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The Trust - Focus on 'Al in' or 'Al out'?


What should 'The Trust' focus on?  

75 members have voted

  1. 1. How would you like to see 'The Trust' approach the situation as of right now?

    • Work with Al and try to improve the relationship between Al & the Fans
      14
    • Work on removing Al and seeking potential new owners?
      61


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7 minutes ago, OAFC1984 said:

Pointless keeping this going really - not seen any of the Trusts mouthpieces for weeks

 

 I support the Trust and happy to give my own view but for the avoidance of doubt, I am not a ‘mouthpiece’ for them. 

Just going to reply to sjk2008 

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3 minutes ago, tGWB said:

 

 I support the Trust and happy to give my own view but for the avoidance of doubt, I am not a ‘mouthpiece’ for them. 

Just going to reply to sjk2008 

 

Was aimed more at the Trust board members who post on here (used to) apologies 

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57 minutes ago, sjk2008 said:

Well IMO one of the first things The Trust should be doing is finding prospective buyers. It’s not easy, obviously, but half a dozen made attempts to buy Bury a week before they were struck off so they’re the first lot that I’d be having a discussion with to find out what their merits as an organisation/collective are, why they are interested in owning a football club.

Then you’d introduce them to the FLG and see if any common ground can be found there.

Al won’t be looking to sell, but he can’t possibly be making any real money here so if a few interested parties came to him with an offer then I think he’d have to consider it,

 

sjk2008

Just a view

If the Trust membership was significantly higher and considered to represent the majority of our supporters they could possibly be approached by a party interested in buying the club. As for the Trust actively canvassing for a new owner, I cant see it as lets be frank, there simply isn’t enough of them to do so.

 

Any potential new owner/s should, you would think, want control of the whole club  so absolutely no point in even starting a dialogue with the FLG as their declared primary intentions are to raise funds to buy Boundary Park. 

 

AL will only leave the club if either:

1. he is made an offer he simply cant refuse, which would mean a new owner/s paying well over a sensible commercial rate and why would anyone do that. 

2.  Serious cash flow issues which materially impact his ability to continue to pay the clubs bills (eg HMRC) resulting in the club going bankrupt. 

 

 

 

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2 hours ago, tGWB said:

 

sjk2008

Just a view

If the Trust membership was significantly higher and considered to represent the majority of our supporters they could possibly be approached by a party interested in buying the club. As for the Trust actively canvassing for a new owner, I cant see it as lets be frank, there simply isn’t enough of them to do so.

 

Any potential new owner/s should, you would think, want control of the whole club  so absolutely no point in even starting a dialogue with the FLG as their declared primary intentions are to raise funds to buy Boundary Park. 

 

AL will only leave the club if either:

1. he is made an offer he simply cant refuse, which would mean a new owner/s paying well over a sensible commercial rate and why would anyone do that. 

2.  Serious cash flow issues which materially impact his ability to continue to pay the clubs bills (eg HMRC) resulting in the club going bankrupt. 

 

 

 

How much do you think Al would want though? He only owns the team as such. He’s got no real assets, is no doubt losing money on a monthly basis, and unless a combination of his ridiculous scattergun approach to transfers suddenly producing gems as footballers and Mo suddenly turning into Pep, we aren’t getting out of this basement division via the high route.

 

And as for the Trust, I signed up last April before recent requesting it to be cancelled. That fans forum at the OEC we had made clear that we wanted to protest for the Sky game, but the Trust completely ended changed the goalposts shortly after and have ever since done nothing to comfort the fans. Instead it feels they’re just ensuring they stay on Al’s good side. 

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25 minutes ago, sjk2008 said:

How much do you think Al would want though? He only owns the team as such. He’s got no real assets, is no doubt losing money on a monthly basis, and unless a combination of his ridiculous scattergun approach to transfers suddenly producing gems as footballers and Mo suddenly turning into Pep, we aren’t getting out of this basement division via the high route.

 

And as for the Trust, I signed up last April before recent requesting it to be cancelled. That fans forum at the OEC we had made clear that we wanted to protest for the Sky game, but the Trust completely ended changed the goalposts shortly after and have ever since done nothing to comfort the fans. Instead it feels they’re just ensuring they stay on Al’s good side. 

 

I haven’t seen the price AL paid for Corneys 97% shareholding in the club so whatever £figure that was he’ll want that covering and likely his losses to date plus some £s for goodwill.  Thats if someone knocks on his door. 

If he’s struggling cash flow wise and the club is in danger of going under, you would think he would take a lot less. Would be surprising someone from the middle east wanting a ‘failed business’ tag hanging over his head. Saying that even distressed sellers dont always see sense. 

We’ve exchanged on the Trust a few times but I simply cant see past them needing access to the club whilst building relationships with fellow trusts and the Football Supporters Association to build their knowledge of potential legal options should the need arise. 

The Trust will need access to funds if the club finances deteriorate further and the £10 membership from 300-350 members wont be enough. 

Our supporters are missing a goal opportunity not joining and to be brutally honest I think the Trust is definitely missing an open goal by not significantly expanding its volunteer numbers and skills base. 

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24 minutes ago, tGWB said:

 

I haven’t seen the price AL paid for Corneys 97% shareholding in the club so whatever £figure that was he’ll want that covering and likely his losses to date plus some £s for goodwill.  Thats if someone knocks on his door. 

If he’s struggling cash flow wise and the club is in danger of going under, you would think he would take a lot less. Would be surprising someone from the middle east wanting a ‘failed business’ tag hanging over his head. Saying that even distressed sellers dont always see sense. 

We’ve exchanged on the Trust a few times but I simply cant see past them needing access to the club whilst building relationships with fellow trusts and the Football Supporters Association to build their knowledge of potential legal options should the need arise. 

The Trust will need access to funds if the club finances deteriorate further and the £10 membership from 300-350 members wont be enough. 

Our supporters are missing a goal opportunity not joining and to be brutally honest I think the Trust is definitely missing an open goal by not significantly expanding its volunteer numbers and skills base. 

He paid £1 for the club, and I'd be surprised if he got much more than that for it. Nobody is going to value it any higher because he spunked a couple of million on Queensy, Placide and Moimbe's wages. I don't understand why people say, "he'll want back what he paid," it's his problem he pays too much for things that are worth fuck all.

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24 minutes ago, leeslover said:

He paid £1 for the club, and I'd be surprised if he got much more than that for it. Nobody is going to value it any higher because he spunked a couple of million on Queensy, Placide and Moimbe's wages. I don't understand why people say, "he'll want back what he paid," it's his problem he pays too much for things that are worth fuck all.

 

So you seriously think Corney only got £1 for his 97% shareholding to walk away from the club after years of supposedly searching for a buyer whilst he was losing money on a monthly basis ? 

I have not seen that published anywhere. 

Really 🤔

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14 minutes ago, tGWB said:

 

So you seriously think Corney only got £1 for his 97% shareholding to walk away from the club after years of supposedly searching for a buyer whilst he was losing money on a monthly basis ? 

I have not seen that published anywhere. 

Really 🤔

That's what was in the bill of sale. Fairly standard for a loss making business with no assets.

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1 hour ago, tGWB said:

 

So you seriously think Corney only got £1 for his 97% shareholding to walk away from the club after years of supposedly searching for a buyer whilst he was losing money on a monthly basis ? 

I have not seen that published anywhere. 

Really 🤔

LL is right, the Club sold for £1.

 

Corney and Al agreed another price for the shares. I think £3 million was quoted in the Newspaper on the day we were relegated in 2017.

 

However, Corney had hocked his shares previously, (so to speak) to BB. BB registered this as the current debenture on the Club at  Companies house.

 

I believe Al agreed to pay BB for the shares to be released and I will presume when this is done, this will then cancel the debenture. 

 

I believe the Necarcru loan was also to be cleared.

 

I think Trust did publish the paying off. of the debentures as part of the Q and A at the time....found it. Point 5

 

https://trustoldham.co.uk/update-fans-investment/

 

 

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35 minutes ago, underdog said:

LL is right, the Club sold for £1.

 

Corney and Al agreed another price for the shares. I think £3 million was quoted in the Newspaper on the day we were relegated in 2017.

 

However, Corney had hocked his shares previously, (so to speak) to BB. BB registered this as the current debenture on the Club at  Companies house.

 

I believe Al agreed to pay BB for the shares to be released and I will presume when this is done, this will then cancel the debenture. 

 

I believe the Necarcru loan was also to be cleared.

 

I think Trust did publish the paying off. of the debentures as part of the Q and A at the time....found it. Point 5

 

https://trustoldham.co.uk/update-fans-investment/

 

 

 

The Necarcu loan still remains outstanding on Companies House and as such what is the current situation on this? 

 

The £1 sale, albeit "happens a lot" is very worrying to the average supporter. I was not aware of this but concerns me regardless of the statement you made regarding £3m agreed now with Brassbank.

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3 minutes ago, unsworthlatic said:

 

The Necarcu loan still remains outstanding on Companies House and as such what is the current situation on this? 

 

The £1 sale, albeit "happens a lot" is very worrying to the average supporter. I was not aware of this but concerns me regardless of the statement you made regarding £3m agreed now with Brassbank.

My memory is that Corney said he'd got £3 million for the club, if he did it was via some backhanded arrangement. It was said in a shitstirring article after Lemmy fucked him off from the Board, I suspect it was a lie. £1 is a lot of money for a loss making business with no assets.

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2 minutes ago, unsworthlatic said:

 

The Necarcu loan still remains outstanding on Companies House and as such what is the current situation on this? 

 

The £1 sale, albeit "happens a lot" is very worrying to the average supporter. I was not aware of this but concerns me regardless of the statement you made regarding £3m agreed now with Brassbank.

There are 3 targets the Trust has set ourselves this month. Finances is one of them and the two debentures are on the list BB and Necarcru.

 

https://trustoldham.co.uk/august-review-2/

 

Hence, the Club statement about them being "disappointed with the Trust over the review of the accounts 2017.18

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5 hours ago, underdog said:

LL is right, the Club sold for £1.

 

Corney and Al agreed another price for the shares. I think £3 million was quoted in the Newspaper on the day we were relegated in 2017.

 

 

https://trustoldham.co.uk/update-fans-investment/

 

 

 

Thanks underdog

Accepting your point leeslover but in short, AL paid c£3m 

He’s not going to just walk away is he 

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20 minutes ago, tGWB said:

 

Thanks underdog

Accepting your point leeslover but in short, AL paid c£3m 

He’s not going to just walk away is he 

give or take the historic/legacy stuff.  I think he is at least a good £5 million in now.

 

I am sure he is quoting that  he is paying about £200k a month on bills/wages as well

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This is what gets me about AL. He has invested. Considerably more than shysters like Dale at Bury. It’s just a shame he’s blown it on over inflated wages for sub standard players. I wonder where his money would have taken us if he would listen a bit more. 

 

I honestly think if he didn’t do this and left the manger to it, a lot of the off field wouldn’t be as prevalent.  

 

 

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2 hours ago, tGWB said:

 

Thanks underdog

Accepting your point leeslover but in short, AL paid c£3m 

He’s not going to just walk away is he 

No, he paid £1. He may well be £3 million down, but the thing he owns is still financially worth nothing. If what he says is true, in a couple of years he'll own something worth nothing and be £5 million down. Perhaps he'll then want £5 million for it but he'll need to find a bigger idiot than himself to pay it, so he'd better start looking now 

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12 hours ago, underdog said:

give or take the historic/legacy stuff.  I think he is at least a good £5 million in now.

 

I am sure he is quoting that  he is paying about £200k a month on bills/wages as well

 

They say if you'd made millions you can do it again.

Some millionaires on here might endorse that?

 

 

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On 9/13/2019 at 1:22 AM, tGWB said:

 

Not directed just at you this wiseowl but all the posts on this thread 

 

Serious question and not intended to offend but:

Do any of you have any ideas how to remove the owner of a Ltd Company as in Oldham Athletic 2004 Ltd ? 

And within the realms of possibility preferably 

 

Honestly, no offence taken at all tGWB - I fully appreciate the point.

 

However, an organisation that is supposed to represent fans is never going to get much appreciation (or additional membership) when its core strategy is the complete opposite of what the majority of fans want it to be!

 

When I speak to fans, the majority see The Trust's existence as pretty pointless.

 

IF there was a common goal (agreed with the fans) then the Trust should also be far more visible. They should be outside the turnstiles (for example) explaining what they do and signing up new members, or at least giving them a leaflet explaining what they do and how to join. They just seem "invisible".

 

Yes I know they have meetings and people are invited etc. but they should be far more active amongst the fanbase on matchdays etc. They are supposed to be the fans' representatives - so please get in amongst the fans.

 

(Caveat - only when they have a strategy compatible with the majority of fans, of course. Presently, they would largely be ignored or ridiculed if what fans say to me about them is representative)

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12 hours ago, League one forever said:

This is what gets me about AL. He has invested. Considerably more than shysters like Dale at Bury. It’s just a shame he’s blown it on over inflated wages for sub standard players. I wonder where his money would have taken us if he would listen a bit more. 

 

I honestly think if he didn’t do this and left the manger to it, a lot of the off field wouldn’t be as prevalent.  

 

 

 

If he has invested the tune of £5 million then he’s only to blame for his conduct with players, managers and staff that has completely destroyed the club that he purchased.  There is no inherent value.  If he has cleared debts then well done but that sits the club value at £0 - there’s no major asset value in the squad, which is his only asset to sell apart from the clubs membership to the EFL.

 

Every decision he’s since made has regressed, dismantled, disrupted any progress on or off the pitch.

 

Wasting the playing budget on signing a mass of inferior players that will never improve the team, let along generate a return for him or the club, is sheer incompetence.  One that cannot be addressed until their contracts expire or are paid off.  Notable exceptions are Wheater and Eagles who have influence on play but not to the degree of changing score lines or leading the club up the table - both have no major resale value.

 

If he truly believes he’s here long term and wants to change fans minds and increase attendances then it’s simple -

 

1. Immediately stop any interference in recruitment, selection and tactics

2. Sack you brother Mo because his recruitment policy has been 100% a failure

3. Allow Banide to manage, not coach and try and find him a decent freebie striker outside of transfer windows 

4. Allow Banide free reign on transfers in January - incoming and outgoing - plus find him funds to strengthen

5. If you’re committed to learning long-term investment in permanent signings that will increase in value then scour the domestic leagues like Peterborough did or use your connections with Wigan etc to sign decent loans with view to permanently signing with a sell-on fee.  That way we both prosper.

6. Above is a priority and only way fans will return.  Once this sorted, feel free to sort the mess with the FLG etc.  Who owns the OEC and where the money goes is a distant second in relation to success on the pitch.

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1 hour ago, Midsblue said:

 

If he has invested the tune of £5 million then he’s only to blame for his conduct with players, managers and staff that has completely destroyed the club that he purchased.  There is no inherent value.  If he has cleared debts then well done but that sits the club value at £0 - there’s no major asset value in the squad, which is his only asset to sell apart from the clubs membership to the EFL.

 

Every decision he’s since made has regressed, dismantled, disrupted any progress on or off the pitch.

 

Wasting the playing budget on signing a mass of inferior players that will never improve the team, let along generate a return for him or the club, is sheer incompetence.  One that cannot be addressed until their contracts expire or are paid off.  Notable exceptions are Wheater and Eagles who have influence on play but not to the degree of changing score lines or leading the club up the table - both have no major resale value.

 

If he truly believes he’s here long term and wants to change fans minds and increase attendances then it’s simple -

 

1. Immediately stop any interference in recruitment, selection and tactics

2. Sack you brother Mo because his recruitment policy has been 100% a failure

3. Allow Banide to manage, not coach and try and find him a decent freebie striker outside of transfer windows 

4. Allow Banide free reign on transfers in January - incoming and outgoing - plus find him funds to strengthen

5. If you’re committed to learning long-term investment in permanent signings that will increase in value then scour the domestic leagues like Peterborough did or use your connections with Wigan etc to sign decent loans with view to permanently signing with a sell-on fee.  That way we both prosper.

6. Above is a priority and only way fans will return.  Once this sorted, feel free to sort the mess with the FLG etc.  Who owns the OEC and where the money goes is a distant second in relation to success on the pitch.

Agreed. 

 

Except he won’t do any of the above. So the nightmare will only continue to worsen. 

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On ‎9‎/‎14‎/‎2019 at 10:16 AM, wiseowl said:

Honestly, no offence taken at all tGWB - I fully appreciate the point.

 

However, an organisation that is supposed to represent fans is never going to get much appreciation (or additional membership) when its core strategy is the complete opposite of what the majority of fans want it to be!

 

When I speak to fans, the majority see The Trust's existence as pretty pointless.

 

IF there was a common goal (agreed with the fans) then the Trust should also be far more visible. They should be outside the turnstiles (for example) explaining what they do and signing up new members, or at least giving them a leaflet explaining what they do and how to join. They just seem "invisible".

 

Yes I know they have meetings and people are invited etc. but they should be far more active amongst the fanbase on matchdays etc. They are supposed to be the fans' representatives - so please get in amongst the fans.

 

(Caveat - only when they have a strategy compatible with the majority of fans, of course. Presently, they would largely be ignored or ridiculed if what fans say to me about them is representative)

 

Been on holiday wiseowl hence the late response

 

Agree entirely with your point about the Trust seeming almost 'invisible' and yes they most certainly should advertise/promote themselves better. I do think though that some of the comments about them on social media has understandably diluted any enthusiasm they may have had to raise their profile outside the ground on match days. I have read some shocking stuff to be frank. 

 

Having thought about the relatively poor numbers of supporters willing to join the Trust, I personally think its primarily down to two reasons:

  • many supporters are really frustrated with the way the club is currently being managed and want to see a more 'action/protest' based activity whereas the Trust has adopted a more professional approach by gaining access to board meetings and viewing the clubs finances whilst building relationships with like minded organisations such as  the Football Supporters Association and other club trusts. I support this approach the Trust has adopted
  • there are supporters who feel maybe that their fingers have been burnt previously by supporting the Trust and feel they have been let down. The legacy issue of Barry Owen I think is a particular sticking point with him previously being a Trust Director, taking the Trust representative seat on the board, then taking a club directorship under the Corney regime. Now recently being appointed a Director under the AL regime. Additionally, some perceived historical Trust 'financial baggage' issues maybe.

My own view is that the Trust is our supporters best option to look after the future of our club and no matter how unpalatable it is too many, trying to build better communications with any owner of our club, the FSA and other club trusts is the right approach.

 

Just wish more supporters would join and give them a fighting chance

 

:chubb:

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On 9/14/2019 at 10:16 AM, wiseowl said:

When I speak to fans, the majority see The Trust's existence as pretty pointless.

 

IF there was a common goal (agreed with the fans) then the Trust should also be far more visible. They should be outside the turnstiles (for example) explaining what they do and signing up new members, or at least giving them a leaflet explaining what they do and how to join. They just seem "invisible".

 

I was inside and outside both Chaddy end and RRE  during the membership drive in March 2017.Also at half time in the RRE during 2017 as its a stand I am in.

 

2018/19. Trust were outside the gym and laticzone meeting with members who had arranged to pick up cards.  My incident with a fellow fan has not put me off doing this again, but it is finding the resources to do it. We also one to ones arranged at other times and away matches.

 

We held three supporter events last season and we thank those who attended, but we were not maxed out in any capacity.

 

We ask for help every year around about the AGM time and with shaping/adapting the Trust. TGWB has mentioned this on a previous thread, and the FSA have backed this up that we need to engage with supporters better. However, We are short on at least 2 people, one we hope to be filled soon which is a company secretary. We can only do so much with limited resources and time.

 

It is not easy. The Trust are ball juggling on 3 fronts:

1) Legal entitlement with the Club

2) ACV obligations via the landlord

3) ACV obligations via the FLG

 

My thoughts are focus groups of like minded fans who have a interest maybe in a set topic, rather than feeling they have to be a Trust director or Co-optee to do it.

 

Stuff like, fan funded initiatives, building/networking with business, ACV re application, EFL required Club/supporter engagement a memorandum as per the FSA guidelines, fun stuff as well....relaunching latics4life for future generations....tons of stuff. Just my ideas, but again it would be finding someone who wanted to and able to organise stuff like this.

 

However we have to be realistic and prioritise with what we have and what we can manage and hope we do not drop one of those 3 balls along the way.

 

 

 

 

 

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