garcon Posted February 5, 2008 Share Posted February 5, 2008 (Taken out of the moan thread cos it may be worthy of separate discussion...) Talking of being backed by multi-millionaires... I have a theory that it's not what they're worth that is important, it's their approach. It generally follows one of two paths - the egotist or the businessman. The egotist throws his millions around to benefit 'his' club in the here and now and revels in his status as saviour but fails to implement a long term business plan and invariably ends up leaving the club in dire straits when either he gets bored or his millions suddenly disappear. Dave Whelan, Mike Ashley and (of course) Chris M**re spring to mind. The businessman implements a long term business plan and uses his nous, his experience and quite often his sheer bloody mindedness to build the club in a sustainable and long term way. He'll be in it for the long term himself, and although a football fan who knows he'll never make anything personally out of the venture, he keeps to the plan and enjoys the pleasure of watching it grow. Colin Gibson is probably the most prominent example, and I believe TTA fit this profile too. Funnily enough, despite the apparent evidence of millions being frittered away by the egotists, it is often the businessmen who are richer. (Abramovich being an obvious exception!). Any thoughts on this view of multi-millionaire owners, and how it relates to ours past and present? And as a cheeky aside, anyone care to idly speculate as to how the wealth of M**re and the TTA might match up? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
daznathe Posted February 5, 2008 Share Posted February 5, 2008 billionaires Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
real Posted February 5, 2008 Share Posted February 5, 2008 I think Moore was trying to be flash, but when he came in, he had a fair wedge behind him, but it was all tied up in Torex. At the time he came in it was the dot.com boom, and he was reckoned to be worth £200m. I'd guess he thought he could look flash, perhaps intending to spend £20m of his money on a plaything. However once those 2 planes hit NYC, the dot.com boom blew apart, and his Torex shares dropped to 25% of their value. His £200m became £50m Spending £20m out of £50m is a lot different than spending £20m out of £200m. It ended with him losing about £6m through latics - mainly signing fees and wages I'd guess. TTA might well be worth less than Moore was, but their assets are more solid, and having no "flash amounts" of money to spend means they have to be prudent, which is better for the club in many ways. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
leeslover Posted February 5, 2008 Share Posted February 5, 2008 Moore is minted again after getting another NHS monopoly supply contract and floating a large share of his business. Although we can hope that the investigation into his affairs changes all that for him. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Corporal_Jones Posted February 5, 2008 Share Posted February 5, 2008 (edited) (Taken out of the moan thread cos it may be worthy of separate discussion...) Talking of being backed by multi-millionaires... I have a theory that it's not what they're worth that is important, it's their approach. It generally follows one of two paths - the egotist or the businessman. The egotist throws his millions around to benefit 'his' club in the here and now and revels in his status as saviour but fails to implement a long term business plan and invariably ends up leaving the club in dire straits when either he gets bored or his millions suddenly disappear. Dave Whelan, Mike Ashley and (of course) Chris M**re spring to mind. The businessman implements a long term business plan and uses his nous, his experience and quite often his sheer bloody mindedness to build the club in a sustainable and long term way. He'll be in it for the long term himself, and although a football fan who knows he'll never make anything personally out of the venture, he keeps to the plan and enjoys the pleasure of watching it grow. Colin Gibson is probably the most prominent example, and I believe TTA fit this profile too. Funnily enough, despite the apparent evidence of millions being frittered away by the egotists, it is often the businessmen who are richer. (Abramovich being an obvious exception!). Any thoughts on this view of multi-millionaire owners, and how it relates to ours past and present? And as a cheeky aside, anyone care to idly speculate as to how the wealth of M**re and the TTA might match up? As an aside, I haven't noticed that Whelen is going anywhere. And far from being left in the lurch, Wigan seem to be pulling away from the Premier League relegation zone, with some household nmes playing for them in front of crowds ten times the size of what they were getting ten years ago. Edited February 5, 2008 by Corporal_Jones Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sheepfootredemption Posted February 5, 2008 Share Posted February 5, 2008 The TTA have set up another company to run their property at BP and set up OAFC as a stand alone company which has no real assets. These guys are in the game to make money not to feed their ego, hopefully they will not fall out amongst themselves. Since the purchase of OAFC althought they budget for a loss every season they have always had exceptional income come in to offset against that loss, cup runs, sky games player sales etc. Lets hope they stay with us once the whole land and stadium deal is complete. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Davros Posted February 5, 2008 Share Posted February 5, 2008 Moore is minted again after getting another NHS monopoly supply contract and floating a large share of his business. Although we can hope that the investigation into his affairs changes all that for him. Never forget his wise words before the QPR match outside the pub in reply to a latics fans question of will you be here next season if we lose - "Of Course"..... MUPPET!!! Although he nearly killed the club, he did provide us with cracking season.... if only he'd of kept with us an ploughed in a little more pennies where would we be now????? P.s Shameless plug look in the swap & trade board got a match worn shirt i wanna sell... take a look!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
garcon Posted February 5, 2008 Author Share Posted February 5, 2008 Actually, it may have been a bit unfair to put Whelan in the "egotists" camp (although he certainly has a strong ego). It will be interesting to see how Wigan fair if/when Whelan does sell up, and indeed if/when they get relegated (parachute payments allowing). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ackey Posted February 5, 2008 Share Posted February 5, 2008 Actually, it may have been a bit unfair to put Whelan in the "egotists" camp (although he certainly has a strong ego). It will be interesting to see how Wigan fair if/when Whelan does sell up, and indeed if/when they get relegated (parachute payments allowing). I get the feeling he's almost walked away several times from Wigan fans I know. He's much more in favour of the Ruggers than the football. If Wigan dropped I wouldn't be shocked to see him move on. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
leeslover Posted February 5, 2008 Share Posted February 5, 2008 The TTA have set up another company to run their property at BP and set up OAFC as a stand alone company which has no real assets. These guys are in the game to make money not to feed their ego, hopefully they will not fall out amongst themselves. Since the purchase of OAFC althought they budget for a loss every season they have always had exceptional income come in to offset against that loss, cup runs, sky games player sales etc. Lets hope they stay with us once the whole land and stadium deal is complete. Sorry but that is just not true. They have spent in excess of the budget they set themselves in several seasons – think of the signings of Charlton, Gregan and numerous unplanned loanees. We’ve had a couple of pay days in the Cup and some moderate income from sales of young players but it’s small beer compared to the losses. Remember also that they have been supporting a loss making stadium for several years longer than they ever planned. I find it absurd that they came into this to make money – the story of how New York based businessmen in the electronics industry spotted a plot of land in a run down East Lancs mill town and saw a chance of making a killing if they only shouldered the running costs of it’s run down football team for a decade would be fit for a striking Hollywood screenwriter to work on. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
boundaryblue80 Posted February 5, 2008 Share Posted February 5, 2008 (edited) I think Moore was trying to be flash, but when he came in The reason behind CM and what he did will be one of the all-time mysteries to me. A bit like why Harold Shipman did the things he did. Both.....I believe in my own mind, were "playing God".... Few will remember the name Bob Telfer. Having sat across a table with him and Alan Hardy in the boardroom at BP back in July 2001, it was clear something wasn't right in the club from day one when he and CM turned up. Bob was Moore's right-hand man. He was the one who spoke to anyone with questions and Moore was very, very rarely accessible in the boardroom. He loved the standing with the fans bit though....wouldn't be surprised if that was someone elses idea in the club! It then came about a few months after their arrival that Bob, CM's best mate, was terminally ill. I've always wondered if CM bought us as not his plaything, but for his mate, as though it was a wish to own or run a football club one day before he died. Once Bob died, I honestly feel Moore had no interest in us. And did what he did.....unfortunately, he didn't realise the effect it would have on thousands of others lives to do what he did. Edited February 5, 2008 by boundaryblue80 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
leeslover Posted February 5, 2008 Share Posted February 5, 2008 Whelan played in a FA Cup Final, which is more than you can say for the average football-hating rugger-boy. I actually think he’s a fairly likeable character if I’m honest, I just refuse to go into his stores and wish bankruptcy on him and all of his family and associates. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AndyP Posted February 5, 2008 Share Posted February 5, 2008 You can add George Reynolds to this post as well, multi millionaire ex safe cracker turned good, he owned a kitchen worktop company in the north east, as well as construction firms etc etc. He bought Darlington FC and promised them Premier League football inside 4 years, built them a fantastic new 25000 seater stadium (with planning to build it into a 60000 seater stadium for the premiership) He even tried to sign Tino Asprilla who took on one look at Darlington and was never seen in the north east again! He then took the team into administration and bankrupted himself! He ended up back in prison for money laundering!!! Great owner!!! and we thought we had it bad with Chris Mo**e! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
boundaryblue80 Posted February 5, 2008 Share Posted February 5, 2008 Whelan played in a FA Cup Final, which is more than you can say for the average football-hating rugger-boy. I actually think he’s a fairly likeable character if I’m honest, I just refuse to go into his stores and wish bankruptcy on him and all of his family and associates. I think the fact he tried to buy the Red Scum before Wigan shows how much love he has for the club....all fabricated. True, he might love football, but where Wigan's concerned the rugby is his baby. It wouldn't surprise me if he's a disgruntled football fan these days that hates the game it's become.....in that case, fair enough. But I do find it funny when he champions his love of them when really, it's only coz he was outbid elsewhere. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ghostofcecere Posted February 5, 2008 Share Posted February 5, 2008 Sorry but that is just not true. They have spent in excess of the budget they set themselves in several seasons – think of the signings of Charlton, Gregan and numerous unplanned loanees. We’ve had a couple of pay days in the Cup and some moderate income from sales of young players but it’s small beer compared to the losses. Remember also that they have been supporting a loss making stadium for several years longer than they ever planned. I find it absurd that they came into this to make money – the story of how New York based businessmen in the electronics industry spotted a plot of land in a run down East Lancs mill town and saw a chance of making a killing if they only shouldered the running costs of it’s run down football team for a decade would be fit for a striking Hollywood screenwriter to work on. I don't entirely agree with this. I think they DID buy Latics because of the potential to make money with the land, after all there are many clubs they could have bought it if was just purely for the sake of buying a football club. The land available at Latics (at a cost) was the thing that sets us apart from most other clubs. Apart from clubs with new stadiums, not many have the amount of land available that we do. BUT I really don't have a problem with this, it's a win, win situation we got the survival of our club, and TTA get to make a few bob out of it when the whole development is completed. And who knows, by that time, if not now, they might just be genuine dyed in the wool Latics fans. At the end of the day, they are business men and business men do things to make money. Remember they weren't LAtics fans before they bought us. But as I say I have no problem with this arrangement at all. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Corporal_Jones Posted February 5, 2008 Share Posted February 5, 2008 You can add George Reynolds to this post as well, multi millionaire ex safe cracker turned good, he owned a kitchen worktop company in the north east, as well as construction firms etc etc. He bought Darlington FC and promised them Premier League football inside 4 years, built them a fantastic new 25000 seater stadium (with planning to build it into a 60000 seater stadium for the premiership) He even tried to sign Tino Asprilla who took on one look at Darlington and was never seen in the north east again! He then took the team into administration and bankrupted himself! He ended up back in prison for money laundering!!! Great owner!!! and we thought we had it bad with Chris Mo**e! If and when TTA look to sell up, maybe they could open negotiations with Oldham's very own 'kitchen gangster.' I think the fact he tried to buy the Red Scum before Wigan shows how much love he has for the club....all fabricated. True, he might love football, but where Wigan's concerned the rugby is his baby. It wouldn't surprise me if he's a disgruntled football fan these days that hates the game it's become.....in that case, fair enough. But I do find it funny when he champions his love of them when really, it's only coz he was outbid elsewhere. None of that matters when you consider where they are now compared to where they were when he took them over. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Inspiral_Carpet Posted February 5, 2008 Share Posted February 5, 2008 who took on one look at Darlington and was never seen in the north east again! Oi. Having resided in many places North; South; East and West, I can assure you that Darlington is one of the nicest towns that I have had the pleasure to live in. 100k population and surrounded by vast swathes of green fields on all sides. I agree that Reynolds is a, .........well let's just say egomaniac and it was very funny to see the "Reynolds Arena" signs ripped down very shortly after completion! As Jeff Stelling wrote when Darlo went into Administration, "The Madness of King George". Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
leeslover Posted February 5, 2008 Share Posted February 5, 2008 Oi. Having resided in many places North; South; East and West, I can assure you that Darlington is one of the nicest towns that I have had the pleasure to live in. 100k population and surrounded by vast swathes of green fields on all sides. An with the local pub offering a Happy Hour with Camerons Bitter at only £1.29/pint, 9AM – 1PM Mon-Fri, there’s never a need to get bored there! If only IC had taken Faustino on his tour of the area. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Inspiral_Carpet Posted February 5, 2008 Share Posted February 5, 2008 And with the local pub offering a Happy Hour with Camerons Bitter at only £1.29/pint, 9AM – 1PM Mon-Fri, there’s never a need to get bored there! If only IC had taken Faustino on his tour of the area. Do you think he'd have been impressed by the top heavy barmaid? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
leeslover Posted February 5, 2008 Share Posted February 5, 2008 Do you think he'd have been impressed by the top heavy barmaid? If you'd already suceeded in your plans for her, he'd probably give it a miss Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AndyP Posted February 5, 2008 Share Posted February 5, 2008 (edited) Oi. Having resided in many places North; South; East and West, I can assure you that Darlington is one of the nicest towns that I have had the pleasure to live in. 100k population and surrounded by vast swathes of green fields on all sides. I agree that Reynolds is a, .........well let's just say egomaniac and it was very funny to see the "Reynolds Arena" signs ripped down very shortly after completion! As Jeff Stelling wrote when Darlo went into Administration, "The Madness of King George". I agree with you, I stayed in Co Durham for a year whilst on a contract there, i too thought it was a great place to live, Having worked all over the world, and most of the UK I can honestly say Co Durham is one place that I felt at home! (I wasn't slagging Darlo at all) Edited February 5, 2008 by AndyP Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Inspiral_Carpet Posted February 5, 2008 Share Posted February 5, 2008 I agree with you, I stayed in Co Durham for a year whilst on a contract there, i too thought it was a great place to live, Having worked all over the world, and most of the UK I can honestly say Co Durham is one place that I felt at home! (I wasn't slagging Darlo at all) No worries mate. Just having a bit of fun. Watersheddings on the other hand......isn't that where OA_Exile was dragged up? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AndyP Posted February 5, 2008 Share Posted February 5, 2008 No worries mate. Just having a bit of fun. Watersheddings on the other hand......isn't that where OA_Exile was dragged up? No Idea mate, I know there was a guy from the old Latics website board from Moorside but cant remember his name? I know Sean the photogropher lives up here somewhere as well, though I think it's higher up the hill with the sheep Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
boboafc Posted February 5, 2008 Share Posted February 5, 2008 No Idea mate, I know there was a guy from the old Latics website board from Moorside but cant remember his name? I know Sean the photogropher lives up here somewhere as well, though I think it's higher up the hill with the sheep wasn;t that damian thorne(user name) who was on the old official board? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AndyP Posted February 5, 2008 Share Posted February 5, 2008 wasn;t that damian thorne(user name) who was on the old official board? Yes Bob I think it was Damien Thorne, did he come across here or is he still over on t'other site?? Dont see Sean on here either Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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