Diego_Sideburns Posted February 1, 2008 Share Posted February 1, 2008 In tonight's rarely wrong Chron (my highlighting): "Another youth-team product got his chance against Carlisle, with Lewis Alessandra replacing the injured Lee Hughes after only 12 minutes. Alessandra had very limited first-team experience, but he shone up front and will hope for more action tomorrow. At the same time, the 18-year-old needs to impress Athletic’s coaching staff when he is away from the heat of battle. Sheridan explained: “I was pleased with Lewis because his hold-up play was good and he brought other people into the game. “He didn’t let himself down at all, but I’ve told him he has got to work harder in training.” I thought he was outstanding on Tuesday but when I saw him in the strugging Reserves against Stoke City, he contributed very little to the team. Work harder Lewis like Trotman did and the world could be your lobster. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thetramfixer Posted February 1, 2008 Share Posted February 1, 2008 that's an interesting angle on it! makes you wonder if he could be even better than what we saw on tuesday? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alec1954 Posted February 1, 2008 Share Posted February 1, 2008 that's an interesting angle on it! makes you wonder if he could be even better than what we saw on tuesday? If the guy does it in the first team..who cares about training? Conversely, are we only going to play yes men and those who train hard? What has happened to skill? I guess it is down to man management.... and dare I say that is why so few came through via Mr Urmson. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigfinLatic Posted February 1, 2008 Share Posted February 1, 2008 If the guy does it in the first team..who cares about training? Conversely, are we only going to play yes men and those who train hard? What has happened to skill? I guess it is down to man management.... and dare I say that is why so few came through via Mr Urmson. Err, yeah, suppose whaen you have Ronaldo in your side you couldnt give a damn what he does in training... however if you are an 18 year old kid, trying to make your first break then surely you have to bust a gut to get anywhere.... theres plently more willing to take your place.... Shez is right - this kid needs to improve, and if he isnt giving his all in training and the ressies, then he should be.... then he will more than justify his starting place... when he becomes a world beater by the time he is 20, then he can mess about... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LaticsPete Posted February 1, 2008 Share Posted February 1, 2008 If the guy does it in the first team..who cares about training? Conversely, are we only going to play yes men and those who train hard? What has happened to skill? I guess it is down to man management.... and dare I say that is why so few came through via Mr Urmson. Sorry Alec but Billy Urmson's record at bringing kids through stands comparison with anyone. He was respected by every manager he worked under at BP, and by players, managers, and coaches at other clubs too. He was a taskmaster but he devloped many league players. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RoytonBlueLad Posted February 1, 2008 Share Posted February 1, 2008 “He didn’t let himself down at all, but I’ve told him he has got to work harder in training.”[/i] I thought he was outstanding on Tuesday but when I saw him in the strugging Reserves against Stoke City, he contributed very little to the team. Work harder Lewis like Trotman did and the world could be your lobster. He does get some right rollockings in the reserves from the coaching staff. Certainly has this year but they all have. He was good at that level last year but it's been a lot tougher on them all this year with us moving to Central. Add to that with our forwards hardly getting a kick at reserve level this year and maybe the first team chance has given him something to seize upon now Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oafc0000 Posted February 1, 2008 Share Posted February 1, 2008 Err, yeah, suppose whaen you have Ronaldo in your side you couldnt give a damn what he does in training... however if you are an 18 year old kid, trying to make your first break then surely you have to bust a gut to get anywhere.... theres plently more willing to take your place.... Shez is right - this kid needs to improve, and if he isnt giving his all in training and the ressies, then he should be.... then he will more than justify his starting place... when he becomes a world beater by the time he is 20, then he can mess about... We wouldnt know about Ronaldo if he had never shown it in a reserve / youth team somewhere.....Shez is right, if he isnt doing it in training then his chance wont come.....you have to work hard on and off the pitch....a young 18 year lad should be kicking the managers door down on a weekly basis saying PICK ME!!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oafc0000 Posted February 1, 2008 Share Posted February 1, 2008 Sorry Alec but Billy Urmson's record at bringing kids through stands comparison with anyone. He was respected by every manager he worked under at BP, and by players, managers, and coaches at other clubs too. He was a taskmaster but he devloped many league players. Carl Serrant and Chris Makin come through under Urmston didnt they ? To name just two.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Diego_Sideburns Posted February 1, 2008 Author Share Posted February 1, 2008 He does get some right rollockings in the reserves from the coaching staff. Certainly has this year but they all have. He was good at that level last year but it's been a lot tougher on them all this year with us moving to Central. Add to that with our forwards hardly getting a kick at reserve level this year and maybe the first team chance has given him something to seize upon now Dux says they must listen - they're all learning the job - they must pay attention to their game plan. http://www.oldhamathletic.premiumtv.co.uk/...1174922,00.html It's all obvious stuff, but when you're young the temptation is to expect things to happen without making them happen. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dfOAFC Posted February 1, 2008 Share Posted February 1, 2008 he looked like he'd been training perfectly well enough to me Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RoytonBlueLad Posted February 1, 2008 Share Posted February 1, 2008 (edited) Dux says they must listen - they're all learning the job - they must pay attention to their game plan. http://www.oldhamathletic.premiumtv.co.uk/...1174922,00.html It's all obvious stuff, but when you're young the temptation is to expect things to happen without making them happen. I'm not sure if we've gone too far though with regards to the league change. We've gone from one league where we cruised and now to one that is populated with some very strong squads. Some would be more than capable of winning League One. Hopefully despite us not winning any, when the youngsters come in the football will come naturally enough and they'll be more than able to deal with the physical elements of the game that are a lot more of a feature in the reserve league we now play in. Edited February 1, 2008 by RoytonBlueLad Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Diego_Sideburns Posted February 1, 2008 Author Share Posted February 1, 2008 I'm not sure if we've gone too far though with regards to the league change. We've gone from one league where we cruised and now to one that is populated with some very strong squads. Some would be more than capable of winning League One. Hopefully despite us not winning any, when the youngsters come in the football will come naturally enough and they'll be more than able to deal with the physical elements of the game that are a lot more of a feature in the reserve league we now play in. Some of the squads are strong, but we've also lost against Port Vale, Shrewsbury, Stockport and failed to beat Bury. We should be making it more of a contest. Having said that three B.A.L.L.S. are off to watch the Reserves play WBA at Kidderminster Harriers on Monday night - another new ground. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
garcon Posted February 1, 2008 Share Posted February 1, 2008 I think we've done absolutely the right thing with the reserves. First season was always going to be difficult in a much harder league, but we will begin to see the benefits before long. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RoytonBlueLad Posted February 1, 2008 Share Posted February 1, 2008 Well yeah no excuses for that. Should be more of a contest given that. Just hope despite the results they're still improving as players and maybe taking different things on board to when we just steam rollered teams like at times last year. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thetramfixer Posted February 1, 2008 Share Posted February 1, 2008 you have to work hard on and off the pitch....a young 18 year lad should be kicking the managers door down on a weekly basis saying PICK ME!!!! 'taggart' was on tv at lunchtime and he was asked about gary neville... he was saying to the media that they have to restrict his training 'cause he goes all out even in training and they dont want that to cause him anymore problems.. i was certainly impressed with L-A on tuesday, and he could start for me on sat'day, but if not there is no point in him 'taking it easy' now he's got his chance... should be the opposite shouldn't it? play regular and keep fit and scoring in whichever team you happen to play in! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Latics4Ever Posted February 1, 2008 Share Posted February 1, 2008 If the guy does it in the first team..who cares about training? Conversely, are we only going to play yes men and those who train hard? What has happened to skill? I guess it is down to man management.... and dare I say that is why so few came through via Mr Urmson. To be honest the training pitch is where the ideas of what happens on a Saturday are formulated and prepared and the whole squad are drilled into knowing who is doing what, etc, etc. If LA isn't training correctly and others are doing what is required of them, then Shez is bound to pick those ahead of a non-trier. That ethos applies in all walks of life - Its also not a case of Yes men being picked or those who just train hard, but those you listen, digest and then display the training they have received are the players the manager should pick. What image would it portray if you picked someone who didn't do those things? That said, Alessandra was excellent on Tuesday and in view of Hughes' injury maybe he will grab the chance with both hands and realise that what he has been told about his attitude towards training is something he needs to heed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
boundaryblue80 Posted February 2, 2008 Share Posted February 2, 2008 To be honest the training pitch is where the ideas of what happens on a Saturday are formulated and prepared and the whole squad are drilled into knowing who is doing what, etc, etc. If LA isn't training correctly and others are doing what is required of them, then Shez is bound to pick those ahead of a non-trier. TBH, I think Shez actually has a nerve going public with this statement. Why? Coz what you say above L4E is spot on.....so when I see the corners we spout, the lame free-kicks we take and the half-arsed efforts at throw-ins I think talking publicly about who is doing what in training is a bit rich. He should be making that statement about Lewis, to Lewis, behind closed doors. Over the next few weeks, should Lewis not produce a display like that which he did on Tuesday, the fans will repeat that line of Shez's with "well, he must be a bit of a lazy-arse then....another Chris Hall etc etc."....when he's just a kid. When we've a climate where some fans will happily take the young kids coming through to task (ie. Smalleys abuse this seasons been embarrassing) it's a stupid comment. Especially, when the training pitch ain't producing anything at set-pieces for us....a vital area of the game. Pot and kettle Shez! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
boundaryblue80 Posted February 2, 2008 Share Posted February 2, 2008 Carl Serrant and Chris Makin come through under Urmston didnt they ? To name just two.... Paul Gerrard and Andy Hughes to name another two....plenty more I'm sure we could name....also reckon some of the kids who played in the dark years under Ritchie etc may have blossomed had they had chance to go out on loan elsewhere etc. before making the step up to our 1st team. Sadly they couldn't, they were all thrown in together and they struggled to swim. Most going down the flusher, with the few like Allott and Scott McNiven (for a short time) making a career out of it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
boundaryblue80 Posted February 2, 2008 Share Posted February 2, 2008 (edited) I think we've done absolutely the right thing with the reserves. First season was always going to be difficult in a much harder league, but we will begin to see the benefits before long. I think the move was the right thing but just the timing (which couldn't be foreseen) was sadly wrong. It's been down to bad luck, the curious releasing of player(s) and not building a big enough 1st team squad that's left the reserve team in tatters this season. Infact, I wrote this only the other day.... Kinda wished we hadn't let Holness go so readily. Especially now Trotters has moved on and our reserve team is absolutely bare to the bones now that we're relying on the likes of Deane and Alessandra etc in the 1st team. The kids stepping in now at reserve level really still should be in the youth set up and are getting trounced now we've moved into a stronger reserve league. Can't be good for them....suppose you could say, it might improve them....could knock them back though. Bad timing coz I reckon that normally our reserve side would cope with the stronger competition but not at present with the way the 1st teams needed to call on the reserve players so much. Tricky one. Quote from: http://www.owtb.co.uk/index.php?showtopic=...3&hl=league Edited February 2, 2008 by boundaryblue80 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Inspiral_Carpet Posted February 2, 2008 Share Posted February 2, 2008 TBH, I think Shez actually has a nerve going public with this statement. Why? Coz what you say above L4E is spot on.....so when I see the corners we spout, the lame free-kicks we take and the half-arsed efforts at throw-ins I think talking publicly about who is doing what in training is a bit rich. He should be making that statement about Lewis, to Lewis, behind closed doors. Over the next few weeks, should Lewis not produce a display like that which he did on Tuesday, the fans will repeat that line of Shez's with "well, he must be a bit of a lazy-arse then....another Chris Hall etc etc."....when he's just a kid. When we've a climate where some fans will happily take the young kids coming through to task (ie. Smalleys abuse this seasons been embarrassing) it's a stupid comment. Especially, when the training pitch ain't producing anything at set-pieces for us....a vital area of the game. Pot and kettle Shez! So Shez drops Alessandra after a couple of decent games due to his attitude in training (and the availability of Hughes/ Davies/ Clarke?) and guess what, us fans are demanding to know why! If he doesn't tell us, then guess what, we start to speculate and the next thing is there are rumours that he's eaten your (new) cat. He just can't win can he but I suppose that he will simply carry on as he has been doing which in general, is very supportive of the Team in public while being a strict disciplinarian behind the scenes. I suspect that Shez has had private words with LA quite regularly and perhaps this is a way of focussing his mind even more. Some players will react to certain things and others to alternate "motivation". Maybe Shez knows that LA is made of different stuff than say Smalley or Taylor and will actually respond to public criticism like Gregan, Crossley and Hughes have done. And let's face it, this isn't criticism but merely a mild rebuke and motivation to work harder. Different strokes for different folks. Where I totally agree is the set pieces in games. They are dire and presumably this has something to do with the routines in practise. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave_Og Posted February 2, 2008 Share Posted February 2, 2008 Reminds me of my school days. I was the only one in my year that got an 'A' in Governement, Economics & Commerce - (which I must say has stood me in very good stead over the years!). They gave a prize to somebody else on the grounds that I hadn't worked hard enough during the year. Not bitter or anything 30 years on...... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BP1960 Posted February 2, 2008 Share Posted February 2, 2008 I always say talent is not enough, but allied to a strong will to succeed it can be a powerful combination. Allesandra has talent, now it's up to him to show he has the determination to go on from here no matter what distractions come his way. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
boundaryblue80 Posted February 2, 2008 Share Posted February 2, 2008 (edited) So Shez drops Alessandra after a couple of decent games due to his attitude in training (and the availability of Hughes/ Davies/ Clarke?) and guess what, us fans are demanding to know why! If he doesn't tell us, then guess what, we start to speculate and the next thing is there are rumours that he's eaten your (new) cat. He just can't win can he but I suppose that he will simply carry on as he has been doing which in general, is very supportive of the Team in public while being a strict disciplinarian behind the scenes. I suspect that Shez has had private words with LA quite regularly and perhaps this is a way of focussing his mind even more. Some players will react to certain things and others to alternate "motivation". Maybe Shez knows that LA is made of different stuff than say Smalley or Taylor and will actually respond to public criticism like Gregan, Crossley and Hughes have done. And let's face it, this isn't criticism but merely a mild rebuke and motivation to work harder. Different strokes for different folks. Where I totally agree is the set pieces in games. They are dire and presumably this has something to do with the routines in practise. Not sure what drum you're beating lately IC, but again, like the other day....you're trying to fit two totally different situations together (dirty linen washing vs a well written piece of PR - which might only ever be a cover story - and now this one.) One circumstance had happened ie. Ricketts being sent packing, whereas one hasn't...the one you describe above about Lewis. There's no need to make them comments about a young kid who is only just having his debut today. If he dropped him in a few games time, then fair enough. Make the comments he has ONCE the event happens. The event you describe with Lewis hasn't happened yet to start rumours off unlike the Ricketts situation when I called for clarity. Again, utterly different circumstances. Edited February 2, 2008 by boundaryblue80 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Inspiral_Carpet Posted February 2, 2008 Share Posted February 2, 2008 Not sure what drum you're beating lately IC, but again, like the other day....you're trying to fit two totally different situations together (dirty linen washing vs a well written piece of PR - which might only ever be a cover story - and now this one.) One circumstance had happened ie. Ricketts being sent packing, whereas one hasn't...the one you describe above about Lewis. There's no need to make them comments about a young kid who is only just having his debut today. If he dropped him in a few games time, then fair enough. Make the comments he has ONCE the event happens. The event you describe with Lewis hasn't happened yet to start rumours off unlike the Ricketts situation when I called for clarity. Again, utterly different circumstances. No drum Ross. Don't agree with what you've put on a couple of occasions recently and while you may see no similarities, the underlying issue of Communication is the same. To be honest though, my point here was more tongue in cheek and I just wanted to have another pop at your cat. Remember under Ronnie when everyone used to analyse in fine detail every word that was printed? Well I just think some are trying to do the same at the moment with Shez. Possibly he regrets saying what he did and it can't be easy having a microphone shoved up your nose on a daily basis when he's confessed several times in the past that this makes him uncomfortable. We demand info and we've got LaticsWorld airtime to fill along with a very busy Official Site. Perhaps we are paying the price for modern day demands. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
boundaryblue80 Posted February 2, 2008 Share Posted February 2, 2008 No drum Ross. Don't agree with what you've put on a couple of occasions recently and while you may see no similarities, the underlying issue of Communication is the same. To be honest though, my point here was more tongue in cheek and I just wanted to have another pop at your cat. Remember under Ronnie when everyone used to analyse in fine detail every word that was printed? Well I just think some are trying to do the same at the moment with Shez. Possibly he regrets saying what he did and it can't be easy having a microphone shoved up your nose on a daily basis when he's confessed several times in the past that this makes him uncomfortable. We demand info and we've got LaticsWorld airtime to fill along with a very busy Official Site. Perhaps we are paying the price for modern day demands. TBH, people have being doing that with Shez from day one. As they were with his previous's. Just don't see the need to make such a comment about a kid who is making his debut. Just not a need at all to do it. IMO. And especially when it's about Training....when quite frankly, sometimes we don't look like we've been on a training pitch all week with the set-pieces we churn. It was a double-barrel point. I think Shez does get a lot of his comments over-analyzed. I rarely ever do it. On this one I am, coz I think it's utterly unnecessary this time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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