Kingofdikebab Posted December 27, 2007 Share Posted December 27, 2007 2500 spare seats in the home end? You are avin a giraffe KOTK Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jsslatic Posted December 27, 2007 Share Posted December 27, 2007 2500 spare seats in the home end? You are avin a giraffe KOTK My thoughts exactly. From where I was sat in the Lookers Upper, the Main Stand Upper looked full, the Paddock was pretty full, Lookers Upper itself was rammed and the Chaddy looked very busy as well. Unless the Lookers Paddock was empty I fail to understand where all the empty seats were. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kingofdikebab Posted December 27, 2007 Author Share Posted December 27, 2007 Lookers was absolutely rammed top and bottom. Few seats in bottom of main stand but pretty much full. I was in Chaddy and I reckon that must have been pretty close to full. Begs the question how you could get another 2500 home fans in? Thats enough people to fill the entire Lookers. Very strange. Looked a 9k plus crowd to me and not much different to last years attendance of 9700. Surely 9,140???????????? KOTK Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest amoweb Posted December 27, 2007 Share Posted December 27, 2007 The Chaddy End looked no busier around where we sat, although the queues were bigger at the food kiosks. Do they count the Small Section of the RRE as "Home End" if so that could contribute to the 2500 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kingofdikebab Posted December 27, 2007 Author Share Posted December 27, 2007 Inlcuding the small Section that would have meant over 4000 spare seats - accepting that 1600 were empty that leaves another 2500. Excluding the RRE the home stands hold just short of 9000 - including the RRE it is 10,600. 8140 - shurely shum misteak KOTK Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jsslatic Posted December 27, 2007 Share Posted December 27, 2007 The Chaddy End looked no busier around where we sat, although the queues were bigger at the food kiosks. The Chaddy was much, much busier than usual. There's absolutely no way there were only just over 8,000 there yesterday. No way. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yard Dog Posted December 27, 2007 Share Posted December 27, 2007 Not been to as many games as I should have this season, but the Lookers and Main Stands looked pretty full. I was in the Chaddy and there were quite a lot of empty seats at either side....busier than normal, but still plenty of spaces. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kingofdikebab Posted December 27, 2007 Author Share Posted December 27, 2007 Even if there were 1,000 spaces in the Chaddy and 500 in the Main Stand and Lookers that would have meant 7500 Oldham fans which looks a lot closer to the mark than 6500. Forest also looked like a 2000 following to me. Official crowd 8,140. True crowd probably closer to 9,500 ( . KOTK Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yard Dog Posted December 27, 2007 Share Posted December 27, 2007 Even if there were 1,000 spaces in the Chaddy and 500 in the Main Stand and Lookers that would have meant 7500 Oldham fans which looks a lot closer to the mark than 6500. Forest also looked like a 2000 following to me. Official crowd 8,140. True crowd probably closer to 9,500 ( . KOTK Maybe, but often stands can look fuller than they are. Forest's following was poor - I thought 1,600 was generous. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jimsleftfoot Posted December 27, 2007 Share Posted December 27, 2007 Maybe, but often stands can look fuller than they are. Forest's following was poor - I thought 1,600 was generous. I could see plenty of seats that were spare in all stands. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
edhunteruk Posted December 27, 2007 Share Posted December 27, 2007 I could see plenty of seats that were spare in all stands. they have always cooked the books so to speak regarding attendance figures. that said there were a few empty seats in the chaddy near us,but i doubt as much as there saying. defo 1k missing off that total. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
leeslover Posted December 27, 2007 Share Posted December 27, 2007 I guessed that there was a good 8000, so I'm going with the official figures. The Forest lot weren't packed into the area they did fill, and the Chaddy always looks fuller than it is. I'd be very surprised if there wasn't 1 in 5 home seats unfilled, including round the edges and up at the back, and presumably not counting WAGS, agents and other comps. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oafcprozac Posted December 27, 2007 Share Posted December 27, 2007 (edited) they have always cooked the books so to speak regarding attendance figures. that said there were a few empty seats in the chaddy near us,but i doubt as much as there saying. defo 1k missing off that total. We've done this one until the cows come home, it all came to a head during the Summer of Hell, when City came over for a friendly, the attendance was widely questioned that day too from within the JK Latics regulars. To counter this Alan Hardy offered 3 fans the chance to openly observe how the attendance for matches at BP is compiled. (I was one of the three, Mike Stott being one of the others) The system is fully computerised with monitors showing how the ground is filling in the boardroom, the Police control box and in the office at the back of the Lookers Stand, all turnstiles have CCTV so no-one can drop the gateman a dodgy tenner and vault the turnstile etc... The figure given normally includes all complimenteries and the Corporates and sponsors etc... often there is a marginal difference in the final figure but usually nothing too drastic. The club has to withold a small percentage of its capacity due to FL rules and as stipulated in its Safety Certificate granted on an annual basis by the Local Authority, GMP & GMF&RS, possibly around 3%, it was 4 years ago so that figure may or may not be right, email AH he will clarify) If the club was found guilty of any wrong doing then its safety certificate would be revoked and immediate suspension from the Football League would follow. In a nutshell, manipulating the attendance is nigh on impossible at BP. Edited December 27, 2007 by oafcprozac Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
astottie Posted December 27, 2007 Share Posted December 27, 2007 We've done this one until the cows come home, it all came to a head during the Summer of Hell, when City came over for a friendly, the attendance was widely questioned that day too from within the JK Latics regulars. To counter this Alan Hardy offered 3 fans the chance to openly observe how the attendance for matches at BP is compiled. (I was one of the three, Mike Stott being one of the others) The system is fully computerised with monitors showing how the ground is filling in the boardroom, the Police control box and in the office at the back of the Lookers Stand, all turnstiles have CCTV so no-one can drop the gateman a dodgy tenner and vault the turnstile etc... The figure given normally includes all complimenteries and the Corporates and sponsors etc... often there is a marginal difference in the final figure but usually nothing too drastic. The club has to withold a small percentage of its capacity due to FL rules and as stipulated in its Safety Certificate granted on an annual basis by the Local Authority, GMP & GMF&RS, possibly around 3%, it was 4 years ago so that figure may or may not be right, email AH he will clarify) If the club was found guilty of any wrong doing then its safety certificate would be revoked and immediate suspension from the Football League would follow. In a nutshell, manipulating the attendance is nigh on impossible at BP. lots of space at the back of the NSM - maybe the last 4 rows and plenty of other gaps. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Diego_Sideburns Posted December 27, 2007 Share Posted December 27, 2007 lots of space at the back of the NSM - maybe the last 4 rows .... Were those reserved for people willing to sing? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kellysheroes Posted December 28, 2007 Share Posted December 28, 2007 Were those reserved for people willing to sing? easy 9500 there well done tta money in the back pocket and back into the club through something different!!!!!!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harry Dowds Green Shirt Posted December 28, 2007 Share Posted December 28, 2007 QUOTE(Kingofdikebab @ Dec 27 2007, 16:26 PM) Even if there were 1,000 spaces in the Chaddy and 500 in the Main Stand and Lookers that would have meant 7500 Oldham fans which looks a lot closer to the mark than 6500. Forest also looked like a 2000 following to me. Official crowd 8,140. True crowd probably closer to 9,500 ( . KOTK QUOTE(edhunteruk @ Dec 27 2007, 18:41 PM) they have always cooked the books so to speak regarding attendance figures. that said there were a few empty seats in the chaddy near us,but i doubt as much as there saying. defo 1k missing off that total. easy 9500 there well done tta money in the back pocket and back into the club through something different!!!!!!!! Amazing, we are on an 11 game unbeaten run and the conspiaracy theorists on here still find a way to have a pop at the club. Prozac has given a full run down and what he says is spot on. Don't you get it? It is nigh on impossible for the club to fiddle the gate. If they did, with the Police in attendance at each and every game and monitoring their crowd control screens, any discrepancy would be picked up and the club would be on a charge for each and every act of fraud. Just for information, in the main stand yesterday, there were 15 seats unsold in blue block, 80 odd in grey and 70 odd in white total unsold main stand upper = approx 170 out of a total of 1544 i.e over 10%. (Also there are the season ticket holders who don't attand for 1 reason or another, but whose seats cannot be resold.) I pose the question did it look like there were 10% unsold seats in the main stand? From my seat in the Chaddy End it looked full, but as I said that wasn't the case. As for the NSM paddock being full, you must be joking! It was probably only just over half full. There were empty seats all over the place and the end section at the Rochdale Road end was closed off completely. Also remember back to the Forest game last season when there were over 8,000 home fans. People were being moved out of the Chaddy End into the Paddock, yet the Chaddy was not full. The reason? there were losts of odd seats spread around. People either couldn't find them, didn't want to sit behind them (they were behind pillars) or they wanted 2 or more together. Unless it is an all ticket game with reserved seating the club has to reduce capacity where it is using unreserved seating by 10% to comply with the conditions of the safety certificate, so in every stand bar the main stand upper, capacity is cut by 10%. Chaddy end 350, NSM Upper 140, NSM lower 120, Main Paddock 90. None of those stands reached capacity. The closest was the NSM upper. Hope this helps people understand how things operate. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kingofdikebab Posted December 28, 2007 Author Share Posted December 28, 2007 Not having a pop at the club at all. However, I don't buy all this technology nonsense etc etc. I wouldn't hang my hat on the old bloke operating the turnstile to get the numbers right with a long queue and his pen and paper to hand as he scraps around for change. Also, under 6's don't pay and don't go through the turnstile. They are lifted over. The system is rife with faults. I am not saying the club is cooking the books. Not at all. BUT mistakes happen. I remember when we played Stockport at home on a Saturday (under Dowie) and the crowd was announced as 8,200 with nearly 7000 home fans. It was p1ssing it down and there were about a 100 in the Lookers lower. The crowd looked 7000 maximum to me. Swings and roundabouts. Just a shame that what looked like a decent home following on Saturday which topped 7000 in my opinion was announced as 6400. KOTK Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harry Dowds Green Shirt Posted December 28, 2007 Share Posted December 28, 2007 Not having a pop at the club at all. However, I don't buy all this technology nonsense etc etc. I wouldn't hang my hat on the old bloke operating the turnstile to get the numbers right with a long queue and his pen and paper to hand as he scraps around for change. Also, under 6's don't pay and don't go through the turnstile. They are lifted over. The system is rife with faults. I am not saying the club is cooking the books. Not at all. BUT mistakes happen. I remember when we played Stockport at home on a Saturday (under Dowie) and the crowd was announced as 8,200 with nearly 7000 home fans. It was p1ssing it down and there were about a 100 in the Lookers lower. The crowd looked 7000 maximum to me. Swings and roundabouts. Just a shame that what looked like a decent home following on Saturday which topped 7000 in my opinion was announced as 6400. KOTK OK so under 4's/5's get lifted over the turnstikes, but that happens at every match so it was no different on boxing day. Also I don't get your point about the guy on the turnstile. You say you don't buy the technology stuff then say you wouldnt hang your hat on the guy on the turnstile. Are you saying you don't trust anything? Just out of interest what exactly would you believe? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GlossopLatic Posted December 28, 2007 Share Posted December 28, 2007 (edited) We've done this one until the cows come home, it all came to a head during the Summer of Hell, when City came over for a friendly, the attendance was widely questioned that day too from within the JK Latics regulars. To counter this Alan Hardy offered 3 fans the chance to openly observe how the attendance for matches at BP is compiled. (I was one of the three, Mike Stott being one of the others) The system is fully computerised with monitors showing how the ground is filling in the boardroom, the Police control box and in the office at the back of the Lookers Stand, all turnstiles have CCTV so no-one can drop the gateman a dodgy tenner and vault the turnstile etc... The figure given normally includes all complimenteries and the Corporates and sponsors etc... often there is a marginal difference in the final figure but usually nothing too drastic. The club has to withold a small percentage of its capacity due to FL rules and as stipulated in its Safety Certificate granted on an annual basis by the Local Authority, GMP & GMF&RS, possibly around 3%, it was 4 years ago so that figure may or may not be right, email AH he will clarify) If the club was found guilty of any wrong doing then its safety certificate would be revoked and immediate suspension from the Football League would follow. In a nutshell, manipulating the attendance is nigh on impossible at BP. What Prozac has said their answers the question this rumour has been circulating for years on various messageboards. Yet knowone in this thread or during that time ever comes up with hard evidence that we are fidling the figures apart from statements such as "it looked fuller than that" If this had been the case we would have done over years ago for this. WE AIN'T DOING ANYTHING ILLEGAL Edited December 28, 2007 by GlossopLatic Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kingofdikebab Posted December 28, 2007 Author Share Posted December 28, 2007 Believe nothing that you read and half of what you see. KOTK Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GlossopLatic Posted December 28, 2007 Share Posted December 28, 2007 Believe nothing that you read and half of what you see. KOTK So can you actually prove the attendance was higher than what was given on Boxing Day? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kingofdikebab Posted December 28, 2007 Author Share Posted December 28, 2007 No I can't. Well done. In reverse you can't prove I'm wrong either. Done this to death now. In my opinion there were more than 8140. End of story. KOTK Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GlossopLatic Posted December 28, 2007 Share Posted December 28, 2007 No I can't. Well done. In reverse you can't prove I'm wrong either. Done this to death now. In my opinion there were more than 8140. End of story. KOTK Fair enough we will agree to disagree but until someone shows me concrete evidence that we fiddle the figures I will trust the attendances that we give out I don't think we would be able to pull the wool over the eyes of the inland revenue for as long as we have. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lookers87 Posted December 28, 2007 Share Posted December 28, 2007 It was a bit of a suprise when they announced the attendance, but as has been pointed out already it is nigh on impossiple for clubs to 'cook' the attendances these days...for all manner of interested parties. Besides this is a conspiracy theory that does the rounds at most FL grounds. Most of the Burnley fans I know were talking about exactly the same thing yesterday - apparently they had more in than was announced. Let's face it, it's impossible to 'see' every empty seat in the ground from any one spot. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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