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Mansfield Town / Harchester United ?


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I knew that Notts were scabs, how come mansfield are?

Erm, what county is Mansfield in? It’s Chesterfield who particularly take issue relating to the Miners strike. Of course, some might argue that the term, “scab,” is a bit harsh for people who went to their jobs rather than taking orders off an unelected corrupt communist trade Union leader who used his Yorkshire bully-boys to try to intimidate them into an unballoted, ridiculously planned and ultimately self-harming strike, all whilst having a dead ferret on his head, but that’s another matter altogether.

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Erm, what county is Mansfield in? It’s Chesterfield who particularly take issue relating to the Miners strike. Of course, some might argue that the term, “scab,” is a bit harsh for people who went to their jobs rather than taking orders off an unelected corrupt communist trade Union leader who used his Yorkshire bully-boys to try to intimidate them into an unballoted, ridiculously planned and ultimately self-harming strike, all whilst having a dead ferret on his head, but that’s another matter altogether.

 

Indeed, plus it's where the turncoats/yellowbellies/UDM were based.

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Erm, what county is Mansfield in? It’s Chesterfield who particularly take issue relating to the Miners strike. Of course, some might argue that the term, “scab,” is a bit harsh for people who went to their jobs rather than taking orders off an unelected corrupt communist trade Union leader who used his Yorkshire bully-boys to try to intimidate them into an unballoted, ridiculously planned and ultimately self-harming strike, all whilst having a dead ferret on his head, but that’s another matter altogether.

 

 

 

Unelected? I think you'll find that Scargill was elected by the NUM membership with 70% of the vote in a secret ballot, and re-elected with a similar majority after the defeat of the 1984-5 strike. Check the facts.

 

Oh, and he left the Communist Party in the 1960s, long before he became a nationally known figure, and, rightly or wrongly, absolutely castigated the party for what was, in his opinion, less than full enthusiasm for the above-mentioned strike.

 

As for intimidation, you would do well to read a few of the many accounts of the strike before pointing the finger with regard to exactly where most of the intimidation was coming from.

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Unelected? I think you'll find that Scargill was elected by the NUM membership with 70% of the vote in a secret ballot, and re-elected with a similar majority after the defeat of the 1984-5 strike. Check the facts.

 

Oh, and he left the Communist Party in the 1960s, long before he became a nationally known figure, and, rightly or wrongly, absolutely castigated the party for what was, in his opinion, less than full enthusiasm for the above-mentioned strike.

 

As for intimidation, you would do well to read a few of the many accounts of the strike before pointing the finger with regard to exactly where most of the intimidation was coming from.

 

 

I'm outing the Corporal as a Red on this very blue board. :wink:

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I'm outing the Corporal as a Red on this very blue board. :wink:

 

 

 

You don't have to 'out' me. I'm open about what I think about a whole variety of issues that arise on boards like this.

 

However, stating the facts about an issue doesn't necesarily mean you are partisan about it.

 

Can the self-employed strictly be 'Reds', by the way? What does the term even mean nowadays?

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Can the self-employed strictly be 'Reds', by the way? What does the term even mean nowadays?

An interesting point indeed. Stipey, another of the board's Communist infiltrators*, is also a closet capitalist.

 

As the NUM leadership sat on a huge pot of money, vast offices and large salaries for years after there were more than about 17 miners left in the country for themselves, they clearly had quite an eye for a financial gain, albeit not on the free market. As for their former members, well it's sad when anyone loses their job, but if their Union hadn't made overthrowing democratically elected Governments part of their remit, perhaps they might have kept them a little longer. And the intimidation you say they suffered might be because they beat the crap out of their colleagues who didn't want to take part in the Yorkshire lead strike that they had no say in calling.

 

Oh, and as for Scargill winning re-election, might that be because the people who didn't like him left?

 

*This statement is not to be taken entirely literally

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An interesting point indeed. Stipey, another of the board's Communist infiltrators*, is also a closet capitalist.

 

As the NUM leadership sat on a huge pot of money, vast offices and large salaries for years after there were more than about 17 miners left in the country for themselves, they clearly had quite an eye for a financial gain, albeit not on the free market. As for their former members, well it's sad when anyone loses their job, but if their Union hadn't made overthrowing democratically elected Governments part of their remit, perhaps they might have kept them a little longer. And the intimidation you say they suffered might be because they beat the crap out of their colleagues who didn't want to take part in the Yorkshire lead strike that they had no say in calling.

 

Oh, and as for Scargill winning re-election, might that be because the people who didn't like him left?

 

*This statement is not to be taken entirely literally

 

 

 

I can't be a closet anything when I've just openly stated what I am.

 

You seem to be overlooking a few things, meanwhile. Firstly, that the pit closure plan was drawn up in advance of any action taken by the NUM. Secondly, the inevitability that there would be a response from miners to mass pit closures was anticipated in the Ridley report, drawn up by the Conservative Party prior to the election of Thatcher with the aim of crippling the NUM in mind after the defeats inflicted by the union on Thatcher's predecessor. This planning included the deployment of a 'national' police force given free-rein to use the paramilitary methods pioneered in the north of Ireland, in the strike. Thirdly, in contrast to the government's aim of destroying a democratically constituted trade union, there was no aim on the union's part of 'overthrowing' a democratically elected government-although some NUM leaders and many rank-and-file members made no secret of the fact that they would not be unhappy to see the strike force a general election which might unseat the Tories-and it was, in any case, only under such a scenario, tame in comparison to the revolutionary violence implied in the term 'overthrow', that the Thatcher government could possibly have been removed. Fourthly, when it comes to undemocratic methods (and no government anywhere has ever been brought to heel by the economic vandalism of capital flight and other sabotage by big business, has it...), you have to take into account the activities of the secret state, which included, as is now widely acknowledged by members of the cabinet at the time, as well as prominent members of the security services, the use of a mole (or possibly more than one) in the NUM leadership, and the widespread use of agents provocateurs on picket lines and demonstrations. This leaves aside the fact that, as mining communities were deliberately more or less sealed off from the outside world, the police were given free-rein to do pretty much what they wanted to miners and their families, all of it going largely unreported by a media uniformly hostile to the strike. In contrast the strkers were demonised throughout the media.

 

There is also the issue of the scab union, the UDM, and the role of a the man (his name escapes me for now) later involved in the mercenary scandal in which Mark Thatcher was involved, when a wealthy group of dubious repute tried to overthrow, for some kind of personal gain, the government of an African State (the name of which also escapes me, although it's all googleable). Lavishly funded by the secret state, he was able to go to work on the most slavish individuals in the weakest areas of the strike, specifically Nottinghamshire. Without this full-time organisation and money, there would have been no breakwaway union.

 

In total, the NUM lost, I seem to remember, around a quarter of its overall membership, mostly concentrated in scab areas, so far from 'everybody who was opposed to Scargill having left' by the time he was re-elected, the vast majority of that majority who had remained elected him for a second time, in a secret ballot, and this after the strike's defeat.

 

Other facts: the 'vast pot of money' you refer to-while not insubstantial, NUM funds were nothing in comparison to the resources at the disposal of the state, the government and private groups and individuals who backed it, and were under constant threat of sequestration. The rank-and-file miners were not stupid and fully understood what they were sacrificing, and were prepared to do so because they knew what was at stake, which was, as we subsequently saw, the destruction of not only the collieries but entire communities. NUM officials forfeited their salaries for the duration of the strike, and as for the Maxwell/Roger Cooke attempt to stitch up Scargill for creaming off funds, not only was Scargill, entirely vindicated, but after 'honest' Mr Maxwell's death, the editor of the Daily Mirror at the time, Roy Greenslade, publicly apologised in print to Scargill, albeit in a different paper (the Guardian-you can still read the apology online.) In contrast to what you claim, there was only one 'vast office' of the union, the HQ in Sheffield (modest in comparson to the headquarters of most middle-sized companies), that many union officials had been opposed to moving to in the first place, fearing that it might distract from the union's community role. All of this is easily verifiable with a bit of googling.

 

As I said, I am no 'red' (whatever that means now), but you don't have to be in order to understand that the strikers made a stand against the deliberate destruction of one of the nation's key industries solely for political reasons. In contrast to the Nottinghamshire scabs, they put their communities and social solidarity before the squalid grasping after an extra few quid and damn the consequences. Their defeat is a prominent landmark along the way to the atomised, confused, celebrity-obsessed society we have now, with its dark underbelly of hard drugs and gun crime, symbolised by the gutted, heroin and crack-ravaged former mining communities up and down the north and midlands, still struggling to find a role in British life a full generation later. The strikers were not saints, and did sometimes indulge in intimidation-but then again, the minority of strikers in areas where their pits remained at work suffered the same, the only difference being that they had the full force of the government, state and hostile media to contend with too.

 

David Peace's meticulously researched novel GB84 gives you a taste of what took place during the strike. (Peace has no left-wing or labour movement background.) Perhaps you ought to take time to read it; I expected more than the mere repetition of idle pub chit chat and glib parroting of media-disseminated myths from you, LL.

Edited by Corporal_Jones
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