mikejh45 Posted April 28, 2008 Author Share Posted April 28, 2008 boundaryblue80, it looks like it's you and me against the world regarding this emotive subject. If Liddell makes an effective contribution next season, I will be the first to say I got it wrong. But effective does not include passing sideways or backwards every time. There must be a positive move at some point. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gemma06 Posted April 28, 2008 Share Posted April 28, 2008 I feel im the only one who ever defends Lidds on here surely somebody else could do for a change....Mike probably thinks im picking on him! Or maybe maybe I (and Shez) am wrong and Lidds is a useless has been..... Defending Lids on here is fighting a losing battle, but all that maters is that Shez rates him and will be offering him a new contract. He has been injured for quite a lot of this season and he wasn't in the best of form early season but who did he have to aim for him the box? He is putting the exact same balls into the box as he was last season the only difference is there is no-one like Porter in there getting on the end of them. Hopefully with Hughes and Lids playing together a bit more next season that will change. Fact is Lids is a damn good professional football player and you, me and more importantly Shez knows that. Lids has acheived more in football than anyone on here will. Just because he has no pace does not make him a bad player. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest oa_exile Posted April 28, 2008 Share Posted April 28, 2008 Defending Lids on here is fighting a losing battle Not really Gemma , I am a Lidds fan and he will be here next season Let Shez have the last say on it Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigfinLatic Posted April 28, 2008 Share Posted April 28, 2008 boundaryblue80, it looks like it's you and me against the world regarding this emotive subject. If Liddell makes an effective contribution next season, I will be the first to say I got it wrong. But effective does not include passing sideways or backwards every time. There must be a positive move at some point. Dont worry mike - i'm still here too!!! I heard Leeslover was sat next to this old guy at the awards dinner who said that Andy Liddell was pretty much finished as a winger... and that his preference was to play at centre mid for the rest of his career... ... hang on a minute... that old man was Andy Liddell!!! Straight from the horses mouth... even he admits he aint a winger anymore.. playing him there is football suicide, you might as well have 10 men.. I have relaxed my stance on Lids - as I appreciate the value of possibly having him in the centre - purely cos of his brain and the runs of hughesy and Davies... I really think it could work with Lids being backed up by a couple of Yard dogs in the centre to do all his running... then Taylor, Davies and Hughes picking his passes upfront... However, as a winger he is unfortunately pants... his last indian summer ender 18 months ago as BB80 rightfully says... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stitch_KTF Posted April 28, 2008 Share Posted April 28, 2008 Lets play a game. Spot the Lidds contribution to each and every goal from both central and wide areas......not least his work at 1:12, where he shows blistering pace in beating the entire oposition in just a second. The Massacre Yes it is a little while ago but there is nothing to my mind that suggests he isnt capable of this anymore. It wasnt that many appearances ago. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikejh45 Posted April 29, 2008 Author Share Posted April 29, 2008 When Liddell, and I will reiterate when because I fully expect him to be here next season, pulls on the blue shirt Of Latics I will give him my full support when he runs onto the field. I will cheer him if and when I think he does something good. If he plays badly, I will not shout abuse during the game. I will reserve my comments good or bad to here. I am KEEPING THE FAITH Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fergie Posted April 29, 2008 Share Posted April 29, 2008 Aberdeen are sniffing around Gary McDonald acording to the rag (Sun) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
daznathe Posted April 29, 2008 Share Posted April 29, 2008 im more concerned with getting davies tied down to prevent another trotman situation Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stitch_KTF Posted April 29, 2008 Share Posted April 29, 2008 im more concerned with getting davies tied down to prevent another trotman situation Take it you mean a Porter situation? I think a 500k offer for Davies would be tempting, although I probably wouldnt sell just yet. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
daznathe Posted April 29, 2008 Share Posted April 29, 2008 Take it you mean a Porter situation? I think a 500k offer for Davies would be tempting, although I probably wouldnt sell just yet. no i mean trotman, if davies doesnt sign up in the summer and starts bangin em in then other clubs can tap him up in december so we sell him, probably for about £400k spread over ten years with an extra tenner if he plays 700 games for wales. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigfinLatic Posted April 29, 2008 Share Posted April 29, 2008 Take it you mean a Porter situation? I think a 500k offer for Davies would be tempting, although I probably wouldnt sell just yet. Are you absolutely ? Not only do you rate Liddell but you would sell a guy who scored 14 goals in half a season for £500k! I honestly dont know what some of our fans watch... always saftey and mediocrity of excitement and flair... ... and as for that forest clip - that is exactly what we are talking about, he did that for 3 months then decided to just go missing... he hasnt done anything like that since... which is exactly why we dont think he is cappable of that anymore - not too long ago?? That was a bloody season and a half ago!!! A good 70 odd games if not more!!!! He hasnt done anything for 70 games - i'd love to see how many players could get a contract on the back of that record... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stitch_KTF Posted April 29, 2008 Share Posted April 29, 2008 Are you absolutely ? Not only do you rate Liddell but you would sell a guy who scored 14 goals in half a season for £500k! I honestly dont know what some of our fans watch... always saftey and mediocrity of excitement and flair... ... and as for that forest clip - that is exactly what we are talking about, he did that for 3 months then decided to just go missing... he hasnt done anything like that since... which is exactly why we dont think he is cappable of that anymore - not too long ago?? That was a bloody season and a half ago!!! A good 70 odd games if not more!!!! He hasnt done anything for 70 games - i'd love to see how many players could get a contract on the back of that record... I said I probably wouldnt sell, even though I dont particularly rate Davies. He's ok but without his pace he would be ######. If Liddell has played 70 odd games since the NYD Massacre then im a Finnish man. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigfinLatic Posted April 29, 2008 Share Posted April 29, 2008 I said I probably wouldnt sell, even though I dont particularly rate Davies. He's ok but without his pace he would be ######. If Liddell has played 70 odd games since the NYD Massacre then im a Finnish man. The fact he has been injured for most of em makes no difference, he still played most the latter half of last season.. when offering a player a contract you have to look at what he has contributed, and if his legs have gone and is prone to injuries that is part of the decision... I'm with Mike on this - Liddell frustrates the hell out of me... but its Shez's call, and if he pulls on the shirt next year i will give him my all... however if he plays on the wing it will jsut give the game to the opposition... a fit hughes will give him something to aim for... however the only way he can contribute I feel is in the centre, and that inh a 3 where someone else does all his running... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
garcon Posted April 29, 2008 Share Posted April 29, 2008 (edited) The fact he has been injured for most of em makes no difference. Ok, on that basis let's judge Hughes and Davies as if they'd played a full season. 8 and 14 goals respectively - no where near enough - get rid! Edited April 29, 2008 by garcon Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stitch_KTF Posted April 29, 2008 Share Posted April 29, 2008 The fact he has been injured for most of em makes no difference, he still played most the latter half of last season.. when offering a player a contract you have to look at what he has contributed, and if his legs have gone and is prone to injuries that is part of the decision... I'm with Mike on this - Liddell frustrates the hell out of me... but its Shez's call, and if he pulls on the shirt next year i will give him my all... however if he plays on the wing it will jsut give the game to the opposition... a fit hughes will give him something to aim for... however the only way he can contribute I feel is in the centre, and that inh a 3 where someone else does all his running... He isnt injury prone. Agree he ought to be in the middle though, wasnt he always a central player anyway?!? Do you think Davies is worth more than Trotters? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
leezyverpunk Posted April 29, 2008 Share Posted April 29, 2008 Crosso, Macca, Stammy had good seasons for what I have seen so defo. Lids - not sure I would choose him before Smalley - if we keep him on godda be pay as you play! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigfinLatic Posted April 29, 2008 Share Posted April 29, 2008 (edited) Ok, on that basis let's judge Hughes and Davies as if they'd played a full season. 8 and 14 goals respectively - no where near enough - get rid! I was expecting that from someone but not from you! There are 3 key differences - and you know that. - Firstly they are not out of contract this summer, so the debate is irrelevant - and if they are both injured all next season then they too should be out on their ear. - Secondly, neither are 35, hughesy getting close yes.. but 2/3 years is a long time at the end of your career - and lids legs has gone downhill fast. - Thirdly - both have contributed more this season than andy Liddell, simple as, Hughes and Lids have probably palyed a similar number of games - howveer no-one can argue that the impact of hughes in those games has been markedly more than that of Liddell in his. He isnt injury prone. Agree he ought to be in the middle though, wasnt he always a central player anyway?!? Do you think Davies is worth more than Trotters? Yes - massively, its the way of the world Goalscorers will be worth more than defenders. Look at it this way... if Davies had played all season he would have scored 20-25 goals, and be touted as one of the 'hottest prospects' in league one, be in the team of the year, 442's top 50 football league players, and the rest - suddely he is worth £1m easy... Trotters would have still been a promising young player even if he continued his mazing form - and be still worth £500k... All about them goals - davies can score em... again, not my favourite player, but his potential is amazing... Edited April 29, 2008 by BigfinLatic Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
garcon Posted April 29, 2008 Share Posted April 29, 2008 I was expecting that from someone but not from you! I like to surprise people occasionally. Of course I'm not being serious about getting rid of Hughes and Davies. I just rate Liddell more than you do. And I still think he has something to offer us next season - probably off the pitch as much as on. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gemma06 Posted April 29, 2008 Share Posted April 29, 2008 , he did that for 3 months then decided to just go missing... he hasnt done anything like that since... The end of last season Porter was injured, and this season when Lids has been playing (especially the beginning of the season when he was playing through injury) he has had no-one in the box to get on the end of his crosses. Next season with Hughes, Davies and another striker should Shez sign one then they, especially Hughes, will thrive on quality balls into the box. A decent winger needs decent players in the box and vice versa. Porter and Warne but especially Porter teamed up with Lids very very well they made each other look good, if he is putting decent balls into the box then there needs to be someone there who will get on the end of them. Porter knew where he had to be and he had the ability to get put the ball in the back of the net regularly and Lids was able to pick him out, next season i hope Hughes and Lids could form a similar partnership. If he doesn't play out wide but just behind the strikers he will be able to play davies in Hughes through who both have the ability to find the net. He also hasn't been helped by Wellens leaving because he could pick out Lids whilst he was in space, they were on the same wave length, they can think quicker than your average league one player. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
boundaryblue80 Posted April 29, 2008 Share Posted April 29, 2008 (edited) The end of last season Porter was injured Lol...excuse number 1...so Porter wasn't fit, doesn't mean Lids should refuse to get further up the pitch when the space appears...as it does during games... (especially the beginning of the season when he was playing through injury) Blimey, that's a new one....he had a full preseason behind him. All of a sudden, now the excuse being used is he was playing with an injury.... and this season when Lids has been playing he has had no-one in the box to get on the end of his crosses. As said previously, that's due to him ignoring space infront to run into...instead slipping the ball in behind the full back and draggin Davies, Smalley or whoever else from the middle, onto the wing. Leaving us barren in the middle and attacks generally unbalanced. Lids has once exploited space this season, Tranmere away where Hughes' excellent work opened up the gap for Lids to run in behind and cross from DEEP....this is the word...from DEEP....he did this last season for 3mths when he ventured into gaps. Now he's an agrophobic old man who refuses to run into space...not beat a man...run into space!!! Anyone who can't see this trait in him is utterly blinkered beyond reason. Those criticising him as I and others do, will admit he can cross the ball and has intelliegence but this is all held back by this unwillingness to use the space! Sadly where we'll admit his plusses, I'm getting fecked off at those who won't admit his weaknesses, the biggest weakness being one that utterly nullifies his crossing abilities when he crosses from nowhere near forward enough for the ball to be dangerous. Oh well..... Edited April 29, 2008 by boundaryblue80 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gemma06 Posted April 30, 2008 Share Posted April 30, 2008 The end of last season Porter was injured Lol...excuse number 1...so Porter wasn't fit, doesn't mean Lids should refuse to get further up the pitch when the space appears...as it does during games... (especially the beginning of the season when he was playing through injury) Blimey, that's a new one....he had a full preseason behind him. All of a sudden, now the excuse being used is he was playing with an injury.... and this season when Lids has been playing he has had no-one in the box to get on the end of his crosses. As said previously, that's due to him ignoring space infront to run into...instead slipping the ball in behind the full back and draggin Davies, Smalley or whoever else from the middle, onto the wing. Leaving us barren in the middle and attacks generally unbalanced. Lids has once exploited space this season, Tranmere away where Hughes' excellent work opened up the gap for Lids to run in behind and cross from DEEP....this is the word...from DEEP....he did this last season for 3mths when he ventured into gaps. Now he's an agrophobic old man who refuses to run into space...not beat a man...run into space!!! Anyone who can't see this trait in him is utterly blinkered beyond reason. Those criticising him as I and others do, will admit he can cross the ball and has intelliegence but this is all held back by this unwillingness to use the space! Sadly where we'll admit his plusses, I'm getting fecked off at those who won't admit his weaknesses, the biggest weakness being one that utterly nullifies his crossing abilities when he crosses from nowhere near forward enough for the ball to be dangerous. Oh well..... I have never not admitted Lids has weaknesses, of course he does otherwise he wouldn't be playing for us would he, same as if Smalley could finish or cross more consistantly well he wouldnt be here or if Davies could finish more consistantly he wont be here and if they both continue to improve then we will struggle to hold on to them. He has not changed his game one bit since he got here, he has not stopped running to the touch line to put balls into the box because he has hardly ever done that whilst he's been here. He is putting the same balls into the box from the same place as he has done the three seasons he has been here the only difference this season from last is that there has been no-one in the box to get on the end of the crosses, hence me mentioning Porter, next season i think Lids and Hughes to strike up a similar partnership as Porter/Lids had. Yes he did have a full pre-season and he played well pre-season just behind the front two but then got dropped for Kilkenny and after a few games back in the team was having problems with his knee but tried to play but ended up having to have the op. That is not an excuse (not that he needs one) it's a fact Next season we have Lids and Smalley to fight for a spot on the right, though both can play through the middle too, both are very different and bring different qualities to the team, thats a good thing, if we start with Lids one game but aren't getting anywhere then we have Smalley to come on with his pace and if we start a game with smalley but he isn't having any luck getting past the full back then we have Lids to come on who can create space for himself to cross the ball without having to get beyond the full back. The more quality players we have next season the better, if no-one is guaranteed a starting spot then they will all be out there fighting for their place Football is all about opinions, if everyone thought the same then it would be pretty dull wouldnt it. I can't believe how some people claim that Taylor is better than Lids or Lomax is better than Eardley, thats not to say i don't think Taylor and Lomax have their good points it's just i prefer Lids quality on the ball over Taylors pace for example. At the end of the day it doesn't really matter what we think, Shez is going to offer Lids a contract and its then up to him whether he thinks the terms are acceptable, if does we'll have the pleasure of seeing him for another 12 months and if he doesn't then it will make you and others who don't rate him very happy and stop the many posts on here about his pros and cons Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
edhunteruk Posted April 30, 2008 Share Posted April 30, 2008 I have never not admitted Lids has weaknesses, of course he does otherwise he wouldn't be playing for us would he, same as if Smalley could finish or cross more consistantly well he wouldnt be here or if Davies could finish more consistantly he wont be here and if they both continue to improve then we will struggle to hold on to them. He has not changed his game one bit since he got here, he has not stopped running to the touch line to put balls into the box because he has hardly ever done that whilst he's been here. He is putting the same balls into the box from the same place as he has done the three seasons he has been here the only difference this season from last is that there has been no-one in the box to get on the end of the crosses, hence me mentioning Porter, next season i think Lids and Hughes to strike up a similar partnership as Porter/Lids had. Yes he did have a full pre-season and he played well pre-season just behind the front two but then got dropped for Kilkenny and after a few games back in the team was having problems with his knee but tried to play but ended up having to have the op. That is not an excuse (not that he needs one) it's a fact Next season we have Lids and Smalley to fight for a spot on the right, though both can play through the middle too, both are very different and bring different qualities to the team, thats a good thing, if we start with Lids one game but aren't getting anywhere then we have Smalley to come on with his pace and if we start a game with smalley but he isn't having any luck getting past the full back then we have Lids to come on who can create space for himself to cross the ball without having to get beyond the full back. The more quality players we have next season the better, if no-one is guaranteed a starting spot then they will all be out there fighting for their place Football is all about opinions, if everyone thought the same then it would be pretty dull wouldnt it. I can't believe how some people claim that Taylor is better than Lids or Lomax is better than Eardley, thats not to say i don't think Taylor and Lomax have their good points it's just i prefer Lids quality on the ball over Taylors pace for example. At the end of the day it doesn't really matter what we think, Shez is going to offer Lids a contract and its then up to him whether he thinks the terms are acceptable, if does we'll have the pleasure of seeing him for another 12 months and if he doesn't then it will make you and others who don't rate him very happy and stop the many posts on here about his pros and cons i dont think its anything to do with not rating him.....i think its more to do with the fact he is another year older,and his legs have nearly gone. as for other players being better and so on,all our players have the potential to be better than they are,and better than other teams,it just takes a while for them to understand that,and some fans need to understand that in normal circumstances,these young kids who have done exceptionally well wouldnt of been anywhere near the first team,and need to get off there backs and encourage them.....these youngsters should be able to play without fear,but you know as well as i do that one missplaced pass and they get jumped on. i would have to say see how pre season goes,but would play smalley above liddell,for his pace,and use liddell from the bench. and i thought it was his achillies heel that went not his knee??? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gemma06 Posted April 30, 2008 Share Posted April 30, 2008 and i thought it was his achillies heel that went not his knee??? its been a busy morning at work Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikejh45 Posted April 30, 2008 Author Share Posted April 30, 2008 The more quality players we have next season the better, if no-one is guaranteed a starting spot then they will all be out there fighting for their place Football is all about opinions, if everyone thought the same then it would be pretty dull wouldnt it. I can't believe how some people claim that Taylor is better than Lids or Lomax is better than Eardley, thats not to say i don't think Taylor and Lomax have their good points it's just i prefer Lids quality on the ball over Taylors pace for example. At the end of the day it doesn't really matter what we think, Shez is going to offer Lids a contract and its then up to him whether he thinks the terms are acceptable, if does we'll have the pleasure of seeing him for another 12 months and if he doesn't then it will make you and others who don't rate him very happy and stop the many posts on here about his pros and cons The reason why the likes of Taylor and to a slightly lesser extent Smalley are considered to be better than the "present-day" Liddell is that they attack at pace and tie-up/draw out of position more than one defender. The game that Liddell plays requires just the one defender because that defender knows Liddell will not try and pass him. Let's look forward, not backwards. Liddell's time has gone. Let him go. You know it makes sense!!! KEEP THE FAITH Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Macca Posted April 30, 2008 Share Posted April 30, 2008 Liddell has to stay, he is a quality player. You don't have to have 'the legs' to deliver quality crosses into the box and create chances although I do appreciate it might help! It must be more entertaining to see a quick winger like JJ, Aaron Lennon and Shaun Wright-Phillips run down the wings beating players for fun, but what about their delivery once they've done that? Oh but he beat all those players, what for?! I think this dislike of Liddell is a bit like the dislike of Beckham playing for England, both aren't quick but if Beckham didn't play in the World Cup in Germany we wouldn't have got through the group stages FACT. I would love our wingers deliver quality crosses AND be able to beat their man with skill and pace but if I had to choose one it would be to deliver quality crosses, something Liddell and Beckham are very very good at and your pacey wingers mentioned above aren't! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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