edhunteruk Posted April 23, 2008 Share Posted April 23, 2008 Thats such a black and white way of looking at it and typical of most football fan. There is every chance we will be competing in a league next year made up of a mixture of: Leicester Southampton Sheff Wed Forest Leeds All of which will have a greater ability to attract the best players and to pay the most money. Now no matter how good of a squad Shez puts together if we have a similar seasons with injuries then we could of move forward but just have had bad look. These arent excuses, its called judging on the merits of the situation.... Its totally blinkered to say if we finish in the top ten we havent moved forward.... doesnt every football fan think in black and white terminology......if you win your home games and draw your away games you wont be far off going up. if you dont win and only draw a few you wont go up,it really is that simple....... now you can throw any other concoction into the mix that there are better teams in the division with more spending power and so on and so forth,but at the end of the day if the manager brings in who he thinks is going to get us promoted and play better football than this season,and they dont perform or he cant make them perform and the team finishes in either a relegation fight or mid table obscurity....then you would have to say we havent progressed first season play offs second season prolly missing out by 6 points third season has to be playoffs.......anything less is a failure........and that goes for most clubs. not just ours Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stitch_KTF Posted April 23, 2008 Share Posted April 23, 2008 Can anybody explain the logic in keeping Liddell? 1) He's too slow to pass a full back. 2) He doesn't tackle. 3) He 'bottles' the big challenges. 4) He's 34 and coming back from a serious injury. 5) He was anonymous against Orient and truly awful against Northampton. Stick with Smalley and give him support. We saw against Everton and Orient what he is capable of. Can you honestly see Liddell going on a run that got us the first goal against Orient? To keep Liddell is a backward step when the money would be better used elsewhere to improve the squad. KEEP THE FAITH I explained it under one of your quotes the other day but you didnt respond I dont think. It seems you just dont like the fella fullstop! 1) He's too slow to pass a full back. Like Beckham is, and like Lids was last year when he had 50% more assists than the guy who had the second most in the league. 2) He doesn't tackle. Doesnt he? Besides it isnt part of his game/responsibility. Hardly rare. 3) He 'bottles' the big challenges. Throw away remark 4) He's 34 and coming back from a serious injury. I think he is 35 and has already come back from his successful op 5) He was anonymous against Orient and truly awful against Northampton. He wasnt anonymous against Orient (his first full game in 6 months). Didnt go to Northampton but didnt you excuse Jarrets performance due to him being unfit? Lets judge our players on a level playing field. but he still has more quality in his right boot than the rest of the squad bar Hughes put together. Quite, and in his head. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikejh45 Posted April 23, 2008 Share Posted April 23, 2008 (edited) I explained it under one of your quotes the other day but you didnt respond I dont think. It seems you just dont like the fella fullstop! 1) He's too slow to pass a full back. Like Beckham is, and like Lids was last year when he had 50% more assists than the guy who had the second most in the league. 2) He doesn't tackle. Doesnt he? Besides it isnt part of his game/responsibility. Hardly rare. 3) He 'bottles' the big challenges. Throw away remark 4) He's 34 and coming back from a serious injury. I think he is 35 and has already come back from his successful op 5) He was anonymous against Orient and truly awful against Northampton. He wasnt anonymous against Orient (his first full game in 6 months). Didnt go to Northampton but didnt you excuse Jarrets performance due to him being unfit? Lets judge our players on a level playing field. Quite, and in his head. Apologies if I didn't respond. But yes, you could say I'm not a big fan. 1) I don't think you can really make a comparison between Beckham & Liddle. Yes, Beckham may not be able to pass a player, but he can change a game by getting a grip of it. Not something you could say Liddell would or could do. 2) I think tackling is every player's responsibility. Defending starts from the front. 3) I'm not the only one who has this opinion of him. And no, it's not a throwaway remark. 4) We need to attack with pace and a 35 y.o. ain't gonna do it. 5) I'm not alone in thinking he was anonymous against Orient. My point regarding Jarrett is we saw him play well against Huddersfield where he ran at players but we haven't seen it since. If he does it more consistently then he will be an asset, but he only 2 more opportunities. I just don't see any benefits for next season in keeping Liddell. What we need, in my opinion, on the flanks is pace and the ability to pass players to draw out defenders and then cross the ball. Give the forwards something to attack. KEEP THE FAITH Edited April 23, 2008 by mikejh45 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oafc0000 Posted April 23, 2008 Share Posted April 23, 2008 now you can throw any other concoction into the mix that there are better teams in the division with more spending power and so on and so forth,but at the end of the day if the manager brings in who he thinks is going to get us promoted and play better football than this season,and they dont perform or he cant make them perform and the team finishes in either a relegation fight or mid table obscurity....then you would have to say we havent progressed first season play offs second season prolly missing out by 6 points third season has to be playoffs.......anything less is a failure........and that goes for most clubs. not just ours I just cant agree with this... Lifes just much more complicated... The average football fan is an idiot as well so sorry if I dont go a long with the normal way of thinking... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
edhunteruk Posted April 23, 2008 Share Posted April 23, 2008 I just cant agree with this... Lifes just much more complicated... The average football fan is an idiot as well so sorry if I dont go a long with the normal way of thinking... im not really interested if you agree or dissagree with it,its another persons view or opinion of it. the final league table in 2 weeks time will show where we have finished how many games we won and lost,how many points we accumalated and how many goal difference we had. black and white it will show we didnt go up. what it wont show is the amount of late goals we conceded how may players we had out injured at any given time,and how many games were the players just went through the motions instead of giving there all.......but it doesnt need to show all that. most fans will look at the table and see we didnt go up.and finished lower than last season. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aerorossi29 Posted April 23, 2008 Share Posted April 23, 2008 Thats such a black and white way of looking at it and typical of most football fan. There is every chance we will be competing in a league next year made up of a mixture of: Leicester Southampton Sheff Wed Forest Leeds All of which will have a greater ability to attract the best players and to pay the most money. Now no matter how good of a squad Shez puts together if we have a similar seasons with injuries then we could of move forward but just have had bad look. These arent excuses, its called judging on the merits of the situation.... Its totally blinkered to say if we finish in the top ten we havent moved forward.... it would be interesting if you quantified what you would consider a succesful season for us next year! im sure as hell not going to be happy paying to watch us finish mid table yet again, for me that is failure. realistically we have regressed this season, whatever the reason is it is plain fact and as has been debated on this thread elsewhere the table will show that. we havent been good enough and there in no getting away from that fact. next season is going to be a massive challenge with all the former prem clubs in there but we seriously need to step up and the likes of lidds and stef are not up to it imo Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oafc0000 Posted April 24, 2008 Share Posted April 24, 2008 (edited) it would be interesting if you quantified what you would consider a succesful season for us next year! im sure as hell not going to be happy paying to watch us finish mid table yet again, for me that is failure. realistically we have regressed this season, whatever the reason is it is plain fact and as has been debated on this thread elsewhere the table will show that. we havent been good enough and there in no getting away from that fact. next season is going to be a massive challenge with all the former prem clubs in there but we seriously need to step up and the likes of lidds and stef are not up to it imo When judging the manager at end of the season you have to take into account all the curve balls which where thrown during that season... In my opinion we have moved forward this season. There isnt many of the current playing staff who wont be here next term. Allott was a great buy, Davies looks promising, Hughes did well all things considered, a number of the kids look good who where given chances. When you factor in we lost Wellens and Porter in the summer so there were big loses for any league one side + the injurieies this season has been a resonable success. We have a good basis to build on for the first time in years. As Edhunter says, its black and white in football fans heads. Well that dosent make it right. Got to judge managers fairly. I would be happy next term if we create competion for every place and we have a sqaud big enough with enough qauility to withstand a fair amount of injuries. Im not going to judge shez off the final league postion, thats just plain stupid. Its going to be even tougher league next season looking at whats coming down and whats going up from league two. No doubt none of this matters to most of you lot and you will judge him off if we get a play off spot or not.... I seriously question if thats the correct way to judge a manager... history says it isnt anyway.... Edited April 24, 2008 by oafc0000 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
saddylatic Posted April 24, 2008 Share Posted April 24, 2008 (edited) Apologies if I didn't respond. But yes, you could say I'm not a big fan. 1) I don't think you can really make a comparison between Beckham & Liddle. Yes, Beckham may not be able to pass a player, but he can change a game by getting a grip of it. Not something you could say Liddell would or could do. 2) I think tackling is every player's responsibility. Defending starts from the front. 3) I'm not the only one who has this opinion of him. And no, it's not a throwaway remark. 4) We need to attack with pace and a 35 y.o. ain't gonna do it. 5) I'm not alone in thinking he was anonymous against Orient. My point regarding Jarrett is we saw him play well against Huddersfield where he ran at players but we haven't seen it since. If he does it more consistently then he will be an asset, but he only 2 more opportunities. I just don't see any benefits for next season in keeping Liddell. What we need, in my opinion, on the flanks is pace and the ability to pass players to draw out defenders and then cross the ball. Give the forwards something to attack. KEEP THE FAITH FINALLY someone speaking realism and not sentiment!! yes Liddell can cross a ball WWOOOWW!! he has nothing else to offer us im sorry except getting the ball on halfway and passing inside to eardley and then pointing into space like he does. Been a great player but his total lack of pace doesnt do the team any favours or himself any justice when on the wing, in midfield or up front. He may pride himself on his fitness and fair play, but he is finished now and in my opinion would be a waste of a wage and hinder the progress of smalley on the wing just for the sake of us getting the odd good cross or pass from him every 5 games. cheers andy but time to go. Edited April 24, 2008 by saddylatic Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aerorossi29 Posted April 24, 2008 Share Posted April 24, 2008 When judging the manager at end of the season you have to take into account all the curve balls which where thrown during that season... In my opinion we have moved forward this season. There isnt many of the current playing staff who wont be here next term. Allott was a great buy, Davies looks promising, Hughes did well all things considered, a number of the kids look good who where given chances. When you factor in we lost Wellens and Porter in the summer so there were big loses for any league one side + the injurieies this season has been a resonable success. We have a good basis to build on for the first time in years. As Edhunter says, its black and white in football fans heads. Well that dosent make it right. Got to judge managers fairly. I would be happy next term if we create competion for every place and we have a sqaud big enough with enough qauility to withstand a fair amount of injuries. Im not going to judge shez off the final league postion, thats just plain stupid. Its going to be even tougher league next season looking at whats coming down and whats going up from league two. No doubt none of this matters to most of you lot and you will judge him off if we get a play off spot or not.... I seriously question if thats the correct way to judge a manager... history says it isnt anyway.... I take everything you say on board and im envious of you in the fact you will not judge Shez or any manager based on their results. Fair play to you, you have more patience than most which is not detracting from you. What i will say and its an often heard cliche is that football is a results driven game nowadays, and we are no different. I dont think there is any harm in people wanting to see a little more from us given that Shez has been here 3 years and we have whatever way you look at it , gone backwards this year. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OldhamSheridan Posted April 24, 2008 Share Posted April 24, 2008 FINALLY someone speaking realism and not sentiment!! yes Liddell can cross a ball WWOOOWW!! he has nothing else to offer us im sorry except getting the ball on halfway and passing inside to eardley and then pointing into space like he does. Been a great player but his total lack of pace doesnt do the team any favours or himself any justice when on the wing, in midfield or up front. He may pride himself on his fitness and fair play, but he is finished now and in my opinion would be a waste of a wage and hinder the progress of smalley on the wing just for the sake of us getting the odd good cross or pass from him every 5 games. cheers andy but time to go. There is a pretty large split on this. Those that say Lidds is a class above at this level, takes care of the ball and is a useful cog in the Oldham Athetic attack. Then there are those that say he NEVER plays the ball forward as he can't beat the defender and is unwilling to try, slows our attacks to the point of them completely failing and is a hinderence to not only attacks but is detrimental to Eardley's career and will cost us more money by making him look a poor player than he will in wages (which will still be considerable). Let's put it this way, I ain't the former. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OldhamSheridan Posted April 24, 2008 Share Posted April 24, 2008 In my opinion we have moved forward this season. You can't honestly believe this can you? I think I count in the happy clapper category - but just look at some of the games this year compared to last. Last season was mid-February before we got some poor performances (when the squad ran out). Even then they weren't too poor. Vale away, Cheltenham, Crewe stand out to me. This season has had terrible performances regularly. Bristol Rovers, Hartlepool, Southend, Northampton, Walsall, Brighton, Hartlepool, Luton, Swindon, Northampton - and I doubt that's it for the season. Alright, we've had injuries and the squad was not ready and a million and one things. But we have been poor throughout the season and have most certainly not moved forward from last year. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oafc0000 Posted April 24, 2008 Share Posted April 24, 2008 You can't honestly believe this can you? I think I count in the happy clapper category - but just look at some of the games this year compared to last. Last season was mid-February before we got some poor performances (when the squad ran out). Even then they weren't too poor. Vale away, Cheltenham, Crewe stand out to me. This season has had terrible performances regularly. Bristol Rovers, Hartlepool, Southend, Northampton, Walsall, Brighton, Hartlepool, Luton, Swindon, Northampton - and I doubt that's it for the season. Alright, we've had injuries and the squad was not ready and a million and one things. But we have been poor throughout the season and have most certainly not moved forward from last year. I do belive it... I am ofcourse factoring out of the thinking process Porter and Wellens, two players I never thought we would keep. But yes I do... The sqaud is quite good...just need reenforcing...unlike last year went it needed stripping and rebuilding... The like of Rocastle for me where never good enough... And to say we have been poor through the season is not true. We had a great away run and beat some top sides along the way. Anyway...opinions...never going to agree are we :P Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OldhamSheridan Posted April 24, 2008 Share Posted April 24, 2008 I do belive it... I am ofcourse factoring out of the thinking process Porter and Wellens, two players I never thought we would keep. But yes I do... The sqaud is quite good...just need reenforcing...unlike last year went it needed stripping and rebuilding... The like of Rocastle for me where never good enough... And to say we have been poor through the season is not true. We had a great away run and beat some top sides along the way. Anyway...opinions...never going to agree are we :P Hold on, factoring out the bad points (Wellens and Porter), but including the good points (Rocastle, Edwards, etc.). You can't just forget our best midfielder we've had in this division and our top scoring forward for nigh on thirty years*. I see some improvements. The squad is better. Young lads are coming through with regularity. But there are bad things and sadly they out number the good this season. No left sided player (instead of one poor one) is nothing short of criminal. The complete lack of preparation for the season - and what preparation we had was completely revised on the first day. But more than anything is the number of soulless performances which now number in double figures. I can see how people may be lacking in the faith we are supposed to keep - especially those that watch only home games. On the bright side, I think I can see where the team is heading. We aren't missing too many players to make us a functional unit again, especially if Hughes is able to stay fit. Having said that I'm not one of what seems a majority now that is saying Sheridan has to do something great next year - just stable improvement will do me. *This may not be true. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oafc0000 Posted April 24, 2008 Share Posted April 24, 2008 Hold on, factoring out the bad points (Wellens and Porter), but including the good points (Rocastle, Edwards, etc.). You can't just forget our best midfielder we've had in this division and our top scoring forward for nigh on thirty years*. You can when your talking about assesing a manager... I dont belive Shez could have gotten Porter to stay. he was off, out of the Shezs hands. Wellens wanted more than we could afford so again not fair to judge shez on it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
edhunteruk Posted April 24, 2008 Share Posted April 24, 2008 You can when your talking about assesing a manager... I dont belive Shez could have gotten Porter to stay. he was off, out of the Shezs hands. Wellens wanted more than we could afford so again not fair to judge shez on it. were not judging him on poerter or wellens.were judging him on his performance this season as manager,with the players he had at the start of the season and the players he has at the end of the season. were judging him on 46 league games and a handfull of cup games,were judging him on finishing not in the playoffs like last season. so next season we blow a big budget on quality players,play outstanding football week in and week out,and end up in the bottom 3, does that mean you still wouldnt judge him on results???? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oafc0000 Posted April 25, 2008 Share Posted April 25, 2008 (edited) were not judging him on poerter or wellens.were judging him on his performance this season as manager,with the players he had at the start of the season and the players he has at the end of the season. were judging him on 46 league games and a handfull of cup games,were judging him on finishing not in the playoffs like last season. If you look above people are saying you cant just ignore the fact were weaker without these two so your wrong mate. People are saying we have gone backwards without these players. People said above u cant just ignore the bad points. so next season we blow a big budget on quality players,play outstanding football week in and week out,and end up in the bottom 3, does that mean you still wouldnt judge him on results???? To be frank, thats just an idiotic statement..... Edited April 25, 2008 by oafc0000 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
edhunteruk Posted April 25, 2008 Share Posted April 25, 2008 If you look above people are saying you cant just ignore the fact were weaker without these two so your wrong mate. People are saying we have gone backwards without these players. People said above u cant just ignore the bad points. To be frank, thats just an idiotic statement..... if you wish to call yourself frank thats your choice..... quantify it for me why it is an idiotic statement please.......it is highly unlikely.but it could happen.....and if it does what would you judge him on then.its not a trick question or anything. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oafc0000 Posted April 26, 2008 Share Posted April 26, 2008 (edited) if you wish to call yourself frank thats your choice..... quantify it for me why it is an idiotic statement please.......it is highly unlikely.but it could happen.....and if it does what would you judge him on then.its not a trick question or anything. Its idiotic question because if any manager spent a lot of money on good players and ended up near the bottom ofcourse they would be prime for sacking......its stupid to put the question to someone..... Edited April 26, 2008 by oafc0000 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
edhunteruk Posted April 26, 2008 Share Posted April 26, 2008 Its idiotic question because if any manager spent a lot of money on good players and ended up near the bottom ofcourse they would be prime for sacking......its stupid to put the question to someone..... so in that case then he would be judged on results........so therefor this season he isnt being judged on results because of all the injuries and inconsistant performances????? like i say its a results driven game and buisness,if the manager doesnt get the results he loses his job.if he does get the results he gets rewarded..anything that happens within that time is part and parcel of the game. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lookers_Carl Posted April 26, 2008 Share Posted April 26, 2008 In m opinion sheridan has to be given to christmas at least If we look capable of a promotion challenge then give him to end of season However, if we look like failing to mount a challenge by beginning of feb/ early march next year, in my opinion he has to go then, as any new manager we may bring in to replace him will need time to see who he wants to keep and get rid off, and i think we will have a fair few out of contract too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oafc0000 Posted April 26, 2008 Share Posted April 26, 2008 so in that case then he would be judged on results........so therefor this season he isnt being judged on results because of all the injuries and inconsistant performances????? like i say its a results driven game and buisness,if the manager doesnt get the results he loses his job.if he does get the results he gets rewarded..anything that happens within that time is part and parcel of the game. Ed as ever you are making no sense at all.... You cant argue with an idiot, because an idiot dosent think logically.....a good friend once taught me that....and its soo very true....night... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
edhunteruk Posted April 27, 2008 Share Posted April 27, 2008 Ed as ever you are making no sense at all.... You cant argue with an idiot, because an idiot dosent think logically.....a good friend once taught me that....and its soo very true....night... you said you couldnt judge shez this season on results alone........because according to you there has been far too much disruption ie players moving on and getting injured etc etc etc. but players leaving and getting injured is all part and parcel of the game,and it is the same for each and every manager in the league,other teams have had injuries yet managed to outplay us and so on.this is where the manager earns his crust and shows just what kind of manager and character he is. in mine and a lot of other peoples view its been a bad season as the aim was minimum playoffs....so therefor shez should be judged on the fact we didnt make them,forget the injuries and everything else,it really is black and white and we failed....so therefor he is judged on his results this season. the hypothetical question was posed because you cant or wont acknowledge the fact that its a results driven game,and if you wasnt judging sheridan on this seasons results,what would you be judging him on next season. as for arguing with an idiot.....i wouldnt call you an idiot,thats unfair on all the villages up and down the country isnt it Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bring Back Ronnie Moore Posted April 27, 2008 Share Posted April 27, 2008 It baffles me that some people want Sheridan out. It really does. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stitch_KTF Posted April 27, 2008 Share Posted April 27, 2008 but players leaving and getting injured is all part and parcel of the game,and it is the same for each and every manager in the league,other teams have had injuries yet managed to outplay us and so on.this is where the manager earns his crust and shows just what kind of manager and character he is. Obviously it is the extent of injuries incurred this season which people put forward as an excuse for Shez. It was far from the same for each and every manager. Why do some fail to grasp this??? Cue "we were crap before the injuries bit" blah blah blah...... As for losing Wellens well that was out of Sheridans hands and would be a blow any club our size would feel. To be honest im surprised we ever got him in the first place and in turn surprised Donny got him off us. Porter I dont feel was a loss....I prefer our current crop of strikers and very much doubt Porter would have scored many this season without Mr Assists there to bounce them off his forehead/arse into the net. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest oa_exile Posted April 27, 2008 Share Posted April 27, 2008 It baffles me that some people want Sheridan out. It really does. What a baffling post I will give you a clue , expectations Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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