Does the chairman interfere with team selection?

[disjointed]

1 hour ago, mcfluff1985 said:

A lot of people share the blame for relegation. The owner and Wellens are in there sharing their portion.

 

Wellens knew what he was getting into. He was here under Shez. 

He was also getting himself on the management ladder. And it worked. 

[nzlatic]

1 hour ago, Londonboy said:

 

So who from the squad we had available, would you have changed in your tram selection over the last 8 games that season? Genuine question.

 

What I'm saying is AL is a twat, he has clearly influenced team selection  for the worse in the recent past, and has over the same period created a toxic atmosphere at the club. Its clear from my previous posts I'm not his biggest fan of his!

 

However at the end of the 2017/18 season I cant see how he interfered in team selection, with the exception of banning Fane, as we fielded our best side available IMO?

I've no idea who or what else I would have done differently.  I'm not a football manager and I wasn't watching them in training. 

 

Wellens said "It’s difficult when you wake up on a Saturday morning and you do not know who’s available and who can’t play"

and

"I had afternoon meetings with the chairman, discussions on who to play and not to play and certain players who had been signed and certain agreements with their parent club where they had to play."

 

Whether you would have changed anything or not doesn't really matter - there's your interference.  Also, Wild has said there was interference.  Scholes said don't interfere or I'm off, AL interfered and he left.  He/they have been doing it from the very start.  And now look where we are.

[yarddog73]

1 hour ago, Londonboy said:

 

Jesus - a new one on me....

I had heard the same myself but you'd like to think them players had enough about them to not get involved in that, saying that there were some shocking performances in that last eight games so who knows.

[League one forever]

4 hours ago, Dave_Og said:

You try keeping your morale and motivation up when you are being completely undermined. 

Lowe did ok with Bury. . 

[unsworthlatic]

9 minutes ago, League one forever said:

Lowe did ok with Bury. . 

 

Knowing the analyst and him being my best mate who has followed him to Plymouth Argyle, I can assure you that it wasn't at any point easy.

 

Players on occasion didn't train etc and were promised that promotion bonuses would be paid to them regardless of the outcome. They wanted to get promoted for their own personal pride, their own gain, their own CV and most importantly for supporters. 

 

They had a group that was together in everything they did. A close-knit group which is something we hadn't. No involvement from above (literally) whereas we did. They were at the top and playing great football, we were in a dog fight towards the bottom.

[League one forever]

4 minutes ago, unsworthlatic said:

 

Knowing the analyst and him being my best mate who has followed him to Plymouth Argyle, I can assure you that it wasn't at any point easy.

 

Players on occasion didn't train etc and were promised that promotion bonuses would be paid to them regardless of the outcome. They wanted to get promoted for their own personal pride, their own gain, their own CV and most importantly for supporters. 

 

They had a group that was together in everything they did. A close-knit group which is something we hadn't. No involvement from above (literally) whereas we did. They were at the top and playing great football, we were in a dog fight towards the bottom.

Your making my point for me. 

 

Lowe worked under even greater pressure than Wellens, (nobody being paid for months on end is far harder to deal with then being told to play certain players.) and he still took them up. 

 

 

[nzlatic]

3 minutes ago, League one forever said:

Your making my point for me. 

 

Lowe worked under even greater pressure than Wellens, (nobody being paid for months on end is far harder to deal with then being told to play certain players.) and he still took them up. 

 

 

There were financial issues where the players weren't getting paid, but Lowe galvanised them, kept them focussed and got promotion. Which is very much to his credit.  But the key point here is... he wasn't told who to play and where by the chairman.  

[League one forever]

8 minutes ago, nzlatic said:

There were financial issues where the players weren't getting paid, but Lowe galvanised them, kept them focussed and got promotion. Which is very much to his credit.  But the key point here is... he wasn't told who to play and where by the chairman.  

 

You honestly think being told who to play, is anywhere near as tough as not being paid? 

 

Lowe is asking lads week in week out to put there bodies on line, to risking their career and future employment all while not being paid. An they are running through brick walls for him. That is superb man management of the highest order.

 

Wellens meanwhile knew what he was walking into, then can’t galvanise himself or the team because he can’t pick who he wants. 

 

One found strength in unexpected adversity. 

 

The other wilted in expected adversity. 

 

 

 

[nzlatic]

14 minutes ago, League one forever said:

 

You honestly think being told who to play, is anywhere near as tough as not being paid? 

 

Lowe is asking lads week in week out to put there bodies on line, to risking their career and future employment all while not being paid. An they are running through brick walls for him. That is superb man management of the highest order.

 

Wellens meanwhile knew what he was walking into, then can’t galvanise himself or the team because he can’t pick who he wants. 

 

One found strength in unexpected adversity. 

 

The other wilted in expected adversity. 

 

 

 

I don’t think you can compare the two situations.

 

Especially not to conclude that one is therefore better than the other. 

[latics22]

3 hours ago, nzlatic said:

I've no idea who or what else I would have done differently.  I'm not a football manager and I wasn't watching them in training. 

 

Wellens said "It’s difficult when you wake up on a Saturday morning and you do not know who’s available and who can’t play"

and

"I had afternoon meetings with the chairman, discussions on who to play and not to play and certain players who had been signed and certain agreements with their parent club where they had to play."

 

Whether you would have changed anything or not doesn't really matter - there's your interference.  Also, Wild has said there was interference.  Scholes said don't interfere or I'm off, AL interfered and he left.  He/they have been doing it from the very start.  And now look where we are.

Many players are signed on the basis they have to play it's hardly new? He is a whinge bag and will do the same at swindon when things dont go his way. I cant believe people are defending wellens who achieved 0 and got us relegated. Yet stick the knife in in shez at every opportunity.

[laticsmarra]

7 minutes ago, latics22 said:

Many players are signed on the basis they have to play it's hardly new? He is a whinge bag and will do the same at swindon when things dont go his way. I cant believe people are defending wellens who achieved 0 and got us relegated. Yet stick the knife in in shez at every opportunity.

I defend Wellens and support what Shez did. The choice is not mutually exclusive

[disjointed]

7 minutes ago, latics22 said:

Many players are signed on the basis they have to play it's hardly new? He is a whinge bag and will do the same at swindon when things dont go his way. I cant believe people are defending wellens who achieved 0 and got us relegated. Yet stick the knife in in shez at every opportunity.

Who is having a pop at Shez? 99% of Latics fans realise what a fantastic job he has done for us in the past. 

[latics22]

48 minutes ago, disjointed said:

Who is having a pop at Shez? 99% of Latics fans realise what a fantastic job he has done for us in the past. 

Many on here love a pop at shez

[disjointed]

7 minutes ago, latics22 said:

Many on here love a pop at shez

Nah that's bollocks, maybe the odd one or two but most respect what he did for us as a player and a manager. 

[nzlatic]

1 hour ago, latics22 said:

Many players are signed on the basis they have to play it's hardly new? He is a whinge bag and will do the same at swindon when things dont go his way. I cant believe people are defending wellens who achieved 0 and got us relegated. Yet stick the knife in in shez at every opportunity.

I don’t think I’ve ever stuck the knife in to shez. Love the man.

[mcfluff1985]

1 hour ago, latics22 said:

Many on here love a pop at shez

Or is it Shez loves the pop. Allegedly

[JoeP]

17 hours ago, Londonboy said:

 

So who from the squad we had available, would you have changed in your tram selection over the last 8 games that season? Genuine question.

 

What I'm saying is AL is a twat, he has clearly influenced team selection  for the worse in the recent past, and has over the same period created a toxic atmosphere at the club. Its clear from my previous posts I'm not his biggest fan of his!

 

However at the end of the 2017/18 season I cant see how he interfered in team selection, with the exception of banning Fane, as we fielded our best side available IMO?

 

If AL hadn't imposed loads of his hopeless clients on the manager, on inflated wages, we might have had a squad who were much better, if the manager had been allowed to bring in his own players.

 

Having players forced on the manager, means the formation is forced on the manager.  I remember we were playing Doyle up front on his own in the run-in, which just didn't work and I don't believe that is what Wellens wanted either.

 

Throw in the fact there was probably changing-room fracture due to the inflated wages some players were on, while contributing little, and I'm surprised Wellens did as well as he did!

[JohnnyPimp]

27 minutes ago, JoeP said:

Throw in the fact there was probably changing-room fracture due to the inflated wages some players were on, while contributing little, and I'm surprised Wellens did as well as he did!

 

The lack of fight from the team in the second half at Northampton did it for me.

 

I still cannot understand why Wellens didn’t instruct Placide to go up for corners towards the end.

[JoeP]

10 minutes ago, JohnnyPimp said:

 

The lack of fight from the team in the second half at Northampton did it for me.

 

All stemmed from the influences the Lemsagams had on the team, in my opinion.... 

[boundaryblue80]

23 hours ago, Careca9 said:

 

agree he started really well and coul dhave a good future. something drastic must have happened as we went from looking good to being a total mess. even if there was problems with moral/issues i dont think he did too well galvanising everyone to produce until the end of the season. some of his formations in the latter games were horrific and contributed to our relegation. he's done well to get back in after that

 

Yeah, the fucking idiot sent Peter Clarke off to Bury. We'd have coasted to safety but for that decision alone. I'm surprised he's not tried to blame AL for that as well 

[yarddog73]

15 minutes ago, boundaryblue80 said:

 

Yeah, the fucking idiot sent Peter Clarke off to Bury. We'd have coasted to safety but for that decision alone. I'm surprised he's not tried to blame AL for that as well 

No that was Scholes fault

[boundaryblue80]

23 hours ago, Londonboy said:

He just failed dismally to motivate the team,  and was tactically inept and naive. There is little evidence in the run in that AL actually interfered in team selection and I challenge anyone to argue otherwise.

 

Things are very different today and we need to get the pedantic twat out as soon as possible. However lets not paint Wellens as this great coach and blame going down on the clown 2 years ago. He actually gave us every chance of staying up with his investment in who he brought in after the nightmare start under Shez.

 

 

As for the Wellens article...another re-hash from Mr Axe-To-Grind. It's old news. We know there was some interference of the manager going on and it wasn't right that it happened. Now we have a head coach and a different way of doing things. Some are aghast. Some are prepared to see how it pans out for now...not a case of being fully supportive of it and the owners but cautiously supportive with the concern it could easily go to shit (as it has the past 20+ years).

 

Sadly, the AgendaLads mean you end up seeing any comment turned from middle-ground to staunch attack/defend. I'm refraining from that as much as I can now and ignoring most and their one-track mind.

[yarddog73]

4 minutes ago, boundaryblue80 said:

 

 

As for the Wellens article...another re-hash from Mr Axe-To-Grind. It's old news. We know there was some interference of the manager going on and it wasn't right that it happened. Now we have a head coach and a different way of doing things. Some are aghast. Some are prepared to see how it pans out for now...not a case of being fully supportive of it and the owners but cautiously supportive with the concern it could easily go to shit (as it has the past 20+ years).

 

Sadly, the AgendaLads mean you end up seeing any comment turned from middle-ground to staunch attack/defend. I'm refraining from that as much as I can now and ignoring most and their one-track mind.

That's a fair stance if your own views aren't so entrenched and polarised.

 

I admit I'm a negative pessimist and probably don't give a balanced view the majority of time but are you seriously suggesting the puppets in charge of the team are not being influenced by those above or that it's even acceptable or sensible to continue to operate to that model, it's failing and dismally, it needs change and now, that's not having an agenda that is being able to see the wood for the trees, out of interest how long you giving him then National League? Conference North? because that's the trajectory we're on.

[wiseowl]

On 9/13/2019 at 11:50 AM, boundaryblue80 said:

 

 

As for the Wellens article...another re-hash from Mr Axe-To-Grind. It's old news. We know there was some interference of the manager going on and it wasn't right that it happened. Now we have a head coach and a different way of doing things. Some are aghast. Some are prepared to see how it pans out for now...not a case of being fully supportive of it and the owners but cautiously supportive with the concern it could easily go to shit (as it has the past 20+ years).

 

Sadly, the AgendaLads mean you end up seeing any comment turned from middle-ground to staunch attack/defend. I'm refraining from that as much as I can now and ignoring most and their one-track mind.

The problem is BB that if it does "go to shit" we don't have very much further to fall before we disappear into oblivion (never to come back in my opinion).

 

There are some very polarised views, I agree, but I just "step back" from it all every now and then and look at "the evidence". Since the new regime came in, we have been on a worrying downward spiral. Some will focus on nonsense minutiae as evidence of some positives (he's renamed a stand, he gave us a scarf etc.) but when you step back and look at the things that are fundamental:-

 

Relegation to the bottom league

Struggling in that league

An already small fanbase diminishing even further

A hopelessly divided fanbase

A disconnect between club and fans, as bad as any I can ever recall

 

[kowenicki]

34 minutes ago, wiseowl said:

The problem is BB that if it does "go to shit" we don't have very much further to fall before we disappear into oblivion (never to come back in my opinion).

 

There are some very polarised views, I agree, but I just "step back" from it all every now and then and look at "the evidence". Since the new regime came in, we have been on a worrying downward spiral. Some will focus on nonsense minutiae as evidence of some positives (he's renamed a stand, he gave us a scarf etc.) but when you step back and look at the things that are fundamental:-

 

Relegation to the bottom league

Struggling in that league

An already small fanbase diminishing even further

A hopelessly divided fanbase

A disconnect between club and fans, as bad as any I can ever recall

 

 

You just summarised the last 10 years+.  The downward trajectory was set long before AL pitched up.  It’s up to him to arrest the decline.  He’ll either change it or he won’t.  

 

If he fails then he’s no better than the rest that have sat on that board over that period (and I include everybody that has sat on it). But it’s hardly his fault alone that we are where we are... far from it.