Jump to content

Genuine Question


Recommended Posts

Are we purposely avoiding promotion?

 

Not trying to be contraversial or sarcastic. However we're only four points off a Play-Off place and have eighteen points still to play for.

 

I just don't understand why Sheridan and club officials are so negative about our chances. This is compounded in today's Chronicle where Hardy is forecasting no activity before deadline day because further success this season is unlikely.

 

It would be great if a club official (I know you read this board) could clarify the situation as the apathy coming out the club is concerning.

 

As we're developing the ground, would promotion have a negative impact on our club financially so this IS the reason?!

 

Staff bonuses for promotion and then expectation to spend bid next season to secure survival in the Championship would mean major expenditure to the club. Promotion doesn't guarantee a major boost in attendances or ST holders so it could cost us and divert funds from developing the ground or drain resources further if the owners were expected to fund the two. Perhaps it's such a concern and is why the club is avoiding promotion like the plague and have told Sheridan that funds aren't available for that final push this season.

 

This is the only thing I can think of in light of the injuries and reluctance to strengthen with a chance to succeed well within our grasp.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I dont know but personally I dont want us to go up this season, I dont think we are ready yet, although i do want us to reach plauoffs for the income we get from it

 

I would never EVER not want us to go up. There is never a bad time to be promoted. End of.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Promotion now is a long shot realistically, I guess they don't feel the chances of even a few big name players coming in would do enough for our chances at this stage compared to the outlay. Remember that whoever we get in would have to settle, they might well not be match fit, they may get injured and so on. It's not like they didn't get players in to help us out in the last couple of months.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I would never EVER not want us to go up. There is never a bad time to be promoted. End of.

 

Exactly....might as well shut the gates if that is the attitude. Sadly, in TTA's mind it'll cost them more to go up (despite them protesting that endlessly, I would've thought increased gates from bigger away followings and TV money would assist heavily if we went up) then who knows....it's clear to me that unless it's a KK etc. they ain't putting up that sort of cash about now (£120k not about for elsewhere in our push this season) for players to get us up. Can't blame them on 3,600 but that would be 5,600 in the Champs and more.....probably get 5000 Latics and 2000 away easily if we got up. Oh well.....

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Are we purposely avoiding promotion?

 

Not trying to be contraversial or sarcastic. However we're only four points off a Play-Off place and have eighteen points still to play for.

 

I just don't understand why Sheridan and club officials are so negative about our chances. This is compounded in today's Chronicle where Hardy is forecasting no activity before deadline day because further success this season is unlikely.

 

It would be great if a club official (I know you read this board) could clarify the situation as the apathy coming out the club is concerning.

 

As we're developing the ground, would promotion have a negative impact on our club financially so this IS the reason?!

 

Staff bonuses for promotion and then expectation to spend bid next season to secure survival in the Championship would mean major expenditure to the club. Promotion doesn't guarantee a major boost in attendances or ST holders so it could cost us and divert funds from developing the ground or drain resources further if the owners were expected to fund the two. Perhaps it's such a concern and is why the club is avoiding promotion like the plague and have told Sheridan that funds aren't available for that final push this season.

 

This is the only thing I can think of in light of the injuries and reluctance to strengthen with a chance to succeed well within our grasp.

 

If you believe that promotion is "well within our grasp" then the 28/1 widely available for us to go up should be very tempting for you. That price will take into account any potential deadline day signings and if we aren't likely to make any, then the price should be much bigger. There are so many teams in a far better position to finish in the Top 6 than Latics - and then there is the small matter of the play-offs. Simple maths tells us that we will struggle to finish 6th so you don't really need conspiracy theories. We are currently 11th with games running out fast and some of our higher placed rivals have matches in hand.

 

The reality is therefore that we have around a 4% chance of success - I'd rate it as much lower. If you think that is grounds to get out the cheque book and gamble then fair enough. I would hope the Club have more sense since it is widely known that funds are limited and we have already coughed up more than planned to plug some of the gaps caused by the spiralling injury list.

 

If you want someone from the Club to confirm that they are deliberately throwing games in order to stay down, then you'll probably have quite a wait. That's the implication of "purposefully avoiding promotion".

 

In the meantime, the 28/1 price for promotion would suggest the apathy and lack of expectation is not necessarily of the Club's doing but is based on cold, hard probability.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Are we purposely avoiding promotion?

 

Not trying to be contraversial or sarcastic. However we're only four points off a Play-Off place and have eighteen points still to play for.

 

I just don't understand why Sheridan and club officials are so negative about our chances. This is compounded in today's Chronicle where Hardy is forecasting no activity before deadline day because further success this season is unlikely......

 

I can't understand this either, its a tall order to get the last play off place, but its not impossible. Ok we have 4 points to make up but there are 18 points still at stake from games we are capable of winning. Surely until it is mathematically impossible we should be having a good go? Bringing someone in on loan might just give us that final push?

If we were 4th from bottom & 4 points from safety would we just give up then & not bother making a fight of it?

I would like to think we would at least try or make an effort so whats the difference? :huh:

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Leyton Orient have given up too, by the looks of it. And they have 1 more point than us.

 

Ling speaks

i dont think you should ever give up until it is physically impossible to do so.

 

the club could come out and say that it would be highly unlikely that we will bring anybody in,as it would cost too much money or something,and just say we will have to try and do it with what players are available.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

It's an interesting point though. Obviously we as fans want to go up but do the people that matter?

 

Sheridan. No promotion = keeps job. Promotion = Andy Ritchie at Barnsley sacking.

Players like Stam/Lomax/Smalley/Kalala(ish)/MacDonald etc. No promotion = keeps first team place. Promotion = dropped.

 

It's not hard for a manager or player to purposefully and without it showing mess up a promotion run.

 

NB. I still don't think that's why we're mid-table obscurity though.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

If you want someone from the Club to confirm that they are deliberately throwing games in order to stay down, then you'll probably have quite a wait. That's the implication of "purposefully avoiding promotion".

 

In the meantime, the 28/1 price for promotion would suggest the apathy and lack of expectation is not necessarily of the Club's doing but is based on cold, hard probability.

 

I'm not suggesting that games are being thrown but simply that we're not bringing in new faces etc to increase that probability of going up. Remember, this conversation has been rumbling on for weeks now so you need to include 3 or 4 more games into this equation and the 3 or 4 weeks for players to settle in ready for that final push.

 

I just get the feeling that owners have calculated that promotion would cost us more then if we stayed down due to bonuses and then expectations from the fans to strengthen further to stay up next season. Add that we're developing the ground so if money was needed for bonuses and further strengthening then this could impact on off-field activities.

 

It's just strange that we've had weeks to address this situation but we've limped on and now accepting failure to go up.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

If you believe that promotion is "well within our grasp" then the 28/1 widely available for us to go up should be very tempting for you. That price will take into account any potential deadline day signings and if we aren't likely to make any, then the price should be much bigger. There are so many teams in a far better position to finish in the Top 6 than Latics - and then there is the small matter of the play-offs. Simple maths tells us that we will struggle to finish 6th so you don't really need conspiracy theories. We are currently 11th with games running out fast and some of our higher placed rivals have matches in hand.

 

The reality is therefore that we have around a 4% chance of success - I'd rate it as much lower. If you think that is grounds to get out the cheque book and gamble then fair enough. I would hope the Club have more sense since it is widely known that funds are limited and we have already coughed up more than planned to plug some of the gaps caused by the spiralling injury list.

 

If you want someone from the Club to confirm that they are deliberately throwing games in order to stay down, then you'll probably have quite a wait. That's the implication of "purposefully avoiding promotion".

 

In the meantime, the 28/1 price for promotion would suggest the apathy and lack of expectation is not necessarily of the Club's doing but is based on cold, hard probability.

 

 

So how would you feel if we missed out on the play offs by a maximum of 2 or 3 points? Personally i'd feel bloody cheated (as i've done all season) by the lack of foresight from both the manager and the owners. I've always known this club to come out fighting, even when all seems lost. Such as in 98/99 in the deepest darkest throws of Brierley's reign. Everything about the club is defeatist, yes we probably won't make the play offs but what is wrong with talking the talk even if we don't necessarily walk the walk. The 3,500 people who stumped up for season tickets and have had to endure the worst football probably in ten years at BP would like to see us end the season with a bang. Why not 'try before we buy', i'm sure many of our targets are out of favour at their current clubs given our usual calibre of signing. This really does leave a nasty taste in my mouth. The loyal fans constantly step up to the plate for this club and at the moment many of us feel as though we are being shat upon from a great height. I'm usually one of those who buys a season ticket no matter what and even borrowed money to ensure i could secure mine and my boy's seats for this season. Next season i'm seriously considering not bothering. I want vibrancy, a get up and go attitude within the club and at present none of this is there, no wonder the crowds at BP are dwindling and those that do attend are becoming increasingly indiffrent. For God sake the new ground project hasn't even been assigned a project manager. The whole setup stinks of unprofessional reactionism.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I think Prozac makes some valid points here, things are way to quiet. There's no noise and more's the point no action coming out of the club at the moment, why is that? I fear for my club at the moment, the club is haemorrhaging fans this season at an alarmingly fast rate. a rate that the club and TTA cannot cope with. I know that a winning product on the pitch is the only sure fire way of drawing bigger, happier crowds but for many, it seems the club just aint even making an attempt. It's been a dire season all round for many with the only bright spots Everton away which coincided with the other, the 7 consecutives away's.

This all may seem unfair to those from within the club who are reading this as the may be sat there saying to themselves we've pulled out our tripe this season trying to bring in players, dealing with a stubborn council and once again watching the money sail out of our bank account. They may even be sat there as down beat about the football on offer as many of us blue to the core followers. I just wish if that was the case they'd come out and join us showing how depressed they all are about this season. It's weird really, we're top half (currently) sitting a handful of points adrift the play off's yet everything this season seems so flat. Make no mistake the majority of tics are down regarding this season and the frustration level as been very very high this time around. The frustration just hightens even the smallest doubts.

To be honest I cant wait to let this season die, recharge the batteries like all our superstar Premeir:censored:e players on a beach somewhere ignoring the Euro's, get my season ticket and be up for the coming new season. I hope the club is up for the fight to win the hearts and minds of the departed this season cos they'll need to be. In fact they'll need to be as strong as those thats stuck it out this season thats for sure. I want to see and hear positive vibes and actions this close season. I want to see this new stadium coming up from the ground not just the old Lookers fall. I want to hear fighting talk how our targets will not be allowed to walk away and a renewed vigour about wanting promotion out of this dire league. Season 2007/2008 will go down as one to forget. AH as warned off any thoughts of players arriving and the very fact Hughes is today under the knife shows that within the halls of BP the play off's are not even a thought.

Edited by Lags
Link to comment
Share on other sites

So how would you feel if we missed out on the play offs by a maximum of 2 or 3 points? Personally i'd feel bloody cheated (as i've done all season) by the lack of foresight from both the manager and the owners. I've always known this club to come out fighting, even when all seems lost. Such as in 98/99 in the deepest darkest throws of Brierley's reign. Everything about the club is defeatist, yes we probably won't make the play offs but what is wrong with talking the talk even if we don't necessarily walk the walk. The 3,500 people who stumped up for season tickets and have had to endure the worst football probably in ten years at BP would like to see us end the season with a bang. Why not 'try before we buy', i'm sure many of our targets are out of favour at their current clubs given our usual calibre of signing. This really does leave a nasty taste in my mouth. The loyal fans constantly step up to the plate for this club and at the moment many of us feel as though we are being shat upon from a great height. I'm usually one of those who buys a season ticket no matter what and even borrowed money to ensure i could secure mine and my boy's seats for this season. Next season i'm seriously considering not bothering. I want vibrancy, a get up and go attitude within the club and at present none of this is there, no wonder the crowds at BP are dwindling and those that do attend are becoming increasingly indiffrent. For God sake the new ground project hasn't even been assigned a project manager. The whole setup stinks of unprofessional reactionism.

 

I haven't heard anyone say that we have given up on promotion. In fact to the contrary, there has been talk on LW and elsewhere about the points needed to get in the play-offs.

 

So The Chron quotes Hardy as saying that we are unlikely to sign anyone by today's deadline. That doesn't mean that we have given up but FFS mate - do the maths! Perhaps what we have now is enough both in terms of personnel and crippling wage costs. Since the last deadline, we have signed or re-signed Livermore; Constantine; Robertson and O'Donnell. Don't forget, in January, you were one of those bleating about the Club having left decisions about signings to the last minute. Which way do you want it Paul or are you happy to spend other people's money regardless?

 

The chances are we will miss out on 6th place by 2 or 3 points. So will half a dozen other Clubs. Those 2 points have been missed out on throughout the whole Season. Just why you think we can suddenly win 5 games out of 6 at this juncture when we haven't looked like doing so all Season amazes me. A few (more) sigings are unlikely to see that happen.

 

I'd love us to go up and contrary to what Midsblue reckons, I am sure that everyone at the Club does. Realistically though, we haven't much chance. It could happen though which is why our motto is "Keep The Faith". I'll keep mine until it is mathematically impossible for us to go up.

 

The rest of your post though is fairly consistent with your recent opinion. Some of it though is consistent with your comment over time - such as your frequent and regular blasts against TTA and the Club's Administration. That stretches back to the old JKL days. You are of course welcome to your opinion but phrases like "everything about the Club is defeatist"; "the fans are being shat upon from a great height"; "worst football in ten years"; "unprofessional reactionism" etc reads like complete crap to me from someone struggling to understand the financial issues of today's game.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

That we are even talking about promotion at this stage of the season despite some of the shocking football that’s been served up illustrates how poor this year’s league is. We should be trying to bring in as many new faces as possible because if we get into the playoffs anything can happen given the standard of probable opposition. Mr Hardy and Mr Sheridan seem to be singing from different hymn sheets with regards to signings though.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

It's clear theres something to miss at the club, the lack of signings in the Jan window, the lack of loan signings when we were very close to the play-offs yet started to lose players. There was money there for bids of £200k for Clarke and £100k fro Kilkenny yet none for loan signings (before anyone shouts about O'Donnell and Leon, they were needed otherwise we couldn't have put a team out) yet none for signings to push us forward?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I haven't heard anyone say that we have given up on promotion. In fact to the contrary, there has been talk on LW and elsewhere about the points needed to get in the play-offs.

 

So The Chron quotes Hardy as saying that we are unlikely to sign anyone by today's deadline. That doesn't mean that we have given up but FFS mate - do the maths! Perhaps what we have now is enough both in terms of personnel and crippling wage costs. Since the last deadline, we have signed or re-signed Livermore; Constantine; Robertson and O'Donnell. Don't forget, in January, you were one of those bleating about the Club having left decisions about signings to the last minute. Which way do you want it Paul or are you happy to spend other people's money regardless?

 

The chances are we will miss out on 6th place by 2 or 3 points. So will half a dozen other Clubs. Those 2 points have been missed out on throughout the whole Season. Just why you think we can suddenly win 5 games out of 6 at this juncture when we haven't looked like doing so all Season amazes me. A few (more) sigings are unlikely to see that happen.

 

I'd love us to go up and contrary to what Midsblue reckons, I am sure that everyone at the Club does. Realistically though, we haven't much chance. It could happen though which is why our motto is "Keep The Faith". I'll keep mine until it is mathematically impossible for us to go up.

 

The rest of your post though is fairly consistent with your recent opinion. Some of it though is consistent with your comment over time - such as your frequent and regular blasts against TTA and the Club's Administration. That stretches back to the old JKL days. You are of course welcome to your opinion but phrases like "everything about the Club is defeatist"; "the fans are being shat upon from a great height"; "worst football in ten years"; "unprofessional reactionism" etc reads like complete crap to me from someone struggling to understand the financial issues of today's game.

 

Your problem Jeff is you have your own agenda. Sometimes I think certain individuals are way too close to the club to form an objective opinion. A reason why i've never felt the need to stand as a trust director. Serious questions should be being asked, instead the same voices expect fans of more than 20 years to just accept "it will be alright in the end." As for repeating myself, if it looked as though strides were being made i'd be happy. Speak to the vast majority of fans who do not post on here and they will offer similar opinions to those such as mine, those that do, do offer similar evaluation, Lags, Corporal Jones, Midsblue even perennial optimists such as BB80 are beginning to question WTF is going on at the moment. You swallow we're losing this and we're losing that, yes we are but the TTA chose to buy the club so instead of bleating about losses or getting trust directors to do it for them why not cut the cloth accordingly come and say we are forever to tread water in the bottom two divisons at least we know where we stand rather than declaring "we will move forward" then 10 games before the end of the season and still in with a chance, pretty much give up despite the fact we can't raise a 16 match squad and are playing 15 year olds in the reserves and 14 year olds in the sodding youth team. What grates most was we were willing to pay good money for KK and Leon Clarke when that failed to materialise TTA seemingly put the chequebook away leaving the team up :censored:creek without a paddle. The losses you speak off will be a damn sight more when we sell only 2,000 season tickets over the summer, I know this club and its fans and they will vote with their feet. They see an administration that is becoming increasingly detatched from its fanbase.

 

 

As for 'bleating' about last minute signings, we should have signed players in January end of. Today is our last opportunity, lets take advanatge of that. By the way Jeff, don't put words in my mouth I bleat about nothing, I offer my opinion. As I say you have your own agenda thats your choice. Being detatched I prefer to see things as they are.

Edited by oafcprozac
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Why do people get slagged off on this board if they even dare question the owners or manager? There seems to be an unwritten rule that any criticism is forbidden but we should be eternally grateful to the owners and manager without opportunity to question.

 

As like other ST holders who have forked our hard earned money to watch the team for the WHOLE season, I have a right to be unhappy and angry that we've switched off and simply accept that Play-Offs are out of our reach despite league position and available points suggesting otherwise.

 

IF Sheridan used the funds available months back to strengthen then we wouldn't be in the position we are now with a lenghty injury list. Injuries should be expected and a squad built to accommodate - obviously that never happened, we've placed our eggs in one basket and those funds probably weren't readily available as first thought?!

 

Attendances are dropping and the lack of ambition isn't exactly going to entice them back. By giving up on this season - Sheridan has been DIRECTLY QUOTED that he feels that Play-Offs are unlikely, which illustrates that he HAS given up - then the club is at fault if they never return.

 

Even if we didn't strengthen then at least paint a smile on your face Sheridan and tell the media and the players that the Play-Offs are DEFINITELY ACHIEVEABLE and that we're giving it OUR BEST SHOT. If the leader has given up then you can't expect the players to put their heart and soul into winning our last six games and generating further income through the Play-Offs.

Edited by Midsblue
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Your problem Jeff is you have your own agenda. Sometimes I think certain individuals are way too close to the club to form an objective opinion. A reason why i've never felt the need to stand as a trust director. Serious questions should be being asked, instead the same voices expect fans of more than 20 years to just accept "it will be alright in the end."

 

Well thanks for letting me know that. What exactly is my Agenda seeing as you know my thoughts better than myself?

 

My only concern (and Agenda) in any of this is as a fan of OAFC. If I can help than I will. I prefer to be positive and I'm not alone in that as thousands of others can prove. The letter writing to The Council, parts of the March etc - I did those because of a love for my Club - same as everyone else did. End of story. As for the Trust, I joined that because I was asked to get involved by a friend (who had nothing to do with The Trust or The Club). I saw also that by getting involved, I could do exactly what you think that you are doing - ask serious questions and find out what is going on really - not just through idle speculation with my mates.

 

Go along to a Trust Meeting Paul. Have a listen to what is said. What you will find is that Barry does exactly what he was appointed to do. He asks difficult questions of OAFC. He represents the fans and (if needs be) he will report back regarding concerns.

 

As for repeating myself, if it looked as though strides were being made i'd be happy. Speak to the vast majority of fans who do not post on here and they will offer similar opinions to those such as mine, those that do, do offer similar evaluation, Lags, Corporal Jones, Midsblue even perennial optimists such as BB80 are beginning to question WTF is going on at the moment. You swallow we're losing this and we're losing that, yes we are but the TTA chose to buy the club so instead of bleating about losses or getting trust directors to do it for them why not cut the cloth accordingly come and say we are forever to tread water in the bottom two divisons at least we know where we stand rather than declaring "we will move forward" then 10 games before the end of the season and still in with a chance, pretty much give up despite the fact we can't raise a 16 match squad and are playing 15 year olds in the reserves and 14 year olds in the sodding youth team. What grates most was we were willing to pay good money for KK and Leon Clarke when that failed to materialise TTA seemingly put the chequebook away leaving the team up :censored:creek without a paddle. The losses you speak off will be a damn sight more when we sell only 2,000 season tickets over the summer, I know this club and its fans and they will vote with their feet. They see an administration that is becoming increasingly detatched from its fanbase.

As for 'bleating' about last minute signings, we should have signed players in January end of. Today is our last opportunity, lets take advanatge of that. By the way Jeff, don't put words in my mouth I bleat about nothing, I offer my opinion. As I say you have your own agenda thats your choice. Being detatched I prefer to see things as they are.

 

Like I said, you are welcome to an opinion. Some of it I agree with and some of it I don't. Won't stop me responding if I get the urge. No agenda from me - just a difference of opinion. You have your version of events and I have mine.

 

Sometimes I think certain individuals are way too close to the club to form an objective opinion.

 

Interesting though that you seem to think that knowledge of facts means my opinion is less valid than those based on pure speculation.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Why do people get slagged off on this board if they even dare question the owners or manager?

 

As far as I can see, nobody has slagged you off. Some have agreed and others have disagreed. Fancy that eh on a Messageboard?

 

It's called having an opinion and entering into debate. What's the problem?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I have my opinion, you have yours yet you feel compelled to reply and try to belittle anyone and everyone who dares criticise the hierachy, trust or management. I know what Barry does, as a past member of the trust I attended a couple of meetings in the early days and a couple of the AGM's. And I do still try and attend various functions, meals etc... when finances allow. As for the march everyone put a lot of effort in, drumming up support, writing letters and emails to here there and everywhere, and MY idea of standing for election was seized upon and passed off as other people's ideas. If you check back through the posts on here I was the first poster to to suggest 'Direct action' as I did to Barry on leaving the Civic Centre on the 14th November. Unlike others I don't want a medal or recognition for what I have done for the club, same as I didn't when I gave my time and money during the summer of hell.

 

I do it out of love for MY club and if I want to get annoyed and stamp my feet occasionally out of sheer frustration, I damn well will do. Some may agree, some may think i'm talking balls, thats life thats what messageboards are about.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

 Share

×
×
  • Create New...