Crossley

[wozz_oafc]

Rather than arguing over whether or not Crossley has cost us points here or there, or who boos him and who claps him, can anyone honestly say that despite our good defensive record they feel confident in him? I am not denying that Crossley has made some good saves, I don't know what it is exactly but its heart in mouth time whenever a cross from a set piece comes in or the opposition gets put through on goal. Someone mentioned above that we all prefered it when we had lutons 3rd choice keeper in goal and i tend to agree. If we offload Ricketts in January i would personally like some of the money spent on bringing in a new keeper.

[Davros]

Oh my oh my! Crossley granted not the greatest keeper to have graced the earth but bleedin hell what do you expect! Dya think shez can get David James or Robinson on loan?? Even these two would be jeered by some so called fans of this club!! Crossley made some decent saves, kept the back line in order and all in all did a good job... His kicking granted was wayward (in terrible conditions) which Shez so kindly pointed out to him in the first half by a rolicking!?! To me Crossley looks desperatley unfit via his recent injuries and not being able to have the time off he needed from his injury to recover! Crossley is all we have no good throwing a rookie in and there is no one in the loan market worth throwing money at.. Granted he aint the best but i for one praise him for stepping in and doing a half decent job whilst unfit and kernobs at the game doing nothing but slating him!

 

You can look at all the stats in the world but the reason for us not being in the top half of the table is because of how we play in the final third and the lack of composure in front of goal.. NOT NORMAN!

 

[jimsleftfoot]

I don't understand how it was luck that we didnt concede more than 1 goal on Sat. Despite Crossley looking dodgy I cannot say there was a chance that they had that looked like they should have scored. He did however make two good saves. As for the one when it was parried over the bar, well it was coming at some speed and the ball was wet. Many keepers would have probablly had parried the ball forward trying to catch it.... straight to the likes of Hayter.

 

As for Pogs, yes he does come for the ball but how many times does he miss it. Anyone remember Blackpool.

 

When we start conceding loads of goal I will probably say we need to look at this but at the moment is it really broke.

[danoafc]

Oh my oh my! Crossley granted not the greatest keeper to have graced the earth but bleedin hell what do you expect! Dya think shez can get David James or Robinson on loan?? Even these two would be jeered by some so called fans of this club!! Crossley made some decent saves, kept the back line in order and all in all did a good job... His kicking granted was wayward (in terrible conditions) which Shez so kindly pointed out to him in the first half by a rolicking!?! To me Crossley looks desperatley unfit via his recent injuries and not being able to have the time off he needed from his injury to recover! Crossley is all we have no good throwing a rookie in and there is no one in the loan market worth throwing money at.. Granted he aint the best but i for one praise him for stepping in and doing a half decent job whilst unfit and kernobs at the game doing nothing but slating him!

 

You can look at all the stats in the world but the reason for us not being in the top half of the table is because of how we play in the final third and the lack of composure in front of goal.. NOT NORMAN!

 

 

I love all this 'what do you expect' bolox. Nobody's expecting James or Robinson, but Ronnie managed to get Lee Grant on loan from Derby a couple of seasons back and Grayson seemed to do ok getting Joe Hart in last year from City when Rachubka got injured, both of whom I reckon we'd all have in the side before Crossley.

 

Crossley made a couple of decent saves on Saturday but he looks desperately unfit - doesn't seem very mobile at all. He seemed to badly mis-judge a couple of shots on Saturday and he certainly doesn't give me a great deal of confidence. The other thing which I find very worrying about him at the moment is the amount of times he seems to keep looking over his shoulder to see where the goal is. A keeper of his experience really should know exactly where his sticks are without even looking back. I think it says it all when 'd much rather have Beresford between the sticks right now - it's a shame he got injured.

[garcon]

Goalkeeping is a very particular skill. Even those within the game who tend to concentrate on the rest of the team leave the keeping to the specialists. I don't claim to be any more of an expert on keeping than anyone else here, but I do think some of the criticisms of Crossley on a technical basis are wide of the mark.

 

He's no spring chicken, he doesn't get around the box as quickly as most, but he has immense experience, he's consistent, and he's a decent stopper.

 

I also think many fans were critical of his performances (which were admittedly shaky) when he was playing through the pain barrier with thigh and back injuries - if we'd had a fit/confident Pogs available I'm sure he'd have played instead, and maybe Crossley wouldn't have been tarnished in the way he seems to be now.

 

Interesting how the same fans who are so picky with the likes of Crossley seem to ignore the two or three catastrophic errors Stam makes every game...

Edited December 10, 2007 by garcon

[daznathe]

he seems to misjudge balls in the air, he left both shots that hit the bar.

booing during the game is wrong tho, especially for wayward goalkicks. shouting the odd 'catch the fckin ball norman' is ok for £20 as long as you counter it with a bit of support for the team (which clearly doesnt happen or bp would be rocking all game) but booing is a step to far, it cant have any benefit.

[daznathe]

Interesting how the same fans who are so picky with the likes of Crossley seem to ignore the two or three catastrophic errors Stam makes every game...

 

i wouldnt say two or three per game but i have noted two on sat and one v crewe. not enough to warrant dropping him yet imo.

[Frankly Mr Shankly]

Goalkeeping is a very particular skill. Even those within the game who tend to concentrate on the rest of the team leave the keeping to the specialists. I don't claim to be any more of an expert on keeping than anyone else here, but I do think some of the criticisms of Crossley on a technical basis are wide of the mark.

 

He's no spring chicken, he doesn't get around the box as quickly as most, but he has immense experience, he's consistent, and he's a decent stopper.

 

I also think many fans were critical of his performances (which were admittedly shaky) when he was playing through the pain barrier with thigh and back injuries - if we'd had a fit/confident Pogs available I'm sure he'd have played instead, and maybe Crossley wouldn't have been tarnished in the way he seems to be now.

 

Interesting how the same fans who are so picky with the likes of Crossley seem to ignore the two or three catastrophic errors Stam makes every game...

 

I absolutely couldn't agree more with you garcon. You've hit nail firmly on head with that one. Stam for me provides more heart in mouth moments than anyone on that pitch. I do know he is a decent player too, but he's far more prone to lapses in concentration.

 

But with Crossley, occasionally yeah he makes me squirm but looking at his performances as a whole they've been pretty decent. If he was pulling us out of the crap on a weekly basis with a string of saves I'd be far more more worried which would mean we had serious problems in defence.

 

But we haven't. Shall we move on from this then...?

[danoafc]

I absolutely couldn't agree more with you garcon. You've hit nail firmly on head with that one. Stam for me provides more heart in mouth moments than anyone on that pitch. I do know he is a decent player too, but he's far more prone to lapses in concentration.

 

But with Crossley, occasionally yeah he makes me squirm but looking at his performances as a whole they've been pretty decent. If he was pulling us out of the crap on a weekly basis with a string of saves I'd be far more more worried which would mean we had serious problems in defence.

 

But we haven't. Shall we move on from this then...?

 

Hmmm?! Or perhaps if the oppo aren't being allowed to create too many decent chances, Crossley is the weakest link in an otherwise excellent backline? Would we be keeping more clean sheets with a different/better/fitter keeper?

[garcon]

i wouldnt say two or three per game but i have noted two on sat and one v crewe. not enough to warrant dropping him yet imo.

He's earned his place at the moment, and I agree with Frankly that he's a good player who's just prone to occasional lapses.

 

Now Gregan's out long term, he has the chance for a prolonged run in the team ... and hopefully he'll start to iron the mistakes out.

[wozz_oafc]

to be now.

 

Interesting how the same fans who are so picky with the likes of Crossley seem to ignore the two or three catastrophic errors Stam makes every game...

 

But i think thats because the majority know that Stam when fully fit, (which i doubt he is at the moment), is a very very good defender. I would have thought after his last long lay off Shez would have liked him to get some reserve games in before throwing him back into the 1st team but injuries havent allowed this. I think it should also be noted that while maybe a coincidence, since his return we seem to be playing a lot less hoof ball from the defence.

[garcon]

I think it should also be noted that while maybe a coincidence, since his return we seem to be playing a lot less hoof ball from the defence.

May be something in that. Could be alot of factors involved - more confidence generally, Stam's passing, Eardley maturing and improving... even Trotters played a couple of superb passes on Sat.

[Frankly Mr Shankly]

Hmmm?! Or perhaps if the oppo aren't being allowed to create too many decent chances, Crossley is the weakest link in an otherwise excellent backline? Would we be keeping more clean sheets with a different/better/fitter keeper?

 

Who knows? I doubt it. Perhaps another keeper would have saved the penno, or maybe he could have stopped the lad from Vale's snapshot volley on the turn. Either way those two, plus most of the others weren't exactly down to bad goalkeeping on Crossley's part and it certainly doesn't warrant the micro-analysis of his performances that is going on.

 

But then your main point Dan is the uncomfortable feeling you have when Crossley is playing. I've explained that I'm far more uncomfortable when Stam has one of his 'turns' (which he has just about every game). Now I'm not getting on his back, because I'm fairly happy with him in defence, but it illustrates how you must feel as regards to Crossley.

 

But this whole thread has emerged just purely through gut feeling and no solid fact or evidence. Are we sure it's just not set up for if Norm has a howler in an upcoming game it's so some folk can turn round and smugly claim "they told you so"? Depressingly, it looks like it.

[danoafc]

Who knows? I doubt it. Perhaps another keeper would have saved the penno, or maybe he could have stopped the lad from Vale's snapshot volley on the turn. Either way those two, plus most of the others weren't exactly down to bad goalkeeping on Crossley's part and it certainly doesn't warrant the micro-analysis of his performances that is going on.

 

But then your main point Dan is the uncomfortable feeling you have when Crossley is playing. I've explained that I'm far more uncomfortable when Stam has one of his 'turns' (which he has just about every game). Now I'm not getting on his back, because I'm fairly happy with him in defence, but it illustrates how you must feel as regards to Crossley.

 

But this whole thread has emerged just purely through gut feeling and no solid fact or evidence. Are we sure it's just not set up for if Norm has a howler in an upcoming game it's so some folk can turn round and smugly claim "they told you so"? Depressingly, it looks like it.

 

In fairness J, I think Stam has looked a bit shaky on one or two occassions lately, but he's coming back from a long term injury. However, I think Hazell has been unlucky not to keep his slot in the central pairing.

 

Crossley looks as though he's still injured - he seems slow and not that mobile - and you're right with the uncomfortable thing - I just feel like he's an accident waiting to happen. Still, we're not conceeding too many - let's hope we can build more confidence throughout the whole side so this isn't an issue.

[Hometownclub]

Interesting how the same fans who are so picky with the likes of Crossley seem to ignore the two or three catastrophic errors Stam makes every game...

 

Don't forget that despite these catastrophic blunders every game that Stam is still much better than Gregan.

 

[leezyverpunk]

Let us all not forget, whilst the dee-fence is copping quite a bit of stick, what about our bleedin attackers - chances are going begging, we aint killing teams off. We are playing well and the last 2 games have left a bitter-sweet taste, great performances, not so good results. I don't attend away games so expect at least 4 points in the next couple of weeks!!

[Davros]

I love all this 'what do you expect' bolox. Nobody's expecting James or Robinson, but Ronnie managed to get Lee Grant on loan from Derby a couple of seasons back and Grayson seemed to do ok getting Joe Hart in last year from City when Rachubka got injured, both of whom I reckon we'd all have in the side before Crossley.

 

Crossley made a couple of decent saves on Saturday but he looks desperately unfit - doesn't seem very mobile at all. He seemed to badly mis-judge a couple of shots on Saturday and he certainly doesn't give me a great deal of confidence. The other thing which I find very worrying about him at the moment is the amount of times he seems to keep looking over his shoulder to see where the goal is. A keeper of his experience really should know exactly where his sticks are without even looking back. I think it says it all when 'd much rather have Beresford between the sticks right now - it's a shame he got injured.

 

Well what do you expect... we obviously aint got the money to be throwing new keepers in, Beresford was an exception due to having no one else as back up! The chances are Shez will get a someone in on loan replacement once Ricketts has been offloaded but untill then an unfit keeper who probably wanted more time to recover from his injuries is doing ok and shouldnt be slagged off!

[danoafc]

Well what do you expect... we obviously aint got the money to be throwing new keepers in, Beresford was an exception due to having no one else as back up! The chances are Shez will get a someone in on loan replacement once Ricketts has been offloaded but untill then an unfit keeper who probably wanted more time to recover from his injuries is doing ok and shouldnt be slagged off!

 

We had the same back up to Crossley when Beresford came in as we do now - Josh Bell, and an injured Pogs.

 

Crossley is doing 'ok'. Same as he was only doing 'ok' when he was fit at the start of the season. Can anybody honestly tell me at any point that they've been totally confident in him, right from off?

 

What I don't get on here is this whole attitude of 'well we're in the 3rd division - what do you expect? Permiership players?', like we shouldn't question the abilities of a player and should just lump it with our mouths shut and accept any old guff? And I'm not just talking about Crossley.

 

I'm certainly not gonna boo him during a game - it is simply counter productive to do so, but perhaps the club should come out and say he's still struggling with an injury if that's the case - perhaps that will keep a few of those who DO choose to voice their opinions at the match, off his back.

 

I should just add to all of this that I really do hope he comes good - when we signed him I thought it was an excellent signing - good experience and potentially a good coach for Pogs - now I'm just not convinced anymore.

Edited December 10, 2007 by danoafc

[leezyverpunk]

I'm certainly not gonna boo him during a game - it is simply counter productive to do so, but perhaps the club should come out and say he's still struggling with an injury if that's the case - perhaps that will keep a few of those who DO choose to voice their opinions at the match, off his back.

 

I should just add to all of this that I really do hope he comes good - when we signed him I thought it was an excellent signing - good experience and potentially a good coach for Pogs - now I'm just not convinced anymore.

Even if it came out he had 2 broken legs, once the boo boys have a particular player in their sightts, they go on regardless. A complete waste of negative energy but I think some people are born to moan and aren't happy if not doing so - like me now for example - D'OH!

[Latics4Ever]

Putting words in a BIG font doesn't make them any more true. It just makes you look like that you need special attention. Using this logic, a goalkeeper should be expected to save absolutely nothing and even shots straight at him should be let in, after all, by your argument, anything else is a bonus. Thats clearly ridiculous.

 

My words were put in BIG font to emphasise a point, the fact you then decide to make it personal and state I need special attention just shows that you are unable to debate a point and have to descend to slating the opposition. It also makes me appreciate why I try to avoid the majority of forums nowadays.

 

However, your whole argument as I see it is as follows:

 

1. Crossley made 2 saves that any keeper would be expected to save.

2. By proxy, the fact he DID make these saves means that the fans expectations have fallen because you decided they are "bread and butter saves" and the fans deem them as match-saving.

3. Crossley palmed a ball over the crossbar rather than catch it, because, you allege he misjudged it and then got lucky.

4. His kicking was "very, very poor" and therefore is a liability who has cost us 10 points this season and Shez is also in the wrong for failing to replace him.

5. Your ultimate point is that Crossley must be got rid of.

 

In response:

 

1. Impossible to prove, unless you recreate the exact situation with each keeper to see if they would have also saved those shots, in those conditions. FACT: Crossley was in the right place to save them and he DID make the saves.

 

2. EVERY Keeper/Footballer in the world has made a hash of "Bread and Butter" moments. FACT: Because Crossley made the saves, they PROVED to be match saving. Also, why start having a pop at the Supporters because of their reactions to the saves? Football is an emotive game unless you are a sad git who sits in silence through 90 minutes before going home to read match reports before deciding whether or not you enjoyed the game!!!

 

3. FACT: The icy conditions added to Crossleys experience will have resulted in his decision to parry/palm the ball away rather than catch it. For Christs sake you would be here until Doomsday if you analysed every individual's actions & reactions from just the first half of a match if you wanted to be so ultra critical.

 

4. FACT: Yes his kicking was poor, however he corrected this during the game. Your argument for him being a liability and costing us 10 points has been completely destroyed by another post. Not even wasting my tme getting involved in an argument with you about Shez.

 

5. FACT: Crossley was brought to the club primarily as a Goalkeeping coach and as back up to Pogs. Circumstances have dictated otherwise, and after a shaky start I feel he has settled in and we are starting to see the best of him with more to come. His experience is priceless and a very rare commodity in this league, we would be a poorer team/side/club without it.

 

Without being personal, you seem to be either someone whose glass is always half empty, or failing that you are a wind-up merchant. I trust I have stated the case for Mr Crossley.