Andy b

Interesting view. Not sure I get that. How does one explain the championship which is often very tight (though not quite as tight at the top this year)? Is that league shite as well?

Why does being ten points from third make the league garbage? It means it’s tight. That’s an entirely different point. Garbage compared to what? Is tier 4 worse now than it used to be? Is there a history of teams going from tier 4 to 3 and going straight back down? On what measure is it garbage? I here this a lot. I don’t really understand the point being made

Loads. The discussion will move on to how fans need to organise themselves to affect real change. Give it time. It’s all good.

Comparing apples and pears. Totally different experience. There are a number of clubs which I think it would be genuinely miserable to support almost as much as us. Those that float between top champ and bottom prem, who know they aren’t going anywhere and never ever get anywhere in the cups. West brom and Newcastle immediately spring to mind.

As I say. It didn’t need a response

In my experience utd fans fall into the latter category. It’s fair enough. There is no common ground. Why would they understand ?

I remember a few years ago when a Utd fan said I could never get as much enjoyment from supporting my team as him as he had seen his club win the champions league and I never would No need for a response.

Or never really develop that link in the first place. I would suggest there was a lot of that in the 1990s. Crowds dropped fairly rapidly post relegation

It’s more a case of people not getting as emotionally invested than changing clubs. That was my point

I think the idea of being lumbered with your team from an early age is a fallacy. The vast majority don’t develop the level of emotional connection which is needed for that.

Pricing is the wrong thing to focus on. It needs to be right, yes, but it won’t make a material difference on its own.

And it’s not just the offer on the pitch which will make this group more inclined to go more often. The facilities, a supporters bar etc are all really important. This group are the low hanging fruit

Agree there is no dormant support. The point for me is the number of people who go to say 5 or fewer home games across the season? I would guess there are maybe 4000 of these. At any one average game (ie excluding those that have some natural pull) you might get 900 such people in attendance. Increase their frequency of attendance to 10 games a season and that will mean a 900 person boost to your average crowd. the increase in uptake from a better offer on the pitch would come from this group attending more often rather than new fans coming out of the woodwork

Crowds against qpr and Blackpool are better measures of potential as these games only attracted ‘fans’ (ie they weren’t exactly high profile glamour ties) and wouldn’t attract loads of neutrals like the Liverpool / Everton games.

You’ve hit the nail on the head there.