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basilrobbie

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David Currie

David Currie (2/15)

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  1. I've just watched the highlights. They did score some bloody good goals, in fairness to your players. Anyway, I came on to comment about the stewards. Last time we were at Griffin Park was also for a night match when we were on a precipitous slide and they had forty attempts at goal and we lost 4-0. Like you we were angry, boisterous and showing gallows humour and we got the same sort of heavy-handed treatment from their stewards as some of you fans are saying they did. They were aggressive, humourless and completely inappropriate. And this is probably five years ago. I don' t know why that is. GP was always one of my favourite away grounds, not least because you had a choice of four pubs where you could have a pint and a friendly natter with the locals. Inside the ground in later years, not nearly as good. They have a long way to go to match the officious pricks at Swindon though.
  2. That was a good listen again (albeit not what you want to hear of course). I think the "moral high ground" point is massively important, and it was good to hear it being made again. And while the "high water" point was interesting and well made, I don't think this has to be that point. There's a lot more that can be done and it sounds as though there is plenty planned. I hope that administration is not the way you end up going. I think it would force you into the National League, would cost some blameless people their jobs (in all likelihood) and, as Derby fans are finding, may lead to your transfer embargo being extended by up to two years. It would have the (limited) upside of the Foundation getting first refusal at making a bid to take the club on, but as Matt said, that is an expensive business to sustain even at fifth tier level. Exeter and Wimbledon are the exemplars if you go that route. You might find it worthwhile to get some expert help from the FSA on fund-raising ; we did some due diligence on the subject about three years ago (most of which is now lost, unfortunately, I think), but our starting point was the FSA's stuff. I'll see if any of our Trust Committee still has any of the stuff we produced at the time. It might save you a bit of time if we can put our hands on it.
  3. Dave, two things : 1) I think the cat is out of the bag regarding an independent regulator, and I think Ms Crouch favours one established by statute. There are a number of models - Non-Ministerial Departments, arms-length agencies, companies limited by guarantee all exist in the UK, and there are others. 2) on who pays, personalIy favour a model which is part funded from Government and part top-sliced from the TV money. But the FSA have argued for a model funded by TV money, plus levies on betting companies and player's agents fees. As for regulation only being as good as its enforcement - at the bad end of the spectrum, I 100% agree. But I think enforcement measures need to be widened to include a graduated suite of measures aimed at owners and directors and their holding companies, rather than the clubs themselves where possible.
  4. Some of this is supposed to happen now, in that the prospective new owner has to show the EFL that they have proof of funding before taking a club on.Your suggestion goes wider than that, of course. The FSA favoured approach backs into this from a different angle, by asking that the new regulator be charged with identifying and promulgating good practice - thus establishing benchmarks against which less well run clubs can be judged - and helped to improve. It's not a quick fix, but I would agree that it has more chance of being sustainable as it would be built upon excellence, and evidence thereof.
  5. I don't think any of this is incorrect Dave. In fact, you are pretty much bang on. The club owners are very happy with the current system because they aren't challenged properly - I think that is more important to them than the costs of regulation, although if the EFL keep losing cases after racking up big legal costs that might change. I think the point I was making - not very well - is that being inert and unchallenging in this area has suited the EFL very well over a period of years. Had we not had Project Big Picture and the outrage caused by the ESL, they would have been continuing along that road even now.
  6. That's an overly charitable view of the EFL management, if you don't mind me saying so. You are right that the current system is run by owners for the benefit of owners. But it doesn't have to be like that, and the EFL has made very little effort in recent times to change the system. I think it is also fair to say that the concept of representing the wishes of supporters is an afterthought at best ; when we took a complaint to the Football Ombudsman (an EFL creation), we were told that as fans we were not participants in the sport, for the purposes of regulations, and therefore had no standing. The culture of the organisation is entirely inappropriate, even now. For the time being, they are what we are stuck with, however. Ironically, as they seek to show there is a point to their existence, you may find that they are more likely to be pro-active now than they ever have been. See Derby, for instance (even if they are merely making a pro-active balls of that one as well).
  7. Pidge, you may want to look at Chapter 4 of the FSA's evidence to Tracey Crouch. As one of the proud co-authors of it, I'm pleased to say that all of what you set out above is covered there. In fact it goes further, arguing for a Parliamentary Ombudsman type role that , in addition to audit and inspection work would also identify and promote best practice, make recommendations on key areas of policy (like the role of the Leagues and TV revenue distribution) and set-piece "state of the world" type annual reporting (probably to Parliament).
  8. You will never catch me defending the EFL. A High Court Judge offered them one hundred and sixty pages of evidence of wrong-doing in his Judgement in our case and they still failed to take any action. But that was 2017 under Harvey, and a lot has happened since then. A lot more is likely to happen between now and 2023 or so as well, by which time they may well have no role at all in this kind of regulatory sphere. So they are in a bit of a cleft stick. On the one hand they have traditionally acted as a glorified shop steward for club owners, whilst on the other they now know the mood music has changed and they want to show they can be something more helpful. So I think they will want to do something, if they can, and I'm positive they will be monitoring your situation closely. I think that part of the issue for them is that it is not always easy to confront general incompetence and translate that into a prima facie breach of rules. They may feel that this is part of the problem they have to manage in your case (I'm speculating, obviously). They may need some help to get there. That, in its turn, is part of the problem that your representatives have to manage. And it isn't easy to get right, or move along at the pace you might want. And it may not play itself out in public a lot of the time either, because of the very nature of it. I'm sorry if that last paragraph sounds a bit cryptic, but I guess what I'm saying is that when you are talking about problems that involve confronting and / or changing poor behaviour, some of it has to happen in private, at least initially.
  9. Hi all we've put this on our main message board this morning. https://avftt.co.uk/index.php?threads/oldham-athletic.23072/
  10. I think that is a very good and measured statement from PTB. Two things stand out for me : 1) the bit about respecting fans of other clubs when you play away from home. It seems to me that Orient are being gracious and accommodating in the extreme - hopefully everybody will remember that and that they are guests at Brisbane Road. You have the moral high ground - make sure you keep it 2) stressing that everyone should be able to protest in different ways that suit them. I feel if you are too prescriptive in the beginning you can put some people off and attitudes do harden over time, if people are given the opportunity to mull things over for themselves and discuss it with others. Good luck on Saturday. Orient fans have been through desperate times themselves, they will fully understand how you feel.
  11. Cheers Worcester. I don't see as many parallels as you might think, although there are some - the Oystons made very few attempts to engage and as best I can recall never accepted that any mistakes had been made. And of course at our club although under-investment was also an issue, the back story was very different to yours. They did work hard to divide and rule, singled out prominent fans for special attention and generally didn't respond well to the pressure. So some similarities are there, but it's not an exact match, and I'd never pretend otherwise. Your situation is unique to you, and from outside it looks a tricky one. You make a good point about racial abuse - we all know that when some people lash out in anger it is the first weapon they reach for. But it makes all the stuff that Matt (?) has been saying about how the Foundation has to behave and engage all the more relevant. Everybody who resorts to that kind of response might feel good for two minutes, but by doing so they hand the owner a free pass and make the job of the organised groups harder.
  12. Speaking as an outsider, I found that fascinating. It was a good tactic to begin by acknowledging past failings. But having set out a list of examples of poor judgement and poor decision making, to simply assure you that the latest set of decisions and appointments leave you in a good place doesn't wash for me. The current evidence belies it. I thought the section about the North Stand was a bit strange. Making a moral case for a change in the current arrangements is fine, I suppose, but if I read that correctly he want to re-negotiate whilst holding no cards. Apologies if I have misunderstood that. I agree with others that the comments about racism were at best misjudged and at worst an attempt to deflect blame. The threat to play games behind closed doors is bluster, I think, and not practical. I can't see other clubs being supportive, the EFL certainly won't be and I can't imagine the police would be keen on him turning an Oldham Athletic security issue inside the stadium into a potential public order problem outside it. My final point is that the very fact of this statement reinforces the power of protest. Would you have got it without it?
  13. I've got you now, sorry ; NOW I understand your point properly, and it's a good one. Whether our job was harder than yours is an interesting point. The fact that your position is more "nuanced" (to use Andy's word) DOES make it harder for YOU in some ways, I guess, because as he says, there isn't the same level of pantomime villainy here, is there? The thing that has surprised me over the last couple of years (and was referred to by someone earlier) is that more people don't know of the situation you are in. I've known for a couple of years that you had real problems and to be honest I tipped you to go down last year. But a lot of people out there still need to be educated about what you are contending with (I think Scunthorpe fans would see some similarities with where they are). I don't know what it is about the NW of England, but it really is the epicentre of mismanagement in English football. I think you would make a good case study for the FSA to be honest. If we get a new regulator, this is precisely the kind of difficult case that the statutory powers have to be able to cope with, and precisely the difficult situation that the intelligence gathering and whistle blowing provisions will have to be able to cope with. There is a lot to learn from your plight for lots and lots of people, quite apart from the basic morality of the whole thing.
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