PeteG

1 hour ago, Pidge said:

You are completely ignoring the fact that most recruitment occurs in the off-season. During the season you will be lucky if teams release their “good and physically reliable” players. 
 

Why don’t you reserve your criticism of the club in this regard until we see how they perform this summer. 

I'm not sure whether you get this thread? It's titled - Let the inquest begin! We are discussing what went wrong this season and i'm actually referring to the recruitment during last summer. I've not mentioned 1 signing during the season and also cited other reasons imo why it went so badly wrong.

11 minutes ago, deyres42 said:

I'll be in the minority here and the sidelining is out of order but I don't think the arguments for keeping them are all that strong, you enter a competition to compete in it, not to be financially rewarded by virtue of the luck of the draw.

 

Be interesting to see what the reaction would be if they said you can have them back for Round 1 & 2...

I'm also in the minority here tbh, i'm not sure replays are necessary. The FA Cup has lost a lot of it's magic with so many sides including Championship sides fielding weakened sides. I don't think replays are the money spinner they once were, with the exception of drawing a Man United, Arsenal or Liverpool. Underdogs have a much better chance of winning in one off game. Just think when Matt Smith scored v Everton, would we have had a better chance with an extra 30 mins at home and potential penalties than a replay at Goodison? Even when we played Fulham it was reduced admission and despite us taking over 4000 fans I think the gate was in the region of 12000 or so. (someone will correct me) I doubt we made a great deal from the gate receipts but made more from TV even though it wasn't live. It's sad but it is what it is. I would also like to see Semi Finals moved away from Wembley, it takes something away from reaching the final and the Semis were magical at Villa Park, Maine Road, Highbury etc. Not going to happen, we are governed by the big 6 or 7 and the game is now a business all about money.

2 minutes ago, basilrobbie said:

Obviously I have little (no) insight to offer on this. However, I would be interested in your answers to two questions :

 

a) how ready do you think the club is for a return to the EFL?

 

b) linked to the above, to what extent is this season's "failure" a potential blessing in disguise?

If we had a team good enough to win promotion we would be ready for a return to the EFL, we are still a much bigger club than most sides in League 2 and we would gain a lot of momentum. The problem is, the team isn't good enough hence why we are where we are. There is no blessing in disguise in this season's failure. We've thrown a lot of the budget at it and I honestly believe the longer you are down here the harder it becomes. We were 2nd favourites last summer, i can't see us being in the first 6 in the betting for the title this time around. Obviously the bookies prices are only a guide and we may well do much better next season but realistically we are looking at managing expectations once again.

I'd be surprised if he walks despite how despondent he sounds since he's sat on a 3yr contract. It's more a case of him backing the board into a corner which given his contract puts him in a position of relative power. Same with some of the players unfortunately. We might be paying the price for sometime.

45 minutes ago, deyres42 said:

Well we do but you have to pay for the privilege, which apparently is absolutely fine and normal.

This is exactly why he should be addressing the fan base as a whole via official channels. We should and are entitled to some kind of update next week once the season is finished especially as they are asking people to part with their hard earned. If we don't get anything in terms of accepting mistakes or some kind of plan and whether the budget will remain the same or has to be cut (which I think most people expect) then I can see renewals being significantly down.

8 minutes ago, nzlatic said:

The issue with a long term plan is that it may require patience as it takes time to implement and hone. Which could mean more time at this level. I agree with a lot of what you’ve said about plan and structure. My guess is that the board have decided all that may have to wait until we’re a league club again. That short term strategy is the way to go to achieve that initial objective of getting back in the league. 

It also needs balls to see it through and not pander to the naysayers when you hit a rough patch. It means having the right people in place in the first instance. We appeared to be doing this and I understand mistakes will be made and some people will need to be replaced such as Unsworth but we seem to have ripped up the whole plan completely by getting rid of the recruitment team at the same time. We chased players like Willoughby Lundstram and the lad from Gateshead (can't even think of his name now) yet then went and signed Norwood and Raglan last minute because they were too good to turn down and there agents no doubt came knocking looking for a payday. I'm not saying these weren't decent players but they weren't in the plan and resulted in the above players and the likes of Reid and Nuttall getting little time to play or settle in. Who knows what that did to the squad morale? Suddenly the plan was out of the window and were throwing anything and everything at it. We need a clear plan now and we need to hear from the club officially what it entails so we can all buy into it. Start again but I'm fearful it will be on a much reduced budget now. We've lost 2 years and a lot of potential momentum and goodwill.

1 minute ago, nzlatic said:

Aren’t there members of our board that have had experience in football? I don’t mean played or coached, but had previous involvement in football clubs or administration?

With the exception of the Royles not that i'm aware. Peter Norberry was on the board at Wigan Warriors for a time I think but looking at some of the press releases regarding that, it wasn't wholly successful. Tbh, i'm not sure too many boards at football clubs will have people previously involved in football but i think the important thing for the board is to recruit people who have and the most important position should be the CEO. When was the last time the club actually employed a really good CEO or MD? My personal thoughts are we should get a CEO who employs a Director of Football to oversee the football side of things, whether that's Darren Royle or not is for the board to decide but the DoF needs to work closely with the manager, the recruitment team, the youth set up. Need to get all these things right and then we might start to see some progress. A long term plan essentially which is what i thought they were doing but seems to have gone out of the window at the first sign of some poor results. Since then we seem from the outside to have gone into panic mode and just thrown money at it signing players left right and centre without any real thought process to a system, resale value or length of contracts. I'm repeating myself here, but we have relied on several players throughout the season that were actually signed by Shez and the previous owners which is criminal really.

1 hour ago, nzlatic said:

So...

We need a young progressive coach.

 

But also...

we don't need any new fangled stats tech.

Or any new fangled job titles.

Or any new fangled departments.

We need the chaddy to be the home end.

We need to recruit like Joe Royle did.

 

What we actually need is a time machine to take us back to the early 90s when we were last good.

 

Or, if we can't do that, we need to get the recruitment right. We have great owners. We have an experienced board with football people on it. We have much improved infrastructure with much more improvement planned. We have a manager with a track record of success.

 

Get the recruitment right this summer and I'm confident we'll kick on next season. 

Who are these football people you refer to on the board? With the exception of Joe, I can't see anyone on the board with football experience and we don't know what Joe does or if he is just a figure head. The Rothwell's have been quoted as saying they know nothing about football and we've an inexperienced CEO in football. I've said it before, but before even thinking of sacking the manager or any further investment in the squad they need a total rethink on how the club is being run from the top.

Shelton played 90 mins v Fylde away and then only another 8 mins v Eastleigh at home a couple of weeks later under Mellon. I know Fylde away was bad but does seem strange he hasn't even given him another look given some of the players he has. Must be more to it. I had heard if Mellon didn't like the look of you that was it. Tollit had it at Tranmere and was first out of the door when he arrived here. Still think Tollit would have given us something.

3 minutes ago, nzlatic said:

Can you list the areas of the club that improved under the ownership of Abdallah Lemsagam, the sporting directorship of Mo Lemsagam and their senior advisor/club director Barry Owen? For example, what infrastructure, staffing or playing department areas of the business were left in a better state than what they inherited?

What is the relevance of that in terms of what we are discussing now? What areas of the club improved under the ownership of Corney? Are just going to keep going back? We are talking about now.

5 minutes ago, nzlatic said:

I don’t want to keep dragging this out, but I suppose to summarise my position I do agree that there have been issues with our recruitment of course. I just won’t point fingers when I don’t have facts. Eg stats bomb - we simply don’t know how extensively it’s been used or how influential it has been or how much at fault it is for the recruitment that hasn’t gone well. Plus as with most tech systems, it’s only as good as the people operating it!

 

I will be a lot more concerned if we’re still seeing similar issues 2 months into next season. 

The majority of us were saying the same thing 12 months ago. It has arguably been worse this season even if we do finish a couple of positions higher as they had a full pre-season this time to prepare. We can't keep making excuses about previous ownership and what they inherited. AL also inherited a mess of a club but protests were under way less than a full season in (Mansfield at home) when we still had an outside chance of reaching the play-offs in League 2. If the plan is still the same and there are mitigating circumstances as to why the recruitment has not worked thus far, we need the club to tell us and to say this is the path they are going down and stand by it. If they think they got it wrong, admit it and again tell us the new plan. They have just increased season ticket prices (rightly imo) but they can't just expect people to have blind faith after overseeing some of the worst results in the clubs history.

15 minutes ago, nzlatic said:

I’m not going to pull your post apart because you’ve just done the same again, made assumptions to fit your position and tried to pass it off as evidence you’re right. 
 

I will pull you up on the bit I’ve highlighted though as it’s simply not true. I just hold off on making absolute judgements about failure/success unless I have the facts of a situation. Or unless I think sufficient time has passed to judge something properly. So far, the weight of evidence is that those running the club are doing really well (infrastructure, plans for future development, paying the fucking bills! etc) and have the right intentions. Based on that, I’m happy to give more time and benefit of the doubt when it comes to that filtering through to what’s happening on the pitch.

DR is the CEO - he's the highest paid and highest rank employee in the organisation. Any CEO is to oversee all aspects of the business even though they will inevitably delegate many of the roles which require day to day, hands on roles. If everything off the pitch has improved, he will rightly take the plaudits but when it's been a complete mess on the pitch and much of the original plan has been shelved and we've not heard anything with regards to a new plan (as I've said previously, we just seem to be winging it) it is only right people question what he's doing and if he's the right man to lead the club at what is a vital period. You only have so long to make the most in terms of goodwill in change of ownership and my concern is we are wasting it. It will be 2 years before next season starts and at some point the honeymoon period will be over and gates will begin to fall if we are subjected to the performances we have seen thus far, especially at home. People are questioning Mellon, my only point really is we need to possibly have a total rethink before we even contemplate changing manager once again. It may well be, that the rethink has already taken place or is doing in the coming weeks but it would be nice to hear from the CEO once in a while from the official channels at the club. When was the last time he provided any sort of update?? 

14 minutes ago, GlossopLatic said:

 

I think we need to understand exactly what went wrong with the recruitment before we come to any conclusions on how to fix it. Its easy to sit their and say that it was all down to data analysis is wrong and we didn'tdo that int thee olden days without seeing exactly how and why playets were signed. Some of the signings looked good on paper and haven't come good. 

 

Their is also a danger of flip flopping from one strategy to the next it's important we find a consistent approach that works for us. 

 

We still haven't dome anything as brain dead as signing Queensy Menig on £13.5k a week but we certainly need to get more value for money than we have been doing.

Agree that signing a player on those wages in League 1 was silly but lets not try and rewrite history regarding Menig's ability as a player. He's played at a far higher level than any of our players we currently have and was sold for 700k not long after we had him on loan. He's played in the top European competitions and is currently playing for one of the top clubs in Turkey. 

I would also add that the decision not to use the loan market seemed a rather foolish one, whether that was Unsworth or a board decision, who knows. When we have used the loan market, with the exception of Stones, the signings have been just as poor as the permanent signings. Given in recent years some of our best players have been loans with the likes of Ripley, Lang, Surridge, Smith to name just 4, it seemed a bit rash so early into their time running the club to be so dismissive of the loan system.

The biggest indicator of disastrous recruitment is the fact that Mellon has relied heavily on Mcgahey, Gardner, Fondop and Sheron all of whom were signed under the Lemsagams. 

Just now, League one forever said:

Oh.

 

Agreeing to a B team in division 5. 
 

Canning a B team. 
 

Saying the youth structure is vital to the club, and then overseeing the only player to come through underplayed and sold for peanuts. 

Was just going to add these but I'd also say handing out expensive and lengthy contracts to all and sundry which is possibly the biggest and most damaging mistake of the lot.

I know that our experience of Director of Football isn't a good one but if we actually get the right person who is qualified to do the job properly then I think it's something we should do. Last week's Stick to Football guest was Les Ferdinand and he gives a really interesting insight into the role. Well worth a watch.

23 hours ago, spanishfly said:

 

This isn't 1st hand but is a summary of what I was told recently. Promotion was the immediate aim when the new owner/s came in. It was the aim again this season; both for Unsworth and for MM. It has recently been accepted it's not going to happen, largely due to a bloated squad of inadequate players. The season ticket price was set accordingly (i.e. to be in this league next season). MM is going nowhere and there will be a huge clearout in the summer (by whatever means necessary). We must be promoted next season. All important footballing decisions have been entrusted to "the Royles" so I`m assuming that to mean Darren and Joe (and I don't even know what position either holds tbh, I was only here for the football on the pitch).

 

Make of it what you will.

Personal opinion, but I wouldn't be letting the Royles anywhere near the important footballing decisions. They have had a go at that for the last 18 months and it's been horrendous. Joe has been out of the game a long time and the game has moved on a great deal in that time. We need to appoint a Director of Football who has full control on the recruitment alongside the manager which for me would still be Mellon at this stage. Those 2 people would then be responsible for the results on the pitch as currently nobody seems accountable. Who appoints the DoF, is another thing given the Rothwells freely admit to knowing nothing about football. As I said previously, the whole footballing side of things needs a complete rethink as we can't continue to waste precious time and money in the division for too long.

Whilst i'm all for giving Mellon time, I do think there needs to be some communication from the football club especially from the CEO who has been pretty anonymous in the 2 seasons he's been in charge of the club. It's ok speaking regularly with the Foundation but he really needs to communicate to the wider fan base via the official channels. We hear plenty from Frank which is all very nice but it's not about the football which has been largely shite since he took over. The club are now asking us fans to put our hands in our pockets for season tickets whilst we remain pretty much in the dark about the plans that were put in place. I remember DR saying on the podcast sometime ago all the off field stuff was to guarantee success on the pitch. We had a recruitment team headed up by Thompson, scouting team and stats based analysis. Is this still the plan and if so who is now in charge of recruitment. What happened to the B team? They seem to have come in with all these plans, it's turned to crap pretty quickly under Unsworth and now we are just winging it whilst throwing good money after bad. I would suggest before we look at replacing Mellon, there needs to be a total rethink from the top and it would be nice if that was shared with the fans.

1 hour ago, Theoutsider said:

Staff numbers up by by 22 which maybe explains the “lies”? 

I was referring to the football staff. Apparently we had no sports scientist, physio, catering for players, scouts, analysis staff etc. etc. before the take over which is know was lies.

9 minutes ago, Can Neil Redfearn Do It said:

 

I'd say it's considerably worse since the OEC is a commercial venture whereas the football club is not..

Tbf, they have probably had to spend a small fortune improving the place because he it hadn't had a penny spent on it since it was opened under the previous clowns running it

41 minutes ago, Theoutsider said:

Not looked at the accounts for Oldham Event Centre then…  

Yes, only losses of around half a million there so not as bad as the football side of things.

1 hour ago, yarddog73 said:

Not another wage

Speaking of wages, it's interesting that the number of staff employed has only gone up by about 4 despite now having to run the North Stand 7 days a week coupled with the fact we were told under the previous regime we had no scouts, no sports scientist, no ground staff etc. etc. Another load of lies or have we not really employed all these backroom staff and scouts we've been told about.

1 hour ago, deyres42 said:

He's the promotion guy, March and April is where he should be doing his best work, where he earns his corn and makes the difference and yet it has been the total opposite.

 

The decision makers must be absolutely horrified by it all.

Not so sure all the decision makers will be horrified tbh. I'm also not convinced by lots of people saying Mellon has been backed. He's made 3 permanent signings, one a young kid who won't have cost anything and won't be on massive wages, a 35 year old striker from a soon to be league 2 side who again wouldn't be earning that much at Carlisle and Conlon who after a bad injury wasn't catching at Vale and would have been earning average League 2 wages. This is hardly the backing of Nuttall, Norwood, Willoughby etc that Unsworth had. It has gone to shit the last couple of months but I still think Mellon can have us at the top end of the table next season if and it is a big if, he can get enough of this squad out the door and is able to recruit the players he wants and needs. Will very much depend on budget, and I can see Mellon walking if he can't get rid of 7 or 8 and bring 5 or 6 of his players in, although a 3 year contract might just see him hang around till October like Unsworth did.

28 minutes ago, jsslatic said:

 

'We can't afford to go up.'

Think we can't afford to NOT go up! Although, that said, Huddersfield have just released their accounts and they show a debt of £50 million despite have a below average wage bill for the Championship so it does show how much investment you really need to climb the pyramid.