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As Dave_Og says this a very complex situation that probably won't be resolved by the end of the season.

 

I was chatting to a Leyton Orient fan prior to the game in December. He said the situation at their club eith their idiot owner came to ahead when a winding up petition came up against the club. The then owner said he wouldn't contest the winding up petition unless he was paid the money he was owed (a figure of around £15million) by the new owners waiting in the wings. The old owner got his money and left and the club survived. Would anyone be surprised if AL tried a similar trick. Give me my money back or the club goes under.

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I've realised, in later life, that I'm not particularly a big football fan anymore. I just like drinking on trains.

Don’t forget that the Administrator will be one appointed by Blitz under the terms of the mortgage debenture.  He will therefore do whatever Blitz wants him to do.  It doesn’t necessarily mean insolve

Abdallah and his team running the club have basically refused to engage with anyone. Everyone has been their enemy. The adversarial trust. The OEC and FLG totally against them. The HMRC. The landlord

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I can see this being concluded pretty quickly and that light at the end of the tunnel is starting to get a little brighter.

 

Blitz wouldn’t issue if there was any risk that Lemsagam could successfully defend or counter-claim.  Police were dragged in over OEC dodgy dealings but that’s gone quiet with suggestions no further action being taken.

 

Lemsagam will never back down and cough up 100% of what he owes nor continue to pay what he’ll owe Blitz so I can see him walking away.

 

They’ll definitely be prospective buyers out there and it wouldn’t surprise me if one or two are already known and have noted their interest hence why this recent action has been taken.  It’s been reported that funding for the club is in place during administration - that wouldn’t happen if there wasn’t confidence that the club could be sold on in a very short time period.  Due diligence done correctly....

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5 minutes ago, Midsblue said:

that wouldn’t happen if there wasn’t confidence that the club could be sold on in a very short time period.  Due diligence done correctly....

Barry Owen remaining as director...

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42 minutes ago, underdog said:

I don't think there is much they can do until after Friday. Other than prepare for the worst. Not all of them live locally either so getting together will be a challenge. Trust Chair  is about to board a plane flying back from Australia today , christ, they don't even have a meeting room. They could be meeting in a pub at this rate.

 

I would not be surprised if more resign soon the pressure to get through this must be mounting on them all and there are many not left to wade through this mess.They will need all the support they can get. I can only imagine the amount of stuff they are going to have to try and sort to get some sort of handle on the situation. 

 

I ask the question every meeting to the Trust rep, with regards to club financials and obligations being met and he does answer them and we report that. I will presume the answers were honest. then he was not genuinely aware, that the HMRC was already in motion, (The January date  indicates it must have been going on for a couple of months prior and there was a club board meeting in Jan too) then it stinks. 

 

I will be honest, it is not the first time either. In November there was a delay in the Trust rep receiving legal information issued by the landlord at the time.

 

The clubs scathing response to our letter of complaint issued in December with regards to our share holder rights to see FULL accounts and critical on one of our team, most of us then wanted to withdraw the Trust rep as a protest, but we were advised to hang in there and attempt one last bash at it. The accounts for 2018/19 are due at Companies house this month and we have not bottomed out 2017/18

 

I may not get on with the Trust rep but boy I do not envy the position he is in now. He becomes liable for the club debt with the other club directors if it does go into admin. I have a feeling one of those calls this week will be checking the Trust's indemnity insurance. Worse case scenario, he could loose his home and livelyhood.....for a volunteer role that is just too much sacrifice.

 

What a bloody mess......there was only going to be two players in this Al and Blitz, its down who will blink first and has the deeper pockets

Darren is a non-exec director so he won’t be liable for anything.

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1 minute ago, GlossopLatic said:

As Dave_Og says this a very complex situation that probably won't be resolved by the end of the season.

 

I was chatting to a Leyton Orient fan prior to the game in December. He said the situation at their club eith their idiot owner came to ahead when a winding up petition came up against the club. The then owner said he wouldn't contest the winding up petition unless he was paid the money he was owed (a figure of around £15million) by the new owners waiting in the wings. The old owner got his money and left and the club survived. Would anyone be surprised if AL tried a similar trick. Give me my money back or the club goes under.

Dave is citing exactly why the process is unlikely to progress quickly and also why new interested parties are reticent to invest.

 

Hard to criticise Brass Bank for pressing the nuclear button, given the circumstances, but once pressed, the legal process will take its own path. Nobody can predict the outcome with high degree of certainty, protracted legal wrangling will cost both parties more money.

 

If there is a credible bidder out there, surely their ideal situation is to purchase club and ground, without some convoluted history of transactions with OMBC, former owners etc which could mean unquantified liability. Pending legal cases with a former owner surely consign us to months of purgatory.

 

We all think any new owner needs to address serious under investment in the ground, squad, training facility etc which is several million pounds in addition to initial purchase price.

 

Maybe somebody who had a short and frustrating experience in the managers chair has a consortium in mind.

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Here's a thought:

 

If we go into administration any new owner would form a new legal entity (ie Oldham Athletic 2020 Ltd)

 

I don't believe the current legal standing that the Trust have a 3% B share holding entitling them to appoint a board member to the current Oldham Athletic 2004 Ltd would be transferable

 

Hopefully a new owner would see the benefits in trying to engage with our supporters by offering a shareholding to a fans led group

 

The 'Push the Boundary' lads would be popular, with some additional help maybe :chubb:

 

 

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1 hour ago, underdog said:

I may not get on with the Trust rep but boy I do not envy the position he is in now. He becomes liable for the club debt with the other club directors if it does go into admin. I have a feeling one of those calls this week will be checking the Trust's indemnity insurance. Worse case scenario, he could loose his home and livelyhood.....for a volunteer role that is just too much sacrifice.

 


that’s not correct. 

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On 2/28/2020 at 11:38 PM, Guy Branston Pickle said:

For those genuinely in the know, how goosed are we? Are we genuinely fucked or is this the monthly “Oldham Athletic are knackered” headline? It certainly feels more real than that 

I`m not genuinely in the know by any means but my gut feeling (and with reference to old conversations with those deffo in the know) has told me for some considerable time that Blitz would not see the football club go to the wall. I`m ignoring all the wild speculation and trust that Blitz will do the right thing all round by the club. Football will continue at Boundary Park and, if it all comes off, we will have a much better future.

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My take is Blitz and Corney had a “gentleman’s” agreement about the rent payments for the new stand where nothing had to be paid. I imagine when they sold the business no one flagged this up to any potential new owner and blitz did not make it clear he would want proper rent value. Nothing would have showed in the "due diligence  process" because there was no history of a payments having to be made.

Rent was then started post sale for whatever reason. In trying to get out of paying the rent the club have then gone after Blitz by attempting to dig up prior dodgy dealings with the council. Blitz has decided to play his trump card and go for administration to get the new owner to start paying money again. What ever u think of any of the people involved the whole thing is a joke. Blitz is prepared to put the club into admin to force money to be paid.  The only people who suffer are the fans as per..

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1 hour ago, RobOAFC said:

 

Can only see this going in favour of Blitz (or at least next week will unless AL pays up).

 

Courts tend to favour those owed the money and have any dispute go to a separate case.

 

Admin next friday with AL out but it'll rumble on for a few years yet if AL has the financial stomach for it.

 

 

 

The strange thing in all this is AL seems to enjoy supporting the team and 3 of the January signings have paid off with recent home performances as good as we have seen for a long time.

Why would he give this all up after a substantial fee by our standards was paid for Rowe and CBJs loan deal?

I think we might see AL settling some of these debts, not iimmediately but over a period of time 

Blitz gets his money, a new rent agreement is arranged and the North Stand opens again.

Failing that a consortium is waiting in the wings to step in as soon as they can.

Could be totally wrong of course.

 

 

 

 

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1 hour ago, underdog said:

I may not get on with the Trust rep but boy I do not envy the position he is in now. He becomes liable for the club debt with the other club directors if it does go into admin. I have a feeling one of those calls this week will be checking the Trust's indemnity insurance. Worse case scenario, he could loose his home and livelyhood.....for a volunteer role that is just too much sacrifice.

Underdog, this is simply not true.

 

No director (non exec or otherwise) is liable for a limited company's debts! That is the whole point of a "limited liability company". Generally, the only time they may become personally liable is if a case of wrongful or fraudulent trading is pursued and proven in a court (which is rare). They will, of course, be liable for any "personal guarantees" they may have given on behalf of the company (which a Trust rep would certainly never do).

 

This has always been a problem with the Trust (i.e. they appear not to have understood some of the basics) and is why the Trust will always be completely useless in scenarios like this. Not a criticism of the Trust - just a simple fact.

 

It was always going to be down to the owners of the club, ground etc. (and their creditors) to fight any proper battles. The Trust will only ever be an insignificant bystander like the rest of us.

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7 minutes ago, wiseowl said:

Underdog, this is simply not true.

 

No director (non exec or otherwise) is liable for a limited company's debts! That is the whole point of a "limited liability company". Generally, the only time they may become personally liable is if a case of wrongful or fraudulent trading is pursued and proven in a court (which is rare). They will, of course, be liable for any "personal guarantees" they may have given on behalf of the company (which a Trust rep would certainly never do).

 

This has always been a problem with the Trust (i.e. they appear not to have understood some of the basics) and is why the Trust will always be completely useless in scenarios like this. Not a criticism of the Trust - just a simple fact.

 

It was always going to be down to the owners of the club, ground etc. (and their creditors) to fight any proper battles. The Trust will only ever be an insignificant bystander like the rest of us.

Which company is operating as an LLC rather than Limited?

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4 minutes ago, mcfluff1985 said:

Which company is operating as an LLC rather than Limited?

Jeez fluffy boy - a limited company has limited liability. Are you getting confused with American LLCs? Let's not split silly hairs (again)

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43 minutes ago, BP1960 said:

 

The strange thing in all this is AL seems to enjoy supporting the team and 3 of the January signings have paid off with recent home performances as good as we have seen for a long time.

Why would he give this all up after a substantial fee by our standards was paid for Rowe and CBJs loan deal?

I think we might see AL settling some of these debts, not iimmediately but over a period of time 

Blitz gets his money, a new rent agreement is arranged and the North Stand opens again.

Failing that a consortium is waiting in the wings to step in as soon as they can.

Could be totally wrong of course.

 

 

 

 

 

I'd guess that AL will be given two options next week by the court - pay the full amount owed immediately or come to a payment plan with Blitz (and raise the dispute in a separate case).

 

I'd say its almost certain that Blitz will want the full amount immediately. Given that staff were supposedly told the 9th for wages, I doubt AL will be able to get the 600k into the country for payment by Friday.

 

I'd also guess that in light of all this, any other creditors we have who are overdue payment will be supporting the WUP so he if wants to stay in charge he will need to dig deep into the pockets and do it very quick.

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1 hour ago, Matt60 said:

My take is Blitz and Corney had a “gentleman’s” agreement about the rent payments for the new stand where nothing had to be paid. 

Correct Matt.

 

During a meeting with Corney, Gee etc. (and a few of us off here) he confirmed the documented monthly rental amount for the JR (I can't recall the figure but a user off here did the notes of the meeting) and said that the landlord had agreed to "waive it" for a few months as cashflow at Latics was difficult. He did say that was a situation that could not continue "for too much longer" and all this was long before AL ever became involved.

 

The monthly rental amount for the JR has therefore been known about, and documented, for a long time.

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What likely creditors would we have?  I'm thinking from the perspective of new owners, what debt would they have to clear?

 

Blitz and his £600k although that may be up for negotiation in terms of how it's paid

HMRC and the £70k tax bill

 

We know about those, but does anyone know of any other creditors large enough to put off any buyers?  Obviously they'd have to meet the running costs of the club, wage bill etc, but there is a path to income to cover that. And they'd probably have to shell out to buy the ground but that generates revenue if operated properly.

 

I'm assuming that AL's directors loans wouldn't be payable given it was put in to cover ongoing losses?  Or would he be treated as any other creditor and get a certain p in the £ on the money he's put in that sits in the director's loan account? And the same apply to Blitz/HMRC?

 

Any info from those more knowledgeable would be apprecitated!

 

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If he hasn’t got the funds then obviously he can’t pay, if he has will he be forced to pay it?

 

Whether he pays it or not such is his lack of support I feel his time at the club is coming to an end. He has demonstrated  time and time again that these 🤡’s are totally incapable of running the football club and getting the fans back on side.

Is it worth shelling out another £600k just to prolong the inevitable?

 

I really hope he walks away and takes the rest of the 🤡’s with him!!

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14 minutes ago, nzlatic said:

What likely creditors would we have?  I'm thinking from the perspective of new owners, what debt would they have to clear?

 

Blitz and his £600k although that may be up for negotiation in terms of how it's paid

HMRC and the £70k tax bill

 

We know about those, but does anyone know of any other creditors large enough to put off any buyers?  Obviously they'd have to meet the running costs of the club, wage bill etc, but there is a path to income to cover that. And they'd probably have to shell out to buy the ground but that generates revenue if operated properly.

 

I'm assuming that AL's directors loans wouldn't be payable given it was put in to cover ongoing losses?  Or would he be treated as any other creditor and get a certain p in the £ on the money he's put in that sits in the director's loan account? And the same apply to Blitz/HMRC?

 

Any info from those more knowledgeable would be apprecitated!

 

There'll be dozens of creditors, probably many of them smaller companies who would suffer if debts went unpaid.  Loans, assuming they are unsecured which I imagine they are as there are so few assets to secure them against,  will be creditors like any other.

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No way will AL have to pay the £600k on Friday. 

1st off the debt will have to be proven , if it is then AL will be given a set time to pay it, probably end of the month. I suspect the £70k tax bill will be paid before the winding up date.

So come Saturday we still have AL and his toxic team of imbeciles running the circus but with the threat of admin hanging over us until month end.

Should that be the situation then we have the worst case scenario of 

1/ AL pays up and the circus goes on

2/ We are put in admin and start next season with 12pts deduction and then we really are in the mire.

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Reading between the lines here, it is possible that this could be a "pre-pack administration" and would, therefore, proceed and conclude pretty quickly.

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18 minutes ago, wiseowl said:

Reading between the lines here, it is possible that this could be a "pre-pack administration" and would, therefore, proceed and conclude pretty quickly.

It can only proceed quickly if AL is prepared to accept it , which is extremely doubtful.

Why woukd he walk away from millions he has put in without a fight , he could have just walked months ago.

I suspect AL is going nowhere without a fight.

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6 minutes ago, wiseowl said:

Reading between the lines here, it is possible that this could be a "pre-pack administration" and would, therefore, proceed and conclude pretty quickly.

Quite. 
 

What creditor/club/source goes into admin saying, ‘don’t worry we have already secured funds for the admin period to avoid going bust’ it doesn’t sound or feel like the usual crisis statements coming from clubs in our position. It feels planned and meditated for a specific result. 

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16 minutes ago, wiseowl said:

Reading between the lines here, it is possible that this could be a "pre-pack administration" and would, therefore, proceed and conclude pretty quickly.


Blitz would surely favour that. Less risk.

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