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Bury: Minutes to Midnight


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10 minutes ago, leeslover said:

First you get the money. Then you get the power. Then you get the women.

I remember maybe three years ago. Freezing cold day, non league game. There was an absolutely stunning wo, an on her own watching the game. Turned out she was the partner of one of the players, sadly his name escapes me, he'd played a few games for Arsenal then drifted further and further down... She must have thought she'd cracked it seven years earlier 😂

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15 hours ago, Dave_Og said:

I think we are at cross purposes @singe, @lookersstandandy.  I'm not advocating unfettered capitalism - there's no such thing, anywhere. But I'm also not advocating big subsidies either as I just don't see why that should happen.  Clubs have to be well managed and live within ther resources and until they prove they can do that then throwing more cash at them just so they can buy another striker (we wish!). Regulation can only work up to a point; nobody wants a regulator telling anyone how to run their business.  There must always be the capacity for wll run clubs to prosper and that must necessarily be at the expense of poorly run clubs.

Interesring article here mirroring our discussion, and ironically the PL more or less opposing doing to them something they broadly are doing to the FL, and backing up your assertion (that I was sceptical of) of the threat from European Leagues. 

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20 minutes ago, singe said:

Interesring article here mirroring our discussion, and ironically the PL more or less opposing doing to them something they broadly are doing to the FL, and backing up your assertion (that I was sceptical of) of the threat from European Leagues. 

When the top PL clubs want to sign a top player it's the top clubs overseas that they are competing against. Money is usually the deciding factor. 

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5 minutes ago, Dave_Og said:

When the top PL clubs want to sign a top player it's the top clubs overseas that they are competing against. Money is usually the deciding factor. 

 

Then, we all must accept that the top 6 clubs in the UK will join the other big 12 across Europe who negotiate heir own TV deals, sharing nothing with their own domestic league structure, to accompany their own sponsorship, continue grow their global supporter base, sweep up all the young talent from Europe & beyond, circumvent compensation rules for the recruitment of youth they've missed from domestic competitors, play some of their 'home' games abroad, enter B-teams into their domestic league structure, ensure their is only enough room for 2 fully professional league per domestic country. Greed is good.

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1 minute ago, lookersstandandy said:

 

Then, we all must accept that the top 6 clubs in the UK will join the other big 12 across Europe who negotiate heir own TV deals, sharing nothing with their own domestic league structure, to accompany their own sponsorship, continue grow their global supporter base, sweep up all the young talent from Europe & beyond, circumvent compensation rules for the recruitment of youth they've missed from domestic competitors, play some of their 'home' games abroad, enter B-teams into their domestic league structure, ensure their is only enough room for 2 fully professional league per domestic country. Greed is good.

Hence my comment that I'm surprised that they have been as philanthropic as they have been. They could have pushed much harder than they have done for individual broadcast negotiating rights. 

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Just now, Dave_Og said:

Hence my comment that I'm surprised that they have been as philanthropic as they have been. They could have pushed much harder than they have done for individual broadcast negotiating rights. 

 

....I agree that it's coming.... I'm vociferous and vocal about it because I can see it..... it's disgusting and following Bury/Bolton.... and those that I believe will follow - possibly us - I want/hope to see a groundswell of support for regulation [from Parliament, the FA, & the EFL] to halt it, to protect what we have....

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Just now, lookersstandandy said:

 

....I agree that it's coming.... I'm vociferous and vocal about it because I can see it..... it's disgusting and following Bury/Bolton.... and those that I believe will follow - possibly us - I want/hope to see a groundswell of support for regulation [from Parliament, the FA, & the EFL] to halt it, to protect what we have....

Who'll pay for the regulation... 

Expensive business that most certainly will not guarantee a no failure situation, and nor should it. 

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Just now, Dave_Og said:

Who'll pay for the regulation... 

Expensive business that most certainly will not guarantee a no failure situation, and nor should it. 

 

.....I'm not pining for no-failure.... but I want to avoid the death by asphyxiation that will be thrust upon many with self regulation. I'm all for political intervention to pressure for better regulation, paid for by the vast amount of money football generates.

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20 hours ago, Dave_Og said:

Their competition now is La Liga, Serie A etc. They're not going to agree to anything that disadvantages them there. To be honest I'm surprised they are as philanthropic as they are including, in particular, still having three up three down. I'd have expected the exit to have been narrowed before now. 

 

Huddersfield earned more money in TV rights than Juventus & Bayern Munich...... I mean, c'mon.... I'm not having it that a) a regulator couldn't be afforded and b) the money couldn't be shared amongst the 4 professional divisions more fairly.

 

RF-SPORT-TV-EARNINGS-v2-1.jpg?w=620

 

https://www.thesun.co.uk/sport/football/9876183/bayern-juventus-huddersfield-tv-deal-premier-league/

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9 minutes ago, lookersstandandy said:

 

 

Huddersfield earned more money in TV rights than Juventus & Bayern Munich...... I mean, c'mon.... I'm not having it that a) a regulator couldn't be afforded and b) the money couldn't be shared amongst the 4 professional divisions more fairly.

 

RF-SPORT-TV-EARNINGS-v2-1.jpg?w=620

 

https://www.thesun.co.uk/sport/football/9876183/bayern-juventus-huddersfield-tv-deal-premier-league/

 

 

more likely...

 

https://www.forbes.com/sites/manuelveth/2019/05/13/tv-distribution-bundesliga-needs-to-learn-from-english-premier-league/#5b0facb23c63

 

 

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8 minutes ago, kowenicki said:

 

....but you've credibly argued that part of the reason Bolton are in the mess they are, is because they spent beyond their means to feast at the top table. Could one not suppose that with a fairer distribution of wealth, such behaviour would be less likely to occur?

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1 minute ago, lookersstandandy said:

 

....but you've credibly argued that part of the reason Bolton are in the mess they are, is because they spent beyond their means to feast at the top table. Could one not suppose that with a fairer distribution of wealth, such behaviour would be less likely to occur?

 

Yes, possibly.  That doesn't mean I think it will happen.... it won't, or if it does it will be a relatively tiny concession.

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4 minutes ago, kowenicki said:

 

Yes, possibly.  That doesn't mean I think it will happen.... it won't, or if it does it will be a relatively tiny concession.

 

I've never said I think it will happen, nor any concession would be material..... but - if parliament wasn't in such an enormous mess - one might hope that Bury/Bolton's predicaments & as I believe, the procession of others that will follow, could be the perfect catalyst for the role of the national sport & community based clubs in society to be debated..... & the Premier League, FA and EFL threatened with regulation to curb the immoral and disgusting excesses we already see / expect to get worse if left unregulated......

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11 minutes ago, lookersstandandy said:

 

I've never said I think it will happen, nor any concession would be material..... but - if parliament wasn't in such an enormous mess - one might hope that Bury/Bolton's predicaments & as I believe, the procession of others that will follow, could be the perfect catalyst for the role of the national sport & community based clubs in society to be debated..... & the Premier League, FA and EFL threatened with regulation to curb the immoral and disgusting excesses we already see / expect to get worse if left unregulated......

 

How far are you suggesting we go here?

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2 minutes ago, kowenicki said:

 

How far are you suggesting we go here?

 

....if parliament want to take it as far as grassroots, then great..... but at the very least the 4 professional league structure, given what's recently happened to 2 x 100+ year old institutions. There has to be a debate over whether it's a valued societal asset or otherwise. No other sport in the UK has anywhere near the same attendance/participation figures. Is that good for people's wellbeing? The alternative is less people attending live sport to stay at home and watch the big 6 dominate telly.

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4 minutes ago, lookersstandandy said:

 

....if parliament want to take it as far as grassroots, then great..... but at the very least the 4 professional league structure, given what's recently happened to 2 x 100+ year old institutions. There has to be a debate over whether it's a valued societal asset or otherwise. No other sport in the UK has anywhere near the same attendance/participation figures. Is that good for people's wellbeing? The alternative is less people attending live sport to stay at home and watch the big 6 dominate telly.

 

50 +1 as a model?

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Just now, lookersstandandy said:

 

You wouldn't get any argument from me if we adopted the German model in this instance. I dare say many supporters of Manure [if it removed the Glazers], Coventry, Charlton, Blackpool..... [shall I go on].... would agree.....

 

Probably not, its a good model.  But we are where we are and the funding of such a model is going to be a tad problematic and expensive... some of these are PLC's.  

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1 minute ago, kowenicki said:

 

Probably not, its a good model.  But we are where we are and the funding of such a model is going to be a tad problematic and expensive... some of these are PLC's.  

 

 I know. I agree. I just think now would be a good/ideal time for the debate to be had.... and at the very least, it might halt the abhorrent & immoral greedy excess of the few......

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33 minutes ago, lookersstandandy said:

No other sport in the UK has anywhere near the same attendance/participation figures. Is that good for people's wellbeing? The alternative is less people attending live sport to stay at home and watch the big 6 dominate telly.

Attendences in the top 4 levels are at a high point going back decades though, possibly the lower clubs benefitting from the high profile the Premiership gives to the game? The TV money has come on top of that, especially the overseas sales. Your stereotypical fan in Singapore or New York really isn't paying to help us sign the odd Wheater instead of a Stott. Some of your ideas could do some good (I don't see what loss it would be to Man City to only have 40 adults on the books) but I'm not seeing them part with the cash that people pay for their product.

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24 minutes ago, leeslover said:

Attendences in the top 4 levels are at a high point going back decades though, possibly the lower clubs benefitting from the high profile the Premiership gives to the game? The TV money has come on top of that, especially the overseas sales. Your stereotypical fan in Singapore or New York really isn't paying to help us sign the odd Wheater instead of a Stott. Some of your ideas could do some good (I don't see what loss it would be to Man City to only have 40 adults on the books) but I'm not seeing them part with the cash that people pay for their product.

 

How sad to reduce football to a mere product.

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