Worthwhile or not?

[dish]

So it's all guess work then that leads you to proclaim him a legend (I assume thats what you think he is?)? Stats are funny things, you look at it as him scoring 1 every other game while if you put his games side by side Soccerbase you'll see that the hattrick masks a very erratic series of games where he nearly matched his goals record by the number of yellows he picked up, but I guess that just shows he has passion right?

Hughes contribution this season doesn't even come close to what Ruben, Allott and Davies have given us.

 

 

Yawn, yawn, yawn.

 

You were against the guy siging for the club. So you haven't exactly give him a chance have you.

 

I think besides from you and Derek Wilson, Lee Hughes is concidered the fans favourite (and rightly so)

 

HUGHESY! HUGHESY! HUGHESY!

[dave_ragg1984]

He has done better than I expected, but you cant say he has been a roaring success as he has spent large parts of the season on the sidelines. Best striker in the last 10 years? He could be but at the moment he is behind Beckett and Porter, for one simple reason, we know what they did but we are speculating on how good Hughes could be.

 

And he has definitley not united the fans more than any other player in recent memory. As coco said, that man is Eyresy. Everyone, and I mean everyone who supports latics loved number 28. The same can not be said about Lee Hughes. Whilst I think he has looked good and I think we are missing him at the moment, I still dont think we should have signed him, and he will never have 100% of fans behind him like Eyresy did.

Edited February 29, 2008 by dave_ragg1984

[BigfinLatic]

So it's all guess work then that leads you to proclaim him a legend (I assume thats what you think he is?)? Stats are funny things, you look at it as him scoring 1 every other game while if you put his games side by side Soccerbase you'll see that the hattrick masks a very erratic series of games where he nearly matched his goals record by the number of yellows he picked up, but I guess that just shows he has passion right?

Hughes contribution this season doesn't even come close to what Ruben, Allott and Davies have given us.

 

Senor, stop pressing the buttons for the sake of it... of course he isnt a legend... Andy Ritchie is a legend, Joe Royle is a legend, lee Hughes is simply the best striker we have had for 10 years... if he gets us promoted and then scores 20 in the champ, he could approach being a legend... until then he is simply a very, very good player... and the best player we have...

 

.. and you are now twisting the arguement... lets look at the statistics for all the games Davies didnt score in... then got suspended - bet they dont make too good reading either...?? but you cant detract from the fact that 99.99% out there will admit - as I am arguing, that Hughes (at the moment) is a better striker than davies... You have also picked up on 1 of the three things I mention - is he the most consistent goalscorer - the stats say yes, is he the best all round player in our team - i'd say yes, and has he done more to excite and bring the fans together when he plays than any other player - i'd say yes...

 

.. and again you are twisting the arguement... I have not made a mention to whom has made the biggest contribution from our team (nor does this thread) - I simply make the point that for me, he is the best striker in the division - and a fit hughesy is the best palyer in our team by a clear distance... so the point of this thread is he worth the effort - yes, by a clear distance... if we were looking for a player of the season... its not hughesy, its Mr Mark Allott, but that doesnt make him a better player than him...

 

..or I could have just said I totally agree with Lookers87

[BigfinLatic]

He has done better than I expected, but you cant say he has been a roaring success as he has spent large parts of the season on the sidelines. Best striker in the last 10 years? He could be but at the moment he is behind Beckett and Porter, for one simple reason, we know what they did but we are speculating on how good Hughes could be.

 

And he has definitley not united the fans more than any other player in recent memory. As coco said, that man is Eyresy. Everyone, and I mean everyone who supports latics loved number 28. The same can not be said about Lee Hughes. Whilst I think he has looked good and I think we are missing him at the moment, I still dont think we should have signed him, and he will never have 100% of fans behind him like Eyresy did.

 

Unfortunately your last statement shows, that like coco, you probably will never see how good Lee Hughes actually is...

 

And no... by no way am I speculating on how good hughes is - I have seen it, anyone who was at bournemouth saw it, anyone who was at millwall saw it, anyone who saw him during those 8 weeks when he was magnificent saw it... Porter and Beckett, never, ever, got anywhere near to contributing as much to a team performance as what hughesy did during those games... it stunned me, it genuinely did - I couldnt belive we had this player in our team... never, ever did Porter or beckett leave me feeling like that... Porter is a goalscorer, thats it... beckett is closer to him but the class of Hughes puts him in a different bracket, and hence why hughes has played at the highest level...

 

So.. if your point is that we need to knwo what hughes could do over a prolongued period of time - then yes, I agree with you... but to say he hasnt already shown why he is better than the likes of Beckett and Porter is just plain wrong - Hughesy ability is better than both of thier best abilities (Finishing, strength, passing, movement, touch etc...) and he will get better.... and no other striker in this division is as rounded as he is... so to me he is the best...

 

And again... I'm not bloomin comparing him to eyresy... but I can say, to a man, the whole crowd (or following) has chanted Hughesy's name at certain games this season... making him, as I have said, the only player that really unites everyone in a game - he gives everything and people respect that... and I bet people who knock him on here join in too at matches... go on admit it...

 

He is also a player who really winds up the opposition - which we have been lacking for ages - I love the bit of bite his presence brings to games... Millwall is my highlight of the season (including everton)... it was simply superb - and that was all down to hughesy....

[Senor_Coconut]

And no... by no way am I speculating on how good hughes is - I have seen it, anyone who was at bournemouth saw it, anyone who was at millwall saw it, anyone who saw him during those 8 weeks when he was magnificent saw it... Porter and Beckett, never, ever, got anywhere near to contributing as much to a team performance as what hughesy did during those games... it stunned me, it genuinely did - I couldnt belive we had this player in our team... never, ever did Porter or beckett leave me feeling like that... Porter is a goalscorer, thats it... beckett is closer to him but the class of Hughes puts him in a different bracket, and hence why hughes has played at the highest level...

 

 

 

 

But theres been times with Porter and Beckett where they've also won us games on their own but they also did it over a season (If you want to see a striker make a real impact, look at what Beckett did in the second half of Ronnies season) where they've shown their quality, christ even Carlo turned it on once or twice.

 

 

Ok, Hughes could have come out of the clink a headcase and fall apart at the first nasty comment from a knuckle dragging Millwall supporter, so in that case he's done well to cope, but to call him an amazing player for us because he turned it on in a couple of games is laughable.

[meatntwoveg]

Had the pleasure of metting Hughsey about a fortnight ago. His outlook on the game and Latics as a club are much the same as 99% of our forums members. He is very grateful to the club for the chance we've taken and is very highly motivated in seeing the job out he's begun with us. He was very appreciative of the support of both the club and the fans and is as desperate as we are to make promotion a realistic target. Sadly at the time he was hoping to be back in time for Yeovil and as we all know he still aint out there so injury obviously worse than first thought. Came across as a real good lad and says we're still to see his best so that said opposition defences are in for a nightmare season and a half as he also says he's no intention of moving on he came with a plan in mind and that was promotion and he's confident it will be achieved. Yes he's had injury problems but those aside we've had a hell of a return in other ways. Time spent by our youthful strikers with a striker of his proven ability is a bonus maybe not immediately but a year or 2 down the line every other manager in our division ( and even some from the division above ) would love the fella in their squad so bout time we thanked our blessings that we've got a player of his ability who's more than prepared to get his head down and give us what we crave so much SUCCESS !!!

[thelaticsfan]

What is his goals to games ratio anyone know? and can anyone work it out how many goals he would be expected to have scored if he would have played the whole season for us (e.g. 10 goals in 10 games would be 46 goals in the season)

[Crusoe]

Hughes' goals-to-games ratio is 0.44, or 0.38 if you include his sub appearances.

 

For comparison's sake, Davies' ratio is 0.35 (including the Leeds goal he was credited later).

Edited March 1, 2008 by Crusoe

[dave_ragg1984]

Unfortunately your last statement shows, that like coco, you probably will never see how good Lee Hughes actually is...

 

And no... by no way am I speculating on how good hughes is - I have seen it, anyone who was at bournemouth saw it, anyone who was at millwall saw it, anyone who saw him during those 8 weeks when he was magnificent saw it... Porter and Beckett, never, ever, got anywhere near to contributing as much to a team performance as what hughesy did during those games... it stunned me, it genuinely did - I couldnt belive we had this player in our team... never, ever did Porter or beckett leave me feeling like that... Porter is a goalscorer, thats it... beckett is closer to him but the class of Hughes puts him in a different bracket, and hence why hughes has played at the highest level...

 

So.. if your point is that we need to knwo what hughes could do over a prolongued period of time - then yes, I agree with you... but to say he hasnt already shown why he is better than the likes of Beckett and Porter is just plain wrong - Hughesy ability is better than both of thier best abilities (Finishing, strength, passing, movement, touch etc...) and he will get better.... and no other striker in this division is as rounded as he is... so to me he is the best...

 

And again... I'm not bloomin comparing him to eyresy... but I can say, to a man, the whole crowd (or following) has chanted Hughesy's name at certain games this season... making him, as I have said, the only player that really unites everyone in a game - he gives everything and people respect that... and I bet people who knock him on here join in too at matches... go on admit it...

 

He is also a player who really winds up the opposition - which we have been lacking for ages - I love the bit of bite his presence brings to games... Millwall is my highlight of the season (including everton)... it was simply superb - and that was all down to hughesy....

 

Actually i thought my last statement showed the opposite. Whilst I agree that he is very good, I still havent forgiven him for what he has done. I think the team are missing him, does that not show that I think he is a very good player?????

 

 

"Porter and Beckett, never, ever, got anywhere near to contributing as much to a team performance as what hughesy did during those games... it stunned me, it genuinely did - I couldn't belive we had this player in our team... never, ever did Porter or beckett leave me feeling like that... Porter is a goalscorer, thats it... beckett is closer to him but the class of Hughes puts him in a different bracket, and hence why hughes has played at the highest level..."- Balls.

 

Chris Porter is the best striker Oldham Athletic have had since the premier league. 23 goals, and his alround play was brilliant last season. I dont think I will forgive him for how he left, but I can see that he is the best striker we have has since we were relegated from the top division. He was so much more than just a goalscorer. He lead the line brilliantly and when he didnty play last season we looked nowhere near as good.

 

"And again... I'm not bloomin comparing him to eyresy... but I can say, to a man, the whole crowd (or following) has chanted Hughesy's name at certain games this season... making him, as I have said, the only player that really unites everyone in a game - he gives everything and people respect that... and I bet people who knock him on here join in too at matches... go on admit it... " Balls again. Ive not chanted his name. I ve celebrated his goals, but he has not yet earnt it for me to chant his name. And you were comparing him to Eyres when you said words to the effect of "no player in recent memory has united the fans like lee hughes", as quite simply, David Eyres is in recent memory.

 

It does seen that you have already decided Lee Hughes is your hero. I dont understand why, but at least you are happy with it. Hopefully next season we will not have an injury prone Lee Hughes and he will bag the 30+ goals that people seem to think is a certain. Until then, he is behind Porter and Beckett as our best striker in the last ten years, and slightly above Clyde Wijnhard.

[thelaticsfan]

Hughes' goals-to-games ratio is 0.44, or 0.38 if you include his sub appearances.

 

For comparison's sake, Davies' ratio is 0.35 (including the Leeds goal he was credited later).

 

so that would make an average of 20.24 goals a season if he played every game of the season, which would make him one of the top strikers, what are we expecting? 35+ per striker :S

[thelaticsfan]

Chris Porter is the best striker Oldham Athletic have had since the premier league. 23 goals, and his alround play was brilliant last season. I dont think I will forgive him for how he left, but I can see that he is the best striker we have has since we were relegated from the top division. He was so much more than just a goalscorer. He lead the line brilliantly and when he didnty play last season we looked nowhere near as good.

 

It was one season where he wasnt even top scorer of league, he showed how much we ment to him, half of the goals were tap ins from deflections, if hughes would have played as many games as him he would have scored around the same (see above) but each of his goals is well worked, he moves well and he sets up a lot aswell,

 

plus porter had an experienced side round him, hughes has kids who are learning, I think we should see from the remainder of this season and next season, im sure you will see him show his class, I also think we should have kept sam parkin, hes a proven goal scorer over years, and hes doing well for luton now!

[Crusoe]

...half of the goals were tap ins from deflections...

 

I agree with most of the rest of what you say, but not this bit - every team needs a player who's in the right place at the right time to get the tap-ins. They all count. I'd rather have a striker who scores 30 tap-ins than one who scores 15 world-class scorchers.

[BigfinLatic]

But theres been times with Porter and Beckett where they've also won us games on their own but they also did it over a season (If you want to see a striker make a real impact, look at what Beckett did in the second half of Ronnies season) where they've shown their quality, christ even Carlo turned it on once or twice.

Ok, Hughes could have come out of the clink a headcase and fall apart at the first nasty comment from a knuckle dragging Millwall supporter, so in that case he's done well to cope, but to call him an amazing player for us because he turned it on in a couple of games is laughable.

 

You just aint getting it coco.. you asked me to justify why i think Hughes is the best sriker in the league, and again you are banging on about doing it over the season... I have explained why Hughes' ALL ROUND GAME makes him a better player in 14 games then all the players you mention - you dont need a season to see this - and he hasnt just turned it on in 1 or 2 games - in every game he played other than his first couple there was an arguement for him to be MOM, that is consistent quality like I have never seen from any Oldham striker - including Porter, Lets get it straight, porter was quality... but we all knwo he could tap one in then go utterly missing... Hughes will score than contribute more for the entire game than anyone of the pitch - that is why he is a better player than Porter.

 

I have not seen a more rounded player at BP for the last 10 years, Eyersy, Wellens, Porter, Hall etc... all great players... but none have made me as excited to be an oldham fan as Lee Hughes - That is total personal opinion I know, but I know plenty who agree with me.

 

I dont mean this in a bad way, so please dont take it as this, but I suspect you dont go to away games - is reversable for me as i dont go to that many home games this season (except every game Hughes has played in - i'd go just to watch him )... but I feel that unless you were at all of those away games on our run you just cant qualify how superb hughes was - every game was won because of the quality he gave - and it utterly no surprise that our form has suffered since he dissapeared...

 

Chris Porter is the best striker Oldham Athletic have had since the premier league. 23 goals, and his alround play was brilliant last season. I dont think I will forgive him for how he left, but I can see that he is the best striker we have has since we were relegated from the top division. He was so much more than just a goalscorer. He lead the line brilliantly and when he didnty play last season we looked nowhere near as good.

 

Think I have answered some of this above - and your comments on Porter could be transferred to hughes - as you admit we miss(ed) them both terribly, but I still believe tat Hughes is a class above porter... they are different players - but as you say, Porters' strengths were leading the line, hold up play, and being in the right place at the right time - with a helping hand from Mr liddell. For me Hughes is better at eading the line, better at hold up play, and a better finsher by a clear distance - plus he is cleverer, quicker, stronger, more skillful and more powerful than Porter - for me he is utterly the complete striker... Porter was in the right place at the right time so many times last season - however I would love to see his goals scored ratio this season when the supply has been non-existent - Hughes makes things happen on his own... he can do everything the Porters, becketts, etc could do... but also score a goal out of absolutely nothing - which the great players can do....

 

It does seen that you have already decided Lee Hughes is your hero. I dont understand why, but at least you are happy with it. Hopefully next season we will not have an injury prone Lee Hughes and he will bag the 30+ goals that people seem to think is a certain. Until then, he is behind Porter and Beckett as our best striker in the last ten years, and slightly above Clyde Wijnhard.

 

Fair enough... but as I have always said my opinion on Hughes is not based on timescales, which your opinion on what makes a great striker is - and I really really hope hughes will do it over the next season... because it will be utterly scary for the defences in this division...

 

.. and yes - he is my latics hero at the moment... because since Stitch I have never seen a latics player than genuinely makes the hairs on the back of my kneck stand up in excitement - Lee hughes has done that countless times already.... those moment of magic are priceless, and something you just do not normally get at this level - he is a class above... and i'm sure he will be the leagues leading scorer next season...

[Bring Back Ronnie Moore]

He managed to bang in goals 8 goals in 18 appearances and he wasn't even fully fit and is the main reason we started winning games. Hughes is a striker who creates his own goals as well as scores them, take Bournemouth away and Brighton at home. If he's fully fit next season I have no doubts he'll smash Chris Porter's record into oblivion. The sooner we get him back, the better.

[Steve_R]

so that would make an average of 20.24 goals a season if he played every game of the season, which would make him one of the top strikers, what are we expecting? 35+ per striker :S

 

 

You can’t just pro rata the goals per game ratio over a full season and say that it’s definite that’s how many he would have scored if he’d been fit all year.

 

I could just as easily say that in his last 8 appearances he scored once, so using those stats he’d manage five goals if he’s fit all next year.

 

If we see a fully fit Lee Hughes next season and he bags 25/30 goals (as some seem to think is nailed on) then to call him the best striker we’ve had for the last 10 years will probably be right. As of yet though it’s all guesswork, so he’s done nowhere near enough to earn that title.

[leeslover]

I presume that people who argue that the amount of time Hughes has been out injured are applying the same consideration to their memories of Beckett throughout his time with us? And Porter for that matter? And Clyde?

 

Beckett for me is actually a pretty limited striker, and any look at this stats needs to take account of the high number of penalties that made up his goals. I would say that all round, Porter is a much better player than Beckett, and Hughes is a good bit better than Porter.

[Senor_Coconut]

I would love for a real fitness expert to come out and say how long it takes on average for a footballer to get his full fitness back, given he trains all week and plays on a weekend, since Hughes played 18 games on the trot between his first injury and the latest one he's out with.

[boundaryblue80]

We'll see how good Hughes is when he is fully fit and plays most of a season. He never was going to this season. A hero, he is not. And never will be for me, for others, so be it. A good player...he is. A great player, he may one day become.

 

So far, I'm happy with his on the field contributions even though I have never wanted him in a Latics shirt. There are two really, really sad factors surrounding the Hughes hype however....

 

1) Hughes was practically some "fans" hero before he even pulled on a shirt....revelling in the them and us of it all!

 

2) The fans who do worship him think those with discontent over his signing have changed their minds and that all fans love him now. Sadly, this couldn't be further from the truth. In discussions yesterday, I heard of cases where some fans aren't coming to BP anymore to watch us because of his signing. Whilst the rest, like myself, will refuse to sing his name for a long, long time to come (sorry...but the claim that every fan is singing his name is utterly ridiculous.)

 

There's plenty that Hughes has done so far and plenty that he has to do in the future to become the great some are calling him at present. But basing his status on potential, is similar to the greatness some applied to Kilkenny based on potential. As to their greatness, I'll use the adage "I'll believe it when I see it"......and it wouldn't be a surprise when I see it. Again though, to have a poll on his "worthwhileness" so far.....far to early to judge. Maybe in a years time we can....

 

PS If you want a real poll oin worthwhileness, start one about Liddell please Infact sod it, I'll do it myself

[Guest oa_exile]

I would love for a real fitness expert to come out and say how long it takes on average for a footballer to get his full fitness back, given he trains all week and plays on a weekend, since Hughes played 18 games on the trot between his first injury and the latest one he's out with.

 

............Beardy should be along shortly to answer that question

[BigfinLatic]

I would love for a real fitness expert to come out and say how long it takes on average for a footballer to get his full fitness back, given he trains all week and plays on a weekend, since Hughes played 18 games on the trot between his first injury and the latest one he's out with.

 

its the same injury.. he had a hernia and a groin problem, they thought surgery for the hernia and rest on the groin would work - it didnt... he needed the op on the groin and still does.. he played every one of those games at 60/70% so its a miracle he achieved what he did... as discussed we still have some vague hope of hitting the playoffs so they seem to be delaying it until the close season....

 

There's plenty that Hughes has done so far and plenty that he has to do in the future to become the great some are calling him at present. But basing his status on potential, is similar to the greatness some applied to Kilkenny based on potential. As to their greatness, I'll use the adage "I'll believe it when I see it"......and it wouldn't be a surprise when I see it. Again though, to have a poll on his "worthwhileness" so far.....far to early to judge. Maybe in a years time we can....

 

Respect all of yopur opinion BB... however I still have problems with the word 'potential' - I was as dubious as everyone when he signed, but after his performance at the Bournemouth game I was uttelry stunned, as I have never seen that type of quality from any player (bar none IMO) at this level... i never saw Kilkenny do anything that ever merited being classed in anywhere neer the esteem i hold Lee Hughes in.... His performances have shown this guy has it, its not going to develop, and its definitely not potential - Kilkenny could be a great player at this level - Hughes already is - and at a much higher level than this...

 

proving himself over an entire season is very different to potential - I really really hope he does - but I have been justifying why I think he is the best player we have, and have had in the last 10 years - and I feel that was in eveidence during those 14 or so games....

 

... you are agin right though - worthwhileness will be justified over time... quality can be justified in 1 game...

[Stitch_KTF]

2) The fans who do worship him think those with discontent over his signing have changed their minds and that all fans love him now. Sadly, this couldn't be further from the truth. In discussions yesterday, I heard of cases where some fans aren't coming to BP anymore to watch us because of his signing.

 

 

Really? How pathetic.

[BigfinLatic]

Really? How pathetic.

 

To be honest, I dont believe this for a second - you may tell me i'm wrong because of my opinion on the situation, but I perfectly respect those who dont believe that signing Hughes was the right thing - but to not come to the games because of it?? Come off it... its just a topical excuse to cover up the fact you dont want to watch latics any more...

 

If the victims family can forgive him, if local drugs and drink-driving charities can forgive him after he donated his time, and if every reasonably minded person who looks at his efforts and situation can forgive him, then people who say "they arent going to BP because of lee Hughes" are talking out of thier posterior....

 

If you want to support latics you go to matches and get behind your team - no matter what - If people dont want to support Lee Hughes then fine, there are 10 (and mostly 11!) other lads on the pitch who need your support - to not go because we signed someone who has been widely applauded for his efforts, on and off the pitch, from all quarters since he joined us - is well, as Stitch above says - Childish and pathetic... and as your footer says BB80... just another excuse not to watch latics cos we are Crap.

[roytoner]

No brainer.....Defo.

 

Free transfer. Reasonable wages......

[boundaryblue80]

One was a season ticket holder over a number of decades. He wrote to the club and received a reply which was basically saying they didn't care what he felt about the decision to sign him. Personally, I can understand someone thinking get stuffed then, if their written letter receives such contempt back in reply.

 

Yes, it may also have given some the excuse not to come and be using it as a false pretence. But with our league attendances fast approaching our lowest ever of 3,400 vs Colchester a few years ago, all reasons for a return of this worrying trend need assessing. And for fans to think Hughes signing has united us, couldn't be further from the truth. Latics fans like to sing "we got our club back"....in the process, we shat all over our morals doing so and it doesn't sit well with some I'm afraid.

[BigfinLatic]

One was a season ticket holder over a number of decades. He wrote to the club and received a reply which was basically saying they didn't care what he felt about the decision to sign him. Personally, I can understand someone thinking get stuffed then, if their written letter receives such contempt back in reply.

 

Fair enough - that his own choice.. but I doubt if that is exactly what the letter said, and it still strikes me as a little childish.. someone doesnt just give up on thier club for decades just because of that, i'm sure there were other reasons at play which you allude to in your next para...

 

Yes, it may also have given some the excuse not to come and be using it as a false pretence. But with our league attendances fast approaching our lowest ever of 3,400 vs Colchester a few years ago, all reasons for a return of this worrying trend need assessing. And for fans to think Hughes signing has united us, couldn't be further from the truth. Latics fans like to sing "we got our club back"....in the process, we shat all over our morals doing so and it doesn't sit well with some I'm afraid.

 

This is something that has been discussed thread after thread on here.... and to be honest, not once has anyone shoved thier hand up and said its because of Lee Hughes... think that is clutching at straws (albeit maybe the one that breaks the camels back) but the bottom line is that people arent coming cos the football in this division is rubbish, and we have been here for far too long - they can dress it up however they like, and use the "excuse of the day" if they want... and as you footer again say - that makes them a cock in my book...

 

... I'm not even going to get into the "shat over our morals comment" - yeah, sure there are lots of room for morals in football nowadays when agents, ambition and money rules - we show a bit of foresight and we get accused of having no morals - rubbish, I could name 20+ clubs who have worse morals than us, and are above us in the league structure because they trample all over clubs like us - and every one of those supposed latics fans who complain about morals would swap places in the league with them in a second.... the moral arguement again does not work in my book, its jjust another dead end for people to moan about...