unsworth blue Posted November 27, 2019 Share Posted November 27, 2019 1 minute ago, Clifford said: If the FLG are true to their word the club may not need a massive backer. The dream of the north stand providing 365 income could become a reality. Dale, Accrington and others survive and prosper on less than we have and would have. The longer they have to wreck the club the harder it will be once they inevitably fuck off. Agree Clifford - think many do - but still choose to attend as when all said & done, its OAFC that we all love whoever owns it. Too inflammatory to be called a Scab for choosing to go or indeed not go. Once I got called a Scab for protesting, I made a promise to myself to carry on protesting irrespective of what people who I have known for many years (50ish in many cases) as I know my sentiments and reasons for protesting are honourable - I want them out because the longer they carry on, the more likely we are to go bust. I am not going to stand around and watch these wastrels ruin our great club without doing what I can. The fact I still choose to go to matches is also honourable ( I have been given a season ticket - long story), I still support the team no matter who picks it and will continue to do so unless they as individuals do not try whereupon I will exercise my right to complain (not that often in 50 years). I have no beef with the manager or the players, I still love my club just not the wastrels who are ruining it for all of us. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnnyPimp Posted November 27, 2019 Share Posted November 27, 2019 AL paid three million quid for a Football League golden ticket. How much could he realistically get back if we got relegated out of the league? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whittles left foot Posted November 27, 2019 Share Posted November 27, 2019 45 minutes ago, Clifford said: Under the current ownership this club is going into non league and fast. Sit back and relax. AL and Mo are doing fine. When the FLG purchase the ground and are willing to support the club from that the club will be a good proposition. AL and Mo are ruining this club in every aspect possible. Keep paying in if that doesn't bother you. AL will either change his ways or leave. If he doesn't his money will run out and the club will change hands Never understood why people can post stuff like this with such certainty. There are so many if, buts and maybe's in this that it just doesn't have any credibility. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GlossopLatic Posted November 27, 2019 Share Posted November 27, 2019 8 minutes ago, whittles left foot said: Never understood why people can post stuff like this with such certainty. There are so many if, buts and maybe's in this that it just doesn't have any credibility. I don't know why people like you have this "Im just happy to have a club" mentality. Its the mentality of the loser Do you not want to win at all? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whittles left foot Posted November 27, 2019 Share Posted November 27, 2019 1 hour ago, GlossopLatic said: I don't know why people like you have this "Im just happy to have a club" mentality. Its the mentality of the loser Do you not want to win at all? Perhaps some of it is that I appreciate how fragile a football club's existence like ours is, especially after what has happened at Bury. Fail to see the connection you have made to being a loser. What is it you are trying to win in this context? I would rather have a club survive than disappear, presumably you would rather it folded rather than keep the current ownership regime. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave_Og Posted November 27, 2019 Share Posted November 27, 2019 24 minutes ago, whittles left foot said: Perhaps some of it is that I appreciate how fragile a football club's existence like ours is, especially after what has happened at Bury. Fail to see the connection you have made to being a loser. What is it you are trying to win in this context? I would rather have a club survive than disappear, presumably you would rather it folded rather than keep the current ownership regime. Is there not a possibility that the current ownership is a route to folding? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GlossopLatic Posted November 27, 2019 Share Posted November 27, 2019 38 minutes ago, whittles left foot said: Perhaps some of it is that I appreciate how fragile a football club's existence like ours is, especially after what has happened at Bury. Fail to see the connection you have made to being a loser. What is it you are trying to win in this context? I would rather have a club survive than disappear, presumably you would rather it folded rather than keep the current ownership regime. I don't want it to merely survive I want it to try and thrive the best it can. I want us to win as many games as possible. I want to see us win promotions big cup games and some memorable days out I dont want us to go the same way of Bury, but it doesn't mean we have to accept just an existence. Ive been watching us for coming upto 30 years My enthusiasm has never been lower. You're username pays homage to a player from the 70's and from what Im told a very good one. Do you not want to see more players like that? Because it won't happen under this ownership thats what I have problem with in all this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whittles left foot Posted November 27, 2019 Share Posted November 27, 2019 18 minutes ago, GlossopLatic said: I don't want it to merely survive I want it to try and thrive the best it can. I want us to win as many games as possible. I want to see us win promotions big cup games and some memorable days out I dont want us to go the same way of Bury, but it doesn't mean we have to accept just an existence. Ive been watching us for coming upto 30 years My enthusiasm has never been lower. You're username pays homage to a player from the 70's and from what Im told a very good one. Do you not want to see more players like that? Because it won't happen under this ownership thats what I have problem with in all this. Well there is a simple answer to all of the above-So do I. Your last sentence is where we differ I suppose-we just don't know how it will pan out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave_Og Posted November 27, 2019 Share Posted November 27, 2019 13 minutes ago, whittles left foot said: Well there is a simple answer to all of the above-So do I. Your last sentence is where we differ I suppose-we just don't know how it will pan out. I think we're in a balance of probabilities environment rather than seeking to establish beyond reasonable doubt. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
League one forever Posted November 27, 2019 Share Posted November 27, 2019 2 hours ago, GlossopLatic said: I don't want it to merely survive I want it to try and thrive the best it can. I want us to win as many games as possible. I want to see us win promotions big cup games and some memorable days out I dont want us to go the same way of Bury, but it doesn't mean we have to accept just an existence. Ive been watching us for coming upto 30 years My enthusiasm has never been lower. You're username pays homage to a player from the 70's and from what Im told a very good one. Do you not want to see more players like that? Because it won't happen under this ownership thats what I have problem with in all this. Would you accept folding the club (but we keep the ground) and starting again in the lower non leagues if it meant getting rid of the current owner? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave_Og Posted November 28, 2019 Share Posted November 28, 2019 4 hours ago, League one forever said: Would you accept folding the club (but we keep the ground) and starting again in the lower non leagues if it meant getting rid of the current owner? That completely misses the point which is that if things carry on as they are then lower non leagues become more and more likely. It's not a case of simply wanting rid of the owner, I'd be perfectly happy to see him stay if he started to run the club properly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GlossopLatic Posted November 28, 2019 Share Posted November 28, 2019 7 hours ago, whittles left foot said: Well there is a simple answer to all of the above-So do I. Your last sentence is where we differ I suppose-we just don't know how it will pan out. Where in all likelihood do you think we will end up. 6 hours ago, League one forever said: Would you accept folding the club (but we keep the ground) and starting again in the lower non leagues if it meant getting rid of the current owner? Neither of us want that option, but it doesn't have to be a bi-polar option of Lemsagams or bust. Their are loads of other outcomes that would be far better for all of us that could happen and other avenues that could be explored. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoeP Posted November 28, 2019 Share Posted November 28, 2019 12 hours ago, whittles left foot said: Never understood why people can post stuff like this with such certainty. There are so many if, buts and maybe's in this that it just doesn't have any credibility. Don't think there's many ifs and buts there.. The direction we're heading in is fairly certain. The only uncertainty it whether the club will exist at all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
unsworthlatic Posted November 28, 2019 Share Posted November 28, 2019 12 hours ago, whittles left foot said: Perhaps some of it is that I appreciate how fragile a football club's existence like ours is, especially after what has happened at Bury. Fail to see the connection you have made to being a loser. What is it you are trying to win in this context? I would rather have a club survive than disappear, presumably you would rather it folded rather than keep the current ownership regime. I don't agree with your view but I respect it all the same. All I will say and this is with 110% certainty is try not to keep the mindset that "there is nobody else so this is all we have, let's support it, at least we have a club" On a separate thread or earlier in this one, I published a long list of interested parties/consortium's that had looked at/bought clubs over the previous 6 months. Prior to looking, I only thought there would be 2/3, there were 8 different clubs with ample interested parties. Aside from this however, my mum had been watching Bury for just over 55 years. She helped save Bury in 2002 in which she thought were their darkest days yet 17 years later, she sits there on a Saturday at home with no football team to watch. It's fragile for some general supporters but certainly hard-hitting for me and my family as my mum has lost her football club. This was down to rogue owners (2 of them) but also down to supporters who sat back, said everything was fine and carried on because, and to quote a friend of my mum's, "we were going bust before him came in (untrue by the way), he's given us an extra few years and at least we have a team to support" - 6 months following this statement, Bury were expelled from the Football League. All most Bury fans wanted, including my mum, was to see their team play, yet because everybody sat back and enjoyed what was going on (promotion etc) it has cost them their football club. Disclaimer: I'm not saying our football is enjoyable, far from it but you get my point. Please don't let that happen to us! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nzlatic Posted November 28, 2019 Share Posted November 28, 2019 1 hour ago, unsworthlatic said: On a separate thread or earlier in this one, I published a long list of interested parties/consortium's that had looked at/bought clubs over the previous 6 months. Prior to looking, I only thought there would be 2/3, there were 8 different clubs with ample interested parties. Annoyingly I only thought of a question I would have liked put to the FLG the morning after the event! But it may have been discussed so I'll ask it now anyway... as the FLG don't have any current plans to pursue full ownership of the football club, have they had contact with any of the parties/consortiums that are looking at football clubs? The Dutch one in particular had been subject of a few strong rumours. No worries if I've missed the boat, but should you have any follow up discussions with them it'd be interesting to know if anyone is actively pushing OAFC as an attractive prospect to potential buyers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whittles left foot Posted November 28, 2019 Share Posted November 28, 2019 47 minutes ago, unsworthlatic said: I don't agree with your view but I respect it all the same. Appreciate the considered reply. The previous thread reply you mention was I think in reply to me and I was surprised by the amount of interest. Now if we consider Latics position at the present do you consider this a fair summation? There are 3 potential ownership routes -the current owner, FLG owner or new owners. All these are complicated by one man owning the playing club a fourth party owning the ground but supposedly want to sell. The split ownership is unlikely to be resolved if the FLG purchase the ground-in fact the relationship is likely to become worse going off recent events. So probably best scenario would be complete buyout lock stock and barrel of the club-Sorry but I cannot see this happening despite your earlier comments, mainly due to the complicated ownership issues resulting in too high a price to remove all the present parties. I love my club but don't consider them an attractive financial package. I think they would have to own all of Clayton Fields to become that! I know we can all quote scenarios that suit our argument but I just don't get this fan power line of thought. What could fans have done at Bury to change the outcome? The EFL have shown they are useless in their role as financial guardians. I have no intention to disrespect your PTB efforts to instigate change but in all honesty what has been achieved so far? You posted 21 hrs ago the owner will not engage with you so what now? My example and I quoted this yesterday is Blackpool where they hated the owner but couldn't get him out-the courts did eventually. Agree with you the footie is not great but we have a team to watch. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
unsworth blue Posted November 28, 2019 Share Posted November 28, 2019 1 hour ago, whittles left foot said: Appreciate the considered reply. The previous thread reply you mention was I think in reply to me and I was surprised by the amount of interest. Now if we consider Latics position at the present do you consider this a fair summation? There are 3 potential ownership routes -the current owner, FLG owner or new owners. All these are complicated by one man owning the playing club a fourth party owning the ground but supposedly want to sell. The split ownership is unlikely to be resolved if the FLG purchase the ground-in fact the relationship is likely to become worse going off recent events. So probably best scenario would be complete buyout lock stock and barrel of the club-Sorry but I cannot see this happening despite your earlier comments, mainly due to the complicated ownership issues resulting in too high a price to remove all the present parties. I love my club but don't consider them an attractive financial package. I think they would have to own all of Clayton Fields to become that! I know we can all quote scenarios that suit our argument but I just don't get this fan power line of thought. What could fans have done at Bury to change the outcome? The EFL have shown they are useless in their role as financial guardians. I have no intention to disrespect your PTB efforts to instigate change but in all honesty what has been achieved so far? You posted 21 hrs ago the owner will not engage with you so what now? My example and I quoted this yesterday is Blackpool where they hated the owner but couldn't get him out-the courts did eventually. Agree with you the footie is not great but we have a team to watch. OAFC will not survive under this ownership, like Bury FC didn't (well still alive but hardly kicking). What are fans supposed to do - sit back and watch our carcass of a club die a slow lingering death like it is now? Would rather fight and hope that the club can survive somehow (no faith at all in this regime ever getting it right) but if not, at least supporters tried to wrestle back some control. Many Bury FC fans ruing the day they let countless opportunities of calling their Trust to challenge the club's owners. Now is the right time to challenge OAFC owners - in light of Bury FC, the Government & EFL are awaking to the fact that their financial guardianship role is ineffective and they won't want to lose another club on their watch. Leyton Orient Trust (who are attending next week to talk to OAFC fans) managed to engineer the fight amongst their supporters that ultimately ended in the club's owner being ousted and they have "reclaimed their faith". Bury FC fans should have heeded the many warnings and alerted the wider footballing family and others to their plight much quicker - it may have saved them, who knows? PTB in my opinion has achieved a great deal in maybe a month of activity - has awoken a largely apathetic fanbase to our plight, asked perfectly reasonable questions of both the owners and the FLG to date, asked fans for their opinions on many aspects of the club that any decent owners could and should have at least acknowledged. An ownership that cannot see that their actions are largely responsible for losing a good 30% of an hardcore customer base in a season should be asking the questions of themselves - not this shower of wastrels though, they think they are "doing a good job". The football is very poor but I am still watching - will it ever improve under Al & Mo - suspect not, no sign of any improvement there; will it improve under another regime - very possibly yes. Survival is first priority though - far from guaranteed under a regime that cannot even produce financial statements that accord with recognised financial standards (Trust have reported that) or sack anyone and everyone who was there before their ownership (except Barry & handful of players), and run up industrial tribunal cases like there is no tomorrow. Will fight with these lads to the end, whenever or whichever end it is - hopefully a positive one without the owners and we have the lovely club we once had back...…….. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
League one forever Posted November 28, 2019 Share Posted November 28, 2019 4 hours ago, GlossopLatic said: Where in all likelihood do you think we will end up. Neither of us want that option, but it doesn't have to be a bi-polar option of Lemsagams or bust. Their are loads of other outcomes that would be far better for all of us that could happen and other avenues that could be explored. Like what? The options seem incredibly sparse to me. 8 hours ago, Dave_Og said: That completely misses the point which is that if things carry on as they are then lower non leagues become more and more likely. It's not a case of simply wanting rid of the owner, I'd be perfectly happy to see him stay if he started to run the club properly. Misses the point. . . Ok. Do you honestly think any owner would stay after 3/4/5 consecutive relegations? Can you give one example of a club our size going from league one to northern premier? You’re massivley exaggerating the reality of the situation. Far, far more likely is the club will go bust and we’ll have to start again in lower non league. Or AL will pull the plug, we’ll go into admin, get relegated and start again in the conference. I was asking Glossop a hypothetical question, because to my mind it will never improve under AL. I’ll eat my own arse if he turns it around. But then people don’t want to face the reality of what AL going means, and in the short term it very likely means non league football. Now that to me is a price worth paying IF the FLG secure the ground, the chuckles and Barry are gone and we become a well run family club. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GlossopLatic Posted November 28, 2019 Share Posted November 28, 2019 7 minutes ago, League one forever said: Like what? The options seem incredibly sparse to me. Misses the point. . . Ok. Do you honestly think any owner would stay after 3/4/5 consecutive relegations? Can you give one example of a club our size going from league one to northern premier? You’re massivley exaggerating the reality of the situation. Far, far more likely is the club will go bust and we’ll have to start again in lower non league. Or AL will pull the plug, we’ll go into admin, get relegated and start again in the conference. I was asking Glossop a hypothetical question, because to my mind it will never improve under AL. I’ll eat my own arse if he turns it around. But then people don’t want to face the reality of what AL going means, and in the short term it very likely means non league football. Now that to me is a price worth paying IF the FLG secure the ground, the chuckles and Barry are gone and we become a well run family club. We could find new owners and stay up as Unsworth highlights above and was said by Adam at the fans forum people want to buy league clubs. If getting rid of AL and MO meant that we suffered a relegation and abit of short term pain and the right person comes in and we start to mover forward then yes regrettably Id' pay that price but it doesn't necessarily have to be that way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
unsworthlatic Posted November 28, 2019 Share Posted November 28, 2019 3 hours ago, nzlatic said: Annoyingly I only thought of a question I would have liked put to the FLG the morning after the event! But it may have been discussed so I'll ask it now anyway... as the FLG don't have any current plans to pursue full ownership of the football club, have they had contact with any of the parties/consortiums that are looking at football clubs? The Dutch one in particular had been subject of a few strong rumours. No worries if I've missed the boat, but should you have any follow up discussions with them it'd be interesting to know if anyone is actively pushing OAFC as an attractive prospect to potential buyers. Not a problem. It wasn't really discussed to a level where you could say they have or haven't been in contact with any other parties/consortium's to date. They were very clear throughout that they were concentrating on dealing with the purchase of the stadium and waiting to hear back from solicitors regarding the shares whilst running the OEC. If we engage in communication with them once more we can certainly ask the question and report back, no problem! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
unsworthlatic Posted November 28, 2019 Share Posted November 28, 2019 3 hours ago, whittles left foot said: Appreciate the considered reply. The previous thread reply you mention was I think in reply to me and I was surprised by the amount of interest. Now if we consider Latics position at the present do you consider this a fair summation? There are 3 potential ownership routes -the current owner, FLG owner or new owners. All these are complicated by one man owning the playing club a fourth party owning the ground but supposedly want to sell. The split ownership is unlikely to be resolved if the FLG purchase the ground-in fact the relationship is likely to become worse going off recent events. So probably best scenario would be complete buyout lock stock and barrel of the club-Sorry but I cannot see this happening despite your earlier comments, mainly due to the complicated ownership issues resulting in too high a price to remove all the present parties. I love my club but don't consider them an attractive financial package. I think they would have to own all of Clayton Fields to become that! I know we can all quote scenarios that suit our argument but I just don't get this fan power line of thought. What could fans have done at Bury to change the outcome? The EFL have shown they are useless in their role as financial guardians. I have no intention to disrespect your PTB efforts to instigate change but in all honesty what has been achieved so far? You posted 21 hrs ago the owner will not engage with you so what now? My example and I quoted this yesterday is Blackpool where they hated the owner but couldn't get him out-the courts did eventually. Agree with you the footie is not great but we have a team to watch. It is certainly something that needs to be discussed down the line. However, at this moment in time, the FLG stressed that they wanted to get the deal done on the footprint of Boundary which includes everything. They also insisted that they want to see the Club play at Boundary Park for another 100+ years which settled the fears of some supporters. Ownership is a tough one, the 2 options (providing FLG purchase the stadium/footprint as planned) would be the current owner or somebody buying everything as the FLG stated that they owning the Football Club was not a desire of theirs at this time. Scenarios are aplenty and the amount of variables really makes you consider every eventuality. However, what is becoming even more clear day by day is that the current regime sadly, seemingly do not acknowledge their fan base. The rejection of a meeting and now the failure to respond to the survey results provided (which they asked for in a private message by the way!) shows the lack of desire and intent to change the way they currently run the club. They are at risk of losing so many more supporters and for an ever dwindling fan base, that would be increasingly worrying to anybody, seemingly that doesn’t appear to worry the current owner. Our fans base has suffered from apathy for a number of years. PTB needs to wake some of those fans up and hopefully gain their support to gather momentum to ensure we cannot continue to be ignored. There are plans in place beyond the protest on 07/12/2019 and these will be revealed over the coming weeks. Blackpool is one example of which it took years however, there are examples such as Port Vale and more impressively Leyton Orient, who we have their continued support from which are “success stories” in dark days provided. I understand the point to a degree but that is not a valid enough reason to “sit back and wait to see how it pans out” in my opinion but once more I take on board your view and respect it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nzlatic Posted November 28, 2019 Share Posted November 28, 2019 35 minutes ago, unsworthlatic said: Not a problem. It wasn't really discussed to a level where you could say they have or haven't been in contact with any other parties/consortium's to date. They were very clear throughout that they were concentrating on dealing with the purchase of the stadium and waiting to hear back from solicitors regarding the shares whilst running the OEC. If we engage in communication with them once more we can certainly ask the question and report back, no problem! Appreciate the reply, cheers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wiseowl Posted November 28, 2019 Share Posted November 28, 2019 22 hours ago, whittles left foot said: And your solution will result in different outcome? How exactly? Blackpool fans stayed away for months but never got the owner out-it was the courts that shifted him eventually. It tells you wrong-again. TBH folks like yourself if we should ever get new owners would be better for the club if you just stayed away. It doesn't need the prejudice you hold. As most football clubs are owned by an individual then by definition they are the 'play thing' as you put of the owner. Still filed correctly under embarrassing fans. Apples and pears, Maurice. The Oystons had the money to carry on regardless. Our owner doesn't. The stay aways are hurting badly - so it IS working. I don't condone the use of the word "scab" - inappropriate and offensive to well-meaning, loyal fans. However, I do think the home attenders (certainly pay on the dayers) are misguided. In addition, those loyal fans currently boycotting are no lesser "fans" than the ones attending - and you have stated on here that boycotters are not "proper fans". That's utter testicles. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whittles left foot Posted November 28, 2019 Share Posted November 28, 2019 2 hours ago, wiseowl said: In addition, those loyal fans currently boycotting are no lesser "fans" than the ones attending Yep, still struggling with your use of loyal and boycott in the same sentence. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wiseowl Posted November 28, 2019 Share Posted November 28, 2019 2 hours ago, whittles left foot said: Yep, still struggling with your use of loyal and boycott in the same sentence. It's a loyal boycott Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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