mikejh45 Posted April 30, 2008 Author Share Posted April 30, 2008 (edited) Liddell has to stay, he is a quality player. You don't have to have 'the legs' to deliver quality crosses into the box and create chances although I do appreciate it might help! It must be more entertaining to see a quick winger like JJ, Aaron Lennon and Shaun Wright-Phillips run down the wings beating players for fun, but what about their delivery once they've done that? Oh but he beat all those players, what for?! I think this dislike of Liddell is a bit like the dislike of Beckham playing for England, both aren't quick but if Beckham didn't play in the World Cup in Germany we wouldn't have got through the group stages FACT. I would love our wingers deliver quality crosses AND be able to beat their man with skill and pace but if I had to choose one it would be to deliver quality crosses, something Liddell and Beckham are very very good at and your pacey wingers mentioned above aren't! Stop comparing the game of Liddell to Beckham, fer gawd's sake!!! It's a nonsense argument. Beckham runs back to pick the ball up and move it forward and when brought on as a sub (i.e. Croatia) made a massive impact by changing the game, by looking for the ball, by getting involved. Liddell gets the ball and 99 times out of a 100 passes it back. He is not the player he was 2 years ago. Edited April 30, 2008 by mikejh45 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gemma06 Posted April 30, 2008 Share Posted April 30, 2008 The reason why the likes of Taylor and to a slightly lesser extent Smalley are considered to be better than the "present-day" Liddell is that they attack at pace and tie-up/draw out of position more than one defender. The game that Liddell plays requires just the one defender because that defender knows Liddell will not try and pass him. Let's look forward, not backwards. Liddell's time has gone. Let him go. You know it makes sense!!! KEEP THE FAITH But whats the point of a quick winger who can't cross? Taylor is quick yes and will worry defenders with his pace but the guy can't cross, the odd one goes into the area but most are either over hit or put out of play or go straight to the keeper. You can't have everything in a league player and next season we will have Lids and Smalley who's pro's and cons are almost the exact oppsite of each other, one will suit playing against some teams and the other will suit playing against other teams, i doubt any will start every game next season and in the two of them we have two quality players. Between them they are the perfect winger Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stitch_KTF Posted April 30, 2008 Share Posted April 30, 2008 The reason why the likes of Taylor and to a slightly lesser extent Smalley are considered to be better than the "present-day" Liddell is that they attack at pace and tie-up/draw out of position more than one defender. The game that Liddell plays requires just the one defender because that defender knows Liddell will not try and pass him. Let's look forward, not backwards. Liddell's time has gone. Let him go. You know it makes sense!!! KEEP THE FAITH Interestingly a team who play in red made a cup final last night. The difference? A moment of quality from an ageing, experienced player (whose legs have apparently gone) after pace in different areas of the team helped present the opportunity. Mike, pace alone does not win football matches. Pace within a team is essential yes but not in every position. Can anybody clarify for me, does Lidds ALWAYS pass backwards or ALWAYS 'slip' the ball in behind the fullback which in turn drags our centre forward (and presumably opposition centre half then) out of position? Also, which of these provide the massive amount of assists he is credited with? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikejh45 Posted April 30, 2008 Author Share Posted April 30, 2008 Interestingly a team who play in red made a cup final last night. The difference? A moment of quality from an ageing, experienced player (whose legs have apparently gone) after pace in different areas of the team helped present the opportunity. Mike, pace alone does not win football matches. Pace within a team is essential yes but not in every position. Can anybody clarify for me, does Lidds ALWAYS pass backwards or ALWAYS 'slip' the ball in behind the fullback which in turn drags our centre forward (and presumably opposition centre half then) out of position? Also, which of these provide the massive amount of assists he is credited with? Again, we are talking about a different sort of player. Yes, Scholes is getting on but he still looks to attack and move forward but he's always done that because that is, his and always has been his, natural position. Liddell, in his day was a quality centre forward and, if my memory serves me right still holds the record for goals scored at Wigan. I don't think he had a happy time at Sheff. U. when he got moved to the wing by Warnock because he isn't a natural wide player. All the talk on here to keep him is to slot him in here or there with an expectation he's going to produce a bit of magic. For the crosses from Liddell to be productive, we need a big centre-forward who can muscle into the right places in the way Porter did. We don't have that sort of player at the club at the moment. I go back to the Huddersfield game, admittedly against poor opposition, but we played with pace AND skill and that is the benchmark we should be aiming for. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Macca Posted April 30, 2008 Share Posted April 30, 2008 I go back to the Huddersfield game, admittedly against poor opposition, but we played with pace AND skill and that is the benchmark we should be aiming for. I agree entirely with that, I would love to see us play like that every game and if we can find players who can do that and create chances then I'm all for it. Liddell can't play with pace but he can and does create chances and I don't think there's anyone else at the moment who can create as many chances as Liddell can. With my comparison with Beckham, yes they are different players but they are both right-wingers with no blistering pace but in my opinion very important players for the sides they play for. Pace isn't everything. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lags Posted April 30, 2008 Share Posted April 30, 2008 Liddell's worth one more season defo. Yes I'll accept he now as his limitations but, is at league one level a very good pro to have in the squad and I reckon would re-sign for average wages. The way I look at the squad and who to stay and go is simple, those that I dont believe can do a job, I would release and replace with someone who could. Those that can do a job but not neccessarilly a certain starter, I would retain on reflective wages. If this theory is carried throughout the process you end up with a squad of players in two catagories. Those that can do it week in week out and those that can come into the side in one's or two's without weakening the side. That my brothers is a winning squad. I am glad Sheridan attempted to keep Macca cos he's in 'those can do a job' bracket in a side that will go up, whereas Kalala is in neither and needs releasing, aka Thompson, Wolfy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frankly Mr Shankly Posted April 30, 2008 Share Posted April 30, 2008 I'd keep Liddell on, definitely with reduced terms. I don't think people here understand the other thing he brings to the side which is guidance and advice to the young lads. It's often been said about how he chats to the young lads and gives them a bit of confidence. I'd also like to think he'll be used in perhaps a different way, maybe more of a central role. He can spot a pass, his control is top notch so he's got two of the main attributes needed. I feel Smalley and Taylor will be used more wide right anyway, assuming left sided players are brought in. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikejh45 Posted April 30, 2008 Author Share Posted April 30, 2008 I agree entirely with that, I would love to see us play like that every game and if we can find players who can do that and create chances then I'm all for it. Liddell can't play with pace but he can and does create chances and I don't think there's anyone else at the moment who can create as many chances as Liddell can. With my comparison with Beckham, yes they are different players but they are both right-wingers with no blistering pace but in my opinion very important players for the sides they play for. Pace isn't everything. You are correct, pace isn't everything. Sheriden proved that, even his brother proved that. But Beckham has always been a wide right player who even now has decided where his team-mates are and what he is going to do with the ball before it has reached him. Wide right is not Liddell's natural position. In my honest, humble opinion, Liddell's influence on the game next season will be negligible. I just see an ageing player who will get marked out of the game by a good, solid defender. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
garcon Posted April 30, 2008 Share Posted April 30, 2008 You don't need pace if you can make the ball do the work and those around you do have pace. Oh, and ... "Beckham runs back to pick the ball up" ... not any more he bloody doesn't. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikejh45 Posted April 30, 2008 Author Share Posted April 30, 2008 You don't need pace if you can make the ball do the work and those around you do have pace. Oh, and ... "Beckham runs back to pick the ball up" ... not any more he bloody doesn't. Are we watching the same Liddell here? I read some of your musings and that a fully fit Liddell is somehow going to be the answer to our midfield and attacking problems. Amazing!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
garcon Posted April 30, 2008 Share Posted April 30, 2008 I don't remember saying 'a fully fit Liddell is somehow going to be the answer to our midfield and attacking problems' ... you sure you've got the right Liddell fan? I think he has a role to play, but I do think his role on the pitch next season will be more cameo than player of the year. What I don't understand is how so many fans have failed to see the quality he has ... seemingly for little reason other than the fact he doesn't feel the need to run around like a headless chicken for 90 minutes á la Warne. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bigfatjoe1 Posted April 30, 2008 Share Posted April 30, 2008 Just a thought on the great Liddell debate. I remember when Donachie and Vic Halom could no longer quite keep up with th epace. Both finished in the middle and both were superb for short spells. They had technical ability and vision. Does Liddell not fit the bill? A useful squad payer with better technical ability than many in this division. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
boundaryblue80 Posted April 30, 2008 Share Posted April 30, 2008 Just a thought on the great Liddell debate. I remember when Donachie and Vic Halom could no longer quite keep up with th epace. Both finished in the middle and both were superb for short spells. They had technical ability and vision. Does Liddell not fit the bill? A useful squad payer with better technical ability than many in this division. That was the bill which Shez had him fitting in preseason....until KK came and he threw it out the window. I've no probs with him staying...as long as it's not as a RW. Sadly, I just feel Shez will struggle to resist the temptation of putting him there and we'll do the same old dance next season. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikejh45 Posted April 30, 2008 Author Share Posted April 30, 2008 (edited) Based on the responses on this subject which has reached a bit of an impasse, here is the final result. 1) Make Liddell a first choice starter - 15% 2) Keep him as a squad member - 84% 3) Get rid - 1% But taking into account the Robert Mugabe method of counting and ratified by the Zimbabwean courts, the result is now: 1) & 2) - doesn't matter 3) - 106% Edited April 30, 2008 by mikejh45 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Macca Posted April 30, 2008 Share Posted April 30, 2008 Based on the responses on this subject which has reached a bit of an impasse, here is the final result. 1) Make Liddell a first choice starter - 15% 2) Keep him as a squad member - 84% 3) Get rid - 1% But taking into account the Robert Mugabe method of counting and ratified by the Zimbabwean courts, the result is now: 1) & 2) - doesn't matter 3) - 106% Shez Out! Mugabe In! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stitch_KTF Posted September 10, 2008 Share Posted September 10, 2008 Because it was a nothing game and he had more fitness than those coming back from injury who were on the bench. Anyway, it'll be refreshing to hear how else you defend him next season when he serves up the same rubbish. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
razza699 Posted September 10, 2008 Share Posted September 10, 2008 (edited) Liddle - Ah yes - Liddle. Not going to say much about Liddle except I saw nothing on Saturday that made me change my opinion. Other people have voiced their opinion on here over the weekend and would appear to back up my thoughts. RELEASE. KEEP THE FAITH Still feel like this ? spelt his name right yet? Edited September 10, 2008 by razza699 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
garcon Posted September 10, 2008 Share Posted September 10, 2008 I do love it when 'experts' are reminded of their pronouncements of months gone by. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
razza699 Posted September 10, 2008 Share Posted September 10, 2008 I do love it when 'experts' are reminded of their pronouncements of months gone by. No expert matey I just think its respectful to spell names correct. Obviously complicated names are fair enough but he isnt no Clyde Watisface is he? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
singe Posted September 10, 2008 Share Posted September 10, 2008 No expert matey I just think its respectful to spell names correct. Obviously complicated names are fair enough but he isnt no Clyde Watisface is he? I think he was referring to BB80 razza Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
garcon Posted September 10, 2008 Share Posted September 10, 2008 I was... razza you were doing the reminding which is fine by me. Let's see if BB80 and mikejh45 have an answer... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
futchers briefs Posted September 10, 2008 Share Posted September 10, 2008 I think he was referring to BB80 razza Is it not BEBE80? (Get the spelling right FFS ) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stitch_KTF Posted September 10, 2008 Share Posted September 10, 2008 Still feel like this ? spelt his name right yet? To be fair to Mike I noticed a post of his recently where he accepted Lidds has proved him wrong. Hopefully for everyones sake he can keep it up and it wont be me and his other supporters eating humble pie in a few months time! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikejh45 Posted September 11, 2008 Author Share Posted September 11, 2008 To be fair to Mike I noticed a post of his recently where he accepted Lidds has proved him wrong. Hopefully for everyones sake he can keep it up and it wont be me and his other supporters eating humble pie in a few months time! Listen, I've just got back from 10 day's holiday and the humble pie is still giving me bad guts and the trots. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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