Inspiral_Carpet Posted May 23, 2008 Share Posted May 23, 2008 You're KIDDING?? Cool. As. F**k. "It's Just like watching Breeze Hill" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Diego_Sideburns Posted May 23, 2008 Share Posted May 23, 2008 We actually have a really good relationship with United over the years. While we're waiting to hear philliggi's explanation of how he reached that conclusion, let me explain the opposite view. Big Joe was a mate of Taggart's but it didn't make for a good relationship between the clubs. On the pitch we had a series of injustices suffered at ManUre’s hands, not only by Latics, but also other clubs, who appear to be subject to rules which do not cover ManUre? I think it all started for Latics on 28th December 1975, and Ronnie Blair had just curled the ball round the goalkeeper and it hit the inner stanchion and bounced back out of the net. Referee Mr. T. D. Spencer waved play on. As it turned out, it didn’t matter because Latics beat United 1-0 anyway, but it was the beginning of a familiar pattern. Latics scored another ‘goal’ against United, which was not given by referee Joe Worrall, in the F.A. Cup semi-final replay at Maine Road, Manchester on 11th April 1990. TV replays showed clearly that Nicky Henry’s shot hit the crossbar and bounced over the line, before coming back into play. This time it did matter, because if the ‘goal’ had been allowed to stand, there would have been no need for extra time and Latics would have been in the F. A. Cup Final and it is generally considered that Alex Ferguson would probably have been sacked. Another error which altered the whole course of English football history. Off the field ManUre poached young striker David Brown from Latics. They would have got away with it, but they also poached a young player from Arsenal. So Latics were able to join with Arsenal in an appeal to the F.A. ManUre were found guilty and fined £50,000, which to the ‘biggest club in the world’ was the equivalent of you or I dropping a penny and not bothering to pick it up (although there is now a £75 fine for dropping ‘litter’). Nonetheless ManUre has held a grudge against Latics (and Arsenal) for having the audacity to instigate action against it and for showing the world how it disregards the rules. On another occasion Latics Reserves were due to play ManUre Reseves at BP in the Manc Senior Cup Final. Latics had marketed the event with a special programme, executive box packages and catering had arrangements laid on. Then, at very short notice, Taggart phoned Andy Ritchie to say he couldn’t raise a team. So did Latics win the trophy by default? Did they hell! The Manc F.A. rearranged the match to a new date suitable to Taggart, and Latics had to stand the cost of the aborted match. And they say we’re just jealous of them - jealous my arse! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Inspiral_Carpet Posted May 23, 2008 Share Posted May 23, 2008 While we're waiting to hear philliggi's explanation of how he reached that conclusion, let me explain the opposite view. Big Joe was a mate of Taggart's but it didn't make for a good relationship between the clubs. On the pitch we had a series of injustices suffered at ManUre’s hands, not only by Latics, but also other clubs, who appear to be subject to rules which do not cover ManUre? I think it all started for Latics on 28th December 1975, and Ronnie Blair had just curled the ball round the goalkeeper and it hit the inner stanchion and bounced back out of the net. Referee Mr. T. D. Spencer waved play on. As it turned out, it didn’t matter because Latics beat United 1-0 anyway, but it was the beginning of a familiar pattern. Latics scored another ‘goal’ against United, which was not given by referee Joe Worrall, in the F.A. Cup semi-final replay at Maine Road, Manchester on 11th April 1990. TV replays showed clearly that Nicky Henry’s shot hit the crossbar and bounced over the line, before coming back into play. This time it did matter, because if the ‘goal’ had been allowed to stand, there would have been no need for extra time and Latics would have been in the F. A. Cup Final and it is generally considered that Alex Ferguson would probably have been sacked. Another error which altered the whole course of English football history. Off the field ManUre poached young striker David Brown from Latics. They would have got away with it, but they also poached a young player from Arsenal. So Latics were able to join with Arsenal in an appeal to the F.A. ManUre were found guilty and fined £50,000, which to the ‘biggest club in the world’ was the equivalent of you or I dropping a penny and not bothering to pick it up (although there is now a £75 fine for dropping ‘litter’). Nonetheless ManUre has held a grudge against Latics (and Arsenal) for having the audacity to instigate action against it and for showing the world how it disregards the rules. On another occasion Latics Reserves were due to play ManUre Reseves at BP in the Manc Senior Cup Final. Latics had marketed the event with a special programme, executive box packages and catering had arrangements laid on. Then, at very short notice, Taggart phoned Andy Ritchie to say he couldn’t raise a team. So did Latics win the trophy by default? Did they hell! The Manc F.A. rearranged the match to a new date suitable to Taggart, and Latics had to stand the cost of the aborted match. And they say we’re just jealous of them - jealous my arse! Most of that is about refereeing decisions and The Manchester FA. The only thing relevant is the David Brown affair which was in a different era and different financial stratosphere. Since then, we've signed players on loan and permanently. It's hardly United's fault that both Cooper and Clegg did not fit in at Latics. In one case perhaps too much was expected from an inexperienced lad and in the other, we got a player who wasn't really interested in prolonging a career in football. Let's hope Lee will live up to expectation - I'm sure that he will. As you know Diego, Sir Alex was also personally very helpful to Latics in the fight against Oldham Council. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Diego_Sideburns Posted May 23, 2008 Share Posted May 23, 2008 Most of that is about refereeing decisions and The Manchester FA. The only thing relevant is the David Brown affair which was in a different era and different financial stratosphere. Since then, we've signed players on loan and permanently. It's hardly United's fault that both Cooper and Clegg did not fit in at Latics. In one case perhaps too much was expected from an inexperienced lad and in the other, we got a player who wasn't really interested in prolonging a career in football. Let's hope Lee will live up to expectation - I'm sure that he will. As you know Diego, Sir Alex was also personally very helpful to Latics in the fight against Oldham Council. The refereeing decisions explain the background to poor relations. "Different financial stratosphere"? - Rules are to be complied with! It's no coincidence that out of all the ManUre players loaned out to other clubs, Latics just happened to get the ones considered generally to be useless. The Manc Senior Cup fiasco is very relevant - couldn't raise a team for a reserve fixture from that massive squad! Your last sentence illustrates the ability to use influence, which proves my point about different rules for the powerful ManUre. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Inspiral_Carpet Posted May 23, 2008 Share Posted May 23, 2008 The refereeing decisions explain the background to poor relations. "Different financial stratosphere"? - Rules are to be complied with! The only way those refereeing decisions can "explain" the poor relations is between the Clubs is one way bitterness I'm afraid and certainly doesn't fit your argument. Agree about rule breaking. They didn't and got fined. There was significantly less money swilling around at that stage and so maybe £50k was seen as appropriate. Like most decisions by the FA though, it is baffling but like I have said, it is the only thing in your earlier post that I see as possibly relevant to the premise that United hate Latics. It's no coincidence that out of all the ManUre players loaned out to other clubs, Latics just happened to get the ones considered generally to be useless. Coincidence or ludicrous Conspiracy theory? The Manc Senior Cup fiasco is very relevant - couldn't raise a team for a reserve fixture from that massive squad! Would it have been relevant were the match against Blackburn Rovers or Peterborough United? Rather than it being part of this Conspiracy theory, perhaps there were real reasons behind the postponement - similar to the other "junior" fixtures that get switched on a regular basis. Your last sentence illustrates the ability to use influence, which proves my point about different rules for the powerful ManUre. Agree they are powerful. But your arguments are supposed to be in support of how they hate us. The only factual example here shows that Ferguson used his influence in support of Latics. Now I'm not claiming that they are normally helpful and I am sure in the past that they could have done more. I just don't buy into these conspiracy theories about refereeing decisions etc which affect every game played every week of the Season. Not just ones played between Latics and United. You clearly don't like the Greedy League which is fair enough. But like your recent rant claiming referees are biased towards top flight teams when playing "the minnows" (ie Portsmouth v Cardiff etc), I'm not sure where the substance is in your argument. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lags Posted May 23, 2008 Share Posted May 23, 2008 (edited) "As you know Diego, Sir Alex was also personally very helpful to Latics in the fight against Oldham Council." IC, I'd be interested to know exactly what Taggart did? And don't take that meaning I don't believe it.....genuinely interested as I don't know. Edited May 23, 2008 by Lags Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Inspiral_Carpet Posted May 23, 2008 Share Posted May 23, 2008 "As you know Diego, Sir Alex was also personally very helpful to Latics in the fight against Oldham Council." IC, I'd be interested to know exactly what Taggart did? And don't take that meaning I don't believe it.....genuinely interested as I don't know. If I remember correctly, he personally contacted certain Manchester United supporting members of Oldham Council to ask them to support Latics in their Planning Application. I'm sure that one of them was actually on the Planning Committee. I've recently deleted the thousand or so emails that I had from the Planning Campaign and so I can't remember who gave me the details about this surprising act of friendship from across Manchester but it would have been passed on by someone key at Latics or possibly within Oldham Political circles. I do remember that Diego was rather surprised though (and wanted to keep it quiet!) when I told him about it at the time! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DrLatics Posted May 23, 2008 Share Posted May 23, 2008 Please release a shirt, with "I Support Oldham Athletic, And Whoever Plays Man Utd" and some logo on it!!!!!!!!!! I think they would sell well! Agree/disagree Agree! The antimanu shop on the link below may be to your general liking! I've got a "Stand Up if you hate Man Utd" badge with and Oldham crest on it Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oafc_ok Posted May 23, 2008 Share Posted May 23, 2008 (edited) Agree! The antimanu shop on the link below may be to your general liking! I've got a "Stand Up if you hate Man Utd" badge with and Oldham crest on it There was also a set of four badges done with 'Keep Oldham Tidy' on. Two of the badges had a picture of a figure throwing the ManUre kit in the bin, on the other two it was the Citeh kit. Edited May 23, 2008 by oafc_ok Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MaskedOwl Posted May 23, 2008 Share Posted May 23, 2008 I think your right. I dont even buy the shirts any more. Think a grown man in a replica shirts looks a little sad really Is that a joke? I buy a latics shirt every season. Im proud to wear mine and feel like im giving a bit more to the club by purchasing one. I dont see why its sad? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest oa_exile Posted May 23, 2008 Share Posted May 23, 2008 It is, and I also love the hilarious sizes the always have in stock.... Went in last week to buy the home shorts and socks... they only had XXXL Shorts and Junior Socks in stock.... Brilliant. I would assume those shorts have the number 16 on them Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Diego_Sideburns Posted May 23, 2008 Share Posted May 23, 2008 If I remember correctly, he personally contacted certain Manchester United supporting members of Oldham Council to ask them to support Latics in their Planning Application. I'm sure that one of them was actually on the Planning Committee. I've recently deleted the thousand or so emails that I had from the Planning Campaign and so I can't remember who gave me the details about this surprising act of friendship from across Manchester but it would have been passed on by someone key at Latics or possibly within Oldham Political circles. I do remember that Diego was rather surprised though (and wanted to keep it quiet!) when I told him about it at the time! Whoaaaaah, hold on a bit! There is no wink on that last sentence so I assume you are serious in the implication that I wanted to keep an implied kind gesture quiet. The only reason I wanted to keep it quiet, and I'm amazed you've gone public, is that it could have been interpreted (and was interpreted by me in disgust at the time) that, despite all the emails and despite the passion exhibited through that march, it was an offer from Taggart to one of his club's supporters (possibly in contravention of the Local Government Code of Conduct) that was going to win the day, before the actual voting at the meeting took place. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Diego_Sideburns Posted May 23, 2008 Share Posted May 23, 2008 The only way those refereeing decisions can "explain" the poor relations is between the Clubs is one way bitterness I'm afraid and certainly doesn't fit your argument. Agree about rule breaking. They didn't and got fined. There was significantly less money swilling around at that stage and so maybe £50k was seen as appropriate. Like most decisions by the FA though, it is baffling but like I have said, it is the only thing in your earlier post that I see as possibly relevant to the premise that United hate Latics. Coincidence or ludicrous Conspiracy theory? Would it have been relevant were the match against Blackburn Rovers or Peterborough United? Rather than it being part of this Conspiracy theory, perhaps there were real reasons behind the postponement - similar to the other "junior" fixtures that get switched on a regular basis. Agree they are powerful. But your arguments are supposed to be in support of how they hate us. The only factual example here shows that Ferguson used his influence in support of Latics. Now I'm not claiming that they are normally helpful and I am sure in the past that they could have done more. I just don't buy into these conspiracy theories about refereeing decisions etc which affect every game played every week of the Season. Not just ones played between Latics and United. You clearly don't like the Greedy League which is fair enough. But like your recent rant claiming referees are biased towards top flight teams when playing "the minnows" (ie Portsmouth v Cardiff etc), I'm not sure where the substance is in your argument. Your simplification of the Manc Senior Cup fiasco is ridiculous. Even the rarely wrong Chron came out at the time in disgust at ManUre's treatment of Latics. If the biggest club in the world had any decency at the time, it would have compensated Latics for the financial loss. Obviously, without proof, conspiracy theories are easily challenged, but I await examples of how Football League clubs have benefitted from dubious decisions on the field when playing against the officials' employers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Inspiral_Carpet Posted May 23, 2008 Share Posted May 23, 2008 Whoaaaaah, hold on a bit! There is no wink on that last sentence so I assume you are serious in the implication that I wanted to keep an implied kind gesture quiet. The only reason I wanted to keep it quiet, and I'm amazed you've gone public, is that it could have been interpreted (and was interpreted by me in disgust at the time) that, despite all the emails and despite the passion exhibited through that march, it was an offer from Taggart to one of his club's supporters (possibly in contravention of the Local Government Code of Conduct) that was going to win the day, before the actual voting at the meeting took place. There should have been a wink Diego so I apologise. You were specific about keeping it quiet from one person and one person alone if I remember and that is what I was alluding. Like other stuff at the time while the follow-up Planning Meeting was still in the Diary, it was inappropriate to post such activity on a Public Forum and today is the first time I have mentioned it. I really can't understand the rest of the stuff though. Ferguson was adding to the lobbying which is exactly what the rest of us were doing at the time either through letter-writing or public shows of injustice like the March. There is no implication of wrong doing or coersion as it was all about providing salient facts and support for the plans and I have (or rather had) thousands of emails doing just that. Just because you don't like Manchester United shouldn't make what Ferguson did wrong but clearly you do as you found his intervention "disgusting". If he was acting improperly, then so were we all in trying to influence the Councillors to change their mind. As is a matter of public record, they made a different decision second time around because they were satisfied that the amended plans and further information provided warranted a different result in their vote. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt Posted May 23, 2008 Share Posted May 23, 2008 It's no coincidence that out of all the ManUre players loaned out to other clubs, Latics just happened to get the ones considered generally to be useless. They're hardly going to let us look after anyone half decent. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Diego_Sideburns Posted May 23, 2008 Share Posted May 23, 2008 There should have been a wink Diego so I apologise. You were specific about keeping it quiet from one person and one person alone if I remember and that is what I was alluding. Like other stuff at the time while the follow-up Planning Meeting was still in the Diary, it was inappropriate to post such activity on a Public Forum and today is the first time I have mentioned it. I really can't understand the rest of the stuff though. Ferguson was adding to the lobbying which is exactly what the rest of us were doing at the time either through letter-writing or public shows of injustice like the March. There is no implication of wrong doing or coersion as it was all about providing salient facts and support for the plans and I have (or rather had) thousands of emails doing just that. Just because you don't like Manchester United shouldn't make what Ferguson did wrong but clearly you do as you found his intervention "disgusting". If he was acting improperly, then so were we all in trying to influence the Councillors to change their mind. As is a matter of public record, they made a different decision second time around because they were satisfied that the amended plans and further information provided warranted a different result in their vote. I can assure readers that my finding his intervention "disgusting" was not because I don't like ManUre's bending of rules. It was my reaction to the details of the intervention, which the laws of libel prevent me from discussing here. I had not told the one person but he'll have read it now. I appreciate that the Councillors made a different decision based on amended plans and further information, but what we're talking about was claimed at the time to be the factor to remove doubt about the decision, before we knew so many Councillors were to change their minds. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Diego_Sideburns Posted May 23, 2008 Share Posted May 23, 2008 They're hardly going to let us look after anyone half decent. The point is that they let plenty of other clubs have players who were more than half decent. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Inspiral_Carpet Posted May 23, 2008 Share Posted May 23, 2008 I can assure readers that my finding his intervention "disgusting" was not because I don't like ManUre's bending of rules. It was my reaction to the details of the intervention, which the laws of libel prevent me from discussing here. I had not told the one person but he'll have read it now. I appreciate that the Councillors made a different decision based on amended plans and further information, but what we're talking about was claimed at the time to be the factor to remove doubt about the decision, before we knew so many Councillors were to change their minds. He did what we all did Diego. You, me; The Chaplain; Alan Hardy; Phil Woollas; Alex Ferguson and thousands of Latics and non-Latics fans. He wrote to the Councillors asking them to look again at the Plans and support Oldham Athletic. That's what lobbying is all about. It seems you have interpreted it to mean he was doing something sinister and that is quite wrong. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Diego_Sideburns Posted May 23, 2008 Share Posted May 23, 2008 He did what we all did Diego. You, me; The Chaplain; Alan Hardy; Phil Woollas; Alex Ferguson and thousands of Latics and non-Latics fans. He wrote to the Councillors asking them to look again at the Plans and support Oldham Athletic. That's what lobbying is all about. It seems you have interpreted it to mean he was doing something sinister and that is quite wrong. If you had put it to me at the time in the words used in the second sentence of your first paragraph, I would have welcomed the additional help for the cause. In fact there would have been no reason not to broadcast that he was supporting the cause, just as we did in respect of Phil Woollas. If my interpretation of your explanation of his "support" was wrong, you should have corrected me when I expressed my disgust at the time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt Posted May 23, 2008 Share Posted May 23, 2008 The point is that they let plenty of other clubs have players who were more than half decent. Recently, Latics have broken anything they got to look after. So it's not entirely suprising that we haven't received the cream of the crop. TBH I've always thought that at coaching staff level and above, we've had a decent relationship with our more affluent neighbours. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RoytonBlueLad Posted May 23, 2008 Share Posted May 23, 2008 Recently, Latics have broken anything they got to look after. Who have we broken? Just interested Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Inspiral_Carpet Posted May 23, 2008 Share Posted May 23, 2008 Who have we broken? Just interested The much touted "drinking culture" turned Kilkenny to alcohol. Poor coaching techniques ruined the highly promising Lord Kangana. The Boundary Park boo boys forced Ben Turner to see red after 3 minutes. And Ryan Bertrand definitely looked like he was going to get "broken in" after the Trust Chritmas Dinner. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt Posted May 23, 2008 Share Posted May 23, 2008 Who have we broken? Just interested Recent players loaned in: Jason Jarrett Dave Livermore Jordan Robertson All had bits snapped off Plus we've had contracted players out injured long term, and the physio problem didn't help. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RoytonBlueLad Posted May 23, 2008 Share Posted May 23, 2008 (edited) The much touted "drinking culture" turned Kilkenny to alcohol. Poor coaching techniques ruined the highly promising Lord Kangana. The Boundary Park boo boys forced Ben Turner to see red after 3 minutes. And Ryan Bertrand definitely looked like he was going to get "broken in" after the Trust Chritmas Dinner. Kilkenny was living in Royton. Happens to all of us Lordy, Lordy, Lordy. I don't think we've done too badly. Crofty never had the stamina for 90 minutes hence his move. Bertrand did well with us and wanted to stay but for Chelsea's intervention and deal breaking. Kilkenny (I know some don't agree) but we brought him in/he asked to join and he's not done too bad. Constantine seemed very keen. Looking back at the Ernie squad the other week and it didn't look so bad. If you come to Latics and want to make something of yourself, you'll inevitably be picked up or continue a career at a decent standard with us or another club. We aren't too bad Ah Rummy, I thought you meant broken as in we'd destroyed all confidence they had and they'd returned to their clubs as quivering wrecks. Well maybe one or two.... Edited May 23, 2008 by RoytonBlueLad Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stitch_KTF Posted May 23, 2008 Share Posted May 23, 2008 Please release a shirt, with "I Support Oldham Athletic, And Whoever Plays Man Utd" and some logo on it!!!!!!!!!! I think they would sell well! Agree/disagree How about this?? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.