Genuine Question

[Inspiral_Carpet]

I have my opinion, you have yours yet you feel compelled to reply and try to belittle anyone and everyone who dares criticise the hierachy, trust or management. I know what Barry does, as a past member of the trust I attended a couple of meetings in the early days and a couple of the AGM's. And I do still try and attend various functions, meals etc... when finances allow. As for the march everyone put a lot of effort in, drumming up support, writing letters and emails to here there and everywhere, and MY idea of standing for election was seized upon and passed off as other people's ideas. If you check back through the posts on here I was the first poster to to suggest 'Direct action' as I did to Barry on leaving the Civic Centre on the 14th November. Unlike others I don't want a medal or recognition for what I have done for the club, same as I didn't when I gave my time and money during the summer of hell.

 

I do it out of love for MY club and if I want to get annoyed and stamp my feet occasionally out of sheer frustration, I damn well will do. Some may agree, some may think i'm talking balls, thats life thats what messageboards are about.

 

 

Paul - I've removed the Livermore bit. I shouldn't have raised it and apologise.

 

I am belittling nobody. It's a disagreement of opinion. An alternate view. If my way of writing and opinion offends you and others then sorry but there you go.

 

I know you have done a lot for OAFC. Read what I said again and I recognise loads have done as much if not more than me. Don't forget though I was replying to your accusation that I have an open Agenda. I don't. So please don't get all aeriated just because I exercise my right of reply.

 

Couldn't agree more about what Messageboards are all about. Opinion and debate but stopping short of the personal stuff.

 

I pointed out that I disagreed with some of your words (in this post and others) and then you attack me as you think I have an Agenda and start raising things that I do in my private life. In other words making it personal. I'm a big boy too and can take it but please don't whine about being belittled by my opinion (and preaching about what Messageboards are all about) when you yourself are the one not playing by the generally accepted rules.

[Bring Back Ronnie Moore]

With our injury worries does anyone think that we'll pick up the 5 wins out of 6 that might just edge us into a playoff spot?

[oafcprozac]

Paul - I've removed the Livermore bit. I shouldn't have raised it and apologise.

 

I am belittling nobody. It's a disagreement of opinion. An alternate view. If my way of writing and opinion offends you and others then sorry but there you go.

 

I know you have done a lot for OAFC. Read what I said again and I recognise loads have done as much if not more than me. Don't forget though I was replying to your accusation that I have an open Agenda. I don't. So please don't get all aeriated just because I exercise my right of reply.

 

Couldn't agree more about what Messageboards are all about. Opinion and debate but stopping short of the personal stuff.

 

I pointed out that I disagreed with some of your words (in this post and others) and then you attack me as you think I have an Agenda and start raising things that I do in my private life. In other words making it personal. I'm a big boy too and can take it but please don't whine about being belittled by my opinion (and preaching about what Messageboards are all about) when you yourself are the one not playing by the generally accepted rules.

 

Ok, perhaps I could have worded 'the agenda' bit better, it wasn't intended to be an attack more an observation. I say what I think others display a little more decorum I respect them for that. What I don't respect is being replied to like i'm a naughty schoolboy who should know better. As i'm usually in the middle of something else such as revision. I reply quickly and tend to do so in the heat of the moment.

 

As for the Livermore bit, I was right he played....although Shez bit the bullett and played Lomax too, instead of going with two wingers, which I also said at the time i felt would be enough to get us out of this division, instead Shez preferred to play a centre-midfielder out wide in Macca or Allott or even Livermore, though left-sided is no winger, despite his cross at VP.

[oafcprozac]

With our injury worries does anyone think that we'll pick up the 5 wins out of 6 that might just edge us into a playoff spot?

 

 

PMSL!

 

I hope that's a whoosh..............

[Corporal_Jones]

Your problem Jeff is you have your own agenda. Sometimes I think certain individuals are way too close to the club to form an objective opinion. A reason why i've never felt the need to stand as a trust director. Serious questions should be being asked, instead the same voices expect fans of more than 20 years to just accept "it will be alright in the end." As for repeating myself, if it looked as though strides were being made i'd be happy. Speak to the vast majority of fans who do not post on here and they will offer similar opinions to those such as mine, those that do, do offer similar evaluation, Lags, Corporal Jones, Midsblue even perennial optimists such as BB80 are beginning to question WTF is going on at the moment. You swallow we're losing this and we're losing that, yes we are but the TTA chose to buy the club so instead of bleating about losses or getting trust directors to do it for them why not cut the cloth accordingly come and say we are forever to tread water in the bottom two divisons at least we know where we stand rather than declaring "we will move forward" then 10 games before the end of the season and still in with a chance, pretty much give up despite the fact we can't raise a 16 match squad and are playing 15 year olds in the reserves and 14 year olds in the sodding youth team. What grates most was we were willing to pay good money for KK and Leon Clarke when that failed to materialise TTA seemingly put the chequebook away leaving the team up :censored:creek without a paddle. The losses you speak off will be a damn sight more when we sell only 2,000 season tickets over the summer, I know this club and its fans and they will vote with their feet. They see an administration that is becoming increasingly detatched from its fanbase.

As for 'bleating' about last minute signings, we should have signed players in January end of. Today is our last opportunity, lets take advanatge of that. By the way Jeff, don't put words in my mouth I bleat about nothing, I offer my opinion. As I say you have your own agenda thats your choice. Being detatched I prefer to see things as they are.

 

 

Absolutely spot on.

 

If this is what it's like now-3,600 and falling (yesterday's statement in the Chron will see us shed another few hundred)-imagine what the mood at the club would be if the planning application was dead or still in doubt.

 

Worrying times.

Edited March 27, 2008 by Corporal_Jones

[drphibes]

I think it all to little to late for this season and any moves into the transfer market should have been carried out a weeks ago. It says a lot about ambition for the current campaign when radio Manchester are reporting that Stockport and Rochdale are both actively searching to bring in new players today, Stockport probably want to cement their position in the playoffs and Rochdale must feel that even though they are only 1 point off the playoff berths they need some fresh input into the squad. I have stated in the past that the Beckett signing was like a breath of fresh air to the relegation haunted Latics a few seasons ago and the addition of a decent player at this level can make a big different but it seems after AH's words in the chron we cannot be bothered trying anymore.

 

Roll on next season because this one is being written off by most of the fans especially when the club have now pretty much accepted defeat.

[Inspiral_Carpet]

You swallow we're losing this and we're losing that, yes we are but the TTA chose to buy the club so instead of bleating about losses or getting trust directors to do it for them why not cut the cloth accordingly come and say we are forever to tread water in the bottom two divisons at least we know where we stand rather than declaring "we will move forward" then 10 games before the end of the season and still in with a chance, pretty much give up despite the fact we can't raise a 16 match squad and are playing 15 year olds in the reserves and 14 year olds in the sodding youth team

 

Just for the record Paul, anything that I say on here is my personal opinion. I'd be amazed if TTA ever asked anybody to talk on their behalf on a Messageboard which is what you are implying. It certainly isn't something that I would ever do and I'm certain that others from the Trust would think likewise.

 

Look at the evidence though Paul. The squad that was assembled, the acquisitions made since to cover injuries and also the money set aside for players like Kilkenny and Clarke. If you seriously think that this was part of a master plan to simply remain in the bottom two Leagues then I'm amazed.

 

There's lots of things that have combined to make this Season a poor one. Incredible bad luck with injuries; inconsistency on the field; some poor signings; some let-downs with transfers at the last minute and some rank bad play at times. Personally, I think a lot of the problems have emanated from Shez and I believe that we have been let down by the manager in a few key areas. I've said that on other threads. Don't want him to go though as he will hopefully learn from his mistakes and constant change is not what is needed.

 

I firmly believe though that TTA have backed him. I think normally, the investment would have been enough to have got promotion this Season. Yes there have been unavoidable problems with injuries but also, there has been timidity in the transfer market despite resources being available to get in the right players. I'll repeat that we have got in 4 loan signings since January. Not exactly an indicator that the cheque book was put away.

 

It would be great if we could go up despite all this. Personally though, if anyone here says they would still gamble their own money on a 4% chance of promotion after already significantly breaking their set budget then I would be truly amazed.

 

Again, I will state that these are my own personal thoughts and opinions. Shouldn't have to do that and it really irks that I have to say that due to implication from others who purport to know my own mind better than myself.

[oafcprozac]

Just for the record Paul, anything that I say on here is my personal opinion. I'd be amazed if TTA ever asked anybody to talk on their behalf on a Messageboard which is what you are implying. It certainly isn't something that I would ever do and I'm certain that others from the Trust would think likewise.

 

Look at the evidence though Paul. The squad that was assembled, the acquisitions made since to cover injuries and also the money set aside for players like Kilkenny and Clarke. If you seriously think that this was part of a master plan to simply remain in the bottom two Leagues then I'm amazed.

 

There's lots of things that have combined to make this Season a poor one. Incredible bad luck with injuries; inconsistency on the field; some poor signings; some let-downs with transfers at the last minute and some rank bad play at times. Personally, I think a lot of the problems have emanated from Shez and I believe that we have been let down by the manager in a few key areas. I've said that on other threads. Don't want him to go though as he will hopefully learn from his mistakes and constant change is not what is needed.

 

I firmly believe though that TTA have backed him. I think normally, the investment would have been enough to have got promotion this Season. Yes there have been unavoidable problems with injuries but also, there has been timidity in the transfer market despite resources being available to get in the right players. I'll repeat that we have got in 4 loan signings since January. Not exactly an indicator that the cheque book was put away.

 

It would be great if we could go up despite all this. Personally though, if anyone here says they would still gamble their own money on a 4% chance of promotion after already significantly breaking their set budget then I would be truly amazed.

 

Again, I will state that these are my own personal thoughts and opinions. Shouldn't have to do that and it really irks that I have to say that due to implication from others who purport to know my own mind better than myself.

 

This is getting boring now, you've already replied to my post so why again decide to do so from a different angle. Anything else you have to say you can say to my face. I've obviosly touched a nerve I didn't mean to, but by Christ this is becoming tedious and it isn't the first time you have singled me out for personal crirticism. I haven't forgotten the 'getting the wrong end of the stick ....as usual' comment from a few weeks back.I chose to let that lie but now it is becoming tedious. You are the one that has made this personal, you are like a dog that won't let go of a bone, I offered my observations perhaps incorrectly and for that I apologised then you drag the same sort of comments up to pretty much highlight what you have previously said.

[Inspiral_Carpet]

This is getting boring now, you've already replied to my post so why again decide to do so from a different angle. Anything else you have to say you can say to my face. I've obviosly touched a nerve I didn't mean to, but by Christ this is becoming tedious and it isn't the first time you have singled me out for personal crirticism. I haven't forgotten the 'getting the wrong end of the stick ....as usual' comment from a few weeks back.I chose to let that lie but now it is becoming tedious. You are the one that has made this personal, you are like a dog that won't let go of a bone, I offered my observations perhaps incorrectly and for that I apologised then you drag the same sort of comments up to pretty much highlight what you have previously said.

 

Fair enough Paul. No problem with saying anything to you in person as you are aware. To be honest, I only spotted your comment that I was acting as a stooge on behalf of TTA/ The Trust when the Corp re-posted your comments. Your words annoyed me intensely as they are insulting and totally incorrect. I wasn't trying to prolong the debate but just clarifying something which needed to be put right as you were misrepresenting me.

 

Must have missed the apology but never mind.

 

It's done and dusted from me now but have a re-read and see just who has been like the dog with a bone jumping to all sorts of wrong conclusions and innuendo. Maybe you are posting "in the heat of the moment" but that is hardly my fault.

 

EDIT - Not sure where you get the "personal criticism" bit from. I disagree with some of what you say - same as I do with plenty of others. Lots we agree on too but what's the point in slapping one another on the back? It isn't personal just debate on a Messageboard. I don't hold any grudges against you in the slightest mate but like others that I know personally (ie BB80 etc), you have strong views and so it is always good to spar occasionally.

 

Definitiely nothing personal.

[Ketsbaia]

Is it honestly the worst football you've seen at the club for 10 years?

 

I mean, really?

 

I simply don't believe that for a minute. And I speak as someone well used to being served up dross.

[oafcprozac]

Is it honestly the worst football you've seen at the club for 10 years?

 

I mean, really?

 

I simply don't believe that for a minute. And I speak as someone well used to being served up dross.

 

 

Yep, those that are lucky enough to get to Millwall, Southend, Bournemouth etc... have been served up a rare treat this season. Until the end of January the home performances in the main were the worst I have seen since Ritchie and served up as many 'nil' performances we did in the 'potless' years.

 

Some of the delights we've seen at home this season include 1-0 defeats to Hartlepool, Huddersfield, Leeds, Northampton, Bristol Rovers, Southend United and a 0-2 vs Walsall, I don't think we created a gilt-edged chance in any of those games. Followed by such stunning peformnaces from Port Vale, playing us off the park and lucky to scrape a 1-1 draw. Brighton nicking a point with 10 men. Oh and Southend beat us with 10 men.

 

Home peformances have been better since the 2-0 win vs Carlisle, but it 'aint been fun sat in the Paupers Paddock getting my fortnightly drenching watching some of the dross metioned.

[danoafc]

Is it honestly the worst football you've seen at the club for 10 years?

 

I mean, really?

 

I simply don't believe that for a minute. And I speak as someone well used to being served up dross.

 

What do you know anyway, Mr 135?

[daznathe]

Sheridan. No promotion = keeps job. Promotion = Andy Ritchie at Barnsley sacking.

 

why? already got half a mill to spend which would be increased and at least ruuuuuubes, eardley, lomax, taylor, allott, macca, lewis, hughes, davies able to play at that level imo. sign a keeper a couple of defenders and a winger and its game on, although greegs fish out of waterness would be massively increased with the higher calibre (and pace) of opposition.

[Frankly Mr Shankly]

Yep, those that are lucky enough to get to Millwall, Southend, Bournemouth etc... have been served up a rare treat this season. Until the end of January the home performances in the main were the worst I have seen since Ritchie and served up as many 'nil' performances we did in the 'potless' years.

 

Some of the delights we've seen at home this season include 1-0 defeats to Hartlepool, Huddersfield, Leeds, Northampton, Bristol Rovers, Southend United and a 0-2 vs Walsall, I don't think we created a gilt-edged chance in any of those games. Followed by such stunning peformnaces from Port Vale, playing us off the park and lucky to scrape a 1-1 draw. Brighton nicking a point with 10 men. Oh and Southend beat us with 10 men.

 

Home peformances have been better since the 2-0 win vs Carlisle, but it 'aint been fun sat in the Paupers Paddock getting my fortnightly drenching watching some of the dross metioned.

 

I really respect your opinions Prozac, often look at threads where you've posted before others and all that.

 

With all due respect, I just think you're blowing a lot of things out of proportion. I've been going for as long as you have and as many games as you have. This season is certainly not been the worst I've ever experienced, it's just performances which you highlighted are relatively fresh in the memory. We've served up just as much dross and with a bigger 'dross ratio' in days of yore but thankfully most people choose to banish them from memory pretty quickly. I remember the dull 0-1 defeat to Bristol Rovers back in September, but I can't really acutely recall a miserable defeat to Millwall 10 years ago. They still happened though.

 

I think for me the buzz word for this season has been frustration. We've seen what we're capable of on plenty of occasions, and also seen new diamonds unearthed with the likes of Smalley and Alessandra. We've had the budget but things have just gotten in the way. In fact, in my honest opinion we're higher in the division than I expected us to be given how injury ravaged we are.

 

Shez is certainly not without flaw though. Wellens went and wasn't adequately replaced, hence why we struggled to create much. Left sided players are released and we then go to put square pegs in round holes. If those two problems/handicaps had been rectified immediately there'd be and instant improvement. So he has this summer to really get his act together for me. If we've having this discussion this time next season, I think I'll be struggling to KTF for sure.

[Frankly Mr Shankly]

Some of the delights we've seen at home this season include 1-0 defeats to Hartlepool, Huddersfield, Leeds, Northampton, Bristol Rovers, Southend United and a 0-2 vs Walsall, I don't think we created a gilt-edged chance in any of those games.

 

Erm, we did. Smalley missed two open goals and Stam has had a couple of open headers which he should have buried. Not sure which match was which but I definitely recall certain gilt-edged chances being missed. There wasn't many, I'll admit but there was more than nil or zero.

[DerekWilson_1968]

I'd be amazed if TTA ever asked anybody to talk on their behalf on a Messageboard which is what you are implying.

 

I wouldn't.

 

KtF,

 

Derek.

[Ketsbaia]

Yep, those that are lucky enough to get to Millwall, Southend, Bournemouth etc... have been served up a rare treat this season. Until the end of January the home performances in the main were the worst I have seen since Ritchie and served up as many 'nil' performances we did in the 'potless' years.

 

Some of the delights we've seen at home this season include 1-0 defeats to Hartlepool, Huddersfield, Leeds, Northampton, Bristol Rovers, Southend United and a 0-2 vs Walsall, I don't think we created a gilt-edged chance in any of those games. Followed by such stunning peformnaces from Port Vale, playing us off the park and lucky to scrape a 1-1 draw. Brighton nicking a point with 10 men. Oh and Southend beat us with 10 men.

 

Any worse than the 0-2 defeat to Hartlepool three seasons back? Or the 2-0 away defeat to Torquay Utd? Or the abysmal 2-0 away defeat to Brentford in the piss pouring rain?

 

As FMS says, there's plenty of dross there, just that the most recent ones are freshest in the memory. I think he's bang on with the frustration part of it, though. It's even more galling when you're beaten by 10-man Southend at home when you can go and thrash Leeds off the park at Elland Road.

[oafcprozac]

Any worse than the 0-2 defeat to Hartlepool three seasons back? Or the 2-0 away defeat to Torquay Utd? Or the abysmal 2-0 away defeat to Brentford in the piss pouring rain?

 

As FMS says, there's plenty of dross there, just that the most recent ones are freshest in the memory. I think he's bang on with the frustration part of it, though. It's even more galling when you're beaten by 10-man Southend at home when you can go and thrash Leeds off the park at Elland Road.

 

 

Ok change my wording to most frustrating football i've seen in a long time. At least we knew what we would get under Rugby Ron, under Shez we've seen a lot of good football, countered by a fair bit of frustrating and naive football, espaecially his reluctance to go with two wingers when I feel we have been at our best and most threatening. It probably isn't the worst footie i've sen in 22 years, as you say it just feels like it as it is fresh in the memory. I'll take the three games you mention and raise you the 1-0 defeat at Wigan in March '98, the 2-0 home defeat to Southend in March '95 and the 3-0 home deat to Grimsby on my 20th Birthday in Feb '97. I feel so much better now, just when you think we really are crap, the memory stirs up past matches that were far, far, worse!

 

3-1 to the blues today, feel it in my water. Although 7 points off the Play Offs now, I think the horse has genuinely bolted. Lets concentrate on finishing as high as possible and then all bugger off to the Med, get refreshed and come back all guns blazing for an F5 fest throughout June and July.

[oafcprozac]

Any worse than the 0-2 defeat to Hartlepool three seasons back? Or the 2-0 away defeat to Torquay Utd? Or the abysmal 2-0 away defeat to Brentford in the piss pouring rain?

 

As FMS says, there's plenty of dross there, just that the most recent ones are freshest in the memory. I think he's bang on with the frustration part of it, though. It's even more galling when you're beaten by 10-man Southend at home when you can go and thrash Leeds off the park at Elland Road.

 

 

Ok change my wording to most frustrating football i've seen in a long time. At least we knew what we would get under Rugby Ron, under Shez we've seen a lot of good football, countered by a fair bit of frustrating and naive football, especially his reluctance to go with two wingers when I feel we have been at our best and most threatening. It probably isn't the worst footie i've seen in 22 years, as you say it just feels like it, as it is fresh in the memory. I'll take the three games you mention and raise you the 1-0 defeat at Wigan in March '98, the 2-0 home defeat to Southend in March '95 and the 3-0 home deat to Grimsby on my 20th Birthday in Feb '97. I feel so much better now, just when you think we really are crap, the memory stirs up past matches that were far, far, worse!

 

3-1 to the blues today, feel it in my water. Although 7 points off the Play Offs now, I think the horse has genuinely bolted. Lets concentrate on finishing as high as possible and then all bugger off to the Med, get refreshed and come back all guns blazing for an F5 fest throughout June and July.

Edited March 29, 2008 by oafcprozac

[Stevie_J]

...This is getting boring now...

...but by Christ this is becoming tedious...

...but now it is becoming tedious...

...you are like a dog that won't let go of a bone...

Interesting method of debate - post something provocative and when you get a response, drone on about how dull the whole thing is.

 

Last-word syndrome at its best/worst.