unsworthlatic Posted September 24, 2019 Share Posted September 24, 2019 26 minutes ago, TheBigDog said: 1. That’s why it’s an OWTB FACT - something that starts out as a rumour or hearsay and is quickly adopted by many as gospel..* 2. I have no idea what we would pay a centre back of the calibre, age and experience of Wheater so cannot comment to be honest. 3. Again, if I don’t know then I would simply say so rather than try and reply. I’d let the ITK Lads answer... (*) In a couple of weeks I’ll be down the pub chatting about Latics and someone will say “that Wheater is on 4.5k per week” to be quickly corrected by someone else saying “nah...he’s on 8k minimum” Fair enough then. As I said, that's what I believe to be the case Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kowenicki Posted October 4, 2019 Share Posted October 4, 2019 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave_Og Posted October 4, 2019 Share Posted October 4, 2019 11 minutes ago, kowenicki said: I really am beginning to fall out of love with the whole sport. What utter, utter meaningless bollocks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kowenicki Posted October 4, 2019 Share Posted October 4, 2019 Just now, Dave_Og said: I really am beginning to fall out of love with the while sport. What utter, utter meaningless bollocks. I think it potentially means lots of things. Probably means we are having to defend too much. Probably means he is doing all the work. For sure means he’s quite good in the air. Other interpretations are possible. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave_Og Posted October 4, 2019 Share Posted October 4, 2019 4 minutes ago, kowenicki said: I think it potentially means lots of things. Probably means we are having to defend too much. Probably means he is doing all the work. For sure means he’s quite good in the air. Other interpretations are possible. Not all 'defensive duels' (good grief) are 50/50 so the fact that one person has won more of them than someone else doesn't mean he's necessarily done better. It's subjectivity with no context. Or to put it another way; utter, utter bollocks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kowenicki Posted October 4, 2019 Share Posted October 4, 2019 1 minute ago, Dave_Og said: Not all 'defensive duels' (good grief) are 50/50 so the fact that one person has won more of them than someone else doesn't mean he's necessarily done better. It's subjectivity with no context. Or to put it another way; utter, utter bollocks. Of course it’s not the whole story. Its a cold stat. Like possession, like shots. It’s just a stat. No need to take it so seriously. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave_Og Posted October 4, 2019 Share Posted October 4, 2019 Just now, kowenicki said: Of course it’s not the whole story. Its a cold stat. Like possession, like shots. It’s just a stat. No need to take it so seriously. straw/back/the/broke/camel's/that/the. The fact that many people are employed making this nonsense up is just evidence that the game is crawling up its own fundament. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GlossopLatic Posted October 4, 2019 Share Posted October 4, 2019 9 minutes ago, Dave_Og said: straw/back/the/broke/camel's/that/the. The fact that many people are employed making this nonsense up is just evidence that the game is crawling up its own fundament. You're sounding like an embittered old man here. I'd say it provides an insight and is the best evidence to show how well he wins the ball in the air. Better than the vast majority. Statistics and Data can be hugely useful tools in business for creating a strategy that works. Brentfords highly successful recruitment policy is based on statistical analysis. Most top clubs now use it when considering tactics and recruitment. Adapt or die the choice is ours. Heres an insight into Liverpools recent re-emergence Combining Data science and Human scouting Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave_Og Posted October 5, 2019 Share Posted October 5, 2019 7 hours ago, GlossopLatic said: You're sounding like an embittered old man here. I'd say it provides an insight and is the best evidence to show how well he wins the ball in the air. Better than the vast majority. Statistics and Data can be hugely useful tools in business for creating a strategy that works. Brentfords highly successful recruitment policy is based on statistical analysis. Most top clubs now use it when considering tactics and recruitment. Adapt or die the choice is ours. Heres an insight into Liverpools recent re-emergence Combining Data science and Human scouting Guilty as charged on occasions! But... I have no issue with these stats and absolutely recognise their importance at professional level when they are part of the whole and can be properly analysed although I rather doubt that happens at our level. I hear the lads at work discussing them so earnestly as if they matter in isolation and they absolutely don't. My favourite stat? When Leicester won the league there were only three games in the whole season in which they had more possession that the opposition.# I'll stick by my contention that when used in isolation to try to give weight to a particular viewpoint they are as useful as an ashtray on a motorbike. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheBigDog Posted October 5, 2019 Share Posted October 5, 2019 1 hour ago, Dave_Og said: Guilty as charged on occasions! But... I have no issue with these stats and absolutely recognise their importance at professional level when they are part of the whole and can be properly analysed although I rather doubt that happens at our level. I hear the lads at work discussing them so earnestly as if they matter in isolation and they absolutely don't. My favourite stat? When Leicester won the league there were only three games in the whole season in which they had more possession that the opposition.# I'll stick by my contention that when used in isolation to try to give weight to a particular viewpoint they are as useful as an ashtray on a motorbike. Properly used, theses stats can make a huge difference. I went to watch Brentford versus Bristol City on Wednesday. Prior to the game I attended a presentation on the new stadium and it included a slide or two on the owner Matthew Benham and his company Smart Odds. The club uses the data gathered by the business to inform player recruitment and succession planning. Properly used, it can make a huge difference. Also, I notice that we have a guy called Dylan Mistry on the staff who has the title ‘Analyst’, Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Londonboy Posted October 5, 2019 Share Posted October 5, 2019 11 minutes ago, TheBigDog said: Properly used, theses stats can make a huge difference. I went to watch Brentford versus Bristol City on Wednesday. Prior to the game I attended a presentation on the new stadium and it included a slide or two on the owner Matthew Benham and his company Smart Odds. The club uses the data gathered by the business to inform player recruitment and succession planning. Properly used, it can make a huge difference. Also, I notice that we have a guy called Dylan Mistry on the staff who has the title ‘Analyst’, Yep agree. If you dont use the data and stats available to your advantage in any business these days you will probably fail, as your competition will be using the same data. Just the way of the world so needs to be embrased or face the consequences Think Singe would agree Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BP1960 Posted October 5, 2019 Share Posted October 5, 2019 1 hour ago, TheBigDog said: Properly used, theses stats can make a huge difference. I went to watch Brentford versus Bristol City on Wednesday. Prior to the game I attended a presentation on the new stadium and it included a slide or two on the owner Matthew Benham and his company Smart Odds. The club uses the data gathered by the business to inform player recruitment and succession planning. Properly used, it can make a huge difference. Also, I notice that we have a guy called Dylan Mistry on the staff who has the title ‘Analyst’, Agreed, when actively scouting for Nottingham Forest over 20 years I introduced Chief Scout Ian Storey - Moore to computer analysis. I'm not quite the some people may think. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lukers1 Posted October 5, 2019 Share Posted October 5, 2019 19 minutes ago, BP1960 said: Agreed, when actively scouting for Nottingham Forest over 20 years I introduced Chief Scout Ian Storey - Moore to computer analysis. I'm not quite the some people may think. Are any players on your radar currently BP? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yarddog73 Posted October 5, 2019 Share Posted October 5, 2019 Saw a stat this week that showed Hamer as making the second most tackles at fullback, is that really a good thing considering he's probably missed more than any other fullback as well, all it means to me ìs we are under the cosh for the vast majority of games. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BP1960 Posted October 5, 2019 Share Posted October 5, 2019 3 hours ago, Lukers1 said: Are any players on your radar currently BP? Passed some info recently, but the club are stuck with looking at free agents now until January. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave_Og Posted October 5, 2019 Share Posted October 5, 2019 Yep, exactly that. But does anyone think that we are competent at the required analysis? My original point was about them not being looked at in proper context. The people who nearly saved Bury do similar things to Smart Odds Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kowenicki Posted October 5, 2019 Share Posted October 5, 2019 3 hours ago, yarddog73 said: Saw a stat this week that showed Hamer as making the second most tackles at fullback, is that really a good thing considering he's probably missed more than any other fullback as well, all it means to me ìs we are under the cosh for the vast majority of games. That’s not “all it means”. It’s one possible conclusion, the stat needs to be viewed in context. Dave is right when he says one single stat doesn’t tell the whole story. To use it as purely a negative inference is as bad as using it as a purely positive one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frankies6 Posted October 5, 2019 Share Posted October 5, 2019 The modern game is awash with stats.. i do wonder how managers and coaches from yesteryear got through a whole season without having these meaningless Stat generators.The whole game has been over complicated by the Techy generation..Heres a simple stat 1 win =3 points ... which sadly we are not achieving.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BP1960 Posted October 5, 2019 Share Posted October 5, 2019 47 minutes ago, Frankies6 said: The modern game is awash with stats.. i do wonder how managers and coaches from yesteryear got through a whole season without having these meaningless Stat generators.The whole game has been over complicated by the Techy generation..Heres a simple stat 1 win =3 points ... which sadly we are not achieving.. We don't need stats to see this team won't score many goals with just a road runner up front. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LightDN123 Posted October 5, 2019 Share Posted October 5, 2019 8 hours ago, yarddog73 said: Saw a stat this week that showed Hamer as making the second most tackles at fullback, is that really a good thing considering he's probably missed more than any other fullback as well, all it means to me ìs we are under the cosh for the vast majority of games. This this and this. He’s below average, most of his tackles are recovery tackles from his own mistakes. Positionally, I don’t even think he knows where he is on the pitch. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
simplythemostimportantkick Posted October 5, 2019 Share Posted October 5, 2019 36 minutes ago, LightDN123 said: This this and this. He’s below average, most of his tackles are recovery tackles from his own mistakes. Positionally, I don’t even think he knows where he is on the pitch. I know you’d expect better from a veteran nearing the end of their career... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LightDN123 Posted October 5, 2019 Share Posted October 5, 2019 21 minutes ago, simplythemostimportantkick said: I know you’d expect better from a veteran nearing the end of their career... Come off it, some make out he’s the next Cafu. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
simplythemostimportantkick Posted October 5, 2019 Share Posted October 5, 2019 7 minutes ago, LightDN123 said: Come off it, some make out he’s the next Cafu. I’ve not met these people making out that ! Are you sure ? Or, is it more accurate that people may spot POTENTIAL without need to pull him up on things he will learn, ie positional sense etc. How old is the lad ? How many first team appearances has he got ? Without checking I think that’ll prove there is something there to work with. Unless 3-4 managers have all been wrong ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LightDN123 Posted October 5, 2019 Share Posted October 5, 2019 I hope there is don’t get me wrong, everyone has potential but current ability and cap on potential is what varies. I don’t know what his potential could be, his current ability however I can form my own opinion on. Game after game I have watched I have seen him far to easily been beaten 1 on 1, positionally been out of place costing us goals, Be interesting to see how many goals have been conceded down his side. He’s young and got a decent throw in, his defending is questionable and attacking he’s none existent. Does he ever really cross the ball ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
latics22 Posted October 5, 2019 Share Posted October 5, 2019 The owner chasing a quick buck like Edmundson. Not slating hamer, not seen enough of him . But looking a little like one of the chosen ones. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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