whitey1980

Kelly is a professional footballer in more than name.... Which clearly makes him stand out within our squad.

He has been superb for us despite his limitations as a player.... and our record without him is lamentable. How anybody can underplay his inevitable departure is beyond me.

Worrying times indeed..

I would have thought the reasons for waiting to criticise are explained in his description of the forces leadership at the time.....

Past that who knows.

will add this to the debate copied from facebook

I have considered carefully what I want to say here about Hillsborough. The media coverage over the past few days, comments in the House of Commons and the suspension of the South Yorkshire Chief Constable all persuade me to post my thoughts.

I was a Constable, Sergeant and Inspector in South Yorkshire Police and served 17yrs before leaving to run a family business. I was there on the pitch at Hillsborough when the tragedy occurred working as a PC in a public order serial which had been called into the ground when the shout went up for assistance.

I witnessed the lack of command. The almost complete radio silence from the control room at the ground and the ridiculous decision to line up our serial in front of the Notts fans to prevent a pitch invasion whilst people at the Leppings Lane end were in obvious trouble.

I broke ranks at that moment with several other officers and began helping the injured from the pitch because it was obvious that senior commanders were not reacting to the situation as they should have been.

There is no doubt in my mind that poor policing decisions led to the deaths that day and it comes as no surprise that those in charge tried to deflect the blame. The culture in the force at that time was demonstrated in person by the majority of the Chief Superintendents and senior Command team. I have never come across a more arrogant, pompous and unlikeable group of individuals. They had absolute power over their Divisions (Districts now) and were completely unaccountable. What they said went and they were completely but mistakenly self assured in their ability.

That it took so long to discover the depth of the cover up from the then Chief Constable Peter Wright to the Chief Superintendents and those under their direct command is no surprise to me as no one would have dared to speak out.

What does offend me however is the headline in todays edition of i which screams ROTTEN TO THE CORE. Well that's not true either. The huge majority of officers on duty that day did just that their duty. They helped where they could, used initiative when the chain of command failed and should be commended for their work.

The current Chief Constable David Compton has been suspended by the Police and Crime Commissioner Dr Alan Billings. Yes he takes responsibility for the force but he wasn't there 27 years ago. It looks as though he was suspended because he tried to defend his force during the inquest proceedings. I think our Dr Billings is coming up for re election and needs to be able to say to the electorate look how tough I am. This has nothing to do with proportionality.

And the fans yes like all football crowds some of their number were intoxicated. I know because I saw it and we were confiscating beer from vehicles all morning. A huge haul of trays of lager and beer cans which had been brought to drink before the match. This was nothing unusual. This was the culture at the time and the reason fans were penned in like sheep at all grounds. Their behaviour in the previous decade had necessitated separation because of continued violence. So to say the fans had no responsibility is also wrong. Perhaps on the day the fans did not contribute directly to the 96 deaths but as a group their general behaviour over previous years had led to the point of wire cages on terraces.

Yes, let the people responsible face the music. Yes let Chief Superintendent Duckenfield and his immediate team be called to account but please don't call South Yorkshire Police rotten to the core. It wasn't then and I don't believe it is now.

The finer points of South Yorkshire police today I couldn't comment on.

The rest (including the comments on supporters and the culture of hooliganism) is very fair IMHO.

This thread does a massive disservice to Gregan with the repeated comparisons with Gerrard and Lockwood.

Absolutely this.

Undoubtedly the 96 souls that perished inside that ground were unlawfully killed, and the absolutely disgraceful accounts of the police conduct, and Duckenfield in particular, court no sympathy.

However it was a different time, and the behaviour of a significant minority of people who attended football matches (I hesitate to use the word 'fans') was a disgrace.

I don't think (however much some would try) that you can completely disassociate the treatment of the disaster and its aftermath with the behaviour (and in fairness treatment) of supporters across Europe at this time.

The police will rightly get hammered and the loved ones are rightly vindicated, but football and society as a whole has a responsibility for an entirely heartbreaking tragedy.

I was about to contribute my wisdom until I saw someone advocate getting rid of James Wilson and keeping Holmes-Dennis. Remarkable.

I agree about Wilson wholeheartedly, but wouldn't be averse to keeping Holmes-Dennis.

He is young (and has had some stinkers), but his and CD's energy from the full-back position have been key to the way Shez has us playing.

We are very narrow at times in midfield and often rely on their mobility to create an outlet - particularly away from home.

If he is available at the right price for both parties I would be inclined to offer him a contract...

 

Doesn't matter your age. It's passion.

Or booze!

Released by West Brom, don't know what they were thinking of.

Was awful last week by all accounts but was really impressed today.

Done deal to Brentford so I am told....

[quote name="disjointed"

The best player on the pitch by far was the Walsall number 10 a quality player that lad.

Stunning result and a performance that just oozed grit and togetherness.

That last comment is spot on though. We couldn't get near him all afternoon!!

 

Are there not a few on here who swear blind that winning whilst outnumbered in midfield is literally impossible?

We were cleverly set up with Jones and Palmer very narrow when they had the ball and Main and Forte tucked deeper.

What we did very well was then press as a front 6 after they inevitably played the shorter pass into midfield or to the often available wide player.

They had to look longer at some point but steadfastly refused to do so which meant by the hour mark we knew exactly where the ball was going.

What it did mean was that our fullbacks were seriously exposed on occasion - in both halves despite our second half dominance - but it was a risk ultimately worth taking.

Full marks to Sheridan - We set up perfectly last night - and also to Dieng who was superb at filling in the space on the rare occasions we didn't win it which allowed the rest to quickly reset.

Excellent performance and onto Saturday...

Interesting to hear that scout report, but their away record (despite losing on Saturday) is W11 D6 L2 which is vastly better than their home form. I wouldn't be surprised if Saturday was a blip for them, although hopefully it isn't!

Absolutely fair that, and he has watched them at home more than away.

He is pretty unimpressed by League 1 in general.

Reckons (and did so 3 months ago) that Wigan are the best side by a country mile and there are a real shortage of player options that could make the step up to Championship level. They were watching Max Power and Yanic Wildscut as a couple of the few they felt could improve them. Thankfully he hasn't graced any of our games yet, ha ha!!

If we can just stay up there is a real chance to kick on next year.....

 

Walsall will be a very different prospect to Swindon and Blackpool. They are up their and have the best away record in the division. I think we can get something out of the game but a win would be a superb result!!!

 

Offer me a draw now and I'll take it.

A good friend of mine is a scout at Birmingham City who has watched Walsall a lot due to interest they have in a couple of their younger players.

After the game on Saturday when he was at Bramhall Lane he described them as absolutely terrible. "Came for a 0-0, and continued to play that way at 2-0 down. Play two fullbacks as wingbacks and leave the front man completely isolated..."

I don't see any reason (especially after matching them away) that we shouldn't be looking for, and expecting the win.

Shrewsbury are in enormous bother. They are in real strife unless they can massively upset the formbook in the next month!!

Lovely lady - very sad news.

Crewe, Colchester & Doncaster are down the last place is between us Fleetwood & Blackpool.

 

Gut instinct says Fleetwood will go.

I felt that too but have just looked at the fixtures that see them play us, Blackpool and Crewe (last game) with at least a couple of those at home.

We need to up the ante if anything. That said Shrewsburys fixtures are horrendous and with a win on Tuesday we pull them right into the mix!!

Absolute must win on Tuesday.

The results could obviously have been better but were considerably worse at one point.

That must be a seriously damaging result for Shrewsbury to get a hammering like that at home.

50 points needed as a minimum for my money with Blackpools upturn in form....

Any team in this division is capable of winning 2 or 3 on the spin. It isn't that they are great - The mediocrity is massive which makes form so crucial.

I suspect one of Blackpool or Donny will put something together simply due to them having to improve from their abysmal form at present.

50-52 points is usually there or there abouts and probably will be again.

I actually disagree about us being a good footballing team. We are increasingly adept at breaking up the play - which we did superbly on Saturday - but we are really limited with the ball due to the lack of options we have.

Our best attacking options by far were our full backs on Saturday, and whilst it is great that we have the ambition to push them forward, it just shows how deep our central midfield lies on occasion that we drop the space so comfortably.

That was fine in getting us a great point at the weekend but we must get somebody up alongside Holloway today.

As somebody has put earlier, I would love to see Forte up with Holloway, whilst releasing Main off the right. Palmer and Kelly centrally with Jones off the left.

Dummigan is a big miss at right back with Brian Wilson seemingly the best option to replace. I thought James Wilson played very well there against Gillingham though, so could rotate either alongside Gerrard.

Massive game....

Gerard's only more replaceable because he actually needs replacing. Poleon could have been released in January and it wouldn't have made a single bit of difference.

However it was interesting to see how well the team defended on Saturday when set up properly from back to front.

The idea he is irreplaceable is not black and white for me. We should certainly seek to keep him but not at all costs!!

The point that is missed by some here is that the refusal to play was entirely symptomatic of his general performances in a Latics shirt.

He had no interest in challenging for the ball and made a habit of arriving 2 seconds behind where the ball had just left. Any player should have a pride in their performance that was absolutely lacking in his.

I don't personally have an issue with the cup 'refusal'...... but if Swansea gave him the all clear and he refused to play, Dunn should have thanked him for his efforts and terminated the loan agreement on the above grounds.

He clearly has ability as he showed in the second half of one game in which he was benched (god only knows which - we lost 2-1)....... but the pride in his performance to excel? I strongly doubt it!!

 

Are you referring to Gerrard's reaction to the goal or the argument he apparently had with Shez at the end?

 

If it's the immediate reaction to the goal then I'm happy at his reaction. It's about time we had someone who is furious and lets the rest of the team know when we concede a :censored: goal.

Both if true.

Looking at the highlights, the shot should have been stopped after the confusion. He was one of the players who should have stopped it.

He has a young goalkeeper who I am sure he knows is fragile..... and also who is prone to follow up errors when his confidence is affected. I am not saying he should say or do nothing - but not at that time in that way.

He also appears to me to be far happier dishing that out than being on the receiving end. What would have happened if Coleman had reacted in the same way?

As for him getting into an altercation with Shez....... Not good in any way shape or form.

He has been great for us - and has clearly been a major factor in our revival. I do have concerns over his character long term in our dressing room however.

From a perspective of 'blame', its pretty straightforward - If he has shouted its all on Dieng.... If he hasn't then he has to take responsibility in the changing rooms.

As a goalkeeping 'mistake'if thats what it was, then I think it is a positive one for Coleman to make. He is at his best attacking the ball, and we defend better when he does. A goalkeeper at our level should be coming for a flat ball in that area without an attacker in sight.

Not having been to the game though you cannot judge the decision without context.

He has to be consistent. Had he been coming for those deliveries all game? If he hasn't then it makes it very difficult for a shocked defender when the unexpected shout comes!

Gerrard is out of order with his reaction. Keep it for the changing rooms under the managers guise if you are going to let it rip like that. There were still 5 minutes or so left following the goal - What possibly could he gain?

Cornell came for nothing - and when he did try and do so he looked completely all at sea. He made life impossible for his defenders at times and I cannot see him in a Latics shirt again.

I think Gerrard was a bit annoyed with his own failure to block it.

Totally agree with that.

Even after the initial error, there was no way a scruffy effort like that should have found the net from that angle.

As one of the better players in our squad and one who has been better than average this season I'm not really getting the pick on Kelly comments, by his own standards he has had a couple of average games recently but for me he carried the fight single handedly during earlier games this season and should be cut a little slack.

Absolutely spot on.

Absolutely fantastic result.

Brought my nieces for their first games today..... They think its like that every week, ha ha!!

8 points from 4 games, game on!!

The only laughable part of the story is that football absolutely refuses to get a grip of the more systemic cheating and performance enhancing drugs that affect the game enormously.

Baxter is a professional athlete who is responsible for what is in his body. Thats ultimately the end of the story. Even in a truly tragic case like the Jake Livermore situation at Hull, he was very leniantly handled.

Anybody with any doubts about the issues the sport faces ought to go and read about operation Puerta in Spain, or the comments Wenger was making about EPO and red blood cell counts in 2004.

The game refuses to take the issue seriously as it would destroy the credibility of some seriously big names and sponsors. Sadly they don't have quite the same concern about a player at Baxter's level, but he himself can have no complaints.