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Trust new chair, SOS for staff


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3 hours ago, singe said:

After Trust Chair intervened, the accounts needed to be amended as they were not compliant.

To June 2018.

https://beta.companieshouse.gov.uk/company/04989487/filing-history/MzI2NzE4ODY4NWFkaXF6a2N4/document?format=pdf&download=0

 

Boom......Page 5 section 2.......FRS 102 section 1A quoted. This was going to to be my next tattoo as I was that fed up of saying it, I was just going to have it on my arm and just point to the damn wording

 

 hope this can be viewed as good news - Other good stuff: 

 

Shareholder register - Got the club to update Companies house by adding Corney as a shareholder and dispelling the rumours

 

EFL fan meetings - Got the club to hold the first one in October at Royton Cricket club

 

EFL - Raised our clubs profile with us as being a shareholder in the Club with rights and our relationship with the club

 

FSA - Asked the FSA to give Trust a full health check on our legal entitlement and what we should be asking the club to ensure it is being run in a fit and proper way - FSA key marker questions.

 

There has been some good stuff - honest

 

 

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4 hours ago, singe said:

Briefly, the initial accounts were wrong by:

Assets corrected down from £3m  to £1.6m.

Debtors corrected to show we are owed owed £138k not £1.2m

Creditors we owe, liable within a year, revised up by £500,000 to £4m.

On the plus side Creditors due 1 yr + has been corrected to show it's £4m not £4.4m

Assts - Liabilities revised so we are £6m in the red, not £3.5m

 

This isn't 2017 to 2018, it's Phillipa correcting the 2018 accounts to make them compliant.

 

 

Buying BP would add £6m to that debt, if it happens.

 

Hire Purchase and Finance leases now revealed up to £1.7m instead of £666 in 2017.

Directors Loans now shown, was £700k under Corney, £717k now. £60k per month equivalent owed, but not £60k every month.
 

to 2018

 

to 2018 revised after Trust chair intervention.

 


 

Thanks Singe - and the club doesn't feel the need to have the accounts audited or at least subject to independent scrutiny

 

 

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58 minutes ago, unsworth blue said:

Thanks Singe - and the club doesn't feel the need to have the accounts audited or at least subject to independent scrutiny

 

 

I hope this gives you confidence that we need to "Save our Shareholding" , by keeping good people like Phillippa who show a dogged determination that this was done right from the start of Al's tenure.

 

She started this journey in May 2019 with the request to the club, 13 months ago,  gave up time to sit down with the accountant in October and to report back to the Trust in November, went to London with other and gave an overview to the EFL on Clubs accounts submitted and reform ( I believe a fellow director said he nearly fell off his chair when she started to  "advise" and the EFL and his reaction with the depth of knowledge she had) in November then helped draft the technical letter of complaint issued to the club in December with regards to the missing info we need as our entitlement. A lot of effort as a volunteer....one of many who have gone beyond a couple of hours a week to keep us going.

 

And  to continue to recruit the right people, with the right skill set to "oversee" and hold the club to account with the share holder entitlement. It 

 

I welcome the reform needed and get new blood in

 

 

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2 hours ago, underdog said:

I hope this gives you confidence that we need to "Save our Shareholding" , by keeping good people like Phillippa who show a dogged determination that this was done right from the start of Al's tenure.

 

She started this journey in May 2019 with the request to the club, 13 months ago,  gave up time to sit down with the accountant in October and to report back to the Trust in November, went to London with other and gave an overview to the EFL on Clubs accounts submitted and reform ( I believe a fellow director said he nearly fell off his chair when she started to  "advise" and the EFL and his reaction with the depth of knowledge she had) in November then helped draft the technical letter of complaint issued to the club in December with regards to the missing info we need as our entitlement. A lot of effort as a volunteer....one of many who have gone beyond a couple of hours a week to keep us going.

 

And  to continue to recruit the right people, with the right skill set to "oversee" and hold the club to account with the share holder entitlement. It 

 

I welcome the reform needed and get new blood in

 

 

I have no faith whatsoever in the club's leadership Underdog and note that they refused the offer from a very qualified specialist to provide an overview of the club's accounts free of charge. Whilst the club does not have to produce audited accounts, it gives some assurance to stakeholders that they have been reviewed independently and show a true and fair view of the state of the club's financial position. 

 

The fact that Philippa had to obtain a revision of the 2017-18 accounts speaks volumes for the club!! 

I believe that the shareholding is really irrelevant as it does not afford any assurance that the club is operating either in accordance with the club's own articles or any best practice. 

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8 hours ago, unsworth blue said:

I have no faith whatsoever in the club's leadership Underdog and note that they refused the offer from a very qualified specialist to provide an overview of the club's accounts free of charge. Whilst the club does not have to produce audited accounts, it gives some assurance to stakeholders that they have been reviewed independently and show a true and fair view of the state of the club's financial position. 

 

The fact that Philippa had to obtain a revision of the 2017-18 accounts speaks volumes for the club!! 

I believe that the shareholding is really irrelevant as it does not afford any assurance that the club is operating either in accordance with the club's own articles or any best practice. 

It may very well become "irrelevant" come the AGM on 30th July. Even Phillippa may not get through a members vote.

 

I Wonder if there has been a influx of new members this week 

 

I wonder what we will be saying if the share holding does cease and we loose this legal entitlement altogether.

 

 

 

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1 hour ago, underdog said:

It may very well become "irrelevant" come the AGM on 30th July. Even Phillippa may not get through a members vote.

 

I Wonder if there has been a influx of new members this week 

 

I wonder what we will be saying if the share holding does cease and we loose this legal entitlement altogether.

 

 

Odd post for your this underdog

 

  • How many of the c200-250 members actually vote and who on earth would vote against the new chair
  • This forum had a few posters state they are not renewing and with the Trust twitter account only having 1950 followers, where do you think an influx of members are going to appear from
  •  regarding the shareholding, my understanding (from your posts) is that the 3% Trust shareholding is a legal entitlement so how could the Trust lose this entitlement

Not being arsy btw underdog just reacting to your post

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1 hour ago, underdog said:

It may very well become "irrelevant" come the AGM on 30th July. Even Phillippa may not get through a members vote.

 

I Wonder if there has been a influx of new members this week 

 

I wonder what we will be saying if the share holding does cease and we loose this legal entitlement altogether.

 

 

 

 

In all honesty, i think the shareholding has become an issue anyway and unless we hold a 51:49 shareholding like clubs do in Germany,  the Trust are powerless to effect positive change. 

 

I do value the work that you and Philippa and some others have put in to trying to hold the owners to account but through the years, the Trust has experienced regular mishaps and people jumping ship which has led to a great decline in confidence in it as a body. I do not think that the Trust representative on the Board has helped at all and i suspect many share my opinion. 

 

     

 

 

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1 hour ago, tGWB said:

 

Odd post for your this underdog

 

  • How many of the c200-250 members actually vote and who on earth would vote against the new chair
  • This forum had a few posters state they are not renewing and with the Trust twitter account only having 1950 followers, where do you think an influx of members are going to appear from
  •  regarding the shareholding, my understanding (from your posts) is that the 3% Trust shareholding is a legal entitlement so how could the Trust lose this entitlement

Not being arsy btw underdog just reacting to your postparty

I suppose if a mass influx of new members occurred the Trust may find itself in a similar situation to the Labour Pary just before the election of Corbin whereby the new members could push their agenda perhaps to the detriment of the club as a whole.

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8 minutes ago, tGWB said:

 

Odd post for your this underdog

 

  • How many of the c200-250 members actually vote and who on earth would vote against the new chair
  • This forum had a few posters state they are not renewing and with the Trust twitter account only having 1950 followers, where do you think an influx of members are going to appear from
  •  regarding the shareholding, my understanding (from your posts) is that the 3% Trust shareholding is a legal entitlement so how could the Trust lose this entitlement

Not being arsy btw underdog just reacting to your post

You are never arsey.. hahah.  No evidence just my opinion on potential scenarios. 

 

1) Members vote: Usually done in person at AGM. From memory highest we have had in attendance is about 20 members. This year it looks like it will be a ZOOM/online AGM. I will presume voting by proxy will be rolled out and I hope, members exercise this right as it is much easier to vote by this method, if you struggle to attend in person.

 

So far, 4  election votes: Chair as Philippa has had to step in so if needs a vote for the members to accept her, Kevin Boden who has co-opted and served 11 months (think of it as an apprenticeship a ideal route to take, we have all served this way), two new co-optes of Mike Halliwell and Paul Hurst (hirst? I think) would have served 1 month.

 

2) New members: I will presume if like me, each co-optee/director asks their contacts to join the trust, Family, friends, fellow latics fans, colleagues. Maybe its me, but I always look at the calibre of potential members each candidate brings with them. Can enough have any influence on a members vote? What does the candidate bring to the trust - the skill set?  What is in it for the candidate? Hopefully the statement they provided and profiles give you a snap shot and some insight on the roles they will be doing for the Trust. Like we know Kevin Boden is now membership.

 

3) Lose its entitlement: Maybe the wrong words as I have no idea what happens if the Trust ceases as a company. I am sure though via the FSA legal advice, it would be discussed if it got that far and members consulted. Again the synic in me, what ways can the Trust be infiltrated to influencing voting at Trust board level and why?

 

Until stepping up to the Trust my brain cell did not think like this to actually question motivations of actions of people and organisations. It has been a eye opener and has got me not to make decisions from the heart but with that  one blond brain cell I have.....yes it does hurt.

 

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52 minutes ago, unsworth blue said:

 

In all honesty, i think the shareholding has become an issue anyway and unless we hold a 51:49 shareholding like clubs do in Germany,  the Trust are powerless to effect positive change. 

 

I do value the work that you and Philippa and some others have put in to trying to hold the owners to account but through the years, the Trust has experienced regular mishaps and people jumping ship which has led to a great decline in confidence in it as a body. I do not think that the Trust representative on the Board has helped at all and i suspect many share my opinion. 

 

     

 

 

with the FLG, the 51% was discussed.....The other option is money, Trust raises money and buys more shares.....there is also the Corney shares?.

 

Fair comments. The new chair has alluded in her statement that there was internal stuff going on with Trust staff. 

 

Below is  from the January statement published on the Trust website. Trust promised this week that the January and February notes will be published soon, they have done Decembers.

 

Trust Director: Mark Harrington proposed a formal review of the social media/communication policy and how the Trust’s OAFC Rep is engaging in the public domain using this method. Additional Concerns have been by a fans if it is the right method to use. It was agreed that two Trust directors not immediately involved with these issues will be appointed to review the concerns and will report back at our February meeting.

 

 

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1 hour ago, unsworth blue said:

 

In all honesty, i think the shareholding has become an issue anyway and unless we hold a 51:49 shareholding like clubs do in Germany,  the Trust are powerless to effect positive change. 

 

I do value the work that you and Philippa and some others have put in to trying to hold the owners to account but through the years, the Trust has experienced regular mishaps and people jumping ship which has led to a great decline in confidence in it as a body. I do not think that the Trust representative on the Board has helped at all and i suspect many share my opinion. 

1 hour ago, underdog said:

You are never arsey.. hahah.  No evidence just my opinion on potential scenarios. 

 

3) Lose its entitlement: Maybe the wrong words as I have no idea what happens if the Trust ceases as a company. I am sure though via the FSA legal advice, it would be discussed if it got that far and members consulted. Again the synic in me, what ways can the Trust be infiltrated to influencing voting at Trust board level and why?

 

 

 

From memory, I believe the monies to buy the 3% shareholding came from the pockets of our very own supporters

 

I have £200,000 in mind, not an insignificant amount of money (underdog should be able to confirm without breaching any confidentiality arrangements)

 

I would suggest that if the club was as it is today and a brand new supporter Trust was formed and promoted itself as needing £200,000 to get the legal entitlement of a 3% shareholding and a seat on the club board, most supporters would go for it

 

Oh and don't tell me the 3% shareholding isn't worth anything because it is. IF the club was to be sold in the future or the club became successful it would be worth every penny

 

For me, it would be an absolute nonsense to ditch the 3%, we shouldn't throw it away 

 

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In my humble opinion, there is a benign coup d'etat going on here. Trust membership will increase from the pool of supporters who approve of the current regime and it will decrease amongst those people opposed to the current regime. The Trust will become a supportive entity of the owner. PTB may well become the representative body for disgruntled fans. 

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18 minutes ago, tGWB said:

 

From memory, I believe the monies to buy the 3% shareholding came from the pockets of our very own supporters

 

I have £200,000 in mind, not an insignificant amount of money (underdog should be able to confirm without breaching any confidentiality arrangements)

 

I would suggest that if the club was as it is today and a brand new supporter Trust was formed and promoted itself as needing £200,000 to get the legal entitlement of a 3% shareholding and a seat on the club board, most supporters would go for it

 

Oh and don't tell me the 3% shareholding isn't worth anything because it is. IF the club was to be sold in the future or the club became successful it would be worth every penny

 

For me, it would be an absolute nonsense to ditch the 3%, we shouldn't throw it away 

 

its the extras with the 3%.....I remember the  Charlton (CAST) Trust saying to me last October " but its only 3%.." and then I told him the extras and he genuinely was impressed.

 

Right to appoint and remove our own club board director (the rep)

Equal parity voting at club board level

Right to be consulted and to vote if the business of OAFC is to discountinued.

 

I was £200K at the time. I believe the big charity star footy match was instrumental fund raiser.

 

I am glad you feel the share holding should not be ditched....the Trust itself is open for debate

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36 minutes ago, underdog said:

 

I was £200K at the time. I believe the big charity star footy match was instrumental fund raiser.

 

I am glad you feel the share holding should not be ditched....the Trust itself is open for debate


Call me old fashioned but . . . 

 

Cant see it being a big hit with our supporters chucking away £200k of their hard earned 🤦‍♂️

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2 hours ago, wiseowl said:

In my humble opinion, there is a benign coup d'etat going on here. Trust membership will increase from the pool of supporters who approve of the current regime and it will decrease amongst those people opposed to the current regime. The Trust will become a supportive entity of the owner. PTB may well become the representative body for disgruntled fans. 

Worded better than I and agreed

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2 hours ago, wiseowl said:

In my humble opinion, there is a benign coup d'etat going on here. Trust membership will increase from the pool of supporters who approve of the current regime and it will decrease amongst those people opposed to the current regime. The Trust will become a supportive entity of the owner. PTB may well become the representative body for disgruntled fans. 

 

11 minutes ago, underdog said:

Worded better than I and agreed

 

5 hours ago, unsworth blue said:

 

In all honesty, i think the shareholding has become an issue anyway and unless we hold a 51:49 shareholding like clubs do in Germany,  the Trust are powerless to effect positive change. 

 

through the years, the Trust has experienced regular mishaps and people jumping ship which has led to a great decline in confidence in it as a body. I do not think that the Trust representative on the Board has helped at all and i suspect many share my opinion. 

 

 

We need peace at our club or at least the platform for a fresh start between the club and supporters

 

We need to find a way . . . . . . . . . .

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18 minutes ago, tGWB said:

 

 

 

We need peace at our club or at least the platform for a fresh start between the club and supporters

 

We need to find a way . . . . . . . . . .

Agreed and i thought we had this in Jan 2018. New owner new start.

 

Then again in may 2019.owner appoints club board, admits has made mistakes issues the 3-5yr plan.

 

Trust chair statement this week touched on the "players" (off the field) and if only we could work together....who knows

 

 

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23 hours ago, singe said:

I'm not sure they do own any, do they? 

I didn't think the club owned land either, but what other tangible assets are there that are worth £1,675,693? I was under the impression Brass Bank own the land and the stands. The stands or equipment they use, certainly aren't worth that amount. What did they dispose of that was worth nearly £3m? Is that The North Stand?

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5 hours ago, underdog said:

with the FLG, the 51% was discussed.....The other option is money, Trust raises money and buys more shares.....there is also the Corney shares?.

 

 

Corney's shares have been drastically diluted though.

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12 minutes ago, al_bro said:

I didn't think the club owned land either, but what other tangible assets are there that are worth £1,675,693? I was under the impression Brass Bank own the land and the stands. The stands or equipment they use, certainly aren't worth that amount. What did they dispose of that was worth nearly £3m? Is that The North Stand?

I have no recollection either of club owning land...being not clued up is the land registry a place to start?

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22 minutes ago, al_bro said:

I didn't think the club owned land either, but what other tangible assets are there that are worth £1,675,693? 

 

Assume Shahed is using transfermarkt.com too.

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57 minutes ago, al_bro said:

I didn't think the club owned land either, but what other tangible assets are there that are worth £1,675,693? I was under the impression Brass Bank own the land and the stands. The stands or equipment they use, certainly aren't worth that amount. What did they dispose of that was worth nearly £3m? Is that The North Stand?

 

34 minutes ago, jsslatic said:

 

Assume Shahed is using transfermarkt.com too.

It was originally booked as £3m :goggle:
Inerestingly, there is new Hire Purchase/Fianance leases to the value of £1.63m. Wonder f that is related.

The only new things we know of is thepitch light gantry and new heating system but no where near £1.6m worth. It did cross my mind it was player contracts, but I'd imagine that fell under Trade Creditors.

Bit of a mystery.

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