How come we're not scoring?

[LeylandLatic]

No, I think he brings a touch of class and experience to the side. And I've seen more to his game this year than I did last year (and I wasn't one of his knockers then). He's leaner and fitter this year. And class shows through.

 

Fitter? Yes, but still unable to last a full game imo. Better coming off the bench like he did against Swansea for me. I've liked the look of Smalley from what i've seen so far and pace on BOTH wings is the way to go imo. That's what most teams have who do well in this division. very few teams in our League can cope with pace and if we have 2 wingers who are willing to pick the ball up wide and run at the defence it will only be beneficial to the likes of Kilkenny, Davies and Rickets who will get more space in the centre to work with.

[Hometownclub]

I thought we were poor yesterday against what I'm sure will be mid-table opposition.

I have no complaints about the defeat they created fewer chances than us but took one and were very unlucky when they hit the post as well.

We had more possession overall but in the final third we had no cutting edge.

 

I thought Davies had another good game, he has real quality and single handedly created an open goal for Smalley to somehow miss from 1 yard, you really can't afford to miss chances like that at any level.

 

I thought Eardley put some great crosses over today and had easily his best game of the season.

 

I do not and never will boo players or the team ever, but people are seeing something in Michael Ricketts that is quite clearly escaping me. I'm not convinced that his apparent lack of fitness is the reason either, the player I have seen playing for us this season and pre-season just doesn't have the quality some seem to think he has/had.

 

We really missed Allott, I don't know what was wrong with him but I hope its nothing serious and that he will be back very soon, I dont think we would have lost yesterday had he played.

 

Kilkenny had a very poor game for me he looked tired and largely ineffective.

 

Defensively I'm still very worried about us, we have two big centre halfs who are good in the air and yet we conceded the goal and another very unlucky effort which came back off a post to headers from crosses.

 

I thought the young on loan left back Bertrand looked out of his depth at this level, he failed several times to stop crosses coming over including for the goal and the other near miss both from his wing although I appreciate he is not solely to blame. His distribution was awful and he repeatedly gave the ball away, he is just a young lad playing his first game for us so I'm sure he can/will improve, but quite frankly on that performance he will need to.

 

I think Liddell this season will be better used off the bench, he does have quality in his game but as the Swansea game showed he can be very effective when introduced from the bench, I dont think his legs are up to 90 mins anymore.

 

The young lads Smalley and Wolfy are both good prospects for the future but I think we need to get Hughes up to match fitness ASAP in order to give us something more from the bench in games like yesterday.

[RoytonBlueLad]

Why have we got Kilkenny playing deep alongside Kalala. JP can sit deep, make the tackles and NK can play further forward. If we wanted a midfielder to sit deep and take the ball off the centre backs we might as well have kept Wellens!

 

I think we've got the right players. It's just a case of fitting everyone in now.

[oafckev]

I thought that Rovers looked more like a team whilst we were a team full of strangers not knowing where people would want the ball or what moves they were going to make. I can see already that Ricketts is gonna be the boo boy's favourite victim this season as he's not what the fans want. I think you have to understand he's a totally different player to Davies who can chase the ball down whilst Ricketts hopefully will be the player who can hold the ball up and set up a goal like he tried to at Carlisle.

I think we needed to bring Smalley on about 10mins earlier as I dont think Liddells crosses were any good. I couldn't believe he missed that shot though?! But I'd rather it was him as he's got the excuse of being young If it were Ricketts that would of missed I think he would be being slated to hell today!

[boboafc]

even the red scum down the road with all those players carn't score goals too ,at the mo its 0-0v spurs

[sausageroll]

even the red scum down the road with all those players carn't score goals too ,at the mo its 0-0v spurs

Did you have to go and say that bob? 1-0 now

[Londonlatics]

I thought we were poor yesterday against what I'm sure will be mid-table opposition. AGREED

I have no complaints about the defeat they created fewer chances than us but took one and were very unlucky when they hit the post as well.

We had more possession overall but in the final third we had no cutting edge. AGREED BUT THE PROBLEM WASN'T WITH FORWARDS IT WAS WITH SERVICE TO THEM

 

I thought Davies had another good game, he has real quality and single handedly created an open goal for Smalley to somehow miss from 1 yard, you really can't afford to miss chances like that at any level. AGREED

 

nOW WE HAVE THE DISAGREEMENTS

 

I thought Eardley put some great crosses over today and had easily his best game of the season. I THOUGHT HE WAS POSSIBLY WORST PLAYER ON PITCH. DEFENSIVELY HE LOOKS NERVOUS, BUT THE MAIN PROBLEM IS GOING FORWARD. HIS CROSSES ARE LONG PUNTS INTO BOX THAT ARE EASILY DEFENDED AND HE DOESN'T COME TO HELP LIDDELL AT ALL DOWN RIGHT HAND SIDE OR OVERLAP EVER. HIS DELIVERY FROM DEEP IS ATROCIOUS AND ALWAYS AT HEAD HEIGHT LEVEL TO FORWARDS MAKING IT ALMOST IMPOSSIBLY TO CONTROL OR DO ANYTHING WITH. NEVER SEEMS ABLE TO FIND FEET OR EVEN CHEST HEIGHT SO FORWARD CAN HOLD UP - HE'S YOUNG AND HOPEFULLY GET BETTER BUT HE WAS AGAIN V. POOR YESTERDAY

 

I do not and never will boo players or the team ever, but people are seeing something in Michael Ricketts that is quite clearly escaping me. I'm not convinced that his apparent lack of fitness is the reason either, the player I have seen playing for us this season and pre-season just doesn't have the quality some seem to think he has/had.

 

YOU MUST BE COMPLETELY BLIND BUT THEN AGAIN YOUR VIEW IS SHARED BY OTHERS - BUT NOT ME. I THINK HE HAS MORE TALENT THAN MOST OF THE TEAM PUT TOGETHER BUT DOESN'T GO CHARGING AROUND ALL DAY AND CAN AT TIMES LOOKS UNINTERESTED BUT I THINK THIS IS MISLEADING. HIS TOUCH IS EXCELLENT; AND HIS MOVEMENT IS FAR ABOVE THIS LEVEL - THE PROBLEM I SEE IS GETTING QUALITY IN MIDFIELD TO SLIP IT INTO HIS FEET OR DOWN THE CHANNELS. IF YOU LOOKED AT MATCH AT CARLILSE THE ONLY AVENUE THAT LOOKED LIKED OPENING UP THEIR DEFENSE WAS THRO RICKETTS WHO IS SHERINGHAM LIKE IN THE HOLE BEHIND FORWARDS WHERE HE LIKES TO GO. IN QUALITY HE IS TWICE THE PLAYER DAVIES IS; BUT I THINK THEY WORK WELL TOGETHER AND COULD BE A VERY GOOD PARTNERSHIP - TRY WATCHING THE MOVEMENT AND TOUCH AND YOU MIGHT SEE WHY HE SINGLE HANDEDLY GOT BOLTON PROMOTED TO THE PREMIER LEAGUE

 

We really missed Allott, I don't know what was wrong with him but I hope its nothing serious and that he will be back very soon, I dont think we would have lost yesterday had he played.

 

CAN'T MAKE MY MIND UP WHO IS MORE AVERAGE - KALALA OR ALLOTT - COME BACK WELLENS ALL IS FORGIVEN!!

 

Kilkenny had a very poor game for me he looked tired and largely ineffective. AGREED

 

Defensively I'm still very worried about us, we have two big centre halfs who are good in the air and yet we conceded the goal and another very unlucky effort which came back off a post to headers from crosses. GREGAN LACKS PACE BUT APART FROM THAT VERY GOOD PLAYER/THOMPSON; JURY OUT

 

I thought the young on loan left back Bertrand looked out of his depth at this level, he failed several times to stop crosses coming over including for the goal and the other near miss both from his wing although I appreciate he is not solely to blame. His distribution was awful and he repeatedly gave the ball away, he is just a young lad playing his first game for us so I'm sure he can/will improve, but quite frankly on that performance he will need to.

 

UNBELIEVEABLY OPINION; HE WAS MY MAN OF MATCH; i DONT' KNOW WHAT YOU LOOK FOR IN PLAYERS BUT BERTRAND AND RICKETTS ARE HEAD AND SHOULDERS ABOVE THE OTHERS IN NATURAL ABILITY. HE HAD A VERY GOOD DEBUT. ADMITTEDLY FOR FIRST 10MINS OR SO; HE WASN'T TIGHT ENOUGH TO PIPE ON THEIR RIGHT HAND SIDE BUT HE SOON SORTED THIS OUT. HIS TOUCH WAS EXCELLENT; HE PLAYED SOME GREAT INSIDE BALLS TO FRONT TWO (SOMETHING EARDLEY IS LOST TRYING TO DO) LOOKED TO GET FORWARD AND DELIVERED SOME OF BEST CROSSES INTO BOX (MOST CROSSES WERE VERY POOR YESTERDAY - WHEREAS HIS HAD WHIP ON THEM AND GOOD). DEFINATELY MAN OF MATCH . AND ALOT BETTER THAN GIDDINGS;

 

I think Liddell this season will be better used off the bench, he does have quality in his game but as the Swansea game showed he can be very effective when introduced from the bench, I dont think his legs are up to 90 mins anymore.

 

AGAIN LIDDELL, PLAYED WELL AND I THINK NEEDS TO STAY IN TEAM IN 442 FROM START; THE PROBLEM IS CENTRAL PAIRING; NOT CONVINCED THAT KK IS THE ANSWER TO ALL OUR PRAYS AND THEN YOU HAVE THE AVERAGE TWINS - ALLOTT AND KALALA?? TAKE YOUR PICK?

 

The young lads Smalley and Wolfy are both good prospects for the future but I think we need to get Hughes up to match fitness ASAP in order to give us something more from the bench in games like yesterday. HUGHES? DONT' START ME THERE - HASN'T PLAYED IN YEARS; YOU BETTER GET YOUR BOOTS ON

 

 

I can honestly say that I opinion is pretty much the direct opposite of everything you have said above (with few exceptions where I do agree). I respect your right to have a view but find your comments so far off the mark its embarrassing. I've added my comments to yours in capitals

[Hometownclub]

 

I can honestly say that I opinion is pretty much the direct opposite of everything you have said above (with few exceptions where I do agree). I respect your right to have a view but find your comments so far off the mark its embarrassing. I've added my comments to yours in capitals

 

We are both entitled to our opinions and thats what these sites are all about.

You are right your opinions are the direct opposite of everything I said but having read your comments against mine I've got to say I stand by everything I said in my original post.

 

My opinions on Ricketts will be subject to change when he does something to change them:-

He isn't scoring goals (bar one penalty).

He isn't making goals.

He isn't winning the ball.

For a big man he isn't even putting himself about in games and being a handful for defenders to cope with.

His lack of self control (getting booked in every game, and should have been sent off against Swansea when he quite clearly pushed the referee away).

He is also a lazy player who does not put massive effort or enthusiasm into his game (he chased back once against Bristol Rovers).

It's along while since he showed his "good" form playing for Bolton and has had numerous clubs since (Leeds, Burnley and more) since who have also decided not to retain his services.

I would love him to come good and prove me wrong but he just isn't doing that at the moment, I just dont rate him even at League 1 level.

Having said all that I would never boo him or slag him off during a game as above all else I'm a Latics fan and will always support the team no matter what.

 

How you can think Bertrand was MoM is amazing to me, he gave the ball straight to Bristol players at least 3 or 4 times, the goal came from a cross after their player had turned him inside out before crossing unchallenged, the header they had against the post also came from a cross from his wing again after their player had beaten him.

Given these facts what must he have done in your eyes to warrent the MoM.

I did state in my original post that he was just a young lad playing his first game for us and would improve.

 

I still also stand by my comments about Eardley, best game for us this season he put some great crosses over including the one Chris Taylor ballooned over the bar with a header.

 

How you thought Eardley had stinker and yet Bertrand was MoM I will never know.

 

Anyway thats my twopenneth and my defence of my original post, which was based purely on my thoughts and my summary of the Bristol Rovers game.

I'm sure you will stand by your comments too, but thats what football and opinions are all about.

[Londonlatics]

We are both entitled to our opinions and thats what these sites are all about.

You are right your opinions are the direct opposite of everything I said but having read your comments against mine I've got to say I stand by everything I said in my original post.

 

My opinions on Ricketts will be subject to change when he does something to change them:-

He isn't scoring goals (bar one penalty).

He isn't making goals.

He isn't winning the ball.

For a big man he isn't even putting himself about in games and being a handful for defenders to cope with.

His lack of self control (getting booked in every game, and should have been sent off against Swansea when he quite clearly pushed the referee away).

He is also a lazy player who does not put massive effort or enthusiasm into his game (he chased back once against Bristol Rovers).

It's along while since he showed his "good" form playing for Bolton and has had numerous clubs since (Leeds, Burnley and more) since who have also decided not to retain his services.

I would love him to come good and prove me wrong but he just isn't doing that at the moment, I just dont rate him even at League 1 level.

Having said all that I would never boo him or slag him off during a game as above all else I'm a Latics fan and will always support the team no matter what.

 

How you can think Bertrand was MoM is amazing to me, he gave the ball straight to Bristol players at least 3 or 4 times, the goal came from a cross after their player had turned him inside out before crossing unchallenged, the header they had against the post also came from a cross from his wing again after their player had beaten him.

Given these facts what must he have done in your eyes to warrent the MoM.

I did state in my original post that he was just a young lad playing his first game for us and would improve.

 

I still also stand by my comments about Eardley, best game for us this season he put some great crosses over including the one Chris Taylor ballooned over the bar with a header.

 

How you thought Eardley had stinker and yet Bertrand was MoM I will never know.

 

Anyway thats my twopenneth and my defence of my original post, which was based purely on my thoughts and my summary of the Bristol Rovers game.

I'm sure you will stand by your comments too, but thats what football and opinions are all about.

 

I guess its a question of styles - you like your football 100 MPH, blood sweat and tears being given out; pumping the balls constantly into the box in the odd hope that someone will get a lucky knockdown and we will score - Dave Bassett/Allardyce and the like will love you.

 

for me I look for technical quality in a player and HATE to see the ball in the air full stop - save for high quality crosses and the occasional ball into space over the top.

 

I have a worry thats how shez likes to play having seen the long punts from the back so far this season. Personally I like to see football played the way Swansea and Bristol have played it so far this year at BP. Balls being played to feet and not just from one side of pitch to the other but in triangles going down the pitch.

 

Eardley hasn't got the quality, from what I've seen so far to do this. Kalala, Allott haven't either.

 

In fact the only three players that have that level of technical ability are Kilkenny, Ricketts, and Bertrand from what I've seen - so for me everything should be buiit around them.

 

Davies is great - gives you the get out ball 'occasionally' over the top and has the pace and industry to lead the line all day.

 

Ricketts biggest weakness is his size because everyone expects him to be a leading the line traditional front man centre forward and he ISN'T!!

 

He's a technically strong player that can make things happen that others cannot. Great vision; good with both feet, good with back to goal - which Davies isn't, can hold ball up (IF its played into feet or chest ).

 

the sooner we play to our best players strengths the sooner the fans will see a coehesive unit.

 

If Shez expects MR to be a front man flicking ball on all day; he should have signed a bean pole like Brian Deane or the like.

 

but your right; have your opinion; but ultimately I think its down to the type of football you like to see - and remember you get the players you deserve ultimately!!!

[Inspiral_Carpet]

I guess its a question of styles - you like your football 100 MPH, blood sweat and tears being given out; pumping the balls constantly into the box in the odd hope that someone will get a lucky knockdown and we will score - Dave Bassett/Allardyce and the like will love you.

 

for me I look for technical quality in a player and HATE to see the ball in the air full stop - save for high quality crosses and the occasional ball into space over the top.

 

I have a worry thats how shez likes to play having seen the long punts from the back so far this season. Personally I like to see football played the way Swansea and Bristol have played it so far this year at BP. Balls being played to feet and not just from one side of pitch to the other but in triangles going down the pitch.

 

Eardley hasn't got the quality, from what I've seen so far to do this. Kalala, Allott haven't either.

 

In fact the only three players that have that level of technical ability are Kilkenny, Ricketts, and Bertrand from what I've seen - so for me everything should be buiit around them.

 

Davies is great - gives you the get out ball 'occasionally' over the top and has the pace and industry to lead the line all day.

 

Ricketts biggest weakness is his size because everyone expects him to be a leading the line traditional front man centre forward and he ISN'T!!

 

He's a technically strong player that can make things happen that others cannot. Great vision; good with both feet, good with back to goal - which Davies isn't, can hold ball up (IF its played into feet or chest ).

 

the sooner we play to our best players strengths the sooner the fans will see a coehesive unit.

 

If Shez expects MR to be a front man flicking ball on all day; he should have signed a bean pole like Brian Deane or the like.

 

but your right; have your opinion; but ultimately I think its down to the type of football you like to see - and remember you get the players you deserve ultimately!!!

 

I guess then we will have to expect your opinions to be vastly different to most every week since Shez is moulding a team to play around the best player. Craig Davies, not Michael Ricketts.

 

Can't see myself where Htc is advocating that 100mph football is what he wants to see. I'd love to see us playing total football but as a realist, I get my "fix" by watching La Liga on Sky.

 

You've made your mind up that Ricketts is untouchable. I agree he shows glimpses of class and played very well at Carlisle. He was less effective on Saturday. Now why was that? Oh yes, we were playing lots of nice triangular football and playing to create openings. Unfortunately, Ricketts didn't do what you laud him for since he was rarely available for the ball to be played into his feet. He didn't have a bad game but nor was he the World-beater that you seem to have created in your head. Because he wasn't available, the ball was sent out wide and was lumped in. As Htc has pointed out, Eardley got some good crosses in. More than our right winger anyway.

 

Contrary to what you are saying, Ricketts is excellent in the air and has the class to time his jumps to get the necessary flick-ons. On Saturday though, he chose more to cry "foul" as opposed to breaking free and winning the ball.

 

I like the guy. I think he has class and has the potential to be great. Unfortunately, you are seeing him through rose-tinted spectacles and you are building your opinion of the game solely on the basis of one man and what you think he can do. Largely because he did it in the past when he played well enough to represent England.

 

You are welcome to the view but as I've said, you were on your own last week and also this. Consequently, when I see your quote "I respect your right to have a view but find your comments so far off the mark its embarrassing", it does make me laugh.

[Hometownclub]

I guess its a question of styles - you like your football 100 MPH, blood sweat and tears being given out; pumping the balls constantly into the box in the odd hope that someone will get a lucky knockdown and we will score - Dave Bassett/Allardyce and the like will love you.

 

In fact the only three players that have that level of technical ability are Kilkenny, Ricketts, and Bertrand from what I've seen - so for me everything should be buiit around them.

 

Ricketts biggest weakness is his size because everyone expects him to be a leading the line traditional front man centre forward and he ISN'T!!

 

He's a technically strong player that can make things happen that others cannot. Great vision; good with both feet, good with back to goal - which Davies isn't, can hold ball up (IF its played into feet or chest ).

 

but your right; have your opinion; but ultimately I think its down to the type of football you like to see - and remember you get the players you deserve ultimately!!!

 

I dont come on here to argue with anybody, I was only expressing my opinions my thoughts and observations about the Bristol Rovers game.

 

How do you deduce from any comments I have ever made on here (in over 500 posts) that I like my football at 100mph and am a fan of the long ball game ala Alladyce/Bassett.

Those assumptions could not be further from the truth, there was nothing in any of my posts on this thread to suggest that to be the case either.

I hate the way Alladyce and Ronnie Moore's teams play football and would rather not watch atall than see that type of game.

 

My not being a massive fan of Ricketts is based entirely on what I have seen of him, I dont see this fantastic technically gifted player with great vision that you do (where is the evidence of this), I have already posted my thoughts on him from what I have seen on the previous thread, but why has he been rejected by so many clubs if he is so good.

 

You have assessed Bertrand as one of only three players at the club technically gifted enough to play the "total football" you want on the basis of 90 mins of football. (Ricketts and Kilkenny being the others).

We are in League 1 and while that doesn't exclude us playing good passing football (which is what I like to see) we have to be realistic enough realise that we could not afford a team full of Kilkenny's and other players of his ilk, I consider us very fortunate to have got him atall.

 

I would like to see a poll on here with regard to who fans prefer or would like to keep if we had to get rid of Ricketts or Davies. (I would keep Davies every time).

Edited August 27, 2007 by Hometownclub

[leeslover]

I don't think we are using Ricketts to his strength - just because he is big, we are using him with his back to goal as a hold-up player. I remember him at Noblot more as a player running onto the ball. That said I still thought he was one of our best players yesterday.

[Londonlatics]

Comments in capitals next to yours:

I guess then we will have to expect your opinions to be vastly different to most every week since Shez is moulding a team to play around the best player. Craig Davies, not Michael Ricketts. I THINK DAVIES IS A GOOD PLAYER AND WILL CERTAINLY PLAY HIGHER; HOPEFULLY WITH OAFC IN CHAMPIONSHIP AS OPPOSED TO SELLING HIM TO A CHAMPIONSHIP CLUB. I DONT' THINK HE'S THE BEST PLAYER HOWEVER

 

Can't see myself where Htc is advocating that 100mph football is what he wants to see. I'd love to see us playing total football but as a realist, I get my "fix" by watching La Liga on Sky. IF WE WERE PLAYING TOTAL FOOTBALL WE'D HAVE RONALDINHO UP FRONT AND DECO IN THE MIDDLE; SO THATS NOT GOING TO HAPPEN; BUT ALOT OF TEAMS PLAY GOOD FOOTBALL; CREWE HAVE BEEN DOING IT FOR YEARS UNDER GRADI AND UNTIL RECENTLY HOLDING THEIR OWN REGULARLY IN CHAMPIONSHIP WITH LITTLE MONEY. BLACKPOOL UNDER MCMAHON DID IT REGULARLY AT THIS LEVEL SO IT IS ACHIEVEABLE. LAST YEAR WE PLAYED SCUNTHORPE OFF THE PITCH AT THEIR PATCH BY PLAYING TO FEET FOR 90MINS HOWEVER THIS SEASON

 

You've made your mind up that Ricketts is untouchable. I agree he shows glimpses of class and played very well at Carlisle. He was less effective on Saturday. Now why was that? Oh yes, we were playing lots of nice triangular football and playing to create openings. Unfortunately, Ricketts didn't do what you laud him for since he was rarely available for the ball to be played into his feet. He didn't have a bad game but nor was he the World-beater that you seem to have created in your head. Because he wasn't available, the ball was sent out wide and was lumped in. As Htc has pointed out, Eardley got some good crosses in. More than our right winger anyway.

 

RICKETTS WAS AVERAGE ON SATURDAY; YOU ARE RIGHT IN SAYING THAT I RATE HIM HIGHLY BUT I'M NOT DELUDED; HE WAS OK VS BRISTOL; MAINLY BECAUSE HE NEVER GOT ON THE BALL BECAUSE IT WAS FLYING AROUND ABOVE HIS HEAD FOR 90MINS; KK HAD A POOR GAME FOR VARIOUS REASONS AND EARDLEY WAS POOR. YOU SEEM TO BE SAYING THAT HE WAS BETTER THAN LIDDELL BUT AGAIN i DISAGREE; I THOUGHT LIDDELL WAS STRONG AND UNLUCKY TO BE SUBSTITUTED.

 

Contrary to what you are saying, Ricketts is excellent in the air and has the class to time his jumps to get the necessary flick-ons. On Saturday though, he chose more to cry "foul" as opposed to breaking free and winning the ball. MY POINT WASN'T THAT RICKETTS ISN'T GOOD IN THE AIR; MY POINT WAS THAT IS ONLY A SMALL PART OF HIS GAME; YOU CAN SIGNED PLENTY OF BEAN POLES IN LOWER LEAGUES THAT CAN BACK IN AND FLICK ON; WHY BUY RICKETTS IF ALL YOU WANT FOR A FORWARD IS THAT - YOU BUY/TAKE RICKETTS TO OPEN UP DEFENCES AND THE WAY THE TEAM WAS PLAYING SAT HE CAN'T DO THAT BECAUSE HE WASN'T GOT ON THE BALL ENOUGH.

 

SO YOU HAVE A CHOICE. YOU EITHER IMPROVE YOUR PLAY TO HIM. DECIDE YOU WANT TO PLAY A DIFFERENT WAY AND DROP HIM, OR YOU DROP HIM DEEPER IN AN ATTACKING MIDFIELD POSITION AND ALLOW HIM TO CONTROL THINGS THERE. FOR ME I WANT HIM UP FRONT BUT PRESTON PLAYED HIM BEHIND FRONT TWO LAST SEASON AND THAT WORKED FOR A PERIOD.

 

I like the guy. I think he has class and has the potential to be great. Unfortunately, you are seeing him through rose-tinted spectacles and you are building your opinion of the game solely on the basis of one man and what you think he can do. Largely because he did it in the past when he played well enough to represent England.

 

You are welcome to the view but as I've said, you were on your own last week and also this. LAST WEEK HE WAS M OF MATCH NO DOUBT ABOUT THAT; BECAUSE HE WAS BROUGHT ONTO THE BALL ALOT MORE; AND IF IT WASN'T FOR YOUR BEST PLAYER DAVIES MISSING A SITTER AT CARLISLE WE WOULD HAVE PROBABLY WON THAT GAME. Consequently, when I see your quote "I respect your right to have a view but find your comments so far off the mark its embarrassing", it does make me laugh. THAT STATEMENT WASN'T RELATED SOLEY TO RICKETTS BY THE WAY; THE CONTRIBUTOR IN QUESTION ALSO SAID HE THOUGHT BERTRAND WAS POOR ( A POSITION i COMPLETELY DISAGREE WITH) AND THOUGHT EARDLEY WAS MAN OF MATCH - AND IF THATS A VIEW SHARED BY MOST FANS i'LL GET STEVIE WONDER TO COME AND TAKE MY TICKETS COS HE WILL SEE A BETTER GAME THAN ME

[Inspiral_Carpet]

Comments in capitals next to yours:

I guess then we will have to expect your opinions to be vastly different to most every week since Shez is moulding a team to play around the best player. Craig Davies, not Michael Ricketts. I THINK DAVIES IS A GOOD PLAYER AND WILL CERTAINLY PLAY HIGHER; HOPEFULLY WITH OAFC IN CHAMPIONSHIP AS OPPOSED TO SELLING HIM TO A CHAMPIONSHIP CLUB. I DONT' THINK HE'S THE BEST PLAYER HOWEVER

 

Can't see myself where Htc is advocating that 100mph football is what he wants to see. I'd love to see us playing total football but as a realist, I get my "fix" by watching La Liga on Sky. IF WE WERE PLAYING TOTAL FOOTBALL WE'D HAVE RONALDINHO UP FRONT AND DECO IN THE MIDDLE; SO THATS NOT GOING TO HAPPEN; BUT ALOT OF TEAMS PLAY GOOD FOOTBALL; CREWE HAVE BEEN DOING IT FOR YEARS UNDER GRADI AND UNTIL RECENTLY HOLDING THEIR OWN REGULARLY IN CHAMPIONSHIP WITH LITTLE MONEY. BLACKPOOL UNDER MCMAHON DID IT REGULARLY AT THIS LEVEL SO IT IS ACHIEVEABLE. LAST YEAR WE PLAYED SCUNTHORPE OFF THE PITCH AT THEIR PATCH BY PLAYING TO FEET FOR 90MINS HOWEVER THIS SEASON

 

You've made your mind up that Ricketts is untouchable. I agree he shows glimpses of class and played very well at Carlisle. He was less effective on Saturday. Now why was that? Oh yes, we were playing lots of nice triangular football and playing to create openings. Unfortunately, Ricketts didn't do what you laud him for since he was rarely available for the ball to be played into his feet. He didn't have a bad game but nor was he the World-beater that you seem to have created in your head. Because he wasn't available, the ball was sent out wide and was lumped in. As Htc has pointed out, Eardley got some good crosses in. More than our right winger anyway.

 

RICKETTS WAS AVERAGE ON SATURDAY; YOU ARE RIGHT IN SAYING THAT I RATE HIM HIGHLY BUT I'M NOT DELUDED; HE WAS OK VS BRISTOL; MAINLY BECAUSE HE NEVER GOT ON THE BALL BECAUSE IT WAS FLYING AROUND ABOVE HIS HEAD FOR 90MINS; KK HAD A POOR GAME FOR VARIOUS REASONS AND EARDLEY WAS POOR. YOU SEEM TO BE SAYING THAT HE WAS BETTER THAN LIDDELL BUT AGAIN i DISAGREE; I THOUGHT LIDDELL WAS STRONG AND UNLUCKY TO BE SUBSTITUTED.

 

Contrary to what you are saying, Ricketts is excellent in the air and has the class to time his jumps to get the necessary flick-ons. On Saturday though, he chose more to cry "foul" as opposed to breaking free and winning the ball. MY POINT WASN'T THAT RICKETTS ISN'T GOOD IN THE AIR; MY POINT WAS THAT IS ONLY A SMALL PART OF HIS GAME; YOU CAN SIGNED PLENTY OF BEAN POLES IN LOWER LEAGUES THAT CAN BACK IN AND FLICK ON; WHY BUY RICKETTS IF ALL YOU WANT FOR A FORWARD IS THAT - YOU BUY/TAKE RICKETTS TO OPEN UP DEFENCES AND THE WAY THE TEAM WAS PLAYING SAT HE CAN'T DO THAT BECAUSE HE WASN'T GOT ON THE BALL ENOUGH.

 

SO YOU HAVE A CHOICE. YOU EITHER IMPROVE YOUR PLAY TO HIM. DECIDE YOU WANT TO PLAY A DIFFERENT WAY AND DROP HIM, OR YOU DROP HIM DEEPER IN AN ATTACKING MIDFIELD POSITION AND ALLOW HIM TO CONTROL THINGS THERE. FOR ME I WANT HIM UP FRONT BUT PRESTON PLAYED HIM BEHIND FRONT TWO LAST SEASON AND THAT WORKED FOR A PERIOD.

 

I like the guy. I think he has class and has the potential to be great. Unfortunately, you are seeing him through rose-tinted spectacles and you are building your opinion of the game solely on the basis of one man and what you think he can do. Largely because he did it in the past when he played well enough to represent England.

 

You are welcome to the view but as I've said, you were on your own last week and also this. LAST WEEK HE WAS M OF MATCH NO DOUBT ABOUT THAT; BECAUSE HE WAS BROUGHT ONTO THE BALL ALOT MORE; AND IF IT WASN'T FOR YOUR BEST PLAYER DAVIES MISSING A SITTER AT CARLISLE WE WOULD HAVE PROBABLY WON THAT GAME. Consequently, when I see your quote "I respect your right to have a view but find your comments so far off the mark its embarrassing", it does make me laugh. THAT STATEMENT WASN'T RELATED SOLEY TO RICKETTS BY THE WAY; THE CONTRIBUTOR IN QUESTION ALSO SAID HE THOUGHT BERTRAND WAS POOR ( A POSITION i COMPLETELY DISAGREE WITH) AND THOUGHT EARDLEY WAS MAN OF MATCH - AND IF THATS A VIEW SHARED BY MOST FANS i'LL GET STEVIE WONDER TO COME AND TAKE MY TICKETS COS HE WILL SEE A BETTER GAME THAN ME

 

You are missing the point. My opinion as to who the better player is doesn't count. The only man that matters is Shez. He's decided so far to play to Davies' strengths and utilise Ricketts to support that. He's probably basing that on what he sees in training - something I don't see and I'm guessing, nor do you.

 

Second half at Carlisle and the majority of Saturday's match we played the same way. In one, you give Ricketts MOM and in the next game say he's average. This isn't down to him though is it!?

 

Regarding the Eardley v Bertrand debate, clearly that is down to opinion. Eardley played a few bad balls but for me, was involved more; defended well and looked solid. He showed he was more of a winger than our right winger too in my opinion. Bertrand showed excellent glimpses of what he can do but was at fault for a couple of crosses coming in (one of which lead to their goal and the other where they hit the woodwork) and misplaced several passes when under no pressure. Not going to write him off but neither am I going to give him accolades that he doesn't deserve.

 

Again, you are looking at the guy's credentials and using that as a basis for him being an integral part of the team. Maybe he will be and I certainly wouldn't discount him from going on to being a star for us. I certainly wouldn't say he had a great game though on Saturday.

 

You clearly believe you know far more than the average fan though (and Manager; Coach; Players etc.) but you'll have to admit, I type pretty well for someone with the eysight of Stevie Wonder. I'm clearly not on my own though since I'd reckon 95% on here would rate Davies higher than Ricketts. As for Eardley v Bertrand based on Saturday's performance, it would probably be siginificantly in favour of the Welshmen and that's based on my reading of posts on here and other Latics Messageboards.

 

Clearly we know nowt.

[BigfinLatic]

A couple of comments...

 

Fistly... KK was miles off the pace yesterday, an obvious symptom of his now reveale injury and his long distance travels, get him rested and back when he is fully fit... what he is not doing, and what we desperately need him to do, is take players out of the game, viua skill or passing, all he is doing at the moment is giving it simple - allott and JP can do this, and they add far more energy to the team.... I want KK to be in the team, and I hope that he is just carrying a niggle, and the flair and skill we saw 3 years agao has not been coached out of him by premiership coaches wanting him to do the simple things in the prem/champ....

 

The striker issue - for me, Rovers although not as good a team as us, got thier tactics spot on, and outsmarted shez... our game is made on pace and getting behind teams, however, rovers played sooo soooo deep that this was impossible... and absolutely stumped us... they had obviously watched the first half hour of swansea and realised that that was the last thing they wanted... Ricketts and davies got very frustrated, as every time they got the ball there was 8 players between themselves and the net - an with our continuing adversion to long shots, this was a big problem...

 

This worries me, as think we will do well against teams attacking us - ie Swansea... but the lower teams (as always) who defend deep could continue to cause us problems.... shez needs to sort this out tactically... and the simple solution is we need someone who has skill, can pass , and will run with the ball at thier feet in attacking positions... step forward a fully fit KK, who is not playing uselessly infornt of the defence...

 

Davies was ok today but his touch was terrible, Ricketts was ok, but needs better service - he is not a target man, and supporters need to stop being so deluded and unterstand he needs balls to his feet... we also need a box based sriker... who can sniff out chances in apcked boxes.... step forward Mr Hughes....

 

we will get it right... i'm still sure of that...

Edited August 27, 2007 by BigfinLatic

[Londonlatics]

A couple of comments...

 

Fistly... KK was miles off the pace yesterday, an obvious symptom of his now reveale injury and his long distance travels, get him rested and back when he is fully fit... what he is not doing, and what we desperately need him to do, is take players out of the game, viua skill or passing, all he is doing at the moment is giving it simple - allott and JP can do this, and they add far more energy to the team.... I want KK to be in the team, and I hope that he is just carrying a niggle, and the flair and skill we saw 3 years agao has not been coached out of him by premiership coaches wanting him to do the simple things in the prem/champ....

 

The striker issue - for me, Rovers although not as good a team as us, got thier tactics spot on, and outsmarted shez... our game is made on pace and getting behind teams, however, rovers played sooo soooo deep that this was impossible... and absolutely stumped us... they had obviously watched the first half hour of swansea and realised that that was the last thing they wanted... Ricketts and davies got very frustrated, as every time they got the ball there was 8 players between themselves and the net - an with our continuing adversion to long shots, this was a big problem...

 

This worries me, as think we will do well against teams attacking us - ie Swansea... but the lower teams (as always) who defend deep could continue to cause us problems.... shez needs to sort this out tactically... and the simple solution is we need someone who has skill, can pass , and will run with the ball at thier feet in attacking positions... step forward a fully fit KK, who is not playing uselessly infornt of the defence...

 

Davies was ok today but his touch was terrible, Ricketts was ok, but needs better service - he is not a target man, and supporters need to stop being so deluded and unterstand he needs balls to his feet... we also need a box based sriker... who can sniff out chances in apcked boxes.... step forward Mr Hughes....

 

we will get it right... i'm still sure of that...

 

100% AGREE - couldn't have put it better myself.

[Londonlatics]

I think we have two main problems.

 

Firstly the main issue is the amount of new players that Shez has to integrate and it can't be easy. The starting 11 on Saturday had 7 of the 11 being new to the club at the start of this season.

 

Secondly with such new players its important that we play to a standard formation early on that all the guys can get used too. Obviously there are times when that needs to be changed but to start with we need some consistency and this is where I think Shez has shot himself in foot a little.

 

I'm not a 100% convinced that Shez knows his best team or formation and changing things around in virtually every match hasn't helped settle the team.

 

 

For me looking at the current players I'd probably set the team up in the following way: presuming all fit players:

 

 

CROSSLEY, LOMAX, STAM, THOMPSON, BERTRAND, LIDDELL, GREGAN, RICKETTS, KILKENNY, DAVIES, HUGHES.

 

FOR ME I THINK THAT WE NEED TO STRENGTH MIDFIELD CONSIDERABLY. i'D PLAY A NARROW DIAMOND FORMATION WHICH REQUIRES BOTH LOMAX AND BERTRAND TO GET FORWARD MORE. I'D HAVE GREGAN HOLDING AS A DEFENSIVE MIDFIELDER; BUT ONE WHO CAN PASS FORWARD TO RICKETTS AT THE FRONT OF THE DIAMOND; PLAYING JUST BEHIND THE FRONT TWO. I'D HAVE LIDDELL AND RIGHT WORKING WITH LOMAX AND KILKENNY ON THE LEFT SIDE DROPPING WHEN OPPOSITION ARE IN POSSESSION AND SUPPORTING BERTRAND BUT WITH FREEDOM TO COME INSIDE WHEN WE HAVE POSSESSSION AND PLAY MORE CLOSELY WITH RICKETTS.

 

UP FRONT i'D HAVE DAVIES RUNNING IN BEHIND WITH HUGHES A CENTRAL FIXTURE RIGHT UP TOP.

 

AT THE BACK i HOPE THAT STAM AND THOMPSON CAN PROVE TO BE GOOD ENOUGH AND THIS IS MY ONLY AREA OF WORRY BUT THE REST OF THE TEAM WOULD HAVE ALOT BETTER BALANCE; AND WOULD PLAY TO WHAT I BELIEVE ARE THE SQUADS STRENGTHS. WE'D ALSO HAVE TO PLAY ALOT MORE PASSING GAME WITH THIS FORMATION AND HAVE SOME REAL CREATIVITY.

 

ALSO ANSWERS A PREVIOUS CONTRIBUTORS WORRIES THAT TEAMS WILL SIT DEEP AGAINST US. WITH THIS TEAM/FORMATION LOTS OF OPTIONS TO COUNTERRACT THOSE PROBLEMS.

[leeslover]

I also believe that Shez hasn't quite settled on his formation and line-up yet, as I said elsewhere I think the late signing of Kilkenny has shaken up his plans, and not necessarily for the better. Who in the world would ever have thought we'd start of with Allott on the right? I'm not having it though that Ricketts needs to play midfield. He needs to be on the end of our attacks, not in the middle of them. Davies should be there to make space by going wide or deep, running with the ball etc.

[Gemma06]

Fitter? Yes, but still unable to last a full game imo. Better coming off the bench like he did against Swansea for me. I've liked the look of Smalley from what i've seen so far and pace on BOTH wings is the way to go imo. That's what most teams have who do well in this division. very few teams in our League can cope with pace and if we have 2 wingers who are willing to pick the ball up wide and run at the defence it will only be beneficial to the likes of Kilkenny, Davies and Rickets who will get more space in the centre to work with.

 

Pace is all well and good but neither Taylor nor Smalley can consistantly put decent balls into the box and that is what wingers are there for. Liddell is better starting the game and then if things want changing either put him up front of take him off and put Smalley/Taylor both of whom will be able to exploit tired legs with their pace. A lot of people were saying at the game that Liddell gives it back to Eardley too much but thats because it seems to take an eternity for the ball to get out to him and if Eardley doesn't then go on the overlap that leaves Liddell with two players stood in front of him to block any crosses he attempts. We need to get the ball out to him earlier

[Londonlatics]

Pace is all well and good but neither Taylor nor Smalley can consistantly put decent balls into the box and that is what wingers are there for. Liddell is better starting the game and then if things want changing either put him up front of take him off and put Smalley/Taylor both of whom will be able to exploit tired legs with their pace. A lot of people were saying at the game that Liddell gives it back to Eardley too much but thats because it seems to take an eternity for the ball to get out to him and if Eardley doesn't then go on the overlap that leaves Liddell with two players stood in front of him to block any crosses he attempts. We need to get the ball out to him earlier

 

Again correct. Liddell isn't the problem, Eardley is. Liddell needs the ball to feet earlier and Eardley needs to bring it forward more; he's been sending it when hismarker is 20yrds off him. Get closer and send it into feet and then overlap more; I can hardly remember Eardley overlapping in first four matches.

 

Liddell like Ricketts is getting so much unfair criticism - very good player who is needed this season.

[BigfinLatic]

I'm not a 100% convinced that Shez knows his best team or formation and changing things around in virtually every match hasn't helped settle the team.

For me looking at the current players I'd probably set the team up in the following way: presuming all fit players:

CROSSLEY, LOMAX, STAM, THOMPSON, BERTRAND, LIDDELL, GREGAN, RICKETTS, KILKENNY, DAVIES, HUGHES.

 

I think this team is an interesting option, particularly the idea of playing Ricketts deeper.... this is where he played for Preston last season where people started to say he was getting back to good form, I just think at the moment he is going to get more and more frustrated up front, both by the supporters unfounded desire for him to be a target man - and the constant long ball barrage he gets from the team... would love to see what he does getting the ball withy space, just behind the front two...

 

Gregan in the middle i'm unsure about - not because I dont hink he can play there, far from it, just that I think he gives us far more at centre back, and JP or Allott could do this role just as well... Kilkenny plays too deep in the centre at the moment, so would love to see him told go and attack players coming in from the wing... not sure Bertrand is the solution at full back, but want to see more of the kid... and time will tell.... i'm still very, very unsure if we can have 2 small full backs in this division, and not continually concede from back post crosses....

 

... and of course, I would never have Liddell in my starting 11... especially if you have 2 big lumps like Ricketts and Gregan inside of him... need pace ont he wings...

[futchers briefs]

Glad to see sense prevailing this season with Lidds. The stick he got last year imo completely unjustified as is the stick Ricketts is/will receive this year ( i honestly think a lot of these negative/c r a p opinions on players comes from those (generally!!) who've never played the game before and can only see a one dimensional game.

Though i do have to type on this one ..Gregan midfield??????????????? imo not any more!!! Those days are surely loooonnngg behind him!!

If JP and KK (although not fully fit) can get over run, what chance would Greags have?

[sausageroll]

Sorry, just can't see Gregan in midfield. Not mobile enough. I suppose you can't rule anything out until youve tried it but really can't see that working well. The Ricketts position I could see working better. He knocked a great ball through to Taylor from that kind of area at Carlisle - unfortunately there was noone in the box to convert Taylor's subsequent centre. Cue Mr.Hughes but don't think we can heap to much expectation or pressure on him for at least a few weeks.

 

I guess the original question posed in this thread could be turned on its head - how come we're not keeping clean sheets? There can't be very many since we stuffed Forest at the start of the year. Don't want to bring up the whole Gregan debate again but there's still too many soft goals going in against us and we need to stop these if we are going to be in play-off or promotion contention.

[futchers briefs]

4 goals in 4 games.....we let 47 league goals in last year (46 games), 1 a game! Scunthorpe let in 35. We're not a million miles away at the mo defensively, as many have already stated, it's the other end we need to prioritise and get right!!

[cheshireblue]

What I noticed against Bristol was the amount of time Davies found himself out wide, usually on the right. trying to supply a cross. At times we had Davies, Liddell & Eardley all on the right & only Ricketts in the box. Agree that KK was missing for most of the game but with the travelling & injury that maybe understandable, in fact JP was sometimes further forward with KK simply picking the ball up from the defenders.

 

Whilst not scoring goals is a worry I do agree with Sheridan in that it was probably our best game for playing football and keeping hold of the ball. Against Swansea we hardly got a kick and at Carlisle only played for 45 minutes. If we are still not scoring or creating chances in 2 or 3 weeks then I would be more worried.

 

I also hope people get off Ricketts back. I had an idiot next to me on Saturday moaning and shouting abuse every time the ball came near him. For me he was our best player at Carlisle once he got moved from wide midfield. It seems these people only notice players if they run for every lost cause such as a Warne or a Dickov - it doesn't mean they are effective, just that they run about a lot to little effect. Play the ball to Ricketts feet and he can hold the ball up and bring others into the game, keep lumping it up in the air and he won't do much.

 

At the moment any decent cross only comes from the right as neither Taylor or the left full backs seems able to supply decent crosses on a regular basis. This makes our attack somewhat predictable.

 

On a plus side I do like the look of Smalley, whilst it is probably too early to throw him in as a starter he looks a decent sub who can make things happen - unlike Chris Hall.