a moan

[daznathe]

now i know my first ever thread on here was a whinge about greegs and crossley and how with them we will finish tenth but after greegs got injured and things picked up (maybe a coincidence, maybe not) i allowed optimism to slowly flood back through me and we hit january with my hopes high, the team lurking with intent and the prospect of spending a few hundred grand on 2-3 players to kick us on and up. now we end january with no money spent and two players in the proverbial boundary park shop window and to make matters worse weve sold of the brightest prospect at the club. yes maybe we got what the prospect was worth but at what expense? if its promotion then its false economy. the team now is 20% weaker at the back than december and the other positions we will have to see. i have spent this season begging, semi stealing and borrowing to get to matches even skipping meals here and there to get to save a few quid to put on tickets and get to the game and ive backed shez to the hilt but is it worth it? im not going tomorrow due to other circumstances but ill be at gillingham home and i wont moan at the match but im sacrificing a lot for this club and so are many others, we better start seeing some reward.

[Max Damage]

Yes very good. Now see what you can pay and what wages you can afford on 4500 fans each week.

[RoytonBlueLad]

[singe]

I cannot comment on ypur sacrifices, but no one is worth skipping meals for. Except maybe your own family.

 

That said, you must be able to see that the two signings seem to be quality. Trotman was sad, but there was no other choice. He'd have gone for nothing in 6 months, and that would be worse. Everyone was upset at Porter.

 

No signing comes with a guarantee, but we have loans as well, nnd we haven't splashed the cash. Close season could be interesting. Everyone, and you see more games than I ever will says we are a few players of being very useful.

 

And it wasnt for the want of trying to get players in. I donlt think we should hve gambled big for this season, we've been unlucky.

 

Chin up, hope you can see some of the positives

[murrayzmint]

I'm not really qualified to rate performances as I never get to any of the games, so in that respect, I envy you.

 

Greegan showed so much promise when he joined on loan that, to me, from what I've read on here, he was to be the rock in the centre of defence. I don't know what went wrong, but it wasn't seemingly going to plan. Crossley, however, seems to be improving, to the point of where he is now looking at the prospect of extending his career. Again, I've only seen him play once.

 

Thing is, we have been a 'selling' club for a long time and I can't ever see this changing, we are no different from a large majority of small clubs that need to sell to survive. Trotman had to go. Alan Hardy stated that an offer of a new contract was on the table, but Trotman decide to bide his time, effectively we had no choice as he would have gone for much less in the close season.

 

I take it the two players you refer to are Eardley and Taylor. They were the subject of transfer speculation last season and both still here come the start of this season. Who's to say they won't still be here come next season? They have both come through the ranks and I think loyalty may come into the equation. The club would be silly 'though not to listen to good offers for either of the two.

 

As for "seeing some reward", I think the fact that the club is still in existence, still in League One, a new stadium to look forward to and hopefully some managerial stability is reward enough.

 

Sorry to be in opposition to your thoughts, but, if like me, you were denied of the ability to go and watch your team of choice, you might appreciate just how lucky we are to still have a team to watch.

[daznathe]

yes it is and its much better to do it here than at the game.

ive found a positive in the fact that we didnt sign a lump, there will be no temptation to hooooof.

and i probably needed to skip a few meals anyway.

OH WHEN THE BLUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUEEESS

[ste1987]

The two signings we have added has added quality to the midfield area, one area which i think personally was struggling to provide service to the front men.

 

Jarett was an excellent signing, as was Livermore allowing taylor to now perhaps play on the right. The only problem in this area for sheridan is choosing who plays in midfield.

 

Rather than splashing the cash on anyone i'm happy to be honest that we arent breaking the bank with wages etc as we have all seen where that got us.

 

TTA have always said there is money available, which is no doubt considered by sheridan, but i don't think they are prepared to offer extorionate wages given we only get 4500 a week, which is understandable.

 

Seeing trotman go was sad, but for the lad im over the moon for him and we got a great deal out of it.

 

Be interesting to see who he brings in when the loan market is open, which i think will then be a striker.

 

But on a serious note mate as said further down, no-one is worth skipping meals over etc.

 

KTF and heres to some points at swansea! I actually guessed the score correct on tuesday night but tomorrow, instincts say it will be 1-1, somat i'd be happy with

[daznathe]

I'm not really qualified to rate performances as I never get to any of the games, so in that respect, I envy you.

 

Greegan showed so much promise when he joined on loan that, to me, from what I've read on here, he was to be the rock in the centre of defence. I don't know what went wrong, but it wasn't seemingly going to plan. Crossley, however, seems to be improving, to the point of where he is now looking at the prospect of extending his career. Again, I've only seen him play once.

 

Thing is, we have been a 'selling' club for a long time and I can't ever see this changing, we are no different from a large majority of small clubs that need to sell to survive. Trotman had to go. Alan Hardy stated that an offer of a new contract was on the table, but Trotman decide to bide his time, effectively we had no choice as he would have gone for much less in the close season.

 

I take it the two players you refer to are Eardley and Taylor. They were the subject of transfer speculation last season and both still here come the start of this season. Who's to say they won't still be here come next season? They have both come through the ranks and I think loyalty may come into the equation. The club would be silly 'though not to listen to good offers for either of the two.

 

As for "seeing some reward", I think the fact that the club is still in existence, still in League One, a new stadium to look forward to and hopefully some managerial stability is reward enough.

 

Sorry to be in opposition to your thoughts, but, if like me, you were denied of the ability to go and watch your team of choice, you might appreciate just how lucky we are to still have a team to watch.

 

well put. the 2-3 players i was refering to were i wanted to see signings and money spent as it appeared would happen.

[Hometownclub]

I don't think there is anything really to moan about.

 

The club for me had very little option with the sale of Trotman (I would have loved him to stay) but with him being out of contract in the summer and the Porter debacle, we did a good bit of business IMO.

 

The 2 players we have brought in (Jarrett and Livermore) look like good quality players with Championship experience.

I particularly like the balance a left sided player like Livermore will bring to the team.

 

We do need a striker and I'm sure one will be brought in on loan sooner rather than later. (the club really did appear to have done everything humanly possible to bring a striker in but were thwarted in their efforts).

 

[daznathe]

judging by the reaction to my skipping meals i now view you all as 'big boned'

[Inspiral_Carpet]

Daz - You and I debated Gregan's performances virtually every monday morning this Season and you were totally unwilling to acknowledge that his form improved and by the time he was injured, had put in several man of the match displays. You also seem to still be critical of Crossley despite the fact he's won us several points recently.

 

It isn't surprising therefore when people question your opinion as you are so blinkered in your views.

 

Clearly you give up a lot to watch Latics. Try and see the positives and I'm sure that you will enjoy it more. Or are you building up to another announcement soon that you are not going to the games anymore? At the time it read like a childish hissy-fit and it seems that you are carrying on despite a couple of good signings and a convincing win on Tuesday night.

[murrayzmint]

well put. the 2-3 players i was refering to were i wanted to see signings and money spent as it appeared would happen.

 

Ah, my mistake.

[Corporal_Jones]

Yes very good. Now see what you can pay and what wages you can afford on 4500 fans each week.

 

Vicious circle: crowds will not get any bigger unless we start looking ambitious football-wise, and will get smaller in the event of relegation.

 

As said before, other clubs no bigger than Latics seem able to get out of this division.

 

It looks as if we are to tread water until revenue from the redeveloped stadium is able to fund the football side. Let's hope no excuses are found then (and that the scheme actually works.)

[youngen]

Yes very good. Now see what you can pay and what wages you can afford on 4500 fans each week.

 

You seem to be forgetting weve just made 500K on Trotman plus the 200k we made off Philiskirk in the summer. Wages saved on Ricketts. Thats how we afford half decent players. 200k would have got us an extra decent striker and put pressure on the current front two. Now the 2 strikers will be thinking we dont have to play well Ill get picked before the kids anyway. I also dont think Livermore is an out and out winger and may be more like when we play Allott out right.

[oafcprozac]

now i know my first ever thread on here was a whinge about greegs and crossley and how with them we will finish tenth but after greegs got injured and things picked up (maybe a coincidence, maybe not) i allowed optimism to slowly flood back through me and we hit january with my hopes high, the team lurking with intent and the prospect of spending a few hundred grand on 2-3 players to kick us on and up. now we end january with no money spent and two players in the proverbial boundary park shop window and to make matters worse weve sold of the brightest prospect at the club. yes maybe we got what the prospect was worth but at what expense? if its promotion then its false economy. the team now is 20% weaker at the back than december and the other positions we will have to see. i have spent this season begging, semi stealing and borrowing to get to matches even skipping meals here and there to get to save a few quid to put on tickets and get to the game and ive backed shez to the hilt but is it worth it? im not going tomorrow due to other circumstances but ill be at gillingham home and i wont moan at the match but im sacrificing a lot for this club and so are many others, we better start seeing some reward.

 

This time last week I was at my lowest ebb as a Latics fan, after Tuesday night some faith was restored, the win was nice but to see us play in te manner we did filled me with hope. i had already conceded we wouldn't get a striker in and i'm glad the two deals faltered at the death last night as both were panic moves to appease the most negative and vociferous amongst our fanvase. To whom spending money and bringing players in willy nilly is the be all and end all. In this austere league we play in it is very much a make do and mend culture amongst 20 of the clubs, discounting Swansea, Forest, Leeds and Donny and it is no surprise to see the big spenders dominating the division. I'd prefer us to build a side gradually rather than constantly go for the quick fix. If that means occasionally selling a player to allow for reinforcements thats fine by me.

 

I think everyone's disappointed we didn't get that elusive striker. However, the transfer market at the moment is a joke with players reneging on deals left, right and centre. The integrity of agents and players is questionable to say the least. You are posting from a doom and gloom point of view, a worse case scenario if you like. Yes, promotion is unlikely and in having to win a minimum of 13 games from 19 even with the elusive goal amchine we'd have our work cut out.

 

Lets look at the positives, we have signed two proven championship midfielders in Jarrett and Livermore, yes they may be in the shop window but that will benefit us. There are a lot of players that will feel very let down by their representatives this morning and their arrogance at stating they'd ratehr play in the ressies than drop down a league or two will have crumbled away when they realise they have a stark choice, ressies for the rest of he season, which culminates in a lack of a true public stage to demonstrate their talents or a move once the loan market re-opens next week. I'd be very surprised if we don't get or first choices in on loan - Clarke or Vernon, perhaps even both. wouldn't discount someone of the ilk of Ormerod either.

 

As I say focus on the positives, because doom and gloom only pisses you off further. Biggest positive for me is we are bloody hard to beat and we have young Lewis chomping at the bit, who I and many others feel is the real deal. As for Trotters yes he had great potential but is nowhere near realising that. To get £500k + add ons is good business, the lad could've plateaued rather like Andy Holt, Danny Hall or Will Haining who were mooted for greater things. A final example is young Serrant, who got his big move on the cheap, then suffered a pro-career ending injury and is now turning out for Farsley.

 

One final point, many on here think the playoffs are still a possibility, the more realistic of us think they are long gone and this season will ultimately be one of transition. Say we brought in someone like Horsfield or moore on 2 1/2 year deals and they crashed and burned, wouldn't it be better to exploit the loan market over the coming weeks and finish as high as we can, then with the money we have saved from 6 months wages we can be a real player in the market come the summer?

 

This club should have a lot to look forward to the ground redevelopment for one. The emergence of players with real potential and despite the odd mistake in the market we tend to improve on what we have at least 90% of the time.

 

Keep The Faith

[Corporal_Jones]

The other thing is, people whine on about us only getting 4500, but when it looked a if we were serious about getting out of the division (part of the Wadsworth season, the Dowie period and at various times since), crowds rose considerably. Wasn't the average in recent years more like 6800?

 

As it is, we are unlikely to top 5000 at home again this season. People will not pay £20 a throw to watch mid-table (at best) Third division football.

[Corporal_Jones]

[This time last week I was at my lowest ebb as a Latics fan, after Tuesday night some faith was restored, the win was nice but to see us play in te manner we did filled me with hope. i had already conceded we wouldn't get a striker in and i'm glad the two deals faltered at the death last night as both were panic moves to appease the most negative and vociferous amongst our fanvase. To whom spending money and bringing players in willy nilly is the be all and end all. In this austere league we play in it is very much a make do and mend culture amongst 20 of the clubs, discounting Swansea, Forest, Leeds and Donny and it is no surprise to see the big spenders dominating the division. I'd prefer us to build a side gradually rather than constantly go for the quick fix. If that means occasionally selling a player to allow for reinforcements thats fine by me.

 

 

 

The problem is that we don't build a side. As pointed out many times before, the side is ripped apart every close season, which means that we start a season with a new side that has fallen out of the running before it's even begun to gel.

 

We then have the usual, 'will we/won't we make the play-offs?' When we do, a patched-up side of past-it veterans and kids go and bottle it.

 

The only way we will ever get out of this division is by building a decent squad, keeping it together and going all-out for automatic promotion.

 

There is no will at the club to do this.

[Inspiral_Carpet]

Vicious circle: crowds will not get any bigger unless we start looking ambitious football-wise, and will get smaller in the event of relegation.

 

As said before, other clubs no bigger than Latics seem able to get out of this division.

 

It looks as if we are to tread water until revenue from the redeveloped stadium is able to fund the football side. Let's hope no excuses are found then (and that the scheme actually works.)

 

Here we go with the tired old rhetoric.

 

You want ambition? How about £15k losses every week? Presumably that isn't enough for you?

 

Look at last Season. Top of the League or rarely out of the top 6 and we were getting 5000 at home - sometimes less. We had one of the bigger payrolls in League One. People don't necessarily come if we are playing well and winning. They will if it is free but we can't even fill the ground at £2 a shot!

 

You are rightly unhappy that OAFC as a Club did not do more when we were in/ falling from the Premier League. I agree. But since then we have had 2 or 3 changes of ownership. The current regime have shown they are made of different stuff. They have shown that they are ambitious. They have shown that they are prepared to speculate (sensibly and not like Moore) to accumulate but so far, they have largely been let down by performances on the pitch.

 

Can you seriously not see a difference between this regime and the days of Stott, JWL etc or are you still stuck in the last Century?

 

"Other clubs same as us get out of the league"................yes they do. Up and down. That's how football works.

 

Moaning about the past isn't going to change anything but you seem unable to understand that OAFC is only as good as its owners and they change and have changed since the period about which you are unhappy.

[Corporal_Jones]

Here we go with the tired old rhetoric.

 

You want ambition? How about £15k losses every week? Presumably that isn't enough for you?

 

 

And these losses will get lower as a perceived lack of ambition (whether justified or not; the league table and transfer market does not lie, however) causes the fanbase to crumble, will they? Less fans through the turnstiles would seem to equal less revenue to me. But what do I know?

Edited February 1, 2008 by Corporal_Jones

[Corporal_Jones]

Look at last Season. Top of the League or rarely out of the top 6 and we were getting 5000 at home - sometimes less. We had one of the bigger payrolls in League One. People don't necessarily come if we are playing well and winning. They will if it is free but we can't even fill the ground at £2 a shot!

 

You are rightly unhappy that OAFC as a Club did not do more when we were in/ falling from the Premier League. I agree. But since then we have had 2 or 3 changes of ownership. The current regime have shown they are made of different stuff. They have shown that they are ambitious. They have shown that they are prepared to speculate (sensibly and not like Moore) to accumulate but so far, they have largely been let down by performances on the pitch.

 

Can you seriously not see a difference between this regime and the days of Stott, JWL etc or are you still stuck in the last Century?

 

"Other clubs same as us get out of the league"................yes they do. Up and down. That's how football works.

 

Moaning about the past isn't going to change anything but you seem unable to understand that OAFC is only as good as its owners and they change and have changed since the period about which you are unhappy.

 

 

 

As has been proved before, the fans will come if it looks like the club is serious. Last season was a strange one in that we started looking like relegation candidates, went on a brilliant run and then crumbled. The casual fan was beginning to take notice but was repelled by the 'same old Latics.' That's why only evidence of serious intent will convince the Oldham football public. Bottom half of the table all season does not, to them, look like serious intent. They are not interested, or even aware of who owns the club and what plaudits they might deserve; they look only at what goes on on the pitch.

 

I can, of course, see that we are in better hands than under previous regimes, but most people in Oldham cannot and do not care what club owners do or don't do. That's the way it is. They have to be won round, and the only way to do that is through success on the pitch.

 

And you're missing the point about other clubs no bigger than Latics getting out of this division. Football might well be 'up and down', but unless you get in on the 'ups,' you don't generate enough interest and you don't increase a fanbase.

Edited February 1, 2008 by Corporal_Jones

[Inspiral_Carpet]

And these losses will get lower as a perceived lack of ambition (whether justified or not; the league table and transfer market does not lie, however) causes the fanbase to crumble, will they? Less fans through the turnstiles would seem to equal less revenue to me. But what do I know?

 

Simple question. Do you think that having a squad that causes losses of £15k per week shows ambition and an attitude of "speculate to accumulate"?

 

Second simple question. Do you really think that the number of home fans increased significantly last Season when we were rarely out of the play-off positions and playing great football?

 

We were regularly playing in front of 5000 home fans or less. Personally, when we were top of the League last January, I remember standing there shaking my head at kick-off as we attracted a crowd of just over 6000 home fans for a top of the table clash against Bristol City.

 

Even under the Moore-sponsored Dowie days, the home fans didn't increase that much. Have a look at the facts instead of making things up to fit with your argument.

[oafcprozac]

As has been proved before, the fans will come if it looks like the club is serious. Last season was a strange one in that we started looking like relegation candidates, went on a brilliant run and then crumbled. The casual fan was beginning to take notice but was repelled by the 'same old Latics.' That's why only evidence of serious intent will convince the Oldham football public. Bottom half of the table all season does not, to them, look like serious intent. They are not interested, or even aware of who owns the club and what plaudits they might deserve; they look only at what goes on on the pitch.

 

I can, of course, see that we are in better hands than under previous regimes, but most people in Oldham cannot and do not care what club owners do or don't do. That's the way it is. They have to be won round, and the only way to do that is through success on the pitch.

 

And you're missing the point about other clubs no bigger than Latics getting out of this division. Football might well be 'up and down', but unless you get in on the 'ups,' you don't generate enough interest and you don't increase a fanbase.

 

 

We had serious intent under Chris Moore, Wadsworth and Dowie and STILL struggled to get over 6,000, face it most of the tosspots in this town are in the Last Orders, Walkabout, Litten Tree etc on a satdy afternoon watching YOONITED and CITEH on Sky or Messrs Stelling, Merson, McInally and Kamara. This coupled with you can watch Premiership football at City, (now down the road on the 82 bus route) Bolton, Wigan and Blackburn for a similar season ticket price as BP. The floaters will only come back for big games. Even under Royle when we played some fantastic football we onlly ever got 6-7500 before the good times rolled. Then after we had clicked and began to stagnate with our remarkable fall from grace our normal premiership attendance vs the bread and butter teams fluctuated between 9-12,000. Face it we have between 4,500-6,000 hardcore, the rest are an all too occasional bonus.

Edited February 1, 2008 by oafcprozac

[Inspiral_Carpet]

As has been proved before, the fans will come if it looks like the club is serious.

 

And you're missing the point about other clubs no bigger than Latics getting out of this division. Football might well be 'up and down', but unless you get in on the 'ups,' you don't generate enough interest and you don't increase a fanbase.

 

When has it been proved that they come? The pinch me years? That was over 15 years ago at a time when any Club could compete because there wasn't so much TV money swilling around.

 

I'm missing the point? I'm pretty certain that we have been trying incredibly hard to get out of this division over the last 2 or 3 years and nearly achieved it last Season. The fact you continually fail to see that we are speculating on that by losing significant money week in and week out suggests to me that you are the one who is missing the point.

[Corporal_Jones]

Simple question. Do you think that having a squad that causes losses of £15k per week shows ambition and an attitude of "speculate to accumulate"?

 

Second simple question. Do you really think that the number of home fans increased significantly last Season when we were rarely out of the play-off positions and playing great football?

 

We were regularly playing in front of 5000 home fans or less. Personally, when we were top of the League last January, I remember standing there shaking my head at kick-off as we attracted a crowd of just over 6000 home fans for a top of the table clash against Bristol City.

 

Even under the Moore-sponsored Dowie days, the home fans didn't increase that much. Have a look at the facts instead of making things up to fit with your argument.

 

 

 

Already answered most of this in my previous post, including the unarguable fact that crowds were steadily rising in the seasons where the club looked serious about promotion. It might not be much, but 6800 is certainly better than 4200. Are are you saying that published crowds statistics are fabricated?

 

And guess what-iincreasing the home crowd by a few thousand goes at least some way to cutting those losses you keep rattling on about. Magic!

 

I don't see the logic of the argument that weekly losses means that we have to accept a situation where, due to serving up football that not enough people want to come and watch...we continue to make weekly losses! Give that man a cigar.

[daznathe]

Daz - You and I debated Gregan's performances virtually every monday morning this Season and you were totally unwilling to acknowledge that his form improved and by the time he was injured, had put in several man of the match displays. You also seem to still be critical of Crossley despite the fact he's won us several points recently.

 

It isn't surprising therefore when people question your opinion as you are so blinkered in your views.

 

Clearly you give up a lot to watch Latics. Try and see the positives and I'm sure that you will enjoy it more. Or are you building up to another announcement soon that you are not going to the games anymore? At the time it read like a childish hissy-fit and it seems that you are carrying on despite a couple of good signings and a convincing win on Tuesday night.

 

i remember it well, but clearly you dont as before gregans injury i did acknowledge that his performances had improved and wondered aloud whether he was benefitting from someone with pace alongside him (ruuuuuuuuubes), he also stopped trying to turn the attacker on his 18 yard line which was the biggest annoyance i had. i imagine he might not be far from fitness and that may have played a part in trotters leaving so heres hoping and i am always prepared to acknowledge a mistake.

with regards to crossley i know hes a decent shot stopper but i bet if you said to him whats the golden rule of keeping and he'll say something about not being beaten on his near post like he was by beckett and has been quite a few times. i hate martin oneill but i agree with his sweeper/ keeper aproach (catching or punching everything at least 8 yards from gol) and crossley doesnt do this so im probably going to be of the same opinion on him always.

my hissy fit was at the time a half joke but with hindsight i can see it must have had some breeding, where did that post go anyway i cant find it?

i suppose im just annoyed that i expected us to spend £300k+ on killer and a striker and keep trotters and all 3 didnt happen, but reading this thread (and ignoring your blinkers jibe!) makes me see that all isnt so bad afterall and, hey, isnt that what this place is for?