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2 hours ago, al_bro said:

AL's defence will be the dispute over ownership and the police investigation. Perhaps an adjournment will be made until this is resolved one way or the other by GMP.


AL defence has been put out in statements by the club, but from a legal point of view hasn’t been tested. The police don’t seem interested. 

 

Based on Simon Blitz Q&A AL signed a copy of the original lease and the changes regarding the Debenture/club loans. 
 

He has paid some rent since taking over. He has paid some of the Debenture related debt and then defaulted on the rest. 
 

Based on this paper trail, it seems fairly evident there are liabilities and he hasn’t been honouring them. 
 

He can say it wasn’t picked up in due diligence, but come on, really? It’s the lease for the premises of his business. That’s a fairly important document that would surely be one of the first his legal advisor would check?  In addition, unless a Blitz is a liar, these documents have been signed by AL, he offered to show them at the Q&A. 
 

That’s just me trying to apply a bit of common sense, which I appreciate in the legal system can go out of the window! 
 

I also spoke to someone on Saturday, who is fairly close to the situation, who told me it cannot simply be disputed (in terms of the administration) based on the above factual information that the debt is clearly owed. AL either pays it, or the administrator will be appointed. 

 

This is also supported by WUP.  The club is insolvent, as it can’t meet its liabilities as they fall due. 
 

All sounds almost too easy though and as others have alluded, wouldn’t be surprised if it drags on, as surely AL isn’t just going to walk away without a fight? 
 

 Like him or not,  Simon Blitz is a wealthy and experienced business man and is being advised by well regarded professionals.  Presumably this action wouldn’t have been taken unless he thought it could be concluded? 
 

Who knows, can convince myself either way, only going to find out for certain on Friday 

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5 hours ago, underdog said:

Your right however. Each director should be able to ask for and access up to date financial stuff when asked

 

I suppose the question is...where any of them asking? Darren reported monthly of the financial "pulse" of the club to the Trust.

 

If he was being denied access then maybe "oppressed minority share holder" we could have looked at again. I know at the December EFL/FSA meeting with other supporters Trust, our chair raised our concerns over the accounts and struggle of getting our rights. So we were firmly on the Radar then.

 

 


Surely the directors (eg Darren )could also be asking the staff if they are being paid on time, not taking the finance directors word for it. The directors surely could look at the bank accounts to see what money is there. For that matter they could ask the football manager if anyone has influenced their team selection. The reason players and staff are not being paid on time is clearly because there in no money!

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Municipalisation would resolve all of these capitalist-based problems.

Football as a business or football as a part of our culture/heritage?

Business? Then don't moan. This is business in action. Business blah blah blah. Capitalism is wonderful etc. Bury, Oldham, Macc - screw them all. This is business. Seriously, why are you complaining if you buy into the free market?

We need a different model for lower league football. 

 

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8 hours ago, bigfatjoe1 said:

Municipalisation would resolve all of these capitalist-based problems.

Football as a business or football as a part of our culture/heritage?

Business? Then don't moan. This is business in action. Business blah blah blah. Capitalism is wonderful etc. Bury, Oldham, Macc - screw them all. This is business. Seriously, why are you complaining if you buy into the free market?

We need a different model for lower league football. 

 


No we don’t.  We just need people to adhere to normal corporate governance and sensible management. Football IS a business, there is no going back.

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11 hours ago, Theoutsider said:


AL defence has been put out in statements by the club, but from a legal point of view hasn’t been tested. The police don’t seem interested. 

 

Based on Simon Blitz Q&A AL signed a copy of the original lease and the changes regarding the Debenture/club loans. 
 

He has paid some rent since taking over. He has paid some of the Debenture related debt and then defaulted on the rest. 
 

Based on this paper trail, it seems fairly evident there are liabilities and he hasn’t been honouring them. 
 

He can say it wasn’t picked up in due diligence, but come on, really? It’s the lease for the premises of his business. That’s a fairly important document that would surely be one of the first his legal advisor would check?  In addition, unless a Blitz is a liar, these documents have been signed by AL, he offered to show them at the Q&A. 
 

That’s just me trying to apply a bit of common sense, which I appreciate in the legal system can go out of the window! 
 

I also spoke to someone on Saturday, who is fairly close to the situation, who told me it cannot simply be disputed (in terms of the administration) based on the above factual information that the debt is clearly owed. AL either pays it, or the administrator will be appointed. 

 

This is also supported by WUP.  The club is insolvent, as it can’t meet its liabilities as they fall due. 
 

All sounds almost too easy though and as others have alluded, wouldn’t be surprised if it drags on, as surely AL isn’t just going to walk away without a fight? 
 

 Like him or not,  Simon Blitz is a wealthy and experienced business man and is being advised by well regarded professionals.  Presumably this action wouldn’t have been taken unless he thought it could be concluded? 
 

Who knows, can convince myself either way, only going to find out for certain on Friday 

+1 Also late/non payment of wages is a clear indication of insolvency

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8 hours ago, bigfatjoe1 said:

Municipalisation would resolve all of these capitalist-based problems.

Football as a business or football as a part of our culture/heritage?

Business? Then don't moan. This is business in action. Business blah blah blah. Capitalism is wonderful etc. Bury, Oldham, Macc - screw them all. This is business. Seriously, why are you complaining if you buy into the free market?

We need a different model for lower league football. 

 

No way should taxpayers be funding lower league football. If councils have spare money, unlikely, then it would be much better spent on public facilities 

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5 minutes ago, Dave_Og said:

No way should taxpayers be funding lower league football. If councils have spare money, unlikely, then it would be much better spent on public facilities 

 

Nailed it Dave

 

The people in a town will only turn up in numbers and pay to watch, if the football is entertaining sprinkled with a bit of success

 

Our average home gates over the last decade or so go along way to evidence our town has all but deserted the club

 

Most folk would rather have their taxes go towards having their bins emptied more regularly than go towards their local football club

 

Brutal, but its an almost impossible job these days to get a lower league club to attract enough £revenue to financially wash its face without an owner/s who are willing to chuck a few £m at it every year

 

 

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15 minutes ago, Dave_Og said:

No way should taxpayers be funding lower league football. If councils have spare money, unlikely, then it would be much better spent on public facilities 

 

Just like they spend it on obscure projects rather than on the dilapidated market and bus station toilets.

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There's enough money in football for it to be distributed more fairly.  Or to have a system that is more fair.  At the moment it's all geared toward maximising revenue for the biggest clubs.

 

Football is a business, but it's a unique one.  It doesn't operate under normal supply and demand rules, if a team playing better football with cheaper tickets come along, we don't all jump ship and call ourselves fans.  Also clubs are often instrinsically linked to local communities and play very important roles in local society.  They need to be protected somehow.

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28 minutes ago, BP1960 said:

 

Just like they spend it on obscure projects rather than on the dilapidated market and bus station toilets.

I've never been a taxpayer in Oldham as I left town when I was 17 so no clue re specifics but the point stands. 

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9 hours ago, bigfatjoe1 said:

Municipalisation would resolve all of these capitalist-based problems.

Football as a business or football as a part of our culture/heritage?

Business? Then don't moan. This is business in action. Business blah blah blah. Capitalism is wonderful etc. Bury, Oldham, Macc - screw them all. This is business. Seriously, why are you complaining if you buy into the free market?

We need a different model for lower league football. 

 

 

giphy.gif

 

 

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1 hour ago, kowenicki said:


No we don’t.  We just need people to adhere to normal corporate governance and sensible management. Football IS a business, there is no going back.

 

Yes, we definitely do.

 

All clubs are operating on losses - some significant - and others are on the brink of administration, i.e. us. Do you honestly believe the future of modern football involves lower league clubs on a rainy, Tuesday night in a league where we're all just waiting around for some random billionaire to buy us? The big clubs are talking about forming their own European Super League. Who will want to watch Oldham? Not my generation (33% of PTB's survey was people who didn't remember Latics' glory days. That's our future fanbase).

 

Also what people? You can't claim those two things in bold will solve the problem when it consistently doesn't happen - to take your own spiel: that's business. Leyton Orient, Bury, Bolton, Notts County, Macclesfield, Wimbledon... Oldham?

 

To claim there's no going back just isn't true. There are plenty of fan-owned clubs in the UK alone approach the model from a different - often non-profit - perspective. Look at Germany. There are alternatives. I'd like to think we'll find one before houses are being put up on BP.

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1 hour ago, No Pyro No Party said:

There are plenty of fan-owned clubs in the UK alone approach the model from a different - often non-profit - perspective. 


.... and yet there are far more examples of clubs just being run properly. 
 

 

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Just now, kowenicki said:


.... and yet there are far more examples of clubs just bring run properly. 
 

 

 

There are, I can't deny that. But there are cracks everywhere and more clubs are being affected with no signs of that slowing down.

 

Again, most are operating on huge financial losses and we, along with others, are totally unsustainable. Does this seem like a lasting, long-term business idea?

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3 minutes ago, No Pyro No Party said:

Look at Germany. There are alternatives. I'd like to think we'll find one before houses are being put up on BP.


Match tickets in Germany just a few years ago were €20-€25 yet now theyre around €50 

The Bundesliga supposedly has the ‘50+1’ rule in which supporters own 51% of their club 

That rule has been broken in Leverkusen, Wolfsburg, Hoffenheim and Leipzig. Apparently  Hertha Berlin will be next. 

So whilst the 50+1 rule exists it has been broken without action from the Bundesliga


Supporters in Germany are increasingly protesting about rescheduling of games for tv with Friday and Monday night games 


The Bundesliga is going the exact same way as the Premier League 

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2 minutes ago, tGWB said:


Match tickets in Germany just a few years ago were €20-€25 yet now theyre around €50 

The Bundesliga supposedly has the ‘50+1’ rule in which supporters own 51% of their club 

That rule has been broken in Leverkusen, Wolfsburg, Hoffenheim and Leipzig. Apparently  Hertha Berlin will be next. 

So whilst the 50+1 rule exists it has been broken without action from the Bundesliga


Supporters in Germany are increasingly protesting about rescheduling of games for tv with Friday and Monday night games 


The Bundesliga is going the exact same way as the Premier League 

 

Absolutely correct in highlighting clubs breaching this - RB Leipzig being the cherry on top. That doesn't mean we can't look at these alternatives and evaluate what might be best for our club, our future and how we can be more sustainable. As you pointed out, fans of those Bundesliga teams are actively protesting and looking for solutions (the recent empty ultras section by Eintracht Frankfurt was a great shout). We could possibly go into administration on Friday and fans seem to just be wanting another owner to swoop in and rescue us, just like Corney and AL did...

 

Bury should've set off alarm bells ringing but it seems to have ultimately not changed anything.

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20 minutes ago, kowenicki said:


.... and yet there are far more examples of clubs just bring run properly. 
 

 

Are there that many?  Obviously Accrington are touted as being a well run club but are there many others?

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35 minutes ago, nzlatic said:

There's enough money in football for it to be distributed more fairly.  Or to have a system that is more fair.  At the moment it's all geared toward maximising revenue for the biggest clubs.

 

Football is a business, but it's a unique one.  It doesn't operate under normal supply and demand rules, if a team playing better football with cheaper tickets come along, we don't all jump ship and call ourselves fans.  Also clubs are often instrinsically linked to local communities and play very important roles in local society.  They need to be protected somehow.

 

Absolutely.......I get the fact that Premiership clubs don’t want to share their income with lower league clubs and why should they?

However, in 2017/2018 between them they shared £2.5 billion in commercial/tv revenue from the premier league pot and that’s without their individual club revenues!

Just 2% of that equates to about £695.000   each for the 72 clubs outside the Premiership. In the grand scheme of things would they really miss 2%?

If channelled in to the right areas of the lower league clubs it would solve the problem overnight.

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7 minutes ago, oafc1955 said:

 

Absolutely.......I get the fact that Premiership clubs don’t want to share their income with lower league clubs and why should they?

However, in 2017/2018 between them they shared £2.5 billion in commercial/tv revenue from the premier league pot and that’s without their individual club revenues!

Just 2% of that equates to about £695.000   each for the 72 clubs outside the Premiership. In the grand scheme of things would they really miss 2%?

If channelled in to the right areas of the lower league clubs it would solve the problem overnight.

 

Then some selfish agents from lower league clubs would demand higher wages for their clients and the problem spirals.

Wages are at the brunt of  this as they scale down from the obscene amounts paid at top level.

Salary cap them, if they want to go abroad let them, the game will continue no matter.

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2 minutes ago, No Pyro No Party said:

We could possibly go into administration on Friday and fans seem to just be wanting another owner to swoop in and rescue us, just like Corney and AL did...

 

Bury should've set off alarm bells ringing but it seems to have ultimately not changed anything.


The difference though is that we are quite deliberately being forced into Administration by someone who already owns our stadium and the land its sits on and surrounds it 

 

I cant believe for one second that he hasnt got people waiting in the shadows to take up the day to day management of our club whilst he gets to work on the more profitable venture of building houses and a hotel on the land surrounding the stadium 

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5 minutes ago, oafc1955 said:

 

 

If channelled in to the right areas of the lower league clubs it would solve the problem overnight.

 

That would take so,me serious monitoring.  The track record of football channelling funds into the right areas is less than commendable

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