a moan

[Corporal_Jones]

If you think mere existence is meaningless, you're a completely different kind of supporter to me. Isn't that about all supporting a club like Oldham is about - isn't it part of the culture and identity of supporting a team who'll probably never win anything? We've been around over a hundred years without winning any major honours.

 

 

 

Limping along merely existing is the reason why we have been so close to going to the wall. In these days, when top-class football is available to anybody who subscribes to satellite television, or lives near a pub that does, no-hope football fails to ignite sufficient interest to make such clubs viable concerns.

Edited February 4, 2008 by Corporal_Jones

[Corporal_Jones]

...and in the comedy corner is Mrs Jones - you know what I mean. Trying to degrade my position with daft quips and japes is not very mature. You've put up a brave fight, and clearly against general opinion - don't make a fool out of yourself now...

 

 

 

Don't be so touchy. It was nothing more than a mild quip.

 

I still don't see how we are 'moving in the direction of Wigan,' however. As far as I can see, the situation at the two clubs is entirely different in almost every way and has been ever since Whelen got hold of them. They've achieved what they have in a way that could not be more different to the strategy that people on here seem to be able to discern and choose to place their faith in.

[Corporal_Jones]

I'm pointing out that all of your requests need cash. Long term revenue.

 

How do we get the crowds in? How do we develop the playing staff? How do we progress? All I'm hearing from you - even when there's a plan in the pipeline - is OAFC RIP. Prioritise business targets, aim to achieve. Do not plan to fail. The building blocks are there to springboard us to success, let's look to a stable future with prospects in the long term rather than a short term cash injection. I don't want that again thankyou very much. We nearly lost our club for ever.

 

 

 

As I say, I haven't made any specific requests though. I have merely questioned this so-called plan, and pointed out the flaws of relying on something that might not even exist.

[Matt]

In these days, when top-class football is available to anybody who subscries to satellite television, or lives near a pub that does, no-hope football fails to ignite sufficient interest to make such clubs viable concerns.

If we're going to digress, might as well go the whole way. Super League is on Sky peak time Friday/Saturday evening - crowd attendances are up year-on-year.

 

What is the potential solution as it is at the moment?

Plan for the new stadium.

Prioritise business targets, aim to achieve - do not plan to fail.

Stable future with revenue prospects in the long term rather than a short term cash injection - s**t or bust scenario.

 

What was that? You don't believe we should pin our hopes on this plan? Okay.

 

What are our alternatives?

[Matt]

As I say, I haven't made any specific requests though. I have merely questioned this so-called plan, and pointed out the flaws of relying on something that might not even exist.

What are our alternatives?

[Corporal_Jones]

I can't quite grasp who exactly you're getting at here. Is it the owners not 'committing' enough? Is it the manager, apparently not bring enough players through the door? Perhaps the players we're really after are just asking for that bit too much? The players we let go in the summer - how much did they want financially to stay here? Was it a lot more than the owners or manager deemed they were worth?

 

I think you need to answer all THOSE questions BEFORE you embark on your rants corpral. Over and out.

 

 

 

I haven't ranted-the tone of what I've written has been reasonable throughout and its theme boils down to the fact that people seem to be unconcerned about a present that offers no prospects in terms of progress in the league, while placing all their hopes in an hypothetical future based on a successfully-operating financially self-sufficient club. The 'plan' may be real, but to neglect present concerns-not least the need for a stable squad containing the same quality players for more than one season-brings additional problems, which are already obvious when you look at the size of the present home crowd, and could, in the worst-case scenario, damage the intentions of the long-term plan. For example, relegation would result in further loss of revenue eating into any new funds generated.

Edited February 4, 2008 by Corporal_Jones

[Corporal_Jones]

Just for the record, I can't be arsed reading anymore of Corporals ramblings.

 

Anyone who thinks the club lacks ambition, who thinks we should go throwing ridiculous money at it to which very few guarantees are on offer and increasing a currently managable loss (only coz TTA are prepared to do it) and thinks that splashing cash all over the place will bring in the stayaways (which for the small number that would return, wouldn't help cover the losses as they then would've massively increased beyond control) is in cloud-cuckooland. And if success still doesn't come, how long do we do it for??? Till the end of time????

 

I've a mate who feels the same as CJ.....but he doesn't have the same, abject, wrist-slitting outlook CJ has....quite the opposite, his optimism is beyond belief at times....but even he was slagging off the idea that we have to wait now until the stadium is redevloped for some serious cash to be spent on the side, rather than the calculated gambles we have to take to stay solvent (well, solvent thanks to TTA footing the debt.) Saying TTA have the money, if they want us up, is a bogus argument....we've seen the examples. Our own history has shown that....but then you can easily point out the number of seasons the following have/had been throwing money at it....took 3 of them 3 years or more before they finally did it.....the rest still haven't.....

 

B.City (massive crowds)

Wigan (multi-millionaire happy to splash it without a thought to if he ever left)

QPR (brink of administration for years until Mettel arrived)

Forest (massive crowds) and even...

Donny (multi-millionaire happy to splash it without a thought to if he ever left)

 

Those who feel TTA just aren't doing enough, just aren't ambitious enough etc. and still refute the above simply don't want to listen to reason. I'm no happy clapper....I'm pig-sick at still being at this level....but the reasons are as clear as day, unless you're blind, of course! And have to be accepted if we want a club to exist. I do....CJ clearly isn't arsed about the repercussions and seems happen to threaten existence. What's the point on debating with someone with that outlook? IMO...there isn't one.

 

 

 

You seem to have left out those clubs who managed to sail past us without the benefit of multi-millionaire owners or 'massive' crowds like, ahem, Bristol City and the 'massive 11,000 or so they regularly had in this division.

 

And I haven't thought about slitting my wrists once.

 

Your opening sentence has, however, been put 'on record' by the Messageboard Monitoring Commission.

Edited February 4, 2008 by Corporal_Jones

[Matt]

If we're going to digress, might as well go the whole way. Super League is on Sky peak time Friday/Saturday evening - crowd attendances are up year-on-year.

 

What is the potential solution as it is at the moment?

Plan for the new stadium.

Prioritise business targets, aim to achieve - do not plan to fail.

Stable future with revenue prospects in the long term rather than a short term cash injection - s**t or bust scenario.

 

What was that? You don't believe we should pin our hopes on this plan? Okay.

 

What are our alternatives?

 

 

What are our alternatives?

Okay - we'll question the plan - what are the alternatives for a mid 3 div team with 4000 home fans and no money?

[Corporal_Jones]

If we're going to digress, might as well go the whole way. Super League is on Sky peak time Friday/Saturday evening - crowd attendances are up year-on-year.

 

 

 

Different game, different history and development, fewer clubs.

[Corporal_Jones]

Okay - we'll question the plan - what are the alternatives for a mid 3 div team with 4000 home fans and no money?

 

 

 

One minute people are claiming that TTA have told Shez that money is available, the next there is none. One moment somebody claims we have only 4,000 home fans, the next we are, apparently, averaging 6500.

 

The argument is going round in circles now. I've already explained the risks of pinning all our hopes on a plan that, as far as money being ploughed into the football side goes, may or may not exist and how, in a situation where the local public is almost entirely unaware of any such plan and sees only a club that seems uninterested in making progress, crowds will dwindle further, thus exacerbating current financial problems. (Which does, of course, store up terrible trouble should 'the plan' hit the buffers.)

[Matt]

And the alternatives are?

[Corporal_Jones]

What is the potential solution as it is at the moment?

Plan for the new stadium.

Prioritise business targets, aim to achieve - do not plan to fail.

Stable future with revenue prospects in the long term rather than a short term cash injection - s**t or bust scenario.

 

What was that? You don't believe we should pin our hopes on this plan? Okay.

 

 

 

Where can this plan be scrutinised?

 

Is it written down anywhere?

[Matt]

Take "The Plan" as year-on-year revenue from stadium and surrounding area development. It's a plan. On paper. Not in existence. The holiest...

 

But our alternatives are?

[Corporal_Jones]

And the alternatives are?

 

 

 

I've already spent several pages talking about the necessity of a settled squad, with quality players being retained, as the prerequisite of a serious promotion push. About such a push being the only way of winning back lapsed fans and expanding the fan base. And about how speculating in order to accumulate doesn't necessarily involve taking a club to the brink of extinction.

 

There is a limit to how many different ways you can say all this.

[Corporal_Jones]

Take "The Plan" as year-on-year revenue from stadium and surrounding area development. It's a plan. On paper. Not in existence. The holiest...

 

But our alternatives are?

 

 

 

It does seem that people tend, in this case, to confuse plans with mere rumour and conjecture.

[Matt]

It does seem that people tend, in this case, to confuse plans with mere rumour and conjecture.

And your alternative is based on which business model?

 

So we have a mid table squad at best, with no cash. How do we get promotion with a mid table squad?

[Inspiral_Carpet]

Firstly, please don't take this as notice I want to rejoin the debate with you. I'd had enough the other day when you constantly changed tack whenever your arguments were exposed as flawed and then resorted to the "Happy Clapper" mantra. I've watched today as you continue to write drivel while sitting with your fingers in your ears despite cohesive argument against your mystifying points.

 

I've already spent several pages talking about the necessity of a settled squad, with quality players being retained, as the prerequisite of a serious promotion push.

 

Absolutely. The problem is, we are losing £15k per week so how do we fund this retention of players like Wellens; Porter; Kilkenny etc who clearly wanted to go. Don't forget, Wellens and Kilkenny also went for footballing reasons. Same as Trotman which is why this debate started in the first place. As you have been told several times, Bosman has changed the face of football completely.

 

About such a push being the only way of winning back lapsed fans and expanding the fan base.

 

Again, it was pointed out on numerous occasions that the Crowds did not return last Season when we were top of the League and/ or in the Play-off positions. Not once did our average reach the break-even point of 7800. Let's face it, we didn't even sell out the home ends for the Play Off Semi - a point where we were within 3 games of promotion. For the same matter, we didn't sell out in the POSF in the Dowie/ Moore era either and then we could attract the best that there was available to Boundary Park due to the Owner's largesse. Similarly, the average crowd then didn't hit 8000.

 

An important fact but you don't do those do you?

 

And about how speculating in order to accumulate doesn't necessarily involve taking a club to the brink of extinction.

 

Really? All you have done is trot out stuff from the past and made comparisons with "similar sized teams" many of which are now back at our level. Getting a settled team is crucial I agree but you need a bit of luck too with injuries etc. That's why the likes of Scunthorpe; Southend and Colchester got promoted with relatively small squads. But instead, you refer to the likes of Bolton - a different era and as FMS said, they struck gold. The problems you talk about at Oldham were back then when we were in/ fell from the Premier League. We've missed the boat so why keep harping back to it?

 

You seem to think you have found the magic formula. You could make a fortune by telling people what it is. But you can't and that is where all your credibility falls into a big heap alongside your single track argument.

 

There is a limit to how many different ways you can say all this.

 

That was my thought exactly the other day which is why I left you to your ramblings. There is only one person who changes tack every five minutes and refuses to listen to reason. Any guesses who that may be?

 

In general, you talk about the bleak future because of lack of progress. It's your main point and is totally groundless (sic).

 

Let's look at the facts:-

 

Starting position not very good. Club in Administration and restructured as OAFC (2004) Ltd. Squad ripped apart and we avoided relegation on final day of Season. Next Season saw brief flirtation with play-off places but we finished mid Table.

 

Land and ground was bought back. Manager was changed. Rebuilding squad started since most realised one left by RM were not capable of playing decent football. Topped League; finished in play-offs. More personnel changed but Owners showed ambition by buying players like Sean Gregan; Craig Davies; Michael Ricketts (mistake); Lee Hughes. Also brought in Kilkenny and Bertrand on loan and they didn't come cheap. Latterly Jarrett and Livermore and very nearly, two strikers. We didn't get them but we'll get a striker or two on loan I'm certain. It is all a clear indication that we want to get out of the League and not stay in League One. Also planning permission granted which meant that longer term plans could be continued (see Harry Dowd's excellent post for what that plan is).

 

We are miles further forward in 2008 than we were in 2004. Problem is, you can't see the progress or ambition. Your argument is single-tracked and despite numerous efforts from a variety of sensible posters, you prove you aren't prepared to listen to fact and reason.

 

Your credibility is shot and you are making yourself look foolish in my opinion.

[garcon]

An excellent post Inspiral. Covers just about everything. Debate won by an absolute whitewash.

 

Corporal - please, just don't waste your breath. No-one's listening anymore.

[Corporal_Jones]

Firstly, please don't take this as notice I want to rejoin the debate with you. I'd had enough the other day when you constantly changed tack whenever your arguments were exposed as flawed and then resorted to the "Happy Clapper" mantra. I've watched today as you continue to write drivel while sitting with your fingers in your ears despite cohesive argument against your mystifying points.

Absolutely. The problem is, we are losing £15k per week so how do we fund this retention of players like Wellens; Porter; Kilkenny etc who clearly wanted to go. Don't forget, Wellens and Kilkenny also went for footballing reasons. Same as Trotman which is why this debate started in the first place. As you have been told several times, Bosman has changed the face of football completely.

Again, it was pointed out on numerous occasions that the Crowds did not return last Season when we were top of the League and/ or in the Play-off positions. Not once did our average reach the break-even point of 7800. Let's face it, we didn't even sell out the home ends for the Play Off Semi - a point where we were within 3 games of promotion. For the same matter, we didn't sell out in the POSF in the Dowie/ Moore era either and then we could attract the best that there was available to Boundary Park due to the Owner's largesse. Similarly, the average crowd then didn't hit 8000.

 

An important fact but you don't do those do you?

Really? All you have done is trot out stuff from the past and made comparisons with "similar sized teams" many of which are now back at our level. Getting a settled team is crucial I agree but you need a bit of luck too with injuries etc. That's why the likes of Scunthorpe; Southend and Colchester got promoted with relatively small squads. But instead, you refer to the likes of Bolton - a different era and as FMS said, they struck gold. The problems you talk about at Oldham were back then when we were in/ fell from the Premier League. We've missed the boat so why keep harping back to it?

 

You seem to think you have found the magic formula. You could make a fortune by telling people what it is. But you can't and that is where all your credibility falls into a big heap alongside your single track argument.

That was my thought exactly the other day which is why I left you to your ramblings. There is only one person who changes tack every five minutes and refuses to listen to reason. Any guesses who that may be?

 

In general, you talk about the bleak future because of lack of progress. It's your main point and is totally groundless (sic).

 

Let's look at the facts:-

 

Starting position not very good. Club in Administration and restructured as OAFC (2004) Ltd. Squad ripped apart and we avoided relegation on final day of Season. Next Season saw brief flirtation with play-off places but we finished mid Table.

 

Land and ground was bought back. Manager was changed. Rebuilding squad started since most realised one left by RM were not capable of playing decent football. Topped League; finished in play-offs. More personnel changed but Owners showed ambition by buying players like Sean Gregan; Craig Davies; Michael Ricketts (mistake); Lee Hughes. Also brought in Kilkenny and Bertrand on loan and they didn't come cheap. Latterly Jarrett and Livermore and very nearly, two strikers. We didn't get them but we'll get a striker or two on loan I'm certain. It is all a clear indication that we want to get out of the League and not stay in League One. Also planning permission granted which meant that longer term plans could be continued (see Harry Dowd's excellent post for what that plan is).

 

We are miles further forward in 2008 than we were in 2004. Problem is, you can't see the progress or ambition. Your argument is single-tracked and despite numerous efforts from a variety of sensible posters, you prove you aren't prepared to listen to fact and reason.

 

Your credibility is shot and you are making yourself look foolish in my opinion.

 

 

 

The fact that you claim not to want to rejoin the debate and then proceed to re-enter it once more would seem to sum up the confusion of mind that sees you, and others, apparently get so unreasonably upset about the very reasonable points I've made throughout-which is what causes you to again reiterate arguments that have been answered several times over during the thread.

 

For instance, you once again wheel out the 'losing £15k a week' argument as a justification for the fact that, in football terms, the club is going nowhere, when it has already been pointed out at least half a dozen times that the losses will only get bigger as the Oldham public-who are, as also noted, entirely unaware of the fabled 'plan'- fails to be inspired enough by mediocrity to get along to BP, and so (wait for it...) ease the financial plight. This is, again as noted, a vicious circle that can only be broken by keeping together for more than a season a stable squad containing quality players. Yes it would involve an extra financial outlay-but not necessarily a drastic one, and one that would hopefully be recouped by success. It is a dilemma faced by most clubs and only the boldest and most creative break out of it. You claim to be able to see the need for a stable squad-yet only reiterate why we can't have one. Well, the bad news is that without one-and one that looks serious about promotion-the public is not going to show sufficient interest. This might boost the holier-than-thou attitude of certain die-hard supporters, but it will not help the club, especially if things regarding the stadium do not go according to (cough) plan.

 

That's just one example of the way that you and several others simply reiterate the same things over and again while offering no evidence, which is all you have done here. 'Fact and reason' simply don't come into it.

 

To claim that I think I've found a magic formula is, furthermore, absolutely laughable when the opposing arguments are solely based around a plan that nobody even knows for sure exists. Talk about putting all your eggs in one basket.

 

 

And yes-I'm well aware of the advances for the club achieved by the TTA. Unfortunately, all of it is in the area of off-the-field activities. In fooballing terms we are no further forward than we were under Andy Ritchie-another manager who had the team playing good football near the bottom of the table. The Oldham populace wasn't interested then either.

Edited February 4, 2008 by Corporal_Jones

[garcon]

*click*

 

 

That's better. My computer was droning.

[boundaryblue80]

You seem to have left out those clubs who managed to sail past us without the benefit of multi-millionaire owners or 'massive' crowds like, ahem, Bristol City and the 'massive 11,000 or so they regularly had in this division.

 

And I haven't thought about slitting my wrists once.

 

Your opening sentence has, however, been put 'on record' by the Messageboard Monitoring Commission.

 

Thought I'd see if you had replied with more ramblings, whilst hoping that something from my post might actually have sunk in.....but nope, more of the same ramblings, but as it was only a quick paragraph of gobbledegook that you offered this time, I thought I'd respond....

 

I left out Bristol City did I??? Check the list of teams I mentioned. They're in it....and "ahem, Bristol City and the 'massive 11,000'".....if you don't think 11,000 is massive for 3rd tier football there is something seriously, seriously wrong with you fella! Likewise if you think we can ever achieve that regularly, with or without the same squad for stability for the next X amount of years! Which I can just about see as your only offered solution in your ramblings!

 

Here's the massive flaw your "solution" has though....

 

The very same people you think will be interested, might just as easily class the lack of influx of fresh players as a lack of ambition. If we keep the same squad (guarantees success does it?....not saying your idea is wrong, I'd like a level of stability in it but I understand why we don't get to have it) and just kept the current players (ie. Porter, Wellens etc) they might as easily state that "they weren't good enough to get us up last season, why should they be this season?" You might counter and say you want to keep them and add to it. I argued that under Moore.....but a manager change happened. You could say Shez had the chance in the Summer of 2007....he did, but at what price? Most of the budget unfortunately (we have to stick to one, it's not unambitious, it's common sense) and he didn't want to do that as he wanted his own team, his own spine, his own players....so that questions if he was right and goes into another subject over "is he good enough to succeed as manager".....the discussion all interlinks.

 

The sad fact though is that it is any old excuse is reeled out by this public (the apathetic Oldham public) that you say is supposedly not in knowledge of the clubs future plan of making us self-reliant. Why are they not in knowledge of it? If anything.....the recent planning application/constant press through November and December showed the ambition of the club. The answer is....They don't want to hear it....they'd rather switch on their SKY and drum it out and thus our future lies without them and in building such stadium, so we don't need them.

 

As it is....as long as Shez goes nowhere, I seriously can see us getting the chance for Shez to have a budget whereby we keep the majority of the current side and add to it this summer as should've happened IMO in Summer 2006. Bringing the stability you cry, the fresh blood to push on and so maybe next January, we won't have this circle of discussion if it works. Circumstances have meant the budget hasn't been there in the past....not lack of ambition.....but I'm sure if what I predict, happens in Summer 2008 and we're not up there in the league though, you'll have some other reason as to why we ain't showing ambition.

 

The truth....you don't have the definitive solution. Hey...I don't either. But to call their ambition is a bit sickening to me....I'd say they're extremely ambitious to try and deliver a stadium the clubs been after for over a decade of wranglings with this council. I know I'd rather hope for a Stadium to be built, hope for TTA to keep bailing us out while we wait for it and hope their calculated gambles work out whilst allowing us to keep down the losses at a minimum. I'd rather that than gamble even further, push up the losses and see us fail to go up anyway and then be worse off and threaten our existence. Especially when you don't even believe in TTA's Stadium plan to inject money into us once we're self reliant......infact, it'd be ludicrous for them to do it! And ludicrous for you to want them to, if you don't believe in "The plan." Unless of course, you don't give a about the club going under & want us back in severe financial poo!!! It's how you make it sound.

Edited February 5, 2008 by boundaryblue80

[Matt]

The truth....you don't have the definitive solution. Hey...I don't either. But to call their ambition is a bit sickening to me....I'd say they're extremely ambitious to try and deliver a stadium the clubs been after for over a decade of wranglings with this council. I know I'd rather hope for a Stadium to be built, hope for TTA to keep bailing us out while we wait for it and hope their calculated gambles work out whilst allowing us to keep down the losses at a minimum. I'd rather that than gamble even further, push up the losses and see us fail to go up anyway and then be worse off and threaten our existence. Especially when you don't even believe in TTA's Stadium plan to inject money into us once we're self reliant......infact, it'd be ludicrous for them to do it! And ludicrous for you to want them to, if you don't believe in "The plan." Unless of course, you don't give a about the club going under & want us back in severe financial poo!!! It's how you make it sound.

Exactly.

 

If I_C's post was the definitive in swinging cross, then Ross' post scissor kicked it into the top corner...

 

That's just one example of the way that you and several others simply reiterate the same things over and again while offering no evidence, which is all you have done here. 'Fact and reason' simply don't come into it.

I ceratinly don't have hard facts, because I'm not part of the development team - but there is a business plan - and one we can support. I do have reasonable belief that their collective business-noggins have an idea how to progress. I also know that we dont' have much in the way of alternatives, it's not like we've got multiple options at our fingertips for success.

 

To claim that I think I've found a magic formula is, furthermore, absolutely laughable

 

..the necessity of a settled squad, with quality players being retained, as the prerequisite of a serious promotion push. About such a push being the only way of winning back lapsed fans and expanding the fan base....

or in other words...

 

"Oh, nah - stuff the TTA - let's do it this way - there's no risk at all! We'll hang on to our mid-table squad, we'll pluck a "small initial outlay" from the nearest money tree to maintain it, and hope that we get some results to catapult us up the league - Hey, the 4,600 (for arguments sake) will turn into a profitable 8,000! It's a sinch!"

*Snaps fingers*

 

I think you might have something there, why the hell didn't we think of that before?

 

We did - however it's got more holes in it than a Swiss cheese.

 

Stand aside TTA-sceptic - you're in the way...

[Frankly Mr Shankly]

The fact that you claim not to want to rejoin the debate and then proceed to re-enter it once more would seem to sum up the confusion of mind that sees you, and others, apparently get so unreasonably upset about the very reasonable points I've made throughout

 

Ever thought that maybe the points you've been trying to make are mostly without foundation, without an viable alternative and are all made by pure guesswork from somebody outside the club. This could be why you're in the extreme minority in your thinking and why the majority are growing tired of your, erm, 'reasoned' (if ya say so) arguement. Just a thought like.

 

Yet the major facts seem elusive to you. The progress we've already made in the last 4 seasons. For me TTA have proved beyond any doubt that their heart is in it. Sure, the odd dummy spitting aside from SC, but they've stuck at it and financially backed every manager that's come in, or at least backed what they thought was neccessary. We've missed a little bit of luck along the way, but all the time since 2004 we've slowly been putting those building blocks in place. Buying the land... getting the planning permission nailed down... And in the close season the broadway stand will more-than-likely be coming down and work begins on the new main stand. ALL these have far more priority than taking money from x (the developments on BP) and pushing it towards Y (Playing staff; retaining and building). OK, as a result we shall perhaps still be in this division maybe in a season, or maybe two. But I KNOW we'll be in a far stronger position to push on then, when all the building blocks are in place and Oldham Athletic's weekly income is much, much more than what it is now.

 

No-one has a crystal ball, so yes, you're perhaps right we may not see much progress on the pitch in the next couple of seasons. It's a possibility - change of manager, loss of momentum and a new guy has to come in and put HIS plan into place. But at the moment we're developing the momentum and IMO are just perhaps 2 or 3 good quality players short of a side that's more than good enough to get out of this division. Perhaps they'll come next season who's knows?

 

But there certainly isn't any real cause for worry or concern. People like you somehow seem to find some.

[leezyverpunk]

Is there any posts with just pictures?

[Frankly Mr Shankly]

And yes-I'm well aware of the advances for the club achieved by the TTA. Unfortunately, all of it is in the area of off-the-field activities.

 

Can you explain why that happens to be unfortunate?

 

In fooballing terms we are no further forward than we were under Andy Ritchie-another manager who had the team playing good football near the bottom of the table. The Oldham populace wasn't interested then either.

 

No? So you think the squad assembled in what, 1998-99 is, man for man better than the squad we have now? What if we had gone up last season and we're in the position Colchester are in now? Would we be better in footballing terms even though we'd be a division higher but facing an immediate return to this division to start again?

 

The bottom line of your debate is that we should spend more to either retain the likes of Kilkenny, Wellens or Trotman and also bring in players of better calibre or quality? Right? I agree in we need to retain some of these players, but if they go, they go. I wouldn't want us spending more than we should and potentially turning those big weekly losses into bigger weekly losses. Knowwarramean?