We balanced accounts to the penny, but maybe this doesn't apply to small businesss? Is so I dont know why not. Ps. I'd have thought the EFL sent external auditors out to check on every club, is this not the case? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
leeslover Posted August 14, 2019 Share Posted August 14, 2019 1 hour ago, New Fan said: The club’s current accountant, judging by his LinkedIn profile, seems to be a competent one with background in external audit as well as being an accountant. Thanks, Arthur Andersen Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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