oafcmetty Posted August 4, 2020 Share Posted August 4, 2020 29 minutes ago, singe said: Everything we haven't been doing for years. It's not rocket science. But we wouldn't have a "rich man" to give some of our most notable sycophants a nice warm place to bury their heads and dream of everything being alright, whilst holding their nose to the inevitable stench hinting at reality and threatening to disturb their slumber. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
underdog Posted August 4, 2020 Share Posted August 4, 2020 31 minutes ago, singe said: There are a millions plans. Community Club, even Macclesfield are going that route now. Professionals in the various jobs, weed out those that are not/loyal to a person not the club. Firmer foundations. Invest more in youth, scout in the lower leagues. Smaller tighter squad but a bit better youth. Identify the right charachter of player. Tight financial planning, but clear and budgetted and excellent management of accounts whilst being able to adapt to challenges and opportunities. Build relationships with supliers and sponsors. Regain the reputation as being a club that looks after it's players and makes it fun. Become a club that invests in mental health and renown for players regaining positive mntal health. Build on the work of the Comminuity Trust and a pathway through our squads, rather than a quick buck. Identify the right Directors and leaders of the club Abandon the coup at the Trust and work with it to safeguard the future of the stadium or a move away. Benchmark against the best and succesful clubs and take the positive aspects from them. Everything we haven't been doing for years. It's not rocket science. wonderfully put....a club to be proud of Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GlossopLatic Posted August 4, 2020 Share Posted August 4, 2020 55 minutes ago, Lags said: So, we go bump. If and it is an if, some phoenix rises from the ashes and during this 10 year ride back to bottom of league two we don't like some other owner, what then? The last 2 owners have set a very low benchmark which is great news for any incoming owner. If they deliver a promotion with no off the field shitstorms they will be heralded a demi-god. As for 10 years down the line not liking the owner if we get back to L2 we will deal with it their is always a solution. But right now Id happily roll the dice and see what happens. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
League one forever Posted August 4, 2020 Share Posted August 4, 2020 4 hours ago, adamoafc said: Because AL has over inflated his valuation of the club shouldn’t be a reason not to sell and fans to just ‘accept it’. We are constantly behind with payments, players dispute still not sorted, should fans wait till the barrel is empty and extra debts lumped in again? The more debt/ late payments continue, the likely hood of returning to the courts is high. I can’t just accept this is where we are. Why can’t fans want the best for the club without it being seen as a negative. If AL won’t sell and he keeps us out of admin, the only real choice fans have is to vote with their feet. You seem to think that by going to games fans are accepting the status quo. I think that’s nonsense. The fans that still go, do so in spite of AL not because they accept him and they are type who will always go - no matter what. Which means we’ll never get the total boycott that would possibly force his hand. In terms of late payments and treatment of staff, how are we accepting something we have zero control over? I have lots of respect for you and everything you’ve done, but the brutal truth is, it’s had very little impact on your main aims. Better dialogue with the owner/greater transparency/better treatment of fans. That’s not your fault, it’s just the reality of dealing with a private businessman with a massive ego, who has zero obligation to do anything you/we/I want. I hope the debt does go up, (there’s nothing to mortgage so he’s only spending his own money) and I hope the club sucks every penny from him. I hope he leaves in a shitstorm with his tail between his legs. But that’s all I’ve got - hope. Finally I don’t think your negative in the slightest for wanting the club to be the best it can, and you’ve done a great job in trying affect change. All I would say is don’t hold everybody else to your standard of care or ‘acceptance.’ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lags Posted August 4, 2020 Share Posted August 4, 2020 55 minutes ago, oafc 123 said: Even though you have never said things are right, you give the impression that you think we are just moaning over nothing (with LaticsPete 'like' approval each time). Then let me be clear, that impression is wrong. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
adamoafc Posted August 4, 2020 Share Posted August 4, 2020 1 minute ago, League one forever said: In terms of late payments and treatment of staff, how are we accepting something we have zero control over? I haven’t said fans are accepting. That comment was in reference to a previous post. We all want the same thing for the club. People just express it in massively different ways. I appreciate that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lags Posted August 4, 2020 Share Posted August 4, 2020 56 minutes ago, singe said: There are a millions plans. Community Club, even Macclesfield are going that route now. Professionals in the various jobs, weed out those that are not/loyal to a person not the club. Firmer foundations. Invest more in youth, scout in the lower leagues. Smaller tighter squad but a bit better youth. Identify the right charachter of player. Tight financial planning, but clear and budgetted and excellent management of accounts whilst being able to adapt to challenges and opportunities. Build relationships with supliers and sponsors. Regain the reputation as being a club that looks after it's players and makes it fun. Become a club that invests in mental health and renown for players regaining positive mntal health. Build on the work of the Comminuity Trust and a pathway through our squads, rather than a quick buck. Identify the right Directors and leaders of the club Abandon the coup at the Trust and work with it to safeguard the future of the stadium or a move away. Benchmark against the best and succesful clubs and take the positive aspects from them. Everything we haven't been doing for years. It's not rocket science. All sounds great, now where's the plan to do it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave_Og Posted August 4, 2020 Share Posted August 4, 2020 19 minutes ago, Lags said: All sounds great, now where's the plan to do it? It's a hell of a sight more detailed than the laughable excuse for a plan that the owner came up with. There's no point in having a detailed implementation plan while he is in situ. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
underdog Posted August 4, 2020 Share Posted August 4, 2020 4 hours ago, Dave_Og said: It's a hell of a sight more detailed than the laughable excuse for a plan that the owner came up with. There's no point in having a detailed implementation plan while he is in situ. maybe so, but you can thrash out a plan B, but it needs input on several fronts and the vehicle to drive it. PTB, FLG, Trust? Three organisations that can cover all fans views, its how or if they want to pull together to come up with a plan B. That must include Ground ownership - Landlord wants to sell Club ownership - or increase in the fan shareholding Current fan share holding (Trust) is it an effective vehicle? ACV - renewal should be ideally started to be looked at again in the next 4 months I fear we are too diverse and fractured in out views to pull it off, or those that do step up get slaughtered one way or another...it can have a serious damage to you mental health Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave_Og Posted August 4, 2020 Share Posted August 4, 2020 1 minute ago, underdog said: maybe so, but you can thrash out a plan B, but it needs input on several fronts and the vehicle to drive it. PTB, FLG, Trust? Three organisations that can cover all fans views, its how or if they want to pull together to come up with a plan B. That must include Ground ownership - Landlord wants to sell Club ownership - or increase in the fan shareholding Current fan share holding (Trust) is it an effective vehicle? I fear we are too diverse and fractured in out views to pull it off, or those that do step up get slaughtered one way or another...it can have a serious damage to you mental health Yep. I can't see that many will get involved sadly. Those who suggest a phoenix club if the worst happens seems to assume that will happen by magic as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
singe Posted August 4, 2020 Share Posted August 4, 2020 44 minutes ago, Dave_Og said: It's a hell of a sight more detailed than the laughable excuse for a plan that the owner came up with. There's no point in having a detailed implementation plan while he is in situ. Cheers! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
singe Posted August 4, 2020 Share Posted August 4, 2020 1 hour ago, Lags said: All sounds great, now where's the plan to do it? That's the plan for when he leaves, and probably worse case that he leaves with nothing in place. Depends if he sells it, hands it to the Trust,or whatever. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
underdog Posted August 4, 2020 Share Posted August 4, 2020 3 hours ago, singe said: That's the plan for when he leaves, and probably worse case that he leaves with nothing in place. Depends if he sells it, hands it to the Trust,or whatever. Thats it.......the nothing in place bit and we are running around like headless chickens, pulling miracles outta thin air but......there is a document we could all be look at Its, a starting point, the FSA document, even if its just to exhaust possibilities, look at options, dismiss stuff. Eight pages of stuff https://thefsa.org.uk/wp-content/uploads/2020/07/Clubs-in-crisis-fsa-guidance-july-2020.pdf Worth a read Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lee Sinnott Posted August 4, 2020 Share Posted August 4, 2020 I see another Trust director has resigned... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oafcmetty Posted August 4, 2020 Share Posted August 4, 2020 11 minutes ago, Lee Sinnott said: I see another Trust director has resigned... Oh my god! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wiseowl Posted August 4, 2020 Share Posted August 4, 2020 4 hours ago, Lags said: What would be the difference should the club enter administration owing 1 million or 5 million? to a potential new buyer. Chances are the buyer wouldn't pay 1 million either way. Agree, to a certain extent, with the bit in bold. The point is this though; the more the club continues down its current trajectory, the less appealing it is to anybody in any scenario. For example, if we had entered Administration as a league 1 club, with average gates around 4,500 and some decent prospects on the playing staff, we'd be far more of an appealing prospect than a league 2 club with average attendances of, say, 3,000 and a pile of shite on 12 month contracts on the books. Simple economics really - in any "club purchase" scenario (and that's ignoring the farce of the team/ground ownership etc.). Also, the huge elephant in the room is this. If the present trajectory continues, we WILL lose our league status. It's curtains then, there'll be no coming back for us as we no longer have the core fan base IMO (we would NOT do a Stockport i.e. maintaining support). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
League one forever Posted August 4, 2020 Share Posted August 4, 2020 12 minutes ago, wiseowl said: Agree, to a certain extent, with the bit in bold. The point is this though; the more the club continues down its current trajectory, the less appealing it is to anybody in any scenario. For example, if we had entered Administration as a league 1 club, with average gates around 4,500 and some decent prospects on the playing staff, we'd be far more of an appealing prospect than a league 2 club with average attendances of, say, 3,000 and a pile of shite on 12 month contracts on the books. Simple economics really - in any "club purchase" scenario (and that's ignoring the farce of the team/ground ownership etc.). Also, the huge elephant in the room is this. If the present trajectory continues, we WILL lose our league status. It's curtains then, there'll be no coming back for us as we no longer have the core fan base IMO (we would NOT do a Stockport i.e. maintaining support). I thought you wanted a total boycott to push him out? Now you want the fans for us to be as attractive as possible to any potential buyer? You can’t have it both ways. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whittles left foot Posted August 4, 2020 Share Posted August 4, 2020 3 hours ago, adamoafc said: I don’t see what burying heads in the sand achieves when we are in the current state we are in. I wondered how long it would be before somebody wheeled out this old load of tripe. Just because we still go and support the club does not mean we are not aware of the state we are in. You obviously feel your head is above the sand-and what good is it doing- same owner, same problems. Your awareness does not seem to have made much difference so far. Come back to us when you can actually say ' we achieved this' by our actions as long as you are not saying it when we have been deducted points for going into admin or starting a phoenix club. That is not an achievement. That is failure. Then your comments may have more weight. After all we are such an attractive proposition having been in the premiership a loooong time ago. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave_Og Posted August 4, 2020 Share Posted August 4, 2020 1 hour ago, underdog said: Thats it.......the nothing in place bit and we are running around like headless chickens, pulling miracles outta thin air but......we a document we could all be looking at. Its, a starting point, the FSA document, even if its just to exhaust possibilities, look at options, dismiss stuff. Eight pages of stuff https://thefsa.org.uk/wp-content/uploads/2020/07/Clubs-in-crisis-fsa-guidance-july-2020.pdf Worth a read Reads like bog standard common sense to me but I guess that hasn't been displayed in abundance Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deyres42 Posted August 4, 2020 Share Posted August 4, 2020 19 minutes ago, League one forever said: I thought you wanted a total boycott to push him out? Now you want the fans for us to be as attractive as possible to any potential buyer? You can’t have it both ways. Aye, for a set of fans who love to proclaim themselves as the best in the land a prospective buyer might be wondering why they don't bother turning up for home matches... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wiseowl Posted August 4, 2020 Share Posted August 4, 2020 49 minutes ago, League one forever said: I thought you wanted a total boycott to push him out? Now you want the fans for us to be as attractive as possible to any potential buyer? You can’t have it both ways. It's very hard online isn't it? I was responding to a particular point made by Lags, League one. Yes I support a total boycott to "flush 'em out" - and yes I realise it won't ever happen. No worries at all; it will all be irrelevant in the not too distant future as we won't have a club to support and all of this bickering will have seemed pointless. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
singe Posted August 4, 2020 Share Posted August 4, 2020 36 minutes ago, deyres42 said: Aye, for a set of fans who love to proclaim themselves as the best in the land a prospective buyer might be wondering why they don't bother turning up for home matches... I thought no one was interested? Anyone with a bit of common sense can see a big upswing is possible, we just show them the Fulham crowd. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OneSizeFitz Posted August 4, 2020 Share Posted August 4, 2020 I'd reckon we'd be one of the least attractive investments in the Football League, sadly. The stadium / land ownership situation is a major factor in that. Even if the club and the land were brought together again though, I don't really see us as a club with lots of untapped potential. We're in one of the most deprived towns in the country, our transport links are poor, and we've got several competitor clubs (including two of the biggest in the world) right on our doorstep. Our away following is quite good, but our home support is pretty dire. We have some history, admittedly, but we've never been what you'd call a 'big' club. I doubt that a few seasons in the First Division thirty years ago is enough on its own to persuade an investor that we're the club for them, unless they're very desperate. If they had real money to invest, why would they choose us over another club in a similar position? Feels to me that our only real hope is for someone (or multiple people) with a real connection to the club / area to come in and invest. But if those people exist, you'd have thought they'd have come forward before now... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
League one forever Posted August 4, 2020 Share Posted August 4, 2020 25 minutes ago, wiseowl said: It's very hard online isn't it? I was responding to a particular point made by Lags, League one. Yes I support a total boycott to "flush 'em out" - and yes I realise it won't ever happen. No worries at all; it will all be irrelevant in the not too distant future as we won't have a club to support and all of this bickering will have seemed pointless. Bickering or debate? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
underdog Posted August 4, 2020 Share Posted August 4, 2020 3 hours ago, Lee Sinnott said: I see another Trust director has resigned... is it me officially? hahah ....oh dear.....this is pivotal. If its who I think it is, there is no-one that has served longer than 2 years....thats a lot of knowledge to be lost. Especially when stuff like the ACV renewal needs looking at There are a minimum directors needed to run the Trust. This means it falls under the minimum amount and this is a concern Additionally, The fan share holding in the club has to be considered Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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